Author Topic: Endor (not the moon)  (Read 8860 times)

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Offline Topgun

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Behold! New terminator!

not bad if I may say so my self. if no one can think of a way to improve it, I'll shrink it to 2048^2, convert it to dxt5 and call it done. what do you think?
« Last Edit: February 10, 2010, 11:27:13 am by Topgun »

 

Offline Rodo

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You've got some atmosphere shine on the dark side of the planet, I personally would make that part go completely black.
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Offline Angelus

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You've got some atmosphere shine on the dark side of the planet, I personally would make that part go completely black.

Agreed. I also suggest that the atmospheric glow, covers the entire outer planet, at least to the terminator with a decreasing size and intensity.
The planet looks good, is it a Gas giant?

 

Offline Topgun

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yes, yes it is. as for the atmosphere, i think it might be due to jpg compression or something. on my screen the atmosphere glow on the dark side of the planet is very subtle, here its more pronounced.

 

Offline Topgun

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this better?




 

Offline chief1983

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I think you may want to post some of these in the general modding area.  I think you have some room for improvement, and they'll be seen by more eyes there, hopefully yielding more constructive advice.
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Offline Herra Tohtori

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Wall of text approaching:

This has the same problem as the Hoth candidate; the lighting is unrealistic to the point of distractiong.

As a piece of art, it's fine. As a background in a 3D space sim where models are otherwise correctly lit, it would look out of place.

There are several ways of creating more realistic border of light and darkness, many of which are found in the Celestial Objects thread in Fan Fiction and Art forum.


Another thing. Consider things like how big that atmosphere is. Endor is most assumedly a gas giant. That means it's likely to be at least 3-4 times larger than Earth in diameter and possibly, even probably much larger considering the observations of exoplanets so far. That means radius in excess of 3x6400km = ~20000 km.

In your image, the distance from center to the edge of the planet itself is 427 pixels, and the atmospheric glow is 53 pixels thick. That means that if the planet has a radius of approximately 20000 km, the atmosphere would be approximately 2500 kilometres thick for the visible part. The invisible parts would reach even further, so some semblance of realism check could be applied, yes?

This could not happen because the planet's mass would be so large that it would compress into a layer that would have imperceptible thickness from any significant distance, which means that unless you're going for a very, VERY low orbit skybox, you should in my opinion just make the planet's edge crisp but anti-aliased. Observe any available photograph of gas giants from Voyager/Pioneer missions to confirm this if you wish.

Another thing to consider is the curvature of the surface. Currently, the band lines are seen as uniformly aligned, which means the image would be correct if taken from optically infinite distance with a very low field of view. However, as the planet is a sphere, and if you plan on using resolutions like 2048^2, that means you should have the planet fill at least quarter of the sky, at field of view of 90 degrees. And at that distance, you would notice fairly clear spherical effects on the directions of the bands, as well as with any other surface of the sphere. Of course, the curvature effects depend on the angular diameter of the planet, which further depends on the size of the planet and the intended distance from it.

The easiest way to get these things correct is to render the planet to a skybox background in 3D modelling program. In fact I have almost completely migrated to using Blender for the rendering phase of my planets, I just do the texture work in GIMP.

Also one more thing regarding handling of images. Use things like hue/saturation/lightness, brightness/contrast and levels sparingly. 32-bit images have their limitations on how many edits they can take; every edit you take will incur rounding errors into the pixel values, and the effect accumulates very, very fast. This creates effects like banding, which can be seen on especially low lightness, low saturation areas like the blended border of light and dark in that latest posted image. It has some fairly noticeable banding going on in it; similarly the outer edge of the atmosphere is rather sharply defined now as a result of increased contrast.

I can also tell you in advance that if you convert that kind of image into dxt5 it will look rather horrible due to the high amount of large, soft gradients all over the image. This kind of image is very prone to showing dxt compression artefacts and not in a good way. You can try, but you'll notice that it is likely better to use u8888 file format for this kind of planet, no matter how big the image will end up.

Addendum: If this post appears arrogant or deprecating, that is not the intention. I simply have a strong opinion regarding backgrounds and how they should be made, and I sometimes lose the sight of people being new to the craft. I dare say I have a fair bit of practical experience to say what will look good, though, so I feel I can offer some tricks and techniques that can improve the work of people. I don't want to piledrive my own opinions into other people's visions, but I do have a strong interest in seeing geometrically realistic backgrounds in SWC simply because I think that's the way to do things, and will offer the best results in the end... :nervous:

TL;DR; it's a fine piece of art, but stands improvement in my opinion, and I wouldn't want to see that in SWC simply because I have never seen a planet look like that in Star Wars.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2010, 02:28:00 pm by Herra Tohtori »
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Offline Topgun

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I think you may want to post some of these in the general modding area.  I think you have some room for improvement, and they'll be seen by more eyes there, hopefully yielding more constructive advice.

in that case, can you move the thread?



also, is this better?





I don't know why I am getting banding, in gimp it looks fine.

 

Offline Herra Tohtori

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Atmosphere-wise? Miles better in my opinion although like I said for a gas giant at this sort of distance, I would just use sharp transition from transparent space to planet's surface.

The other issues still remain. The lighting looks more like an eclipse than a normal phase of a round object in the sky, and continuous eclipses are very rare unless there's a case of complex tidal locking, but then the eclipse would be more or less symmetrical...
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Offline Topgun

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sharper terminator, more dimension, got it.

what now?

I have to ask, how do you render the planets in blender? I have done it before but the quality of my results uh, vary.

 

Offline Herra Tohtori

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sharper terminator, more dimension, got it.

Apparently not. The problem is in the shape of the dark area, not exactly the sharpness although that could stand to be more crisp as well.

This is how spherical objects look in space in different phases:



Notice how in all these cases the dark area is half of the sphere, but varying parts of it are visible? That's the main problem with your planet. It looks like it's being just shadowed by another planet, as in solar eclipse.


Quote
what now?

I would recommend giving this thread a good, long read, but considering you have already posted there I don't know if you will. Shame that a lot of the early images are dead. Still, majority of them are still there, and there's a lot of information there as well.

Quote
I have to ask, how do you render the planets in blender? I have done it before but the quality of my results uh, vary.

With a lot of help from various sources of course. I'm not really a modeler, I have never went through the effort to learn to handle any 3D program reliably as far as custom things like UV mapping are concerned, so if I don't know how to get something done, I either ask in #blender at freenode or ask if someone at #hard-light or other channels would be willing to assist me.

A sphere I can handle all right, but for example for Saturn's ring I asked help, delivered the exact measurements for the ring's dimensions and how I wanted it mapped, and I got the help I required. Then I applied the textures to it, figured out good lighting settings and camera position, and then rendered the skybox (and some extra).

Starting with icosphere and learning how to apply a spherical texture to it would be a very good start. Then set light as Sun (one-directional instead of a point source), fiddle with other stuff like applying height map, specular map, city glows etc.

It takes some time to learn but it is worth it.
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Offline Topgun

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so the problem is with its shadow?

is this better?


 

Offline Aardwolf

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The terminator (shadow edge) should always go from pole to pole. That is, it's a slanted ellipse, not a smaller circle.

 

Offline Topgun

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The terminator (shadow edge) should always go from pole to pole. That is, it's a slanted ellipse, not a smaller circle.

so, more like this?


ignore the planet's south pole  :nervous:


I never had this problem before becuase I would use gimp's map to sphere feature. but for the sake of texture space, I now use apply-lens and make the shadow myself.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2010, 04:09:57 pm by Topgun »

 

Offline chief1983

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It does give the appearance that the planet has an incredible axis of rotation, in relation to the sun it is orbiting.  That particular picture seems to be  highlighting a lack of detail in the gaseous atmosphere now too.
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Offline Rodo

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I've used this in the past to learn a few tricks on how to make somewhat realistic planets...I still use it from time to time.

here's the linky

It's a tut for making a planet in gimp, but it can be done also in photoshop you just have to find the equal functions.

For making the basic planet layers I use the map to sphere function with some already done texture, using the map to sphere function makes it easier to set the lighting on the surface.

For more reference on other work check the celestial objects thread right here in HLP : http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=41939.0
el hombre vicio...

 
It does give the appearance that the planet has an incredible axis of rotation, in relation to the sun it is orbiting.  That particular picture seems to be  highlighting a lack of detail in the gaseous atmosphere now too.
Did somebody say "...detail in the gaseous atmosphere..."?
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Offline brandx0

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He meant lack of detail in this background, not in a real gas giant
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Whoops. Yeah, I meant: "In case you need any inspiration as to what sort of detail to cram in there." Sorry for any confusion.