[Mobius]

They are not.
the Wiki should not focus on campaign in the ships section. It's there to give information on various ships. In which campaigns it features can be mentioned within the specific description. It doesn't need any extra markers or categories.

And what if a ship has a done description and background? What are the chances they will be compatible with MY campaign? Assuming I even want to keep the description, instead of writing my own.

The Mod database is gonna be browsed mostly by the modders and campaign makers. And even if I were not a campaign maker/modder, I'd hate any useless divisions. Information databases should be kept as simple as possible.

As for the modder approach to the database, people generally look for ships that FIT their story or their idea. Weather it has been used before or not is unlikely to affect their decisions, especially since being a campaign is no guarantee of quality or good design.
Searching for ships for you campaign is thus a visual job, where the one who searches will go trough as many craft as he can to find those he deems best. introducing different divisions and categories just out of some fit is bad, bad decision.

The Wiki is not a shop where people can find the ships they want to use in custom campaigns - the main purpose is to provide informations about the original FreeSpace universe and fan-created universes. A ship that has never appeared in a campaign or mod has little importance simply because...there's nothing to say about it other than its potential!

[Akalabeth Angel]

The Wiki is not a shop where people can find the ships they want to use in custom campaigns - the main purpose is to provide informations about the original FreeSpace universe and fan-created universes. A ship that has never appeared in a campaign or mod has little importance simply because...there's nothing to say about it other than its potential!

The FreeSpace Wiki is designed to be a comprehensive source of data for the FreeSpace series of games, including information about the games themselves, the FreeSpace universe, and community activities such as modding and the Source Code Project. (Emphasis mine, From the Front Page)

       Gee, it sure would be nice if people who think they know the true purpose of the Wiki in this universe actually read the damn thing once in a while. And if the main purpose of the Wiki is to provide information about Freespace or Fan Created universes. Then can someone please delete:

Modding Portal
FRED
Freespace Source Code Project section

       Because clearly, all of these sections are meant to help MODDERS create new campaigns. And as such, have absolutely no reason to be on the Wiki because all people who visit the Wiki care about, is reading about Freespace 2 and new campaigns.



       You know something? I've visited the Wiki a bunch of times, and I've almost never gone to the Campaign section. Because quite frankly, I don't give a damn. If I care about a campaign, I'd play it. Not read about it on the Wiki. The only reason I visit the campaign section is to find a list of campaigns I haven't played yet. Or campaigns still in development. Not read up on ones I already know about or have played.

[Mobius]

I reply with this:

The FreeSpace Wiki is designed to be a comprehensive source of data for the FreeSpace series of games, including information about the games themselves, the FreeSpace universe, and community activities such as modding and the Source Code Project. (Emphasis mine, From the Front Page)

Which points out something that goes well beyond.

[Akalabeth Angel]

I reply with this:

The FreeSpace Wiki is designed to be a comprehensive source of data for the FreeSpace series of games, including information about the games themselves, the FreeSpace universe, and community activities such as modding and the Source Code Project. (Emphasis mine, From the Front Page)

Which points out something that goes well beyond.

You're trying to say what exactly?

[General Battuta]

This is the most pointless debate I have seen in the past while. There's no reason you can't all have your way.

Why not make a full database of all custom ships (even those that have appeared in campaigns), but mark the appearing ships with a badge, small banner, or line of text?

[NGTM-1R]

Because Trashman doesn't appear amenable to that.

[Spicious]

Because Trashman doesn't appear amenable to that.

Actually, I think the only people with a problem with that are Mobius and possibly you.

[NGTM-1R]

Actually, I think the only people with a problem with that are Mobius and possibly you.

Considering I already threw my support into a method of differentiating, and he argued against me, I must assume he's against it and I am not.

[Akalabeth Angel]

Actually, I think the only people with a problem with that are Mobius and possibly you.

Considering I already threw my support into a method of differentiating, and he argued against me, I must assume he's against it and I am not.

Considering that he was arguing in reply to a post that pre-dated your shift in mentality I think that is not the case at all and I'm not sure why you would assume otherwise. Though it's not clear to me either why Trashman is arguing the point when it's been ceded later on, unless he didn't read the entire thread or unless he REALLY wanted to reply.

Either way, whatever. Everyone carry on.

[Mobius]

I reply with this:

The FreeSpace Wiki is designed to be a comprehensive source of data for the FreeSpace series of games, including information about the games themselves, the FreeSpace universe, and community activities such as modding and the Source Code Project. (Emphasis mine, From the Front Page)

Which points out something that goes well beyond.

You're trying to say what exactly?

Simple: you evidenced only a part of that description and focused on the modding aspect. I marked other words as well, what does "...and community activities such as modding..." suggest you? Isn't that a clear reference to providing info about campaigns, plots, etc. etc.?

[Akalabeth Angel]

Simple: you evidenced only a part of that description and focused on the modding aspect. I marked other words as well, what does "...and community activities such as modding..." suggest you? Isn't that a clear reference to providing info about campaigns, plots, etc. etc.?

       No it's not. Modding is a broad category which includes all forms of modifying the game. Be they FREDDing, modelling, table edits, effects, interface, music, texturing, etcetera.

       Somehow you read Modding = campaigns. Creating a campaign is modding, but modding is NOT necessarily creating a campaign. If the person who wrote the main page, intended to limit it to campaigns. They would have said so. Clearly the mandate of the Wiki is to provide information on all types of modding whether they're presented on their own, or in a package. And when you get down to it, a campaign, is simply a pack of missions. In the same way that Strattcom's fleet, for example, is a pack of ships.

      So when it says "community activies such as modding" I think "Wow, how are people changing this game? Are they adding new ships? Creating new effects? Adding new music? Creating new stories for me to play? Etcetera and so on." For example, If ships, which aren't included in a campaign are of no interest to anyone, then Inferno probably have a LOT less ships since 1/4 - 1/2 of the ships in INF R1 seem to be borrowed from other defunct mods which died a quiet death (ie Over the Top). It's a good thing that Woomeister, who is no doubt a player AND a modder, took interest in those ships and essentially preserved them in his own story which has endured over the years (assumign that INFR1 is his creation, which I think it is but I could be dead wrong. Either way, doesn't change the point).
       

[Mobius]

That's what I said. Saying "community activities" is generalizing. If the Wiki should provide info about community activities then creating a page about a ship used in a mod with no reference to the mod itself doesn't fit well with the Wiki's purposes.

Inferno took many ships from many sources and many of them have been modified. In OTT there was an installation that, now improved, took the role of "GTI Aristotle" in INFA.

If no one else uses that installation then the Aristotle will be remembered as an Inferno installation. Its page should mention the OTT origins but in terms of community usage that installation is an INF one.

By the way, did you know that Woomeister was an OTT team member?

[Akalabeth Angel]

That's what I said. Saying "community activities" is generalizing. If the Wiki should provide info about community activities then creating a page about a ship used in a mod with no reference to the mod itself doesn't fit well with the Wiki's purposes.

      What ship on the Wiki doesn't have a reference to the Mod it's used in? Every ship I added, I either put the description from the first place I found it.  And/or for the download links I included the first major campaign it was featured in (some have multiple downloads). The references are there, perhaps not as this thread has agreed to, but they're there. For all of the ships I added, I didn't bother with that little blurb above the table of contents because I quite honestly didn't see the point of it. And most of the ships on the Wiki right now were added by me, or Trashman (or some fan or Trashman), since most of what was there when I first started adding stuff was just Trashman's ships and a few others.

      I mean some pages have tech description, veteran comments, developer's comments (which quite honestly I think should be omitted unless the developer himself/herself has something to say), etcetera and so on. How many ways does one have to talk about the same ship? Like for example:

GTF Odyssey (fake ship)
Intro blurb: This is a replacement for the Myrmidon. It's speedy with a lower profile.
Tech description: "The GTF Odyssey was introduced to replace the Myrmidon in 2290"
Developer's comments: I thought the Myrm was ugly, and I didn't like the Helios, so I made a replacement.
Veteran Comments: This flies a lot like the Myrmidon, but with a narrow profile and a few less missiles but 8 gunpoints woo hoo!

     And then, congratulations, the same page says the same thing four times. Of course, there isn't anything comparable right now. But the potential exists. I suppose in theory the intro's supposed to be a brief rundown, the tech is the fluff, the developer is the behind the scenes and the veteran is the gameplay 3rd person perspective on a mod but who knows if all that's necessary.


     And yeah I knew Woo was OTT. I found that in my digging for ships.



     But anyway, one day soon I'll get the urge to start uploading some more stuff.

[Mobius]

We're derailing here, anyway...

The first subject was the appeal of ship pages(and why not, even some articles) and the fact that we don't need three tags, at the same time, pointing out the content of a page as non-canon.

The problem came with categories. If a ship belongs to many categories like INF and custom made ships there will be one non-canon tag for each category. That's the problem.

[Wanderer]

Adding ship to a category wont automatically add a non-canon tag to the ship. If the categories are assigned via templates (the {{something}} ) in wiki then there might possibly be a need for a new template, like 'Inferno Ships'. Or then the page could be added to inferno category just via the normal categorizing method ( [[category:nameofthecategory]] )

[TrashMan]

Because Trashman doesn't appear amenable to that.

No, I said mentioning that was fine in the ships description page. Some ships already have that info.