Author Topic: How would you name Shivan-infested star systems?  (Read 3018 times)

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Re: How would you name Shivan-infested star systems?
Who knows. We need qualified quantum physicist.

Just ask a Shivan :p

Wouldn't consulting the FS Reference bible help there? I don't think :v-old: had something particular deep in mind.

 

Offline Su-tehp

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Re: How would you name Shivan-infested star systems?
Nyctaeus, if you can find that quote where the Terrans were surprised that the first jump node they discovered  led to Delta Serpentis rather than Alpha Centauri, let me know where it is so I can see it for myself. I've never heard of anything like that and want to confirm its canonicity for myself.

That said, I'd like to refocus the discussion on the original topic, namely how the GTVA would name newly discovered star systems that haven't been explored for the simple reason that they're too far away from our own galaxy to have been actually observed yet. The nature of subspace can be discussed in another thread if anyone here wishes to create a thread for it.

I like Nightmare's suggestion that stars can be given original names if they're in a different galaxy. I also like 0rph3u5' suggestion about a catabasis-themed list, which seems particularly appropriate for a taskforce deliberately going into hostile territory, especially when the enemy are named "the Destroyers." The story of FS1 and FS2 is about the Terrans and the Vasudans fighting on the defensive, trying to hold the line against the Shivans and only barely succeeding at great cost. Devil and the Deep Blue involves the GTVA taking the risk of willfully descending into hell/the underworld because the alternative of doing nothing is far worse in the long run. Maybe naming the star systems in Shivan space after the different underworlds in human mythology might not be great for morale, but then again, the GTVA is not going to be naming those places with names like "Happy Fun Sunshine Land."

Nyctaeus mentioning that by 2367, we'll (likely) have advanced enough in astronomy and AI to be able to categorize all stars in the known universe so the Shivan star systems will have traditional names is intriguing. Then again, I don't want to use Bayer's Greek letter system, nor the Flamsteed numbers, nor even the IAU List of Star Names. The reason for this is that using these naming conventions feels too "familiar" for a descent into the unknown/"underworld." It sort of ruins the mood if you go into unexplored enemy territory and you see and recognize recognizable landmarks (or the stellar equivalent, anyway) such as stars that have already been discovered, categorized and named centuries before.

Therefore, it makes more sense for the GTVA taskforce to name these new star systems as they go; the sense of menace one gets from having to maneuver away from the enemy while in hostile (as well as unexplored) territory won't be diminished if the nearby stars are so unfamiliar as to not even have names.

I'm basically thinking of The Hero's Journey: DatDB is nothing less than a story of the GTVA knowingly descending into the Abyss to stop the Shivans and save their homes. Granted, they tried to do that in FS2, only to find out just how outclassed they were. Brute force with the Colossus didn't work, so this time the GTVA has no choice but to descend into the Abyss again and rely on guile instead.
REPUBLICANO FACTIO DELENDA EST

Creator of the Devil and the Deep Blue campaign - Current Story Editor of the Exile campaign

"Let my people handle this, we're trained professionals. Well, we're semi-trained, quasi-professionals, at any rate." --Roy Greenhilt,
The Order of the Stick

"Let´s face it, we Freespace players may not be the most sophisticated of gaming freaks, but we do know enough to recognize a heap of steaming crap when it´s right in front of us."
--Su-tehp, while posting on the DatDB internal forum

"The meaning of life is that in the end you always get screwed."
--The Catch 42 Expression, The Lost Fleet: Beyond the Frontier: Steadfast

 

Offline DefCynodont119

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Re: How would you name Shivan-infested star systems?
A lot of people here seem unaware that in real life, stars have many different accepted names depending on context and/or catalogs-

EG:

Alpha Centauri -is- Toliman -is- Bungula -is- Rigel Kentaurus -is- Gliese 559


and:


Antares -is- Alpha Scorpii -is- ADS10074 -is- WDS-16294-2626


and it gets better:


Capella -is- Alhajoth -is- Hokulei -is- Alpha Aurigae -is- 13-Aurigae -is- ADS3831 -is- Gliese194 -is- GJ-194 -is- HR-1708


here's one more:


Epsilon Pegasi -is- Enif (RE: Enif Station) -is- 8-Pegasi -is- HIP107315 -is- HD-206778



So basically there is nothing stopping you from having cataloged stars and giving them a new name as they are explored.

EDIT: the GTA/GTVA could have made more catalogs too, Delta Serpentis could be marked down as "SJN-01" (subspace jump node 1) or something.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2020, 09:04:40 pm by DefCynodont119 »
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Re: How would you name Shivan-infested star systems?
Well if the goal is to have DatDB imitate human mythology you could choose one, like those of the Maya and name the systems after them.

One way or another, having places named immediatly makes them familiar, even if you've never been there before. Of course it's highly reasonable that in 2367 you have a catalogue of stars so once you arrive in Andromeda so you could just say "oh we arrived in XYZ" but it makes everything rather known when it supposed to be a explorer campaign.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2020, 09:30:55 pm by Nightmare »

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: How would you name Shivan-infested star systems?

 

Offline Kiloku

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Re: How would you name Shivan-infested star systems?
If you are going for a catabasis-theme, wikipedia has a handy list for you:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underworld

I would take that and expand upon it. In many of these cultures, their version of the underworld has regions/sections/layers/houses etc.

The Greek underworld has a few named rivers, at least two named fields (Elysium and Asphodel), the Tartarus (which I see you're already using). 
Dante's Inferno has the Nine Circles of Hell, and while I haven't read it, I assume there are plenty of named places in each of the Nine Circles. 
Going by the wiki list, Islam and Judaism have plenty of names for hell-related places too.
Potato!

 
Re: How would you name Shivan-infested star systems?
From "Behind Enemy Lines"

 
Re: How would you name Shivan-infested star systems?
Requiescat in pace

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: How would you name Shivan-infested star systems?
Bungula!

 
Re: How would you name Shivan-infested star systems?

 

Offline Su-tehp

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Re: How would you name Shivan-infested star systems?
I remember when "Behind Enemy Lines" was first announced and I first saw this map. I remember how the guy who announced it did it at the behest of his son who, when finding out that Interplay and V went their separate ways and Freespace 3 was never going to get made, basically said, "Well, why don't we finish it, Dad?" D'awww.

Not to mention that this map served as inspiration for my map(s) of DatDB.
REPUBLICANO FACTIO DELENDA EST

Creator of the Devil and the Deep Blue campaign - Current Story Editor of the Exile campaign

"Let my people handle this, we're trained professionals. Well, we're semi-trained, quasi-professionals, at any rate." --Roy Greenhilt,
The Order of the Stick

"Let´s face it, we Freespace players may not be the most sophisticated of gaming freaks, but we do know enough to recognize a heap of steaming crap when it´s right in front of us."
--Su-tehp, while posting on the DatDB internal forum

"The meaning of life is that in the end you always get screwed."
--The Catch 42 Expression, The Lost Fleet: Beyond the Frontier: Steadfast

 
Re: How would you name Shivan-infested star systems?
Yeah, while bumping into an really old thread I realized I probably didn't tell you anything new: https://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=367.msg6636#msg6636

 

Offline SL1

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Re: How would you name Shivan-infested star systems?
D&D has the names of the Nine Hells, plus many varieties of demons.

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Nine_Hells
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Baatezu#Types_of_Baatezu
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Tanar%27ri#Types_of_Tanar.27ri

Personally, I don't care too much about following realistic conventions for system-naming. It's more important to me that it makes thematic sense or just sounds cool.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2020, 07:32:41 pm by SL1 »

 

Offline Su-tehp

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Re: How would you name Shivan-infested star systems?
D&D has the names of the Nine Hells, plus many varieties of demons.

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Nine_Hells
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Baatezu#Types_of_Baatezu
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Tanar%27ri#Types_of_Tanar.27ri

Personally, I don't care too much about following realistic conventions for system-naming. It's more important to me that it makes thematic sense or just sounds cool.

There is that, certainly. With these D&D references, I'm thinking I should look up related references in Pathfinder as well. For myself, I think I like the demonology references from FS2 better than the Hindu names from FS1. I think they make the Shivans look a lot more diabolical...but then the Shivans' very name conjures Hindu themes from Shiva herself. I guess it's just personal preference.
REPUBLICANO FACTIO DELENDA EST

Creator of the Devil and the Deep Blue campaign - Current Story Editor of the Exile campaign

"Let my people handle this, we're trained professionals. Well, we're semi-trained, quasi-professionals, at any rate." --Roy Greenhilt,
The Order of the Stick

"Let´s face it, we Freespace players may not be the most sophisticated of gaming freaks, but we do know enough to recognize a heap of steaming crap when it´s right in front of us."
--Su-tehp, while posting on the DatDB internal forum

"The meaning of life is that in the end you always get screwed."
--The Catch 42 Expression, The Lost Fleet: Beyond the Frontier: Steadfast

 

Offline DefCynodont119

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Re: How would you name Shivan-infested star systems?
D&D has the names of the Nine Hells, plus many varieties of demons.

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Nine_Hells
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Baatezu#Types_of_Baatezu
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Tanar%27ri#Types_of_Tanar.27ri


Oh those are neat, maybe some lovecraftain names (like what was done in Derelict) could work?



Somewhat off topic but I just wanted to go on quick a tangent here:

Personally, I don't care too much about following realistic conventions for system-naming. It's more important to me that it makes thematic sense or just sounds cool.

There aren't any conventions for system-naming as far as I know, the conventions are only for the catalog designations.


What you call a Star depends on context:

The Henry Draper catalog (HD-Number and HDE-Number) lists stars by spectroscopic classification,
and the Bayer designation (Greek letter/number, Constellation) tells you the apparent brightness and where in the sky the star is. .


You can have both, A star's formal name can be anything, You could even world-build new catalog systems and it will be just as realistic, go wild.
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