Hard Light Productions Forums

Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: StratComm on March 11, 2005, 02:11:25 am

Title: Orion!
Post by: StratComm on March 11, 2005, 02:11:25 am
It's done.  Grab it here (http://www.duke.edu/~cek6/bobs_orion.zip).  Credit naturally where credit is due; thanks Bobboau for another fabulous HTL upgrade.

(http://www.duke.edu/~cek6/orion1.jpg)
(http://www.duke.edu/~cek6/orion2.jpg)
(http://www.duke.edu/~cek6/orion3.jpg)

No, I didn't touch the tables.  It should be 100% compatible.  Go, test, and be merry ;)

(http://www.duke.edu/~cek6/orion4.jpg)
Title: Orion!
Post by: Grug on March 11, 2005, 03:50:52 am
oooo Purty.
You didn't post a link for the model file or anything though...

*Eagerly awaits to replay campaign with all hi-res stuff* :D
Title: Orion!
Post by: Bobboau on March 11, 2005, 04:58:39 am
yay!
I knew if I procrastonated long enough the problem (of finishing that model) would just go away :nod:
Title: Orion!
Post by: StratComm on March 11, 2005, 08:17:44 am
I figured you had better things to do than convert a mesh, such as bringing D3D shine goodness back to my Raedon card ;)

Quote
Originally posted by Grug
oooo Purty.
You didn't post a link for the model file or anything though...

*Eagerly awaits to replay campaign with all hi-res stuff* :D


That's because it's not finished until I get some debris made (or someone makes them for me).  The original mesh is here (http://dynamic4.gamespy.com/~freespace/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=557051).
Title: Orion!
Post by: KARMA on March 11, 2005, 11:59:53 am
Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau
yay!
I knew if I procrastonated long enough the problem (of finishing that model) would just go away :nod:

hahahahah:)

that's my same philosophy

unfourtunately it doesn't work always:blah:
Title: Orion!
Post by: pyro-manic on March 11, 2005, 01:24:48 pm
Awesome. Can't help, but it looks fantastic. :nod:
Title: Orion!
Post by: BlackDove on March 11, 2005, 02:47:31 pm
It looks dark :no:

More screenshots ;) :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes:
Title: Orion!
Post by: Goober5000 on March 11, 2005, 04:09:09 pm
Am I the only one who doesn't like Bobboau's Orion?

It just seems like a bunch of boxes rammed up against one another, not at all like an HTL upgrade.  Even his Deimos is better than this.
Title: Orion!
Post by: Unknown Target on March 11, 2005, 04:28:53 pm
The Orion is a bunch of boxes :p
Title: Orion!
Post by: Grimloq on March 11, 2005, 06:24:34 pm
...

100 meters longer is not acceptable :p it must line up exactly, unless you put an antennae on the front or something (ALA my hecate)
Title: Orion!
Post by: StratComm on March 11, 2005, 07:07:07 pm
Actually I am a tiny bit concerned, not because of the size, but because of the center location.  I worry somewhat that the model will appear out of place in some missions, most notibly when the Repulse trys to ram the Colossus.  100 meters should be ok there, unless the center is farther back than in the original model.  Nevertheless, I've got the scene set up now so I intend to scale it properly when I have debris.  This is more to prove that I'm close, since I'm not actually releasing the conversion yet.  I'm on break and away from my modeling computer, so I unfortunately can't touch it for a week.
Title: Orion!
Post by: Admiral Nelson on March 11, 2005, 07:57:53 pm
Thank you thank you for your effort!! :)
Title: Orion!
Post by: Goober5000 on March 11, 2005, 08:40:36 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Unknown Target
The Orion is a bunch of boxes :p
Not really... not like this.  This is a bunch of small boxes smashed against each other to create the illusion of a bunch of large boxes.
Title: Orion!
Post by: pyro-manic on March 11, 2005, 08:38:42 pm
Goober: What should it look like then?

EDIT: You and your damned flux capacitor....! :hopping:
Title: Orion!
Post by: Roanoke on March 12, 2005, 04:53:35 am
I hate doing lods and debris. :blah:
Title: Orion!
Post by: Kie99 on March 12, 2005, 01:40:11 pm
I don't like the top of the model, I think it looked better mostly flat.
Title: Orion!
Post by: TrashMan on March 12, 2005, 04:54:45 pm
Don't shorten it!... just check the axis...
Title: Orion!
Post by: Raptor on March 13, 2005, 06:05:43 am
I'm having trouble seeing any details...

...might just be the screen.

Mind posting a screenie that shows the Orion lit, rather than its dark side?
Title: Orion!
Post by: Fineus on March 13, 2005, 06:48:56 am
Can we see it a bit more lit up? It's quite dark in those missions... hard to decide whether I love it or hate it.
Title: Orion!
Post by: Kie99 on March 13, 2005, 06:58:29 am
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/kietotheworld/HI-polyOrion.jpg)
Title: Orion!
Post by: Turambar on March 13, 2005, 08:23:02 am
definitely not the most flattering shot there
Title: Orion!
Post by: TopAce on March 13, 2005, 08:43:48 am
*shakes head*
Title: Orion!
Post by: Flaser on March 13, 2005, 09:20:24 am
That ship definitly needs a new texture job - the current one utterly reduces the intricary of the model.
Title: Orion!
Post by: Ghost on March 14, 2005, 12:22:11 am
A new texture job would be nice.. and Bob's Orion looks sweet as **** when you see all of it without anything covering it up... even though there isn't any textures. Anyway, Strat, I'm looking forward to the completion... did you set all the turrets right? Because there's that one missing on her chin...
Title: Orion!
Post by: Ace on March 14, 2005, 12:39:40 am
I'm not a fan of Bob's Deimos or Orion.

The high poly Fenris, Faustus, etc. look nice. But the problem is instead of modelling the 'texture details' (despite the textures being tiled) instead they had to be totally revamped.

Oh well.
Title: Orion!
Post by: Kie99 on March 14, 2005, 12:59:33 am
My reskin looks better than before though
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/kietotheworld/Orion2Hipoly.jpg)

Original \/
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/kietotheworld/ADV3.jpg)
Title: Orion!
Post by: FireCrack on March 14, 2005, 02:26:19 am
sorry to say, but your reskin looks like a turd.
Title: Orion!
Post by: aldo_14 on March 14, 2005, 03:54:15 am
:rolleyes:

Little crude, but I'd have to agree and say I prefer the original.  I don't think you can really reskin stuff by just texture swapping nowadays, unless you redraw textures to fit the existing UV.

Like, for example, the badly stretched lights on the orion; at some points a single light stretches 100s of metres across the surface, because the old UV is different from what you'd need for the new texture.
Title: Orion!
Post by: Zarax on March 14, 2005, 04:11:28 am
Err... Am i the only one that got the impression the proportions are different?
It looks at least 20% larger than the original to me...
Title: Orion!
Post by: TopAce on March 14, 2005, 04:59:40 am
That's not a problem, FreeSpace is known about its big sizes. ;)
Title: Orion!
Post by: Unknown Target on March 14, 2005, 01:01:49 pm
Your reskin does indeed look like...something unbecoming of a star ship.
Title: Orion!
Post by: BlackDove on March 14, 2005, 01:26:37 pm
MY EYES. MY EYES!
Title: Orion!
Post by: Kie99 on March 14, 2005, 01:19:42 pm
:thepimp:   It looks a helluva lot better in FSO than in FS/ModelView.

Instead of hi-jacking this thread though could you please just :bump: the thread announcing the models' release.
Title: Orion!
Post by: StratComm on March 14, 2005, 02:08:51 pm
Darnit, no one is going to touch the debris, are they :rolleyes:.  I really can't get it released in a week anyway, but my plan was to finalize size and orientation when I get back to school and release it immediately thereafter.

And I've got the original in the scene with the new Orion, the proportions all match up almost exactly.  I had to move the turrets by maybe 10 meters in any direction to get them to line up properly on one part or another of the new hull.  I even calculated the size so it would line up in MAX, but apparently there was a small rounding error somewhere that was amplified to those 100 meters.  My intention is to have the thing within a fighter-length of the original.
Title: Orion!
Post by: Ghost on March 14, 2005, 03:23:30 pm
Well, Strat, tell me how to cut it up, and I'll cut it up.
Title: Orion!
Post by: Mongoose on March 14, 2005, 05:03:42 pm
Cool stuff, StratComm. I've been dying to fly alongside this model in-game since the first WIP screenshots. :D
Title: Orion!
Post by: Admiral Nelson on March 14, 2005, 06:20:13 pm
Stratcomm, do you also intend to add the missing radar antennae to the model?
Title: Orion!
Post by: FireCrack on March 14, 2005, 06:25:11 pm
Will you provide a link to where the model is so people can atleast atempt to cleave it up?
Title: Orion!
Post by: StratComm on March 14, 2005, 06:31:02 pm
I can't upload it any more than I can edit it right now.  It's the same Orion that Bob released as a hull-only WIP a while ago, cleave up that.  And I've added back the radar dishes :nod:
Title: Orion!
Post by: Admiral Nelson on March 14, 2005, 06:45:47 pm
Thanks a million!! :)
Title: Orion!
Post by: Bobboau on March 14, 2005, 06:46:23 pm
I did release a version with turrets, though they were just for show.
Title: Orion!
Post by: StratComm on March 14, 2005, 07:06:24 pm
I know, that's the one I was refering to.  Half the multiparts were grossly out of position though, so I want people to ignore them.  I'm using your turrets on the upgrade though, just repositioned them.  I really like what you did with the little side guns, too, makes the detail much better.
Title: Orion!
Post by: Kosh on March 16, 2005, 01:32:27 am
I think that Kie's images make it look a lot more squished than it really is........
Title: Orion!
Post by: FireCrack on March 16, 2005, 01:45:27 am
Let me clarify, do you have a link to the thread where bob released his orion, because i cant find it.
Title: Orion!
Post by: StratComm on March 16, 2005, 12:18:38 pm
Oh, is that all?  That link has been available in the "HTL Status v2" thread at the top of this forum the whole time.  Anyway, it's in this thread (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,27491.0.html), page 4 IIRC.
Title: Orion!
Post by: SadisticSid on March 16, 2005, 02:39:34 pm
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v36/SadisticSid/03ed19cd.jpg)

I think the model suits EA textures better (the Auriga is a double hangared Orion with EA turrets instead of the old style ones)
Title: Orion!
Post by: aldo_14 on March 16, 2005, 02:54:29 pm
:rolleyes:

IMO that's pretty fugly.  No offense to whoever made the EA textures, but it doesn't look right to me.
Title: Orion!
Post by: SadisticSid on March 16, 2005, 03:00:15 pm
Well it's just the 'original' HTL Orion with EA textures applied in place of the old ones. Since Stratt's done a better job of the texturing the model with his version, I hope ours will look a bit better as well if we do the same again with our textures.
Title: Orion!
Post by: aldo_14 on March 16, 2005, 03:05:35 pm
I think it's largely due to a lack of contrast in terms of shade.
Title: Orion!
Post by: StratComm on March 20, 2005, 02:49:20 pm
Release time :)

Bob's HTL Orion v1.1 - now with glowpoint goodness (http://www.duke.edu/~cek6/bobs_orion.zip).  All POF data created specially for this model and everything should be set up to work correctly the first time around with no table modification, i.e. it's plug-and-play.  Debris included at no extra charge :).

Oh, and it was the right length all along, but the lowest LOD was offset by about 200 meters and made modelview read it out as longer than it was.  It's fixed now but the actual length is and has always been within 2 meters of the original.
Title: Orion!
Post by: FireCrack on March 20, 2005, 03:08:09 pm
HURRAH!!!

All hail stratComm!!!


(and mabye bob, juist a bit :rolleyes: )
Title: Orion!
Post by: StratComm on March 20, 2005, 03:19:24 pm
Oh, I'm going to add runway glowpoints eventually; should they flow in or out of the bay?
Title: Orion!
Post by: Zarax on March 20, 2005, 03:28:38 pm
In the bay would look be more logical imho
Title: Orion!
Post by: Bobboau on March 20, 2005, 03:33:04 pm
out is what was seen in the comand breifings.
Title: Orion!
Post by: FireCrack on March 20, 2005, 03:34:39 pm
I also say out. Looks neater.


Also would be nice to have that glowing strip thing on the runway, would probably require a new seperate runway texture though.
Title: Orion!
Post by: Kie99 on March 20, 2005, 04:34:55 pm
The second LOD looks like the original orion minus turrets.  That shows progress!
Title: Orion!
Post by: StratComm on March 20, 2005, 06:28:28 pm
Yeah I was an idiot and stuck the low LOD turrets on the wrong LOD level.  I may fix that eventually.
Title: Orion!
Post by: StratComm on March 20, 2005, 10:56:41 pm
That glowing strip on the runway is absolutely not worth the texture memory costs it'd take to make it glow the way it should.  What I've done with glowpoints should be close enough.  I didn't go overboard with the things, by the way, just put in a bunch on the runway and a few around the dockpoint.  The rest of the ship looks glowy enough without them.  Link updated, same place and I'll add it to the first page.
Title: Orion!
Post by: Grug on March 20, 2005, 11:35:44 pm
Excellents.

Thank you Bob and StratComm. :D
Title: Orion!
Post by: FireCrack on March 21, 2005, 12:07:02 am
I was thinking you could use a 1x32 or somthing texture of just a dot moving down and tile that across the runway.

And yes, the orion does appear unnaturaly bright for some reason.
Title: Orion!
Post by: WMCoolmon on March 21, 2005, 12:08:43 am
Actually, I had an interesting animated texture idea while fooling around with time compression (where animations start to look jerky and bad). Add into the engine the ability to display two frames at once, but gradually fade between them (by varying the alpha channel). For runway lights and such, this would be perfect as you could simply have one frame per light set on at a time.

It looks like the Orion has 18 lights, arranged in sets of 2, so 9 frames wouldn't be too bad.
Title: Orion!
Post by: Ulala on March 24, 2005, 02:14:34 am
I feel like it needs more blue lights for some reason. Weird. :blah: :doubt:
Title: Orion!
Post by: wolfdog on March 25, 2005, 02:52:59 am
This thing needs screenshots, Badly :)

(http://www.xs4all.nl/~joost5/bastion/bastion.jpg)
(http://www.xs4all.nl/~joost5/bastion/bastion2.jpg)
(http://www.xs4all.nl/~joost5/bastion/bastion3.jpg)
(http://www.xs4all.nl/~joost5/bastion/bastion5.jpg)
(http://www.xs4all.nl/~joost5/bastion/bastion6.jpg)
(http://www.xs4all.nl/~joost5/bastion/bastion7.jpg)

I realise those are over 3MB together.... So if it's too much, please say so and I'll make them plain links

oh, and the High-res versions:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~joost5/bastion/bastion2high.jpg
http://www.xs4all.nl/~joost5/bastion/bastion3high.jpg
http://www.xs4all.nl/~joost5/bastion/bastion5high.jpg
http://www.xs4all.nl/~joost5/bastion/bastion6high.jpg
http://www.xs4all.nl/~joost5/bastion/bastion7high.jpg
Title: Orion!
Post by: NGTM-1R on March 25, 2005, 05:02:41 am
Excuse me while I "ACK! UGLY!" over those turret textures...
Title: Orion!
Post by: DaBrain on March 25, 2005, 06:54:22 am
Please use Lightspeed's shinemap pack. It features my high-res Orion maps.
Title: Orion!
Post by: wolfdog on March 25, 2005, 07:09:10 am
I've tried those... but they don't fit with the lighting in the mission in which took those screenshots...  Could redo the turret screenies with them though
Title: Orion!
Post by: Bobboau on March 25, 2005, 07:37:52 am
you can realy see the nameplates in those images, notice how they blend in perfictly with the rest of the ship, that's how nameplates should be implemented, useing an alpha blended map.
Title: Orion!
Post by: Grimloq on March 25, 2005, 02:28:42 pm
Very nice indeed *Downloads*
Title: Orion!
Post by: DaBrain on March 25, 2005, 03:08:15 pm
Quote
Originally posted by wolfdog
I've tried those... but they don't fit with the lighting in the mission in which took those screenshots...  Could redo the turret screenies with them though


Could you explain this a bit more detailed, so I am able to fix it?
Title: Orion!
Post by: Galemp on March 25, 2005, 03:13:53 pm
Strat, I remapped Bob's turrets; I can send them to you, or you can send me the MAX scene and I'll reconvert.
Title: Orion!
Post by: StratComm on March 25, 2005, 03:59:41 pm
Send them over and I'll plop them on.  The glowpoints aren't imbedded in the scene but rather manually added, so it's going to take me a bit to get them replaced.
Title: Orion!
Post by: pyro-manic on March 25, 2005, 04:26:43 pm
It's beautiful. Fantastic work. :yes:

Highlights! Highlights!
Title: Orion!
Post by: wolfdog on March 25, 2005, 04:47:25 pm
Quote
Originally posted by DaBrain


Could you explain this a bit more detailed, so I am able to fix it?


Not sure if I can explain it any better, I think it's merely a matter of personal taste, but IMO, the stock textures look better with the amount of lighing used in these screenshots, as long as you don't get close that is:D

some screenshots for comparision:

in this screenshot, lot of the detail get's lost... (taken from a distance)
http://www.xs4all.nl/~joost5/bastion/bastionhighmaps.jpg

More up-close, looks a lot better:)
http://www.xs4all.nl/~joost5/bastion/bastionhighmaps2.jpg
http://www.xs4all.nl/~joost5/bastion/bastionhighmaps3.jpg

This is just.. messed up... (taken from a distance, with strong lighting)
http://www.xs4all.nl/~joost5/bastion/bastionhighmaps4.jpg

The turrets look much better though:)
http://www.xs4all.nl/~joost5/bastion/bastionhighmaps5.jpg

So, with strong lighting, and/or more distant shots/views, the detail get's lost...:( :confused:  (and no, it's not only because of LOD's. because with the stock textures, it's not happening, at least not this strong)
Title: Orion!
Post by: DaBrain on March 25, 2005, 05:26:03 pm
So the shinemap is the problem?


I'll take a look at Lightspeed's shinemap. It should be ok though.


Edit: Try this: http://www.8ung.at/dabrain/orion_test.rar


It's only a test, but tell me if it looks any better.
Title: Orion!
Post by: Taristin on March 25, 2005, 09:52:40 pm
I have to say, I really don't like this Orion.
Title: Orion!
Post by: FireCrack on March 25, 2005, 10:42:34 pm
mine looks fine normaly.


But anyways, i have one thing to say, tripple barreled turrets should not be shooting beams, it doesnt make sense! beams should be shot from beam-discs.
Title: Orion!
Post by: StratComm on March 26, 2005, 02:13:28 am
That's got nothing to do with this model.  :v: assigned a beam to the underslung turret and so a beam is there, no matter what we may have to say about it.
Title: Orion!
Post by: Singh on March 26, 2005, 03:59:31 am
SWEET! Fly-through hangars!!! :D
Title: Orion!
Post by: TopAce on March 26, 2005, 04:23:33 am
Quote
Originally posted by FireCrack
mine looks fine normaly.


But anyways, i have one thing to say, tripple barreled turrets should not be shooting beams, it doesnt make sense! beams should be shot from beam-discs.


Blame :v: for it. They assigned beams to multi-part turrets.
As far as that Orion is concerned, it's too different from the original. Why is the nameplate there, not on the other side?
Title: Orion!
Post by: wolfdog on March 26, 2005, 05:49:50 am
It's on both sides.....
Title: Orion!
Post by: TopAce on March 26, 2005, 06:42:02 am
Oh? Barely noticeable from the pics.
Title: Orion!
Post by: Flaser on March 26, 2005, 06:46:25 am
I still hold that this ships needs a new texture job to bring out the potential in the model - 'till then it will look weird and substandard.
Title: Orion!
Post by: TopAce on March 26, 2005, 06:46:51 am
Greyish, metalish textures would fit this model the best.
Title: Orion!
Post by: StratComm on March 26, 2005, 12:32:46 pm
But Greyish, metal textures would not fit the Orion.  Quite frankly I don't see why everyone is complaining about the textures, they are an almost identical match to the original except where they had to be changed for detailing reasons.  Are they perfect?  No, of course not.  But given the geometry and the maps that the Orion uses, I don't think they can be applied any better.
Title: Orion!
Post by: Ghost on March 26, 2005, 01:46:32 pm
I don't have any beef with most of the texture stuff... however... someone needs to do something about the weird bits where the spikey things start.... they're all stretched out lengthwise and squished topwise. It's hard to describe, but it sucks.
Title: Orion!
Post by: Bobboau on March 26, 2005, 03:54:54 pm
I never got quite done with the spikey biuts, if someone wants to do something with them that would be great.
Title: Orion!
Post by: StratComm on March 26, 2005, 04:29:59 pm
I hadn't even noticed those.  I'll fix them when I get those retextured turrets.
Title: Orion!
Post by: Flaser on March 26, 2005, 04:30:13 pm
Quote
Originally posted by StratComm
But Greyish, metal textures would not fit the Orion.  Quite frankly I don't see why everyone is complaining about the textures, they are an almost identical match to the original except where they had to be changed for detailing reasons.  Are they perfect?  No, of course not.  But given the geometry and the maps that the Orion uses, I don't think they can be applied any better.



That's exactly the problem: the textures are identical while the model is not.

You can't use the same generic armor texture for all those added parts - it would look weird and tacked on geometry.
You need new textures to make the additions seem useful or just real - make it so they look like parts with a reason and therefore their texture should be different.

Beside IMHO those generic armor textures are way overused - especially the blue texture with lots of lights.

TopAce I disagree - the purplish blue paintjob is what sets the Orion apart - though it would be indeed better if it were properly armored in a sensible manner (not this overtiling) and then painted.
Title: Orion!
Post by: StratComm on March 26, 2005, 04:44:44 pm
The model really is close to identical though.  The purplish lots-o-lights map is actually less-used than it was on the original orion, and almost every region that was blue before is still predominately blue; every place that was primarily lights is still primarily predominantly lights, and everywhere that was the purple lights tile still is as well. There's a little more in the way of cut-out places and such, but everything's about the same nonetheless.  The maps are tiled more, though, but that is something I can easily correct.  As for added parts, they look more like layers of armor than anything else.  Maybe it's the trim; Bob kept the number of maps to an absolute minimum wherever he could, so the trim is using the same light strips that line the runway texture.  I also don't like the idea of adding another texture into the mix, simply because I frankly don't think it would fit (unless it was to replace the trim.  But that's neither here nor there).
Title: Orion!
Post by: Grimloq on March 26, 2005, 06:36:45 pm
Methinks you should UV map it...

I know, I know, easier said than done...
Title: Orion!
Post by: Taristin on March 26, 2005, 06:42:24 pm
Nah, it's easily done, too. Just a pain in the ass to map.
Title: Orion!
Post by: DaBrain on March 26, 2005, 07:15:09 pm
Nah, the mapping is not that hard, but texturing it close to the original will be hard.
Title: Orion!
Post by: Grimloq on March 26, 2005, 07:22:19 pm
*Points at Da-B* That's what I meant. Copy & Paste doesn't work as well as you might guess...
Title: Orion!
Post by: FireCrack on March 27, 2005, 03:44:01 am
Quote
Originally posted by TopAce


Blame :v: for it. They assigned beams to multi-part turrets.
As far as that Orion is concerned, it's too different from the original. Why is the nameplate there, not on the other side?


but does that mean we should replicate :v:'s flaw?


I'm not saying the model should be redone because that is'nt worth the effort unless it's being redone anyways.
Title: Orion!
Post by: TopAce on March 27, 2005, 04:01:22 am
Placing beams to somewhere else impacts the gameplay badly.
Title: Orion!
Post by: WMCoolmon on March 27, 2005, 04:05:21 am
Just redo the turret so it has a cauldron or mirror or something in place of the guns.
Title: Orion!
Post by: FireCrack on March 27, 2005, 06:05:08 pm
^exactly what i'm saying. It's obvious that V wouldve put a beamdisc there if the model was new or they werent so lasy as not to rework it.
Title: Orion!
Post by: TopAce on March 28, 2005, 02:50:34 am
I can't have been the problem. If mounting beams on Old ships were possible, it's also possible that they change some turrets completely. How many Orions did they have? At most 5-6.
Title: Orion!
Post by: Flaser on March 28, 2005, 05:33:48 am
5-6 Orions at most?
Excuse me, but where did you get that figure? It seems quite unlikely.
Title: Orion!
Post by: Sheepy on March 28, 2005, 07:48:11 am
It looks bigger and chunkier than the original, which i like. Its impossing now, like a destroyer should be. :grin:
Title: Orion!
Post by: aldo_14 on March 28, 2005, 07:59:10 am
Quote
Originally posted by Flaser
5-6 Orions at most?
Excuse me, but where did you get that figure? It seems quite unlikely.


Not impossible.... it's never really made clear how many destroyers the GTA / PVN / GTVA actually had/have.  If you put it at 1 per fleet (the flagship), and IIRc there are about 12 fleets mentioned for the GTVA (lots of ambiguity over battlegroups and fleets, and whether Vasudan fleets count towards the total vs the Terran...), then 5-6 isn't too implausible.  Offhand, I think we only see about that many in FS2; the Repulse, Bastion, Messana and Carthage, plus a few mentioned in cbriefs by icon.
Title: Orion!
Post by: StratComm on March 28, 2005, 08:29:29 am
As alpha 1 you destroy at least two yourself besides the Repulse.  And there are at least four other destroyers mentioned by briefings that are presumably Orions, as most are indicated as such by their CBani.
Title: Orion!
Post by: aldo_14 on March 28, 2005, 08:35:11 am
There is?  

Oh well.......been that long since I played FS2.  I'll dig up Sandwiches definitive list, that'll sort it out.

EDIT; yep :)

http://www.brainzipper.com/fs2/notes/ship_list.txt

It's 8.  And only 2 Hecates.

+0-5 destroyers of unknown type.

EDIT2; although, do the Neried and Bastion count?  It's not clear if they're in-service or not; my suspicion would be that they do, but it's maybe worth considering.

anyways, there are at least 6 Orions and almost certainly more.
Title: Orion!
Post by: karajorma on March 28, 2005, 09:50:22 am
Are you counting all the NTF Orions in that? They were in service in the GTVA until 18 months before the start of FS2 and almost certainly would have been upgraded too.
Title: Orion!
Post by: StratComm on March 28, 2005, 10:43:35 am
Yes, that's counting NTF Orions.  The Repulse and the other two you destroy are in that count.
Title: Orion!
Post by: Woolie Wool on March 28, 2005, 11:45:52 am
I think it's awesome, so there.:p:ha:
Title: Orion!
Post by: TopAce on March 28, 2005, 12:43:46 pm
I know this number is unbelievable, but this is the truth. Yes, the GTVA needs more destroyers! Perhaps money was in building the Colossus and bringing new designs into the GTVA during the Reconstruction period. Who wants to spend money on an obsolete destroyer class if there is a new one available?
Title: Orion!
Post by: StratComm on March 28, 2005, 01:06:09 pm
In terms of raw firepower, I'd actually take an Orion over a Hecate any day.  That's why the Orion is used as the yardstick for the colossus's  armament; it is the second most powerful weapon in the Terran arsenal.
Title: Orion!
Post by: karajorma on March 28, 2005, 01:07:43 pm
Quote
Originally posted by StratComm
Yes, that's counting NTF Orions.  The Repulse and the other two you destroy are in that count.


All the NTF's destroyers were Orions (it's never stated once that they have a single Hecate and the fact that Koth is on an Orion rather than a Hecate also seem to point to that.

So the Orions lost by the NTF in the FS2 alone are.  

Quote
   NTD Jacobus
     Does not appear in any missions
     NTD Orion class destroyer*
     Destroyed at Deneb jump node in Alpha Centauri* by 11th Vasudan Battle Group*

   NTD Normandy
     Does not appear in any missions
     NTD Orion class destroyer*
     Destroyed in Epsilon Pegasi during sm1-08

   NTD Repulse
     NTD Orion class destroyer
     CO: Rear Admiral Koth
     Led an attack on the GTVA 6th Terran Fleet in Epsilon Pegasi between sm1-07 and sm1-08
     Arrived in Epsilon Pegasi in sm1-10 to take out the GTC Rampart
       Attempted to ram the GTVA Colossus after refusing to surrender
       Destroyed by GTVA Colossus

   NTD Andronicus
     NTD Orion class destroyer*
     Does not appear in any missions
     Destroyed near Epsilon Pegasi jump node in Polaris by GTVA Colossus between sm1-10 and sm2-01

   NTD Uhuru
     NTD Orion class destroyer
     Attempts to reach Knossos portal in Gamma Draconis in sm2-04
       Destroyed by GVD Hedetet, GTCv York, GVC Unut, GVC Warwick, 5 GTSG Mjolnir RBCs and 64th Raptors Squadron at the Capella node

   NTD Vindicator
     NTD Orion class destroyer
     Attempts to reach Knossos portal in Gamma Draconis in sm2-05
       Destroyed by GVCv Hyksos, GTCv Diomedes and 64th Raptors squadron in Gamma Draconis

   NTD Vasa
     NTD Orion class destroyer
     Does not appear in any missions
     Attempts to reach Knossos portal in Gamma Draconis between sm2-03 and sm2-04
       Destroyed by GTVA Colossus and other GTVA warships in Capella

   NTD Cyrene
     NTD Orion class destroyer*
     Defended Sirius from GTVA 11th and 13th battle groups between sm1-04 and sm1-08
       Held off the 13th Vasudan Battle Group at the Deneb jump node in Sirius during M-SB (M)
     Destroyed by GVD Psamtik and 13th Battle Group between sm1-10 and sm2-01

   NTD Alsace
     NTD Orion class destroyer
     Dispatched by NTF forces from Regulus to assist in the attack on Sirius III in M-04b
       Destroyed by two GTVA fighter and bomber wings near the Regulus jump node


That doesn't include whatever they lost during the other 18 months of the war.
Title: Orion!
Post by: TopAce on March 28, 2005, 01:52:27 pm
Nice list. Shame on me that I don't remember the NTD Alsace.
Title: Orion!
Post by: Goober5000 on March 28, 2005, 04:39:34 pm
It's entirely possible that the NTF lost very few destroyers before FS2 started.  They were on the verge of winning at that point (see the debriefing for mission 1).

I like to think there was at most one Orion per fleet during FS1 -- c.f. especially the FS Ref. Bible description of the Orion.  And I think it's safe to assume there's at most one Hecate per fleet during FS2, which is supported by one or two Orions.

The NTF has only six fleets but probably has more ships per fleet (including destroyers) than a normal GTVA fleet because of all the defections.
Title: Orion!
Post by: Luigi30 on March 28, 2005, 04:41:27 pm
Did Alpha 1 ever destroy an Orion? I can't remember.
Title: Orion!
Post by: Woolie Wool on March 28, 2005, 04:43:04 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Luigi30
Did Alpha 1 ever destroy an Orion? I can't remember.

NTD Uhuru.
Title: Orion!
Post by: StratComm on March 28, 2005, 04:51:12 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Goober5000
The NTF has only six fleets but probably has more ships per fleet (including destroyers) than a normal GTVA fleet because of all the defections.


That's a point of interest, actually.  I'd imagine it would be more than a little difficult for a ship with a crew of 10,000 to up and defect.  I'd imagine that most of the ships (by volume, not just numbers) were cruisers and corvettes, because assembling a loyal crew would be much easier on ships of that size.
Title: Orion!
Post by: Trivial Psychic on March 28, 2005, 05:49:40 pm
I found a minor problem with this model.  There appears to be a tiny transparent section on the right hand side of the model, towards the rear, behind the fighterbay.  \/ See below \/

(http://www3.sympatico.ca/daniel.topps/SeeThroughOrion.jpg)
Title: Orion!
Post by: karajorma on March 29, 2005, 11:45:25 am
Quote
Originally posted by TopAce
Nice list. Shame on me that I don't remember the NTD Alsace.


Opps. Accidently included that one. Look a the mission number in which it appears :D
Title: Orion!
Post by: Taristin on March 29, 2005, 12:04:58 pm
lol. Rebel intercept counts as canon now, eh?  The modified one of it, to boot! :D
Title: Orion!
Post by: TopAce on March 29, 2005, 02:08:40 pm
Quote
Originally posted by karajorma


Opps. Accidently included that one. Look a the mission number in which it appears :D


Oh, Multiplayer. I should still remember it, I actually played that mission twice or three times.
Title: Orion!
Post by: Ulala on March 31, 2005, 02:36:56 am
I wonder if you darkened the textures a lil', would it give it a little more of a military look/feel?
Title: Orion!
Post by: WMCoolmon on March 31, 2005, 02:38:16 am
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/kietotheworld/HI-polyOrion.jpg)

Note the yellow...thing...going through the square surrounded by lights over the run way. Why is that there? It transitions from the blue to the yellow in several places, so it looks ugly. And the square is one of the more 'trademark' parts of the Orion (IMHO).
Title: Orion!
Post by: StratComm on March 31, 2005, 11:20:08 am
That yellow band was a detail that Bob added in; it's actually a raised panel rather than a cutout or whatever it appears to be.  I agree though that it breaks continuity, and I actually have changed it so that the square is unbroken.  Again, I'll commit that fix with the others.

Ulala: for the last time: I am not, I repeat, am not changing the textures other than select placement.  It's an Orion, first and foremost, and should inherently use the same maps as the original.
Title: Orion!
Post by: StratComm on March 31, 2005, 11:28:15 pm
Is this better?

(http://www.duke.edu/~cek6/orion5.jpg)

Zip updated; first post or here (http://www.duke.edu/~cek6/bobs_orion.zip)
Title: Orion!
Post by: Ulala on March 31, 2005, 11:43:23 pm
Quote
Originally posted by StratComm

Ulala: for the last time: I am not, I repeat, am not changing the textures other than select placement.  It's an Orion, first and foremost, and should inherently use the same maps as the original.


I wasn't asking you to, it was just a suggestion in response to the posts before about the texture scheme. Besides, it's your work, so it should be the way you think is best.
Title: Orion!
Post by: Knight Templar on April 01, 2005, 12:35:28 am
Hey, that's hot.
Title: Orion!
Post by: StratComm on April 01, 2005, 12:41:52 am
I'll be honest, I think th'biggest improvement was cuttin' down on th'tiling.  The blue map was really overtiled in Bobboau's original, an' I think a lot o' th'texture complaints were comin' from just that.  Galemp requested th'scene, so he may have an update a little later, but it'll just be texturin' (and maybe some better radar dishes).  It can hie in th'VP as th'version posted above.
Title: Orion!
Post by: BlackDove on April 01, 2005, 02:20:03 am
I think we should ban this model for being too awesome.
Title: Orion!
Post by: Ghost on April 01, 2005, 02:26:43 am
May I ask as t'why thou art all usin' pirate language? For sooth.


EDIT:: ahhhh what th'hell... what kind o' crazyness be this? April Fools, I'm assuming?
Title: Orion!
Post by: neo_hermes on April 01, 2005, 02:34:25 am
you assumed correct dear ghost...the pirate language is this years april fools.
Title: Orion!
Post by: Ghost on April 01, 2005, 02:39:15 am
Nuts to that. Is that why HLP was down earlier? So they could get this in?
Title: Orion!
Post by: StratComm on April 01, 2005, 06:36:46 am
No, that was unrelated.
Title: Orion!
Post by: Ulala on April 03, 2005, 05:18:20 am
Pirate's aside, looks good. :yes:
Title: Orion!
Post by: WMCoolmon on April 03, 2005, 05:45:20 am
Yeah, the Orion's in the mediaVPs, which means that the final versions will be online sometime soon.

Good stuff. :yes:
Title: Orion!
Post by: starfox on April 03, 2005, 05:47:13 am
The beauty of a ship is more beautiful then ever !
Title: Orion!
Post by: Mr_Maniac on April 03, 2005, 07:35:01 am
I've a little error with the Orion...
Well... There's a "thing" (looks like a rock?!?!) attached...
And it doesn't matter if I re-install it or delete the ibx-file...
I used the newest cvs-tree-build (03 April 2005 - ~14:30 CET)

Here are two images:

First one (http://home.arcor.de/mr_maniac/Bilder/OError1.png)
Second one (http://home.arcor.de/mr_maniac/Bilder/OError2.png)
Title: Orion!
Post by: Kie99 on April 03, 2005, 08:07:17 am
Have you tried re-downloading it?
Title: Orion!
Post by: Mr_Maniac on April 03, 2005, 09:09:26 am
Unfortunately this doesn't help, too...

Redownloaded it, unzipped it several times, deleted the cache (*.ibx)...
But still the same, scary, big "rock" is attached ;)
Title: Orion!
Post by: Admiral Nelson on April 03, 2005, 10:01:20 am
Quote
Originally posted by StratComm
Galemp requested th'scene, so he may have an update a little later, but it'll just be texturin' (and maybe some better radar dishes).  It can hie in th'VP as th'version posted above.


:yes: :yes:  I thought it might sound churlish to ask for better radar dishes, so I'm glad to see that you are already thinking about upgrading them. The textures on them don't really seem radar like, and they are a very basic shape. Thanks again for all your effort in bringing this model to life!
Title: Orion!
Post by: Mr_Maniac on April 03, 2005, 12:37:39 pm
Okay... The "rock"-thing happens under Windows, too...
Title: Orion!
Post by: Kie99 on April 03, 2005, 12:52:54 pm
Any VPs installed?  It looks like the spacehunk remapped.
Title: Orion!
Post by: Kie99 on April 03, 2005, 12:53:38 pm
The orion is a bit weird anyway:

Quote
For over 30 years, the GTD Orion class was the largest ship in the Terran-Vasudan armada. Over two kilometers in length, bristling with dozens :wtf: of death-dealing turrets, the Orion is as awesome in repose as it is in battle. All GVTA:wtf: Orions have been retrofitted with the latest anti-warship beam weapons, as well as flak:wtf: and AAA turrets for dealing with fighters and bombers. The Orion's cavernous hanger bays easily accommodate more than two dozen fighter or bomber wings.
Title: Orion!
Post by: Luigi30 on April 03, 2005, 01:31:40 pm
Death-dealing? Didn't kill the Colossus...
Title: Orion!
Post by: Mr_Maniac on April 03, 2005, 01:30:47 pm
Well.. I HAVE media-VPs installed... All media-VPs (3.6.6beta)
Title: Orion!
Post by: StratComm on April 03, 2005, 01:46:03 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Mr_Maniac
I've a little error with the Orion...
Well... There's a "thing" (looks like a rock?!?!) attached...
And it doesn't matter if I re-install it or delete the ibx-file...
I used the newest cvs-tree-build (03 April 2005 - ~14:30 CET)

Here are two images:

First one (http://home.arcor.de/mr_maniac/Bilder/OError1.png)
Second one (http://home.arcor.de/mr_maniac/Bilder/OError2.png)


Can you do two things for me?  Try it under an older build, first, and if it still happens then get me some more screenshots of the specific points at which the "rock" connects to the ship.  There's a very small chance this is a triangulation error gone horribly wrong, and since I can't reproduce it I'll need to see exactly where the error is originating.
Title: Orion!
Post by: Blitzerland on April 03, 2005, 01:47:46 pm
Quote
death-dealing? Didn't kill the Colossus...


DUH.

Death-dealing to everything else, though. :p
Title: Orion!
Post by: Kie99 on April 03, 2005, 02:19:44 pm
Didn't kill the Sathanas

*ducks*
Title: Orion!
Post by: DamoclesX on April 04, 2005, 04:35:21 am
Have you done these textures from scratch?

Just wondering, it looks very nice.
Title: Orion!
Post by: aldo_14 on April 04, 2005, 04:38:55 am
I think he's using the textures DaBrain made, based off of the originals.

(which is arguably a harder thing to do than making them from scratch)
Title: Orion!
Post by: StratComm on April 04, 2005, 04:47:15 am
It'll use whatever textures you had on the old Orion.  I've got mv_textures installed, so they are the Lightspeed/DaBrain upgrades.  The biggest difference between the earlier shots and that last one was that I halved the tiling on the maps; made it look tons better.
Title: Orion!
Post by: Mr_Maniac on April 04, 2005, 07:09:46 am
Here are seven screenshots...
But I fear that they're almost useless...
It is VERY hard to see, where this thing connects...

The screenshots are big (most are over 1 MB), because I wanted to bring them in the best visual quality...

Screenshot 1 (http://home.arcor.de/mr_maniac/Bilder/OrionE01.png)
Screenshot 2 (http://home.arcor.de/mr_maniac/Bilder/OrionE02.png)
Screenshot 3 (http://home.arcor.de/mr_maniac/Bilder/OrionE03.png)
Screenshot 4 (http://home.arcor.de/mr_maniac/Bilder/OrionE04.png)
Screenshot 5 (http://home.arcor.de/mr_maniac/Bilder/OrionE05.png)
Screenshot 6 (http://home.arcor.de/mr_maniac/Bilder/OrionE06.png)
Screenshot 7 (http://home.arcor.de/mr_maniac/Bilder/OrionE07.png)
Title: Orion!
Post by: Mr_Maniac on April 04, 2005, 09:23:13 am
Okay... Now I've been able to test the Orion with three different builds:
fs2_open_C20050318
fs2_open_C20050226
fs2_open_3.6.5

On fs2_open_3.6.5 it looks right... But on any other build (ok ok... I've only tested two other builds) it does have this big rock-thing...
Title: Orion!
Post by: StratComm on April 04, 2005, 01:46:50 pm
This may be a bug.  I'm using a build slightly older than 2-26, but nothing should have changed to make this a problem.  I'll download a newer version and take a look.


EDIT: 20050318 works perfectly for me.  There may be a problem with the ibx generated out of the bleeding edge build; kill it and try running an older build again.
Title: Orion!
Post by: WMCoolmon on April 04, 2005, 02:28:02 pm
IBX files are only generated once; after the first try, the same ibx file should be used no matter what build is run.
Title: Orion!
Post by: Mr_Maniac on April 04, 2005, 02:53:14 pm
I deleted the ibx for every build...
It doesn't matter...
Very strange...
Title: Orion!
Post by: StratComm on April 04, 2005, 03:01:08 pm
Quote
Originally posted by WMCoolmon
IBX files are only generated once; after the first try, the same ibx file should be used no matter what build is run.


Which is why I wanted to make sure it was getting deleted when he tried older builds :)  I doubt it's a problem with ibx generation, but I thought I'd give it a go nonetheless.  I'm really leaning toward a corrupt download; does the model look ok in FRED?  There shouldn't be any points out there for the model to extend to, so I'm a bit clueless as to why that's happening.  Looks a little like the classic Shards-o-Death behavior, though I was under the impression that bug had been squashed long ago.

Somewhat unrelated, but is the blob on the side solid?  Can you ram it like you could any other part of the ship?
Title: Orion!
Post by: Mr_Maniac on April 04, 2005, 04:03:55 pm
Okay... I will try the model in FRED, when I'm in Windows (maybe tomorrow)...

This "Thing" isn't solid... I can fly through it...
Title: Orion!
Post by: Cobra on April 05, 2005, 07:02:46 pm
how can you call it a "thing"?

i'm gonna try this out...
Title: Orion!
Post by: StratComm on April 05, 2005, 08:51:01 pm
The "thing" isn't the Orion, it's something that his machine seems to tack on.  Mr_Manic, do I interpret from your post that this is happening in a linux build?  This may be a bug if so.
Title: Orion!
Post by: Galemp on April 05, 2005, 10:52:43 pm
Well, I've submitted my remap for Strat to convert as well. I thought
a model this detailed could benefit from some texture variety; many
areas were also painstakingly UV mapped to take advantage of the
texture map instead of simply tiling them.
Title: Orion!
Post by: Cobra on April 05, 2005, 11:01:07 pm
i normally don't say this about the orion (my fav capship, even with the newer, sleeker, more powerful ships.], but that variant of orions is HORRIBLE. i don't like the way it's modelled.
Title: Orion!
Post by: DamoclesX on April 05, 2005, 11:02:41 pm
I like the textures, that would have taken a while to do those.
Title: Orion!
Post by: Kie99 on April 06, 2005, 04:23:55 am
nice....

But there's a GTD Galatea logo on the right.
Title: Orion!
Post by: BlackDove on April 06, 2005, 06:50:48 am
The pointless comments aside.

Galemp, you ****ing WIN.
Title: Orion!
Post by: Col. Fishguts on April 06, 2005, 10:35:45 am
FUC*ING AWESOME :yes:

Galemp's version looks even bigger and more detailed, even if it's "just" remapped.
Title: Orion!
Post by: Psychoo on April 06, 2005, 11:07:00 am
Good model, but I prefer the old, low-poly one. Hull builded from few huge blocks fits Orion more than large number of smaller 'boxes' IMHO.
Title: Orion!
Post by: TopAce on April 06, 2005, 11:23:51 am
The turrets are ugly. But even though I wrote this, the model itself is superb. Two thumbs up, at least

:yes: :yes:
Title: Orion!
Post by: NGTM-1R on April 06, 2005, 01:09:59 pm
I'm secretly scheming to add the new turrets to my old Orion...
Title: Orion!
Post by: Woolie Wool on April 06, 2005, 01:42:14 pm
*drools*
Title: Orion!
Post by: Admiral Nelson on April 06, 2005, 04:29:27 pm
That is just outstanding! :)
Title: Orion!
Post by: Turnsky on April 06, 2005, 06:07:40 pm
i gotta give this the photoshop treatment (read, make sweet eyecandy out of) when i get home.
Title: Orion!
Post by: Ghost on April 06, 2005, 06:38:12 pm
OOHHHHHHHH SHIIIIIIIIIT... let me download!!! *breaks down and cries*
Title: Orion!
Post by: Taristin on April 06, 2005, 07:12:59 pm
Galemp's still has UV messings on the antennae masts on the bottom.
Title: Orion!
Post by: BlackDove on April 06, 2005, 07:21:01 pm
Would someone please [size=999]HIGHLIGHT[/size] this beautiful piece of Galemp's work?
Title: Orion!
Post by: FireCrack on April 06, 2005, 07:29:36 pm
^Lends BlackDove eyes so he can see the current state of the forums.
Title: Orion!
Post by: Ghost on April 06, 2005, 07:44:36 pm
There is also an error just to the lower left of the "GTD Galatea." It's blank.
Title: Orion!
Post by: redmenace on April 06, 2005, 09:24:18 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Galemp
Well, I've submitted my remap for Strat to convert as well. I thought
a model this detailed could benefit from some texture variety; many
areas were also painstakingly UV mapped to take advantage of the
texture map instead of simply tiling them.

Glowpoints!!!!!111111oneoneone
Title: Orion!
Post by: Galemp on April 06, 2005, 09:47:50 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Ghost
There is also an error just to the lower left of the "GTD Galatea." It's blank.


If you mean the lower right... well spotted! I must have missed that. *fixes it*
Title: Orion!
Post by: Singh on April 07, 2005, 12:00:23 am
I intend to do something nice with this when I get back.

Amazing! :D
Title: Orion!
Post by: Bobboau on April 07, 2005, 12:17:03 am
you know one of the things that the model realy needed was better antenia greebleing, I just sort of threw them together hapazardly so I would have something there, it could realy use better anteni, both in the one spot were there is that big com center in front of the fighter bay/launch ramp thing, and a few other places along the hull, also it'd be nice if this model would eventualy make use of the detail box code (detail object, only render when your close enough to them) but I guess I'll have to do that myself because I doubt anyone else knows how to do it.
Title: Orion!
Post by: StratComm on April 07, 2005, 12:18:21 am
I think I do.  I don't know the table semantics, but I think I have the general idea of what I'd need to do to the model.  I just haven't had time to poke at this stuff recently.  As of right now, most of the antenna are configured as destroyable untargetable subobjects, though I didn't make a table alteration to take this into account and so they don't do anything at the moment.  My big goal was to have a working version in mv_models 3.6.6, and that's been accomplished.  Beyond that, I'll get to it eventually but it isn't the highest thing on my priority list right now.

Oh, and since the Orion has no less than 28 such objects, I'm going to need the limit on subsystem total hp removed.  I don't want to weaken anything else in order to have these extra things around.
Title: Orion!
Post by: Ghost on April 07, 2005, 06:22:50 am
Quote
Originally posted by Galemp


If you mean the lower right... well spotted! I must have missed that. *fixes it*



Er..yeah...I'm dumb. Hush.
Title: Orion!
Post by: Mr_Maniac on April 07, 2005, 10:41:53 am
Finally I was able to test the Orion in FRED2...
Well... Same "rock"...
Two different Windows-Builds: Same rock...
My Linux build (always newest CVS-Tree): Same rock...
3.6.5-Release build: No rock...
Title: Orion!
Post by: StratComm on April 07, 2005, 02:10:23 pm
I have NO IDEA what might be causing that.  I can't seem to find anyone else with a similar problem, but when I get the chance to convert Galemp's remap you may try that as well.
Title: Orion!
Post by: Galemp on April 07, 2005, 10:09:17 pm
I'm considering doing a full-body ship UV map, actually, and making it really outstanding. That would take a while with Photoshop, though, so don't hold your breath.
Title: Orion!
Post by: Jetmech Jr. on April 14, 2005, 05:52:03 pm
(http://www.hostedimage.com/usr/1576/screen0003.jpg)

(http://www.hostedimage.com/usr/1576/screen0004.jpg)

Yeah...These appear wherever I fire at the Orion...
Title: Orion!
Post by: Cobra on April 14, 2005, 05:48:29 pm
that's ur rendering, not the orion. :p
Title: Orion!
Post by: Jetmech Jr. on April 14, 2005, 05:55:57 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Cobra
that's ur rendering, not the orion. :p


Whuh?
Title: Orion!
Post by: Ghost on April 14, 2005, 05:57:29 pm
TIME WARP