Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => FS2 Open Coding - The Source Code Project (SCP) => Topic started by: Krackers87 on April 06, 2004, 11:11:26 pm
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Just some new 32 bits i decided to put together.
Download all of my glows here:
http://www.hades-combine.com/my-mods/beam-glows.zip
Blu/White Beam Glow:
(http://hades-combine.com/Upload/temp/blu-white1.jpg)
(http://hades-combine.com/Upload/temp/blu-white2.jpg)
(http://hades-combine.com/Upload/temp/baemglow-white-blu.jpg)
Purp Star Beam Glow:
(http://hades-combine.com/Upload/temp/purp.jpg)
(http://hades-combine.com/Upload/temp/purp2.jpg)
(http://hades-combine.com/Upload/temp/purp1.jpg)
Orange Beam Glow ( would look better on a vasudan):
(http://hades-combine.com/Upload/temp/orangeo.jpg)
(http://hades-combine.com/Upload/temp/orangeo1.jpg)
(http://hades-combine.com/Upload/temp/orangeo2.jpg)
More to come
Part 2 (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,22713.msg446670.html#msg446670)
Part 3 (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,22713.msg446938.html#msg446938)
Part 4 (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,22713.msg447751.html#msg447751)
Part 5 (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,22713.msg447946.html#msg447946)
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Nice. :) The first one looks sort of like a crystal ball. :lol:
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The second one is much better. It resembles Inferno's beam effects IIRC. Sorry, but the first one just looks silly
:D:D
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Originally posted by Rictor
The second one is much better. It resembles Inferno's beam effects IIRC. Sorry, but the first one just looks silly
:D:D
Tis ok, your entilted to your own opinion,
even tho its WRONG :P
j/k
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You know the way that a beam is actually alternating between 3 different beams during firing, to simulate the beam flicker? Wouldn't it be cool if the beam glow would do the same thing? Or perhaps use an ani instead.
Later!
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Originally posted by Trivial Psychic
You know the way that a beam is actually alternating between 3 different beams during firing, to simulate the beam flicker? Wouldn't it be cool if the beam glow would do the same thing? Or perhaps use an ani instead.
Later!
*sigh* if only....
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Those all look very good. The first one looks more than a bit anime (in the good way). Just stunning. :)
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Originally posted by mikhael
Those all look very good. The first one looks more than a bit anime (in the good way). Just stunning. :)
Thx :D
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They all look good, just make the glows smaller :)
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(http://beyond.babylonfive.ru/VEX/t/pics/ancient_ships/fo1.jpg)
Please... please...
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ooh ooh! can i photoshop those, I'll keep the basic shapes, but i just had a really cool idea and i want to test something with the first one plz plz plz
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I don't really like them too much.
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They're to large, but they're a big improvement over the lifeless... powerless stock effects. That image I posted though is what I'd really like to see though.
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The stock effects looked a lot better than these.
These effects look like some edgy 16-colour graphics (the brown one), like some odd solid crystal balls (the first one), and like some misplaced low quality flares (second one)
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And a solid disk looks better? Don't think so. At any rate - the stock effects need improving somehow, congrats to Kracker for making an effort with it - hopefully he or someone will refine this into a decent effect.
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It's quite nifty, I look forward to seeing you refine these further. :)
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Originally posted by Kalfireth
And a solid disk looks better? Don't think so. At any rate - the stock effects need improving somehow, congrats to Kracker for making an effort with it - hopefully he or someone will refine this into a decent effect.
I never said the stock ones were good. They were just, uhm.. less odd?
(http://www.penguinbomb.com/lightspeed/effects_08.jpg)
just look at this mjolnir firing the stock beam, then compare it to this:
(http://hades-combine.com/Upload/temp/blu-white1.jpg)
Now, the second one looks a lot more like a disk - not to mention the weird edge thingy and all that makes it look like a solid crystal ball whereas the first actually *tries* to look like a blinding glow effect.
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nice beam effect there....if a bit odd :/
btw, LS - are those my Hecate textures in there? nifty! O_O
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NICE! :eek2::yes:
As for the FIRST beam, with the big circle around it, I would rather recommend star-ish charge-ups in the beams.
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the stock ones are good. screw you guys.
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The stock ones are boring, stop discouraging people from improving them - if you don't like the improvements you don't have to use them ;)
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the purp star beam glow looks extremely odd... i'm not sure why a beam glow would look like that.... First one ("crystal ball") looks cool though, if a little too white
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im getting a rendering proggy that makes really awesome lens flares.
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Originally posted by Turambar
ooh ooh! can i photoshop those, I'll keep the basic shapes, but i just had a really cool idea and i want to test something with the first one plz plz plz
have fun :yes:
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Originally posted by Krackers87
im getting a rendering proggy that makes really awesome lens flares.
We are looking forward to seeing those.
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I want to mess with the disc and the purple star, make a kind of a star with a little halo and a disc (somewhat like the stock ones), i just need to know which files to modify. I've only worked with stuff that was already there, you see.
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I just need the actual files, Krackers, or tell me what to name the files so i can do them myself
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Originally posted by Singh
btw, LS - are those my Hecate textures in there? nifty! O_O
no. Those are the standard textures, with my shinemaps. :)
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Oh sure steal my screenshots without even giving me the credit ;)
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Interesting, especially the purple pointy one. My favorite beam glows are still the recolored TBP effects that I use for the beam glows in Starforce, even though they're only 256 colors:
(http://www.snohost.com/~spaceforce/tereusbeams.jpg)
I have green, yellow, red, blue, white, and purple versions of this glow, so that all of my 6 factions has one.
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Aren't those beams frying you?
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No, they're anticap beams, and they're pummeling a transport (note where the beams intersect).
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I meant how is that you are still alive? If you fly directly into an Anti-cap beam, you get fried. I deem those beams are too close to you.
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Um, they've missed my ship by 50 meters at LEAST. They look closer because my FOV is set to 0.35 instead of the normal value (0.8).
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Originally posted by Turambar
I just need the actual files, Krackers, or tell me what to name the files so i can do them myself
uhhh... the actual jpg i used in game is the one that is shown on the first post.
The .jpg may look low res cuz i dont think IE displays it right....
all i did to have it ingame was use the latest scp v. and make a new beam based of the sred.
i changed the glow to mine and changed the beam to be white.
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Orange Ring Beam Glow
(http://hades-combine.com/Upload/temp/orgring.jpg)
(http://hades-combine.com/Upload/temp/orgring1.jpg)
(http://hades-combine.com/Upload/temp/orgring2.jpg)
Blue Better Glow
(http://hades-combine.com/Upload/temp/beamplus.jpg)
(http://hades-combine.com/Upload/temp/beamplus1.jpg)
(http://hades-combine.com/Upload/temp/beamplus2.jpg)
Bright White
(http://hades-combine.com/Upload/temp/bright-white.jpg)
(http://hades-combine.com/Upload/temp/bright-white1.jpg)
(http://hades-combine.com/Upload/temp/bright-white2.jpg)
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Ick. The circles fuxor it.
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Actually, the second set are better already. But the lense flare effects are still laid on too thick.
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Krackers, if you want to do a new set of beam effects for the EA in Inferno please be my guest. :yes:
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Originally posted by SadisticSid
Krackers, if you want to do a new set of beam effects for the EA in Inferno please be my guest. :yes:
Sure ting.
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I don't know why, but I can't see the images of the beams. Except for Woolie's picture, of course. And I can see Kalfireth's as well, but the new beam effects, no.
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Woolie: do you have permission to use those graphics from TBP? *Growls* I'm rather sure you don't since i made them origionally.....
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the blue one has ugly cutting edges. Fade the colour to $0,0,0 instead of something like $0,0,10.
Personally, I think the orange ones look like some hypnotizing tools to me.
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I like the Orange ones. The the first picture looks like a supernova to me :D
The blue ones are ok but don't look like particle beams.
I would recommend to mix both together, but without the flares.
Mr. Duckman
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Originally posted by Kazan
Woolie: do you have permission to use those graphics from TBP? *Growls* I'm rather sure you don't since i made them origionally.....
The majority of people allow use of their stuff as long as credit is given, and there were no special guidlines for usage of your effects. So I just went and thought that what satisfies the goose satisfies the gander.
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Originally posted by Woolie Wool
The majority of people allow use of their stuff as long as credit is given, and there were no special guidlines for usage of your effects. So I just went and thought that what satisfies the goose satisfies the gander.
its also known to have common decency and ask
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They all look kinda nice :)
However the original ones still look 'cleaner' to me, like they're part of the beam, whereas these ones have this slightly 'Bolted on' look.
The second set on this page look a lot better than the ones of the first page 'tho. I think it's the transparency, but they look a bit weird when viewed side-on...
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Originally posted by Sheepy
its also known to have common decency and ask
Many of the mods I have used sources from said merely to give credit in their readmes or somewhere else conspicuous and the others said nothing. If it said to ask for permission before I used a resource, I wouldn't use it, because the person who made the resources might say no or not even respond at all. As I began to release screenshots, nobody really voiced any objections, so I saw nothing wrong with it. Even after I released that screen and another screen showing beams with the same glows some months ago, nobody mentioned that I should have asked. AND NOW YOU TELL ME?!
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ever consider that I DIDN'T SEE THEM UNTIL NOW
It's common courteousy to ASK before using - but as long as your crediting go ahead and use them - just remember to ask in the future. We've been over this once before on this forums and it killed a project because the person borrowed from what not a member of the community and they were extremely offended and demanded that the person remove the models and said since they didn't ask before using they couldn't use them.
And if you're afraid to ask because they may say no - and then you use it they're going to be even MORE pissed. You know that's technically copyright infringement!
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ok, i smoothed out the cutting egdes on the blue better beam, but i dont feel like putting it through the game again.
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Originally posted by Kazan
ever consider that I DIDN'T SEE THEM UNTIL NOW
It's common courteousy to ASK before using - but as long as your crediting go ahead and use them - just remember to ask in the future. We've been over this once before on this forums and it killed a project because the person borrowed from what not a member of the community and they were extremely offended and demanded that the person remove the models and said since they didn't ask before using they couldn't use them.
And if you're afraid to ask because they may say no - and then you use it they're going to be even MORE pissed. You know that's technically copyright infringement!
Understood. Sorry for any offense I may have caused.
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Hows this (about 30 seconds of photoshop and a minute of table editing on this baby)
(http://img2.imageshack.us/img2/1954/screen29.jpg)
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and yes, i see the edges on the top bottom and sides, I'll get rid of them
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WHOA!!!:eek2:
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It's too big. Half of the side is cut off where it intersects with the destroyer. While that's not necessarily the end of the world for the glow itself, the fact that the lense flares are cutting off abrubtly is a bit wrong IMHO. It's not bad though and scaled down a bit it should actually work quite well.
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the effect is a real one, the higher energy levels near the beam origin point generate higher wavelengths of light and it fades a bit through the spectrum (i got it off a saber mod for JK2)
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No no, not the rings of the lense flares, the hard edge where they intersect the destroyer. The glow itself may be masked out, but as the lense flare is a product of the observer rather than the source, the ring should still be a full circle. Right now it isn't. The scaling's too big.
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so should i scale the image or the table entry?
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Table entry. Reduce the glow radius.
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and im not much of a coder, so i dont know how to do the sort of thing where you see the lens flare over everything else.
I just wanted a "little bits of energy coming into the beam" effect, like in Gundam Wing, except less cartoony
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Go into Notepad and open the weapons.tbl file. Use the "find" dialog box to find the weapon "BVas". There will be a line where it specifies the radius of the glow in meters. Reduce the number as needed.
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I know how to do that, thats how i renamed the files in the first place
I'm definitely not up to going through all the beams again and changing everything, so I won't, if someone thinks they can separate the flare from the beam origin point, and then have that display on top regardless, except when the point is out of sight (i.e. on the other side of a ship), then they can do it.
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added Bright White to part 2
(http://hades-combine.com/Upload/temp/bright-white2.jpg)
lookin good dood :yes:
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It'll be a sad day when my 30 day photoshop trial period ends
28 days remaining
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Simple Green
(http://hades-combine.com/Upload/temp/simp-green.jpg)
(http://hades-combine.com/Upload/temp/simpgreen1.jpg)
(http://hades-combine.com/Upload/temp/simpgreen2.jpg)
Violet Star
(http://hades-combine.com/Upload/temp/pstar.jpg)
(http://hades-combine.com/Upload/temp/pstar1.jpg)
(http://hades-combine.com/Upload/temp/pstar2.jpg)
Simple Purp:
(http://hades-combine.com/Upload/temp/spurp.jpg)
(http://hades-combine.com/Upload/temp/spurp1.jpg)
(http://hades-combine.com/Upload/temp/spurp2.jpg)
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I think Turumbar's the best :D Looks most like the originals, while still having that new feeling.
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LOL (drools) nice... The orange one looked like phaser fire (yes, the "ball" was too big)
The green one looked almost romulan :D
Very good job!!
Mr. Duckman
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Originally posted by Unknown Target
I think Turumbar's the best :D Looks most like the originals, while still having that new feeling.
Same here, when this is released doesn't effect the way current thrusters look, or something??
Or does just look different on beams??
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I changed the weapons.tbl so that it wouldn't conflict with thrusters, as i just made a thruster set like, yesterday, (I'm waiting for Drew to upload it)
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Well then there goes lightspeeds weapons, these maybe good to add on when lightspeed gets his done or you can work together or something...
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Oh, and i think i caught the beam at a thin point, that there is the high-power beam that destroyed the Belisarius, It's gotta have big balls!, or rather, a higher energy *cough*
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Oh No! i used the weapons.tbl that came with Lightspeed's Weapons!
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Originally posted by Unknown Target
I think Turumbar's the best :D Looks most like the originals, while still having that new feeling.
Am I the only one that thinks not looking 'most like the originals' is a GOOD thing? :nervous:
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Originally posted by Turambar
Oh No! i used the weapons.tbl that came with Lightspeed's Weapons!
Sweet!
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so who feels like uploading this zip file? Its not too big, just four .tga's and a .tbl
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I will send me an emai with them and they'll be up in 5 minutes:D
[email protected]
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here they are
swooh.com/peon/jdjtcagle/Turambar's%20Beams.zip
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Hmm, Turambar's looks nice. Could be a little smaller and it would be nice if the lense flare effect could be a full circle somehow (no idea how to do that).
As for looking like the originals. It doesn't matter too much to me if they look the originals or not, but rather if they look good, and not peculiar.
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(http://hades-combine.com/Upload/temp/pstar2.jpg)
New: Violet Star
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Put the orange ring on a ship and have it fire a vas beam. I just wanna see what it would look like. Also, I love the green one for Terran's, it's plain cool.
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Some Fresh screenies from my little mod
(http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/929/screen3.jpg)
(http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/8773/screen4.jpg)
(http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/9293/screen5.jpg)
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Now those I like. Simple, elegant, good all around. I still think you need to remember that the images are square and make your outer radius appropriately to prevent those straight edges on the sides, but looking nice! :yes:
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Originally posted by Krackers87
Simple Green
(http://hades-combine.com/Upload/temp/simp-green.jpg)
(http://hades-combine.com/Upload/temp/simpgreen1.jpg)
(http://hades-combine.com/Upload/temp/simpgreen2.jpg)
These I like, the "charge up" glow effect (or whatever it is) isn't too overpowering to the beam or the rest of the ship. Some of the others are.. I can't even see a Fenris/Levi behind one of the star beams.. may be the screen? Anyway, I like these green ones a lot. :yes: :)
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Thx, as for the other glows, i just used the fenris and deimos as a example, but they can be used on any kind of ship.
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Turambar: you still have cutting edges on the sides of the TGA files (fade to $0,0,0 at the edges) - Get rid of them and it'll look a bit better - too bad SCP has the intersecting problems, but i'm afraid theres nothing you/we can do about it at the moment.
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But AFTER 3.6 ...
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Real nice Turambar, I particularly like the subtle green one you've created. :)
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I like the green glows, but they are not "freespaceish" enough.
And they look too, soft. The glows need to fit to the beams and to sounds. So they should look very powerfull.
I think they should look more like this:
(http://www.ystart.net/upload/20040408/1081437600.jpg)
(http://www.ystart.net/upload/20040408/1081437418.jpg)
(http://www.ystart.net/upload/20040408/1081437463.jpg)
(http://www.ystart.net/upload/20040408/1081437506.jpg)
(http://www.ystart.net/upload/20040408/1081437825.jpg)
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Good, but a little furry
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Is it possible to animate the glows ?
That would be a nice effect :) But also more work.
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Shouldn't be so fuzzy wuzzy woo :D
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Originally posted by DaBrain
I like the green glows, but they are not "freespaceish" enough.
And they look too, soft. The glows need to fit to the beams and to sounds. So they should look very powerfull.
I think they should look more like this:
(http://www.ystart.net/upload/20040408/1081437600.jpg)
WHOA! Could you send me those, please? Those would really fit the Starforce beam cannons which, after all, make FS2 beams seem like pop guns (the larger ones carried on corvette-size ships and up have yields in the teraton range).
I'll use Krackers' purple star one for the Zica beams if he gives me permission because that glow looks more alien and menacing.
My email address is:
[email protected]
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Originally posted by Ulala
These I like, the "charge up" glow effect (or whatever it is) isn't too overpowering to the beam or the rest of the ship. Some of the others are.. I can't even see a Fenris/Levi behind one of the star beams.. may be the screen? Anyway, I like these green ones a lot. :yes: :)
They look kind of wimpy, as if they were prototype beam cannons. They wouldn't look bad on the Lucifer though since its beams are also crude prototypes.
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Since when did the Lucifer had "crude" prototype beams when a Lucifer demolished the Ancients ages ago with beams also?
And those beams have way to much flare. Perhaps if they're animated and they're not all there at once it would be pretty good, but as it is, it's just odd.
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Originally posted by ChronoReverse
Since when did the Lucifer had "crude" prototype beams when a Lucifer demolished the Ancients ages ago with beams also?
In comparison to FS2 beams (both GTVA and Shivan) they are terribly underpowered. It seems logical that this is because they are less sophisticated prototypes of the FS2 beam cannons. I personally think that the Lucifer fleet was composed of the oldest ships the Shivans had and thrown at us because they didn't take us all that seriously. FS2 was when they started really turning up the heat.
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Well, I disagree with Woolie, but nothing new there.
I also think that having huge rays sticking from the glow is tacky, but that's also my opinion.
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Originally posted by Raa Tor'h
I also think that having huge rays sticking from the glow is tacky, but that's also my opinion.
Those rays are actually more realistic than small rays or none at all. Defects in our eyes cause us to see points on light sources. The brighter the light source, the longer and more intense the points. I would think that something as high-energy as a beam cannon would produce a huge amount of light, enough to destroy your eyesight if you were to look at them without protection of some sort. Even with special cockpit glass to block out some of the light, you would still see huge points extending from the beam glow.
NB: This only works for light sources of certain shapes. The beam itself would have no points.
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Our eyes have defects, but not so much that the flares become that large. The flares are way too big to be justified that way. If you stopped at "it looks cool" then you'd be ok since everyone has their own opinion.
The Lucifer beams can demolish the entire surface of a planet and kill an orion in a couple of minutes (using just two beams).
Sure the orion had didn't have dedicated anti-beam armour, but it was still heavily armoured and the Lucifer only had a couple of beams too.
So how does this seem "terribly underpowered" compared to FS2 beams?
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Originally posted by ChronoReverse
Our eyes have defects, but not so much that the flares become that large. The flares are way too big to be justified that way. If you stoped at "it looks cool" then you'd be alright.
The Lucifer beams can demolish the entire surface of a planet and kill an orion in a couple of minutes (using just two beams).
Sure the orion had less anti-beam weaponry, but it was still heavily armoured and the Lucifer only had a couple of beams too.
So how does this seem "terribly underpowered" compared to FS2 beams?
Here's an idea of how powerful later beams are compared to the Lucy's.
Shivan Super Laser
Damage: 10000
Fire Wait: 10 sec
BFRed
Damage per interval: 2400
Damage per shot: 80850
Fire Wait: 10 sec
BFGreen
Damage per interval: 1900
Damage per shot: 41800
Fire Wait: 35 sec
LRed
Damage per interval: 600
Damage per shot: 23100
Fire Wait: 10 sec
BGreen
Damage per interval: 1200
Damage oer shot: 26400
Fire Wait: 30 sec
BVas
Damage per interval: 1100
Damage per shot: 22385
Fire Wait: 24 sec
Also, given enough range, a capship can dodge a Shivan Super Laser. There's no way it can evade, say, an LRed.
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First of all, I believe there's a Lucy in FS2 (not the Derelict one). What's its weapons there?
Secondly, the damage ratings between FS1 and FS2 are different. How do I know that? The Prometheus in FS1 and the the Prometheus S in FS2 are the same weapon. If you look at the tables, the Prometheus S is stronger in FS2.
Thirdly, the only reason why the Shivan Superlaser could potentally be dodged is because :V: hadn't implemented beams into FS1 and just used a modified missile trail.
Finally, wasn't a sexp used to kill the things the Lucy shot at quicker? Maybe they wanted to make it even more powerful?
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1. The FS2 Lucy has Shivan Super Lasers, but it was never used in the campaign and cannot be included in this comparison.
2. Wrong. The FS1 ships carried over have the same shield and armor ratings as in FS1. By your theory, this means their shields and armor would be weaker than they were 32 years ago, which makes no sense. The Prometheus S is NOT exactly the same as the original. It sounds different and its loadout animation looks different.
3. WOW, IT'S NOT LIKE THEY COULD HAVE MADE THE PROJECTILE GO FASTER, IS IT?:rolleyes:
4. I'm not quite sure.
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2. Actually, you're forgetting something. The armour modifier values for the Prometheus S and FS1 Prometheus have also been changed as well. This probably negates any argument, since it makes it clear that :V: changed a lot in the damage ratings.
3. Well, the fastest projectile I've seen is the Trebuchet and even that isn't very fast. In any case, making it go faster has no implications at all since the Lucy was always at point-blank range and has never been shown to miss.
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Ok, this is the new version.
Is this better ?
(http://www.ystart.net/upload/20040408/1081448802.jpg)
(http://www.ystart.net/upload/20040408/1081448877.jpg)
(http://www.ystart.net/upload/20040408/1081448901.jpg)
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Much better. Major flares and minor flares. If this were animated it would be very good.
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I like the "fuzzy" ones better.
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Originally posted by ChronoReverse
Much better. Major flares and minor flares. If this were animated it would be very good.
Hmm I like them. But they look a bit strange on shivan ships...
(Yes, I made them red...)
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Do you still have the old "fuzzy" ones?
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does the beam ever get reflected on the ship? I forget...
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Originally posted by Krackers87
Simple Purp:
(http://hades-combine.com/Upload/temp/spurp.jpg)
(http://hades-combine.com/Upload/temp/spurp1.jpg)
(http://hades-combine.com/Upload/temp/spurp2.jpg)
Added to part 3
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Part 4
Fuzzy Blue:
(http://hades-combine.com/Upload/temp/Fuzzy-Blue.jpg)
(http://hades-combine.com/Upload/temp/fuzzy-blue1.jpg)
(http://hades-combine.com/Upload/temp/fuzzy-blue2.jpg)
Hazy Peach:
(http://hades-combine.com/Upload/temp/hazy-peach.jpg)
(http://hades-combine.com/Upload/temp/hazy-peach1.jpg)
(http://hades-combine.com/Upload/temp/hazy-peach2.jpg)
Sunburst:
(http://hades-combine.com/Upload/temp/Sunburst.jpg)
(http://hades-combine.com/Upload/temp/sunburst1.jpg)
(http://hades-combine.com/Upload/temp/sunburst2.jpg)
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I like the fuzzy ones. It would be cooler if we could get animated beam glows (might involve editing the source). If you watch a beam power up closely, you'll see small energy globules gravitating towards the beam origin. So an animated "fuzzy" effect might be very realistic.
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Part 5
Fuzzy Yellow:
(http://hades-combine.com/Upload/temp/fuzzy-yello.jpg)
(http://hades-combine.com/Upload/temp/fuzzy-yello1.jpg)
(http://hades-combine.com/Upload/temp/fuzzy-yello2.jpg)
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Your glows seem to be very static. Try to make them look more powerful.
I think the fuzzy ones are more agressiv.
P.S. Why are you all using 500x500, just like me ?
(http://www.ystart.net/upload/20040409/1081477367.jpg)
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Why is anyone using a size not (2^n)^2? You're wasting computational cycles. Scale these things properly!
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That was my number 1 complaint about the media.vp
If you're going to make art for FS2_open, do it right. Make the edge sizes 2^n.
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Originally posted by Woolie Wool
Do you still have the old "fuzzy" ones?
Sure, but i need Webspace to upload them...
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I like them all. Well, except the really bright orange one that looks like a sun.
It would be greeat to have different effects for different types of beams.
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Sorry, but I'm with Lightspeed on this one. The beams are way too...not beam-ish. They don't look like a beam is charging up. Rather, they look sort of like...one of your glow-in-the-dark stars that you tack with gum onto your ceiling and you retro-fitted it to a FS2 beam.
Now about Woolie and Chrono. I am completely behind Woolie on just about all the points. The Lucifer was a weak ship. If you don't recall, somewhere mentioned that whatever Shivans the GTA and PVN fought during FS1 were only a taskforce (I believe it states that on the back of the original FS2 gamebox). Do you ever see the Lucy running in multiples? Hell no. But you have an assload of Sathani don't you? Lucy blew up Vasuda Prime. Sath blew up the Capella sun. Difference? Besides, you can't really call the Lucifer's beams...well, "beams." It was called the "Shivan Super Laser" for a reason. It was designed to completely mutilate the **** out of the Terrans and Vasudans, and also scare the **** out of them too (and it did that well, AT THE TIME). And besides, don't you think the Sath would easily take out a planet with its four forward beams (it DID take out an entire galaxy, although by supernova, still took it out).
Just because the Lucifier took out an entire species (and who's to say it wasn't the Sathani instead), it doesn't mean it was UB3R advanced. It only had TWO beams. Besides, the Lucifer was probably the only thing the Shivans had back then (of course taking from your argument that the Sath probably didn't exist back then anyway). How can you say the Lucy is stronger just because you don't know that the Sath hasn't taken out an entire race?
The Prometheus cannon in FS1 can no way compare to that of FS2's. Why? Simply put, the Prometheus cannon never existed in FS2. There's a reason why there are the Prometheus R and S in FS2. Contrary to what you may believe, the Prometheus R (for Retro-fit) is a lot closer to the original FS1 Prometheus. They built that cannon from long ago, and because of lack of resources to continue building it, they built a retro-fit version for cost-effective purposes. The Prometheus S came around as an upgrade. And the main reason it's so different is because it's supposed to kick more ass than the FS1 cannon did. Besides, the FS1 cannon is half the size of that of the Prometheus S, primarily because the Prometheus S has a fatass extended...thing for, as I said, kicking ass. Can't really say it's a barrel 'cause it doesn't shoot two globs. It sucks a lot more energy too.
Anyway...back to the beams. I really don't like 'em cuz...well, beams don't charge up like that. They'd be ok if they only showed up that way when the beams are discharged...but charging up? What kind of beam charges up with energy already exerted in the form of ... spikes (or flares, if I have that right)? The beam must first gather it's energy into the core and then fire it, correct? I just don't think it makes sense. Plus, the beams are just BIG (and I mean all the beams I've seen in here, except the ones that LS showed), and most of them and their flares intersect the hull of the ship that they are firing from...not exactly giving them a smooth effect. Looks kinda ugly...
Woooh....sorry for the text-heaviness.
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Why must there be so many problems about realism dammit? Why can something just look cool and leave it at that?
If we areaiming for realism, then there shouldnt be any charge up or beam at all! The beam itself is completely unrealistic since light only would reflect of an material. So in real life, there would be no beam at all.
In addition, there would be no glowing charg for the same reason.
So I have a great idea! For the sake of realism lets have no glow or beam at all and just have a little spot of color where the beam hits, since thats all youd see in real life.
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It's not a realism thing as much as it is plausability. AqueousShadow has the right idea in my opinion, the cartoony, spiky glows are not in keeping with the overall feel of the game. They break the plausability threshold and that makes them look completely out of place. Once cell shading is back in, the effect might be appropriate since it has a lot of the anime feel, but in the current (well lit) environment they just look wrong.
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Wait, what charge up are we talking about? I was under the impression that these things (coronas, flaers, whatever you call them) were displayed the entire time that the beam is shooting. Right? The only difference between chacrge up phase and firing phase is the sound and the fact that during the charge up phase there is no actual beam. Is that right, are have I just forgoten how it works?
And I'm with Krackers. Who cares about realism. FS2 is about as true to life as Quake is to an actual war. The criteria here is that it should look cool, and thats been accomplished wonderfully.
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To me, they look no less realistic than the thruster glows or anything else. As long as its subtle (and in most of these it is) than its fine. They don't look cartoony to me, they look almost identical to vanilla FS2 beam, only a bit more powerful.
Think EVE..
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Originally posted by StratComm
It's not a realism thing as much as it is plausability. AqueousShadow has the right idea in my opinion, the cartoony, spiky glows are not in keeping with the overall feel of the game. They break the plausability threshold and that makes them look completely out of place. Once cell shading is back in, the effect might be appropriate since it has a lot of the anime feel, but in the current (well lit) environment they just look wrong.
Im sorry, but for me, there is verry little plausibility in FS2 thats one of the reasons i love it so much.
I sudgest you all play Terminus, it shows how boring real life, or plausible, space fighting is.
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DaBrain, I like your work too. :) I think the problem with all these patterned beam glows is that since they aren't animated, they have the same appearance and exactly the same flares and lines for every beam that is fired - which gets a bit repetitive. When animated beam glows come, that will be awesome. :nod:
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I don't like Krackers' new Sunburst one. It's garish and overdone.
The Hazy Peach is good. Keep it.
The Fuzzy Yellow would be good if it was made yellow-orange instead of its current color, which reminds me of a seasick person's complexion.
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Originally posted by AqueousShadow
Sorry, but I'm with Lightspeed on this one. The beams are way too...not beam-ish. They don't look like a beam is charging up. Rather, they look sort of like...one of your glow-in-the-dark stars that you tack with gum onto your ceiling and you retro-fitted it to a FS2 beam.
If they animated so that the points revolved around the glow center or just kind of "shimmered", they would be btter.
Now about Woolie and Chrono. I am completely behind Woolie on just about all the points. The Lucifer was a weak ship. If you don't recall, somewhere mentioned that whatever Shivans the GTA and PVN fought during FS1 were only a taskforce (I believe it states that on the back of the original FS2 gamebox). Do you ever see the Lucy running in multiples? Hell no. But you have an assload of Sathani don't you? Lucy blew up Vasuda Prime. Sath blew up the Capella sun. Difference? Besides, you can't really call the Lucifer's beams...well, "beams." It was called the "Shivan Super Laser" for a reason. It was designed to completely mutilate the **** out of the Terrans and Vasudans, and also scare the **** out of them too (and it did that well, AT THE TIME). And besides, don't you think the Sath would easily take out a planet with its four forward beams (it DID take out an entire galaxy, although by supernova, still took it out).
First of all, the Sathanas did not take out a whole galaxy. It only destroyed a single star. To destroy the galaxy, they would need to do the Capella thing hundreds of billions of times over and then deal with other bodies there like molecular clouds and the giant mother****er of a black hole in the center.
Second, the Sathanas did not destroy Capella by conventional means. They used a subspace rift thingy instead of dumping ****loads of energy into the target using beam cannons. However, even a single Sath could have rendered Vasuda Prime in...let's see. The Lucy took 13 hours and had two beams doing 10000 damage with a fire wait of ten seconds each. A BFRed does 80850 damage with a fire wait of ten seconds and a Sath has four of them so...
[13(2)]/8.085/4
26/8.085/4
~0.803
....About 48 minutes with BFReds alone.
Just because the Lucifier took out an entire species (and who's to say it wasn't the Sathani instead), it doesn't mean it was UB3R advanced. It only had TWO beams. Besides, the Lucifer was probably the only thing the Shivans had back then (of course taking from your argument that the Sath probably didn't exist back then anyway). How can you say the Lucy is stronger just because you don't know that the Sath hasn't taken out an entire race?
Indeed. If it wasn't for the Bastion and the Nereid sealing off Capella, they WOULD have annihalated humanity.
The Prometheus cannon in FS1 can no way compare to that of FS2's. Why? Simply put, the Prometheus cannon never existed in FS2. There's a reason why there are the Prometheus R and S in FS2. Contrary to what you may believe, the Prometheus R (for Retro-fit) is a lot closer to the original FS1 Prometheus. They built that cannon from long ago, and because of lack of resources to continue building it, they built a retro-fit version for cost-effective purposes. The Prometheus S came around as an upgrade. And the main reason it's so different is because it's supposed to kick more ass than the FS1 cannon did. Besides, the FS1 cannon is half the size of that of the Prometheus S, primarily because the Prometheus S has a fatass extended...thing for, as I said, kicking ass. Can't really say it's a barrel 'cause it doesn't shoot two globs. It sucks a lot more energy too.
Not quite correct. The Prometheus R was an attempt to build a version of the Prometheus that doesn't use as much argon gas because such gas was in short supply before miners were deployed to the nebula. It fires more slowly, uses more energy, and does less damage (especially shield damage) than the original Prometheus or the S version. The S version was developed after the nebula was explored and was a version of the original upgraded to keep up with the times (thus its higher damage values).
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added a link to download a zip of all my glows.
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the sathani and other shivan **** were around for a long, long time.
Lucifer seemed more like a "commando-destroyer" to me.
the shivans most likely observed the terrans/vasudans for some time (remember that the scanners didn't pick em up at first? who says the shivans would not have totally invisible-to-radar staelth ships too?) and saw that they only had green and yellow blobs to throw at each other with their warships.
"Hey, that won't get through that special shielded capship of ours, let's whack em!"
The lucy was very powerful because it came by surprise, it was big, and the TV's were used to a conventional outside of subspace fighting.
besides, when the lucy showed up, the only thing the TV's did was retreating :p
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Originally posted by ChronoReverse
First of all, I believe there's a Lucy in FS2 (not the Derelict one). What's its weapons there?
As far as I recall it was armed with 2 SRed (changed that to BFRed for my purposes ;) ) , though that's from the tbl - didn't look into the mission file Fred-wise.
As to where it appeared, I think I recall it to be in retail FS2 part of some supplement force you have to stop from jumping to the place of the main battle to prevent it from turning into a massacre, with an SD Demon arriving before or after it in your location.
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That was Bearbaiting, with the Sath. The lucifer never appeared in FS2 retail, and with good reason... it's mapping is aweful if you don't use the FS1 textures and the registry hack.
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Originally posted by StratComm
That was Bearbaiting, with the Sath. The lucifer never appeared in FS2 retail, and with good reason... it's mapping is aweful if you don't use the FS1 textures and the registry hack.
???? :confused:
I'm pretty sure it was in the (retail) mission I mentioned above, though it didn't draw very much attention and also wasn't shielded (thinking that the FS1 Lucy propably was some sort of testbed ship :) ).
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It most certainly wasn't in the retail campaign. The only Shivan destroyers you ever see are Ravanas and Demons.
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Originally posted by Woolie Wool
1. The FS2 Lucy has Shivan Super Lasers, but it was never used in the campaign and cannot be included in this comparison.
2. Wrong. The FS1 ships carried over have the same shield and armor ratings as in FS1. By your theory, this means their shields and armor would be weaker than they were 32 years ago, which makes no sense. The Prometheus S is NOT exactly the same as the original. It sounds different and its loadout animation looks different.
3. WOW, IT'S NOT LIKE THEY COULD HAVE MADE THE PROJECTILE GO FASTER, IS IT?:rolleyes:
4. I'm not quite sure.
1) False, it did use them, in the destruction of your main ship (the Galatea, correct?)
2) You are wrong. They did change, and most of the ships got about a 10 % shield + armor boost.
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1) Was talking about the lack of the Lucifer's appearance in canon FS2, and thus the illigetimacy of the tables provided for it.
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1)
Uh, does it matter? Of course, to the shivans the Lucifer started to be a liability while in subspace. So there would be no point in shielding it. Thus, taking her out of service.
Anyway, the Ravana and the Sathanas Juggernaut clearly out-class the Lucifer in any way. Even the Rakshasa would.
Perhaps the Lucifer was just a prototype, like, for example, the Klingon Bird of Prey that fires when cloaked. Only that when it was destoyed the project was no more.....
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If those flux cannons it used in FS1 could take out an Orion in a single volley, the Lucifer is hardly outclassed by any Shivan destroyer encountered in either game. The Lucy also was a substantially better fighterbase than the Demon, so that has to be taken into consideration as well. And the tables are still not legitimately balanced for use in FS2 (as are the entries for the Hades, for the same reasons) since the ship never actually wound up in a mission.
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Originally posted by Unknown Target
1) False, it did use them, in the destruction of your main ship (the Galatea, correct?)
2) You are wrong. They did change, and most of the ships got about a 10 % shield + armor boost.
1) WRONG. He said FS2. Galatea is FS1 man...FS1!
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Lets be gentile to the newbie :p
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Originally posted by StratComm
Lets be gentile to the newbie :p
We are. It's UT who's getting the rough handling and he's been around long enough to know better :p
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Turambar's beams win this particular contest IMO - they look close to FS2s, but are definitely upgraded. And yes Mik, that is a good thing :).
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Originally posted by Krackers87
added a link to download a zip of all my glows.
You forgot to post it dude...:wtf:
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[cough] First page [/cough]
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Originally posted by karajorma
We are. It's UT who's getting the rough handling and he's been around long enough to know better :p
Gimme a break, I haven't played FS1 in...what, two, three years? :D
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Yeah but we were talking about FS2 :p
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Originally posted by Black Wolf
Turambar's beams win this particular contest IMO - they look close to FS2s, but are definitely upgraded. And yes Mik, that is a good thing :).
oh yeh? well im a non conformist, so :P
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I like Turambar's but DaBrain's look really good while departing from the traditional freespace look.
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shall I modify the tables so you can get the new glows -and- the cool particles?
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I like Turambar's beamglows too. It was not my idea to create new ones. So I only followed his idea.
But I try to make Freespace 2 feel like an new, modern game, without loosing the freespace feeling ;)
I know some people want to have the glows look more they looked before, but this really decreases modding possiblities. :(
Originally posted by Turambar
shall I modify the tables so you can get the new glows -and- the cool particles?
Sure, so everybody can use the effects he want.
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Originally posted by DaBrain
I know some people want to have the glows look more they looked before, but this really decreases modding possiblities. :(
I disagree. I mean, there's nothing wrong with making new types of beams that use these spiky glows, but I personally don't see that as what V had in mind. These spikes could have been added relatively easily by V, perhaps in fewer colours and such like, but they could have done it, but chose not to, preferring to remain with simpler glows. I don;t see how upgrading these par ticular weapons in this particular style limits what people can do with different weapons.
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I think V left the rays out, because of the colour limt.
These rays need to fade out really smooth, otherwise they look horrible.
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Personally I never had any gripes with the FS2 warm-up/down beam glows. I'd think that community efforts would be better spent coming up with all sorts of beam effects themselves, with textures rippling down the beam length, etc... there's so much possibility there it's actually amazing nobody's done any (public) work in that area that I know of.
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Originally posted by DaBrain
I think V left the rays out, because of the colour limt.
These rays need to fade out really smooth, otherwise they look horrible.
They could have done it - same way they did it for the suns and stuff.
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Originally posted by Sandwich
Personally I never had any gripes with the FS2 warm-up/down beam glows. I'd think that community efforts would be better spent coming up with all sorts of beam effects themselves, with textures rippling down the beam length, etc... there's so much possibility there it's actually amazing nobody's done any (public) work in that area that I know of.
Aye...the beam glows themselves were actually pretty good for what they were. I, for one, agree with this. The standard glows are good...and well, bringing something new into the FS world that doesn't fit...well doesn't quite fit. An upgraded versions of the standard glows would be nice like Turambar's a believe. But uhh, the beams themselves should be experimented with.
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Originally posted by Sandwich
Personally I never had any gripes with the FS2 warm-up/down beam glows. I'd think that community efforts would be better spent coming up with all sorts of beam effects themselves, with textures rippling down the beam length, etc... there's so much possibility there it's actually amazing nobody's done any (public) work in that area that I know of.
Checked Mantis lately?
If not, notice my bug reports. ;)
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Mantis? Is that the Bugzilla replacement thingy for you coder types? ;)
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Yes. You haven't heard of it yet? There's a sticky thread about it:
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,19573.0.html
Yay 4300th post
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From a glance at Mantis, using an ani for the beam doesn't seem to work. Nevertheless, the tiling code and moving tiling code should still be working unless that's borked too.
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Not registered there, and currently don't have time to. I'll do it later this afternoon... maybe. :p
(I don't like registering at places without need. :p)
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Originally posted by ChronoReverse
From a glance at Mantis, using an ani for the beam doesn't seem to work. Nevertheless, the tiling code and moving tiling code should still be working unless that's borked too.
But as always - I like to wait until *everything* works properly before even bothering to start to work on something. :)
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As i look at the beams, i wonder where my beams have gone, the ones i made for shivan swarm :'(
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I just wan't beam glows that look like those from the cutseens of FS2 the ending ones look sweet!