[Sarafan]

Forgot to ask, have you posted the mod on the Relic forums? If not, you're only going to get help from half of the people interested in this, I know the relic forums have much more modders around than here, might definitely be worth a shot.

[MatthTheGeek]

Wait what.

For all intents and purposes the HW part of Relicnews is dead. Was already dead 3 years ago when I quit, hasn't improved since. Saying they have more modders than here is like saying Luxembourg has more population than China.

[pecenipicek]

what matththegeek said. i was about to try going on relicnews and find some posts/threadsbut, then i gave up since they started using some newer vbulletin version which i cant bloody well stand nor even use properly...

as for the assets part, which part of "no, we are not going to use any FSO/anyone else's assets if we have a choice" did you not understand dragon? unless you are about to start making new assets for us, please do not discuss "which assets would do, and which wouldnt"



also, while trying to get the ion beam effect made, i accidentaly made something that looked a fair bit more like the pulsar than the ion.

[Aesaar]

"no, we are not going to use any FSO/anyone else's assets if we have a choice"

If you don't want this mod to die, you don't have a choice.  You won't recapture interest if you insist on remodelling the whole of HW2's ship list and creating all new effects before actually going somewhere. 

I'll remind you that Requiem War tried what you're doing with the HW1 fleets (and just the fleets), and look where that mod is now.  Do remember that RW's team included far better modellers/texturers than you or me, and worked when HW2 modding was at its height.  This is not a criticism of you.  A team the size of TAP's can only do so much.

Using Relic's models is no more wrong than using their universe, and this mod is not too good for FSO assets.

Pulsar has a problem of a different kind. The engine is currently incapable of exactly replicating the effect.

Curses, I was afraid of that.  A shame.

[Dragon]

"no, we are not going to use any FSO/anyone else's assets if we have a choice"

If you don't want this mod to die, you don't have a choice.  You won't recapture interest if you insist on remodelling the whole of HW2's ship list and creating all new effects before actually going somewhere. 

I'd say, let them persist in the delusion that they can make their own effects, they'll either make it or find that it's stalling the mod too much and use community stuff. It's not something that's usually holding mods up (UV mapping and modeling are more common culprits).

[Sarafan]

Wait what.

For all intents and purposes the HW part of Relicnews is dead. Was already dead 3 years ago when I quit, hasn't improved since. Saying they have more modders than here is like saying Luxembourg has more population than China.

I'm talking more about the HW2 part of the forums which is still active IIRC.

what matththegeek said. i was about to try going on relicnews and find some posts/threadsbut, then i gave up since they started using some newer vbulletin version which i cant bloody well stand nor even use properly...

So your answer is no, that means you're missing an entire community that would be interested in this and that could help, even if you cant stand it the possible benefit of more people helping in this must still be worth it.

[Aesaar]

There are one or two active projects on the Relicnews HW2 mod forums, HW@ probably being the best of them.  Compared to its heyday 5-6 years ago, though, it's nothing.

It might be worth posting a release thread in the Gamer's Lounge if/when it happens, but the amount of progress TAP exhibits wouldn't get any more interest there than it does here.  You'd actually need something substantial.

[Andrew_Cluetain]

Hum, do you guys still need TBL / TBM editors?  I know I had asked to join in the past but I can't remember / can't find if you didn't want me* or just never got back to me.   Please PM me if you are intrested.

* The tbl I submitted for weapons had an error where the Kinetic / Flechette Guns did all there dmg at once instead of over 3 shots. This lead to fighters being One-Shoted. I didn't realize this till like 2 months later how to fix it. Also At the time I didn't know about TBM's eather.

[MatthTheGeek]

So your answer is no, that means you're missing an entire community that would be interested in this and that could help, even if you cant stand it the possible benefit of more people helping in this must still be worth it.

I did make a topic there a while ago. I got exactly 0 replies. Yay for the interest of an entire community.

[pecenipicek]

Wait what.

For all intents and purposes the HW part of Relicnews is dead. Was already dead 3 years ago when I quit, hasn't improved since. Saying they have more modders than here is like saying Luxembourg has more population than China.

I'm talking more about the HW2 part of the forums which is still active IIRC.

what matththegeek said. i was about to try going on relicnews and find some posts/threadsbut, then i gave up since they started using some newer vbulletin version which i cant bloody well stand nor even use properly...

So your answer is no, that means you're missing an entire community that would be interested in this and that could help, even if you cant stand it the possible benefit of more people helping in this must still be worth it.

curse you half-written response! i actually meant to say that i did try making a few threads/posts over there over the past years, but there was very little response if any at all. and i couldnt be arse to trudge through the new interface to actually find those posts

(i'm retarded when it comes to xenforo/vbulletin's designs)


Also, Dragon, this is your first and last warning, be very careful about further noise you make from this point on.

I am sick and tired of you. You are one of the least productive members of this community and 90% of what you have contributed is "helpful" backseat moderation and modding without doing anything by yourself. I know not how the hell can you even dare to post anything here.

Hum, do you guys still need TBL / TBM editors?  I know I had asked to join in the past but I can't remember / can't find if you didn't want me* or just never got back to me.   Please PM me if you are intrested.

* The tbl I submitted for weapons had an error where the Kinetic / Flechette Guns did all there dmg at once instead of over 3 shots. This lead to fighters being One-Shoted. I didn't realize this till like 2 months later how to fix it. Also At the time I didn't know about TBM's eather.

And you wonder why we never got back to you? Please read the first post i this thread again. I do not want to teach team members and then have them leave for some other mod when they actually learn stuff in the engine.

Besides, as far as tabling goes we need a bit of balancing/fine tuning of combat.

"no, we are not going to use any FSO/anyone else's assets if we have a choice"

If you don't want this mod to die, you don't have a choice.  You won't recapture interest if you insist on remodelling the whole of HW2's ship list and creating all new effects before actually going somewhere. 

Yes, i can. And noone's talking about whole hw2's ship list at this point in time for the record

I'll remind you that Requiem War tried what you're doing with the HW1 fleets (and just the fleets), and look where that mod is now.  Do remember that RW's team included far better modellers/texturers than you or me, and worked when HW2 modding was at its height.  This is not a criticism of you.  A team the size of TAP's can only do so much.

i have no idea about that mod as i had not followed or modded hw2 much, as this is Matth's area.

Using Relic's models is no more wrong than using their universe, and this mod is not too good for FSO assets.

If we were talking about a game which relic originally made and doing a mod for it, i'd be inclined to agree. as for the "too good for FSO assets" part, that is due to the fact that it would look a bit too generic and the fact that FSO effects have almost nothing in common with HW2's visuals. i'll point to the explosions for the first part

Pulsar has a problem of a different kind. The engine is currently incapable of exactly replicating the effect.

Curses, I was afraid of that.  A shame.

What? What is so different with pulsars? Arent they just pulsed "short-ish" beams?

(note: when i convert model and effects, i observe them carefully in stock HW2 when recreating, but otherwise, i honestly havent used the pulsars that much. much more of a capship bugger here.)

[Sarafan]

curse you half-written response! i actually meant to say that i did try making a few threads/posts over there over the past years, but there was very little response if any at all. and i couldnt be arse to trudge through the new interface to actually find those posts

Ah, ok then. Well, I'm pretty much out of ideas to help, sorry.

[Dragon]

Pulsar has a problem of a different kind. The engine is currently incapable of exactly replicating the effect.

Curses, I was afraid of that.  A shame.

What? What is so different with pulsars? Arent they just pulsed "short-ish" beams?

They, along with Vaygyr lances, are a hybrid of sorts between beams and blobs. They hit once, but the beam "follows" the firing ship after that. They might be doable with beams, but they won't be a 100% recreation, and this won't be easy and require a new, animated effect. Any kind of beam hits multiple times per second, through it's entire duration, while a pulsar should hit once, but quickly fade away without doing further damage. Also, the muzzleflash is more elaborate than a simple beam glow, and beams can't currently have anything like that.

As for the little ad hominem, it's false. Just ask Darius, ShadowGorrath or anyone from Inferno. Or just look into credits of the latest AoA or WiH, or at the recent Inferno screenshots (EA ships, in particular). I'm doing somewhat less than I used to (and much less than I'd like to), but there are people who do less. I'm not doing big, noticeable things like models or textures (and the best of my normal map are not released yet), but that doesn't mean I'm not doing anything.

[Aesaar]

And noone's talking about whole hw2's ship list at this point in time for the record

So I was told earlier today.  My mistake.

i have no idea about that mod as i had not followed or modded hw2 much, as this is Matth's area.

Requiem War was a HW2 mod that tried to HTL all HW1 fleets and port them to HW2.  It went on for 3 years and died very quietly.  It was one of the better HW2 projects, and the ridiculously talented Enterprise-E was a large part of it.

If we were talking about a game which relic originally made and doing a mod for it, i'd be inclined to agree. as for the "too good for FSO assets" part, that is due to the fact that it would look a bit too generic and the fact that FSO effects have almost nothing in common with HW2's visuals. i'll point to the explosions for the first part

They're better than nothing, and better than the white clouds you're using for flak now (which, IMO, look terrible.  No offense meant).  They're just one more thing that isn't critical.  You can't take the Diaspora approach with Homeworld because it just isn't as popular.  I'd have thought this call for assistance would be proof of that. 

On HW2's models: Relic has, to my knowledge, never, ever cared about people using their assets for non-commercial purposes.  Especially not Homeworld.  Moreover, using the HW2 models isn't very different from using the HW universe.  They are, AFAIK, both copyright violations.

What? What is so different with pulsars? Arent they just pulsed "short-ish" beams?

(note: when i convert model and effects, i observe them carefully in stock HW2 when recreating, but otherwise, i honestly havent used the pulsars that much. much more of a capship bugger here.)

Pulsars and Vaygr lances look really unique because they look a lot like the muzzle flash extends all the way to the point of impact, and then dissipates in a rather unique way (as it dissipates, the beam gets more and more tenuous, if that makes sense.  It doesn't just stop like FS beams do.  I'm sure you've seen this).  I had hoped it would be doable, because it looks awesome.  Also, cool sound (par for the course with HW).

A last note: The point I've been trying to make over this whole situation is that I think your priorities (new models of the HW2 ships, as far as I can tell) are in the wrong place.  I never meant to imply that creating a demo release was easy.  I'll add that if I did not care what happened to this project, I would not bother with comments.

[The E]

As for the little ad hominem, it's false. Just ask Darius, ShadowGorrath or anyone from Inferno. Or just look into credits of the latest AoA or WiH, or at the recent Inferno screenshots (EA ships, in particular). I'm doing somewhat less than I used to (and much less than I'd like to), but there are people who do less. I'm not doing big, noticeable things like models or textures (and the best of my normal map are not released yet), but that doesn't mean I'm not doing anything.

You were hired as a texture guy on BP. But, as it turned out, you didn't know how to make proper textures at the time, so none of your work is actually used in BP. During your time at BP, your behaviour was characterized by a lot of requests to make assets in ways that were benefitial to you or your projects, not BP.

Actually, you know what? Now you made me properly angry. I am going to look at BP's svn log and tell you exactly which, if any, of your contributions are still in there. I can guarantee you that it's a short list.

[MatthTheGeek]

They, along with Vaygyr lances, are a hybrid of sorts between beams and blobs. They hit once, but the beam "follows" the firing ship after that.

All beams in HW2 do that, that's how the engine handle them. Not specific to pulse. In fact, even bullets do that.

Basically, the game has its own accuracy system where, if the randomizer decided it's going to hit, then it IS going to it, no matter what. Bullets will magically track their targets and so will beams.

And I can tell you pulsar beams are, for the engine, simply beams, like ion cannons and progenitor phased cannon arrays are.

[Aesaar]

Yeah, I got a decent approximation going earlier by toying with beam duration, ShrinkFactor, and ShrinkPct.  With the actual HW2 effect texture to replace the standard AAA ones, it would probably look just fine.  Won't have the unique fade effect, but otherwise...

Provided beams work with muzzle effects that have an actual direction, rather than just circular ones.

[Phantom Hoover]

And you wonder why we never got back to you? Please read the first post i this thread again. I do not want to teach team members and then have them leave for some other mod when they actually learn stuff in the engine.

Besides, as far as tabling goes we need a bit of balancing/fine tuning of combat.

And you wonder why your mod is dying? There aren't many experienced modders and almost all of the active ones are tied down with their own projects. You can't afford to turn away help, although it doesn't seem like you can afford to remodel everything before any release either and that hasn't swayed you either.

[Dragon]

Actually, you know what? Now you made me properly angry. I am going to look at BP's svn log and tell you exactly which, if any, of your contributions are still in there. I can guarantee you that it's a short list.

Well, you're right on that one. My early stuff was crap. That's not saying I wasn't productive, but, well, I wasn't skilled. I actually Looked through the textures myself and the results are surprising (and frightening). More on PM, where all of this should've been anyway.

[assasing123]

I will say this, if you ask me or message me here, i can help with modelling all you want, with Poffing and with tabling anything ship related, be weapons, armors, the ship themselves, tables, etc etc, can help with audio too, but what i m afraid i cannot do reliably its to "Paint" ships, i m horrible as a UVmapper and texture artist, eitherway, if you want help i would love to model for TAP project given i LOVE HW1 more than HW1.

As for the little ad hominem, it's false. Just ask Darius, ShadowGorrath or anyone from Inferno. Or just look into credits of the latest AoA or WiH, or at the recent Inferno screenshots (EA ships, in particular). I'm doing somewhat less than I used to (and much less than I'd like to), but there are people who do less. I'm not doing big, noticeable things like models or textures (and the best of my normal map are not released yet), but that doesn't mean I'm not doing anything.

You were hired as a texture guy on BP. But, as it turned out, you didn't know how to make proper textures at the time, so none of your work is actually used in BP. During your time at BP, your behaviour was characterized by a lot of requests to make assets in ways that were benefitial to you or your projects, not BP.

Actually, you know what? Now you made me properly angry. I am going to look at BP's svn log and tell you exactly which, if any, of your contributions are still in there. I can guarantee you that it's a short list.

Woah... talk about rage, o,o now calm down guys and even tho i m a newb, can you guys please avoid derailing this topic? take your grudges somewhere else out of respect of the OP at least.

[Madrox]

I can help a little, but i have my hands almost full with my own campaign, it think it would be a nice training for my FREDing skills, ah and i am learnign Blender too of thats of some help. i can´t give my full compromise and time, but i can do something. i would hate to see this project to die if i can do at least something about it.