Hard Light Productions Forums
Hosted Projects - Standalone => The Babylon Project => Topic started by: Niroborn on December 23, 2009, 01:56:56 am
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Lets take some simple situation for example. Battlecrab and G'Quan facing each other. Then they ordered to atack each other.
And what does battlecrab do? It approaching the narn capship, fires couple of times and then turning and flying around G'Quan while it shooting battlecrab down.
Is there some way to handle this? I think battlecrab shouldn't turn, just hang in front of the target and shoot continuously. How to arrange this without using way points and pre-programmed behavior?
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You should never order caps to attack each other. The FS2_Open engine AI wasn't set up for that. What you need to do is script cap ship battles using waypoints.
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Meaning the comparision of some FS2 battles to space opera is quite fitting, as you have to literally orchestrate the individual steps the ships take, especially if you want it to look epic and fantastic.
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That's pretty sad :(
I mean if I'll script everything out then battle will be always all the same. What I want is unknown outcome... Is it possible anyway?
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No, not really. The entire premise behind the capship AI is that capital ships in FreeSpace (and, by extension, TBP) are pieces of background scenery to prettify a mission. Thus the need for the mission designer to script the battles to make them look OK.
A missions' outcome should never be left to pure chance. It should be either inevitable, or dependant on the players' skill.
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Well even with the ships doing waypoints and a scripted battle it doesn't mean the outcome will always be the same. If weapons are free then they may fire and miss or a subsystem may be destroyed one time but not the next.
You can also do things like have more then one waypoint path the ship can follow and determined it randomly at ship arrival. Heck even 2 or more different caps arriving at different locations determined randomly at start.
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Well, it's not so bad after all :)
Thanks for clarify things!
BTW can you advise topic for fredding questions?
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FRED board found here: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?board=89.0
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FRED board found here: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?board=89.0
Thanks. It seems fred's going to be my new hobby.
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It is possible to make intelligent capships in FS, they can be issued attack orders to make battle more dynamic, as it's unpredictable how ships will turn, so player will have to attack different turrets on each attempt and switch targets to ensure friendly victory.
The Battlecrabs have just one obvious problem. They have "capital" ship type set, which causes them to attempt broadside attack instead of head-on.
This can be changed, but requires some work and modding skills.
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It is possible to make intelligent capships in FS, they can be issued attack orders to make battle more dynamic, as it's unpredictable how ships will turn, so player will have to attack different turrets on each attempt and switch targets to ensure friendly victory.
The Battlecrabs have just one obvious problem. They have "capital" ship type set, which causes them to attempt broadside attack instead of head-on.
This can be changed, but requires some work and some modding skills.
Agree, Vorlon and Shadow vessels more like fighters then capships no matter the size. I suppose there is no ease way to turn the battlecrab into fighter.
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There is a way to do it, it requires a table change, but it's simeple.
It may cause the Battlecrab to act awkwardly though.
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If you do this, the heavy beams of the G'Quan (or something) will not attack the First Ones Capships.
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That's another problem, if you will set a capship as fighter, it would not be attacked by anti-capship beams and cannons.
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Understood. I suppose FS2 engine wasn't designed for that kind of a ship like battlecrabs.
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I have one related question: I've noticed that capships which have many turrets (don't mean beam turrets) actually didn't use them at full rate. I mean the turrets don't fire like hell on closest target until the energy went out, instead they fire from time to time in a very lazy manner. Like there is no danger around. The only chance to get shot by turrets is flying around all alone, because when you fly in wing it's almost no chance they hit you. In that way these turrets literally useless no matter the quantity.
How to made them fire constantly, like in episodes where B5 defense greed activated.
I suppose it's the same stupidity like in case with shadow battlecrabs.
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Turret fire rate is defined by 3 things:
1) The weapon refire rate of the weapon mounted on the turret, defined in weapons.tbl
2) The AI setting of the turret (NOT the ship, but the turret itself!)
3) The difficulty setting (Capship weapons will fire more often and more accurately the higher the difficulty is)
EDIT: This was slightly wrong, turrets use the same AI class as the ship
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I have one related question: I've noticed that capships which have many turrets (don't mean beam turrets) actually didn't use them at full rate. I mean the turrets don't fire like hell on closest target until the energy went out, instead they fire from time to time in a very lazy manner. Like there is no danger around. The only chance to get shot by turrets is flying around all alone, because when you fly in wing it's almost no chance they hit you. In that way these turrets literally useless no matter the quantity.
How to made them fire constantly, like in episodes where B5 defense greed activated.
I suppose it's the same stupidity like in case with shadow battlecrabs.
The Fury AI will fix this.
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Turret fire rate is defined by 3 things:
1) The weapon refire rate of the weapon mounted on the turret, defined in weapons.tbl
2) The AI setting of the turret (NOT the ship, but the turret itself!)
3) The difficulty setting (Capship weapons will fire more often and more accurately the higher the difficulty is)
EDIT: This was slightly wrong, turrets use the same AI class as the ship
I'm always playing on insane and AI is set to perfect. Still fire intensity is not high enough.
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Again, you need to use a custom AI profile like the Fury AI. Warships normally have a random turret refire delay and a cap on the number of turrets they can fire at once.
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Then take a look at this (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=66477.0). It's the Fury AI General B mentioned above.
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The Fury AI will fix this.
What do you mean exactly? I don't get it :confused:
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Fury, one of the Admins here and generally awesome person, created an ai_profile/ai.tbl combination that makes the AI much more capable than the standard version. I've linked to the topic in question in my post above this one.
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Fury, one of the Admins here and generally awesome person, created an ai_profile/ai.tbl combination that makes the AI much more capable than the standard version. I've linked to the topic in question in my post above this one.
Oh, just saw. Thank you.
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Note that in order to use it you will need a recent Knightly build. Get them here (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?board=173.0).
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I've tried new AI. When launching the game (with the latest dev build) appears warning message that there are more than 30 errors but main menu works, when try to launch mission game crushes.
Oh, hell, I'm gonna use 3.6.9 release.
Is there another way to modify turret behavior that will work with 3.6.9, instead of using buggy dev builds? I assume that they are not buggy at all and it's my system that is weird, but that fact doesn't change the situation.
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It's not a bug with the build. The build is detecting problems with your mod.
3.6.9 release is hopelessly out of date; at least use 3.6.10 release, preferably a 3.6.11 build since they fix a lot of problems.
Post a debug log. The AI is not causing the errors.
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It's not a bug with the build. The build is detecting problems with your mod.
3.6.9 release is hopelessly out of date; at least use 3.6.10 release, preferably a 3.6.11 build since they fix a lot of problems.
Post a debug log. The AI is not causing the errors.
I didn't create mod, I've just created simple test mission with fred included in latest dev build package and Fury's AI.
For unknown reason 3.6.9 is the only stable build on my system. 3.6.10 and 3.6.11 cause lags and hangs. As I've noted before it is obviously my system which is responsible for that not build, since there are not many bug reports, but nevertheless I'm tired reinstalling the game.
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Well, that sucks.
The reason you are getting those errors is that TBP left the house in a somewhat unpolished state, Zathras fixes most, if not all of those. Also, 3.6.11 and 3.6.10 are much more strict in their error-checking than 3.6.9 was.
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Well, I've figured out what was causing all that lags and hangs. I've used step by step feature activation and it's environment maps, should I turn them off everything goes fine.
Now I'm a happy Zathras user :)
Next I'll try 3.6.11 builds.
EDIT: It appears that not only env mapping causes lags, there are other flags to:
-disable vert sinc
-cache bitmaps between missions
-enebles 3d radar
Turning any of these on cause small or big lags depending on feature.
The question is why they did not in 3.6.9?
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strange. I remember having some lags ingame with 3.6.9 and everything was fixed when we moved to .10 :confused: