Author Topic: What would a GTI victory look like?  (Read 8713 times)

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Re: What would a GTI victory look like?
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The Hades completely outclasses anything outside the Colossus built by the GTVA.
It doesn't. It's just a really big ship. It doesn't neccisarely have any advantages beyond being a big ship (Which is the same problem the colossus has). It should be noted that the Hades was brought down by fighters alone, on its first deployment.

When considering things built by the GTVA, you should also consider the armanent: The GTVA was able to put beam cannons on all of its capital ships. You'd have to consider if the GTI could do the same, as the GTVA had acccess to GTI records (they just didn't decide to use the talking-to-shivans bits, as per bosch), and the GTVA has at least double the scientists as the GTI would have (since they're not sidelining the Vasudans*).

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For your question, minute for minute, I think the willing worker is the more productive worker. But the willing worker working a normal work week would be outstripped by the slave worker working dawn to dusk 24/7. Before you even get to the reduced costs of said workers.

So this is provably false. The more you make people work, the less results you get. Fatigue is a real thing that you can't just beat out of people.

* And if we're going to back to the Nazi point: The nazis lost a bunch of their scientists by sidelining them. The self-imposed brain drain of authoritarian governments is very real.

 

Offline Aesaar

  • 210
Re: What would a GTI victory look like?
The nazis are an interesting example in that they had superior military technology and inferior many other things. They went a long way with that superior technology, they would have flattened any other European nation in a one on one confrontation.

The Nazis couldn't even beat the UK one on one.  The USSR, once it actually got its **** together and had good commanders in charge, beat the living **** out of Nazi Germany through the use of superior logistics and superior doctrine.

"Superior Nazis technology" is a meme.  The only domain in which the nazis were more advanced than anyone else was rocketry.  The Allies were equal or superior in every other respect.

There's a reason why the USA successfully developed the atomic bomb and Nazi Germany wasn't even close.

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They were able to defeat the combined power of multiple allied nations.

Uh, what version of WW2 have you been learning about?  The Nazi weren't able to defeat the Allies.  They lost the war.

 
Re: What would a GTI victory look like?
The Nazis beating the French was also a huge fluke. If the French had kept a mobile reserve or even telephone lines to their commanders the Ardennes offensive would likely have failed and Nazi Germany would have lost the war years earlier, comprehensively outmatched and beset by economic collapse.
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 
Re: What would a GTI victory look like?
Additionally if you are going to pull claims out of your arse about the efficiency of Nazi slave labour programs you are required to buy and read The Wages of Destruction by Adam Tooze: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B002RI9MSY/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1661287465&sr=8-1

I sure as hell didn’t go to the effort of reading it to try to precis the entire thing to ****ing Lorric.
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 
Re: What would a GTI victory look like?
Imagine actually thinking in your ostensibly functioning human brain that slave labour is some sort of video game thing where you flip a switch and people work 24/7 for a happiness debuff lol. Yeah if you’re brutal enough to people they’ll just power through the need to sleep! Even the Nazis had more contact with reality than that, though if they’d also stuck to posting we’d all be better off.
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 

Offline 0rph3u5

  • 211
  • Oceans rise. Empires fall.
Re: What would a GTI victory look like?
The question is if the occupation by orbital blockade would be sustainable on basic level - A fleet orbiting a planet still would need to be supplied from somewhere; if you are deliberatly cut yourself off from the planet your are orbiting a source of supply to avoid sabotage (and that's assuming that the planet can supply your fleet) you need a supply train from a safe port. The longer that supply chain get the more vurnable your blockade is to disruption - be it by attack, sabotage or just run of the mill frictions.

There's no canon evidence that loosing Sol rendered the exiled forces inoperational in the short run. Cooperation had started not long ago so even if they had prioritized Terran needs over their own (which seems pretty unlikely to me) so that may have happened later on but atleast for the time of the rebellion it should've worked.

This is not about short term -- I actually been spending a lot more research time on what it takes to supply a space ship long term (because I've an interest what highly automated ships should look like, and the remaing crew are a major logistical issue)
Without a port for regular resupply, oxygen and water supply as well as replacement parts for filtration and scrubber systems will add up

The worst part is water - while technically abundant through cosmic ice - it is also a prime vector to introduce hazardous material (biological or chemical) onto a star ship, and possibly contaminate it permanently.
"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nyrissa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

==================

"I am Curiosity, and I've always wondered what would become of you, here at the end of the world." - The Guide/The Curious Other, Othercide

"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

"...because they are not Dragons."

 
Re: What would a GTI victory look like?
I should probably also adress the whole "It's cheaper to not pay your workers" point because it's bad.

Specifically: Not paying your employees is great from the perspective of an individual who owns a space-ship making factory. You get to keep your money! But it means **** all for a society that's trying to maximize warship production. The goal here is to build as many warships as possible, not who gets to reaps the benefits (although you may want to look into that since you also kinda want to have a society that people want to live in if you want to keep your head).

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

  • HLP is my mistress
  • 213
  • Aken Tigh Dekker- you've probably heard me
    • My old squad sub-domain
Re: What would a GTI victory look like?
All depends on the way society functions in GTI Land.    Will private industry even be a thing, will MONEY even be a thing?   Was money a thing in the GTA even?   I can't recall it even being stated if companies like subach were privately owned or not.

Any insight from the reference bible?
Campaigns I've added my distinctiveness to-
- Blue Planet: Battle Captains
-Battle of Neptune
-Between the Ashes 2
-Blue planet: Age of Aquarius
-FOTG?
-Inferno R1
-Ribos: The aftermath / -Retreat from Deneb
-Sol: A History
-TBP EACW teaser
-Earth Brakiri war
-TBP Fortune Hunters (I think?)
-TBP Relic
-Trancsend (Possibly?)
-Uncharted Territory
-Vassagos Dirge
-War Machine
(Others lost to the mists of time and no discernible audit trail)

Your friendly Orestes tactical controller.

Secret bomb God.
That one time I got permabanned and got to read who was being bitxhy about me :p....
GO GO DEKKER RANGERSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
President of the Scooby Doo Model Appreciation Society
The only good Zod is a dead Zod
NEWGROUNDS COMEDY GOLD, UPDATED DAILY
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Re: What would a GTI victory look like?
The GTVA had private corperations at least, but I don't think FS1 covers this aspect at all.

 

Offline Lorric

  • 212
Re: What would a GTI victory look like?
Yeah, this is what I thought would happen if the tangents started. The fun's been taken out of this now. I don't know if you had more you intended to post Joshua, but know it's unlikely I'll be interested now.

 
Re: What would a GTI victory look like?
Y'know, with that attitude I can see why most people don't really bother with you anymore. Next time I'll try to address the ignorance of your statements, I'll do it for other people's sake, not yours.

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

  • HLP is my mistress
  • 213
  • Aken Tigh Dekker- you've probably heard me
    • My old squad sub-domain
Re: What would a GTI victory look like?
Let's start afresh,  no animosity. 
Clean slate.
Campaigns I've added my distinctiveness to-
- Blue Planet: Battle Captains
-Battle of Neptune
-Between the Ashes 2
-Blue planet: Age of Aquarius
-FOTG?
-Inferno R1
-Ribos: The aftermath / -Retreat from Deneb
-Sol: A History
-TBP EACW teaser
-Earth Brakiri war
-TBP Fortune Hunters (I think?)
-TBP Relic
-Trancsend (Possibly?)
-Uncharted Territory
-Vassagos Dirge
-War Machine
(Others lost to the mists of time and no discernible audit trail)

Your friendly Orestes tactical controller.

Secret bomb God.
That one time I got permabanned and got to read who was being bitxhy about me :p....
GO GO DEKKER RANGERSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
President of the Scooby Doo Model Appreciation Society
The only good Zod is a dead Zod
NEWGROUNDS COMEDY GOLD, UPDATED DAILY
http://badges.steamprofile.com/profile/default/steam/76561198011784807.png

 
Re: What would a GTI victory look like?
well if you want an incredibly thorough analysis of how a state willing to be completely ruthless in pursuit of military power above all else, up to and including mass slave labour of designated populations, functions, what kind of limitations promote that strategy and how effective it is, i recommend The Wages Of Destruction by Adam Tooze
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 
Re: What would a GTI victory look like?
I find reading about that sorta stuff kinda difficult.

Tbh i could only get halfway through Blitzed, in small part because the book oversells itself a bit*, but mostly because reading about fascist regimes just leaves me ****ing depressed. I can't imagine this is any better. Does it atleast have some gallows humour to lighten the mood?

* Blitzed has a tendency to attribute all of Hitler's and his regime's issues to the copious amounts of drugs being consumed, and that's a bit too much. Guns germs and steel does the same with its own hypothesis. I guess it's a marketing thing.

  
Re: What would a GTI victory look like?
Well it’s fairly clinical academic history, so no. Although the total contempt the author has for Speer and his bull**** really seeps through.
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 
Re: What would a GTI victory look like?
Well, bit the bullet and bought the ebook.

 
Re: What would a GTI victory look like?
Okay, started reading through that book, and I'm finding it very interesting. I particularly like how the opening pays attention to 1920s Germany's economic policy of attracting American investments and using those investments (and the poltiical leverage of the investors) to pay back (and delay) the reperations required for the versailles plan. This only got a brief mention in my middle school history class, and it's... pretty clever, all things considered.

Very good recommendation.