Hard Light Productions Forums
Hosted Projects - Standalone => The Babylon Project => Topic started by: dragon1 on September 02, 2004, 04:41:55 pm
-
Hi all,
I have always been a little confused about the weapons on the Warlock-class Destroyer. I have seen many conflicting websites. Does anyone know what the release 3 weapon loadout will be?
The large turrets appear to be the same or similar to those used on the Nova-class Dreadnought, but some websites state that those are heavy pulse cannons. I may be wrong, but I thought that the Nova-class BB/DN carried Heavy Plasma Cannons. If they are pulse cannons, can they also fire heavy lasers like the pulse cannons on the Omega-class Destroyer?
The port and starboard missile launchers; are they anti-fighter weapons or anti-capship weapons?
What is the side bay for?
Thanks to the community and the developers of the Babylon Project
-
Though I have no idea what the team is planning this is what I've seen of the ships in the series and other sources.
The Nova Dreadnought Battleship originally had trans phased heavy plasma cannons. According to B5 Wars (Which acquired special editors from JMS for the 2nd revisions to make them canon) the post Civil War variant was upgraded with Heavy pulse cannons and fixed the power distribution problems which prevented the ship from moving while firing.
The Warlock has 2 forward Heavy Particle Laser Cannons like the ones mounted on the GodSats, the turrets are Heavy Pulse Cannons like the Nova and large and small ballistic missiles or torpedos, both against other cap ships and for planetary strikes. The side bay is the landing bay for fighters and shuttles, the forward bay only launches it doesn't support landings.
The Laser/Pulse system of the Omega Destroyer is a specialized hyrbrid weapon and other than the Poseidon Carrier I have not seen any other ship use it. The turrets on the Nova and Warlock are not these hybrid systems so they do not have the capibility to fire both pulse and lasers. There is a lot of confusion that particle beams and particle lasers are the same thing, they're not. The particle beam is more low key used for anti-fighter defense primarily; the X-Ray Heavy Laser is what was purchased by the EA during the Earth/Minbari War and is what is mounted on the Hyperion "Midwinters" and the Omegas and Warlocks.
I have no idea how the team is handling the loadouts but this is the information I've seen or have in my books. Hope that helps a little.
-
I don't know why they had to come up with some strange hybrid weapon on the Omega.
It is clearly visible even in the show that the Omega forward main guns have two gun ports. The other for pulses and the other for beams.
Current TBP Warlock weapon setup is below, but I seriously doubt it tells you nothing.
$Subsystem: turret01a, 5.5, 0.0
$Default SBanks: ( "EA Nemesis LG" )
$Subsystem: turret02a, 5.5, 0.0
$Default SBanks: ( "EA Nemesis LG" )
$Subsystem: turret03a, 5.5, 0.0
$Default PBanks: ( "EA Heavy Particle Beam" )
$Subsystem: turret04a, 5.5, 0.0
$Default PBanks: ( "EA Heavy Particle Beam" )
$Subsystem: turret05a, 2.0, 0.0
$Default PBanks: ( "EA Adv Plasma Turret 2" )
$Subsystem: turret06a, 2.0, 0.0
$Default PBanks: ( "EA Adv Plasma Turret 2" )
$Subsystem: turret07a, 2.0, 0.0
$Default PBanks: ( "EA Adv Plasma Turret 2" )
$Subsystem: turret08a, 2.0, 2.4
$Default PBanks: ( "EA Adv Plasma Turret 2" )
$Subsystem: turret09a, 2.0, 2.4
$Default PBanks: ( "EA Adv Plasma Turret 2" )
$Subsystem: turret10a, 2.0, 2.4
$Default PBanks: ( "EA Adv Plasma Turret 2" )
$Subsystem: turret11a, 2.0, 2.4
$Default PBanks: ( "EA Adv Plasma Turret 2" )
$Subsystem: turret12a, 2.0, 2.4
$Default PBanks: ( "EA Adv Plasma Turret 2" )
$Subsystem: turret13a, 1.0, 2.4
$Default PBanks: ( "EA Adv Plasma Turret" )
$Subsystem: turret14a, 1.0, 2.4
$Default PBanks: ( "EA Adv Plasma Turret" )
$Subsystem: turret15a, 1.0, 2.4
$Default PBanks: ( "EA Adv Plasma Turret" )
$Subsystem: turret16a, 1.0, 2.4
$Default PBanks: ( "EA Heavy Rail Gun" )
$Subsystem: turret17a, 1.0, 2.4
$Default PBanks: ( "EA Heavy Rail Gun" )
$Subsystem: turret18a, 0.5, 2.4
$Default PBanks: ( "EA Light Pulse Turret" )
$Subsystem: turret19a, 0.5, 2.4
$Default PBanks: ( "EA Light Pulse Turret" )
$Subsystem: turret20a, 0.5, 2.4
$Default PBanks: ( "EA Light Pulse Turret" )
$Subsystem: turret21a, 0.5, 2.4
$Default PBanks: ( "EA Light Pulse Turret" )
$Subsystem: turret22a, 0.5, 2.4
$Default PBanks: ( "EA Light Pulse Turret" )
$Subsystem: turret23a, 0.5, 2.4
$Default PBanks: ( "EA Light Pulse Turret" )
$Subsystem: turret24a, 0.5, 2.4
$Default PBanks: ( "EA Light Pulse Turret" )
$Subsystem: turret25a, 0.5, 2.4
$Default PBanks: ( "EA Light Pulse Turret" )
$Subsystem: turret26a, 0.5, 2.4
$Default PBanks: ( "EA Light Pulse Turret" )
$Subsystem: turret27a, 0.5, 2.4
$Default PBanks: ( "EA Light Pulse Turret" )
$Subsystem: turret28a, 0.5, 2.4
$Default PBanks: ( "EA Light Pulse Turret" )
$Subsystem: turret29a, 0.5, 2.4
$Default PBanks: ( "EA Light Pulse Turret" )
$Subsystem: turret30a, 0.5, 2.4
$Default PBanks: ( "EA Light Pulse Turret" )
$Subsystem: turret31a, 0.5, 2.4
$Default PBanks: ( "EA Light Pulse Turret" )
$Subsystem: turret32a, 0.5, 2.4
$Default PBanks: ( "EA Light Pulse Turret" )
$Subsystem: turret33a, 0.5, 2.4
$Default PBanks: ( "EA Light Pulse Turret" )
$Subsystem: turret34a, 0.5, 2.4
$Default PBanks: ( "EA Light Pulse Turret" )
$Subsystem: turret35a, 0.5, 2.4
$Default PBanks: ( "EA Light Pulse Turret" )
$Subsystem: turret36a, 0.5, 2.4
$Default PBanks: ( "EA Light Pulse Turret" )
$Subsystem: turret37a, 0.5, 2.4
$Default PBanks: ( "EA Light Pulse Turret" )
$Subsystem: turret38a, 0.5, 2.4
$Default PBanks: ( "EA Light Pulse Turret" )
$Subsystem: turret39a, 0.5, 2.4
$Default PBanks: ( "EA Light Pulse Turret" )
$Subsystem: turret40a, 0.5, 2.4
$Default PBanks: ( "EA Light Pulse Turret" )
$Subsystem: turret41a, 0.5, 2.4
$Default PBanks: ( "EA Light Pulse Turret" )
$Subsystem: turret42a, 0.5, 2.4
$Default PBanks: ( "EA Light Pulse Turret" )
$Subsystem: turret43a, 0.5, 2.4
$Default PBanks: ( "EA Light Pulse Turret" )
-
I'm tecnically with you Mr. Fury.
There is one version which claims both weapons fire from the same barrel in the turret. Something like up to 3 pulse bursts mixed with laser beam strikes.
However there's another version that states that the Omega hybrid turret is a hybrid because it has 2 different weapon barrels in the same turret; 1 for the pulse weapon and one for the laser.
If this is the case, then it is logical to asume that both weapons could be fired simultaneously.
Personally I like the second option better and hope that's the one the team uses.
-
Its been used since R2.
Just look Severed Dreams very carefully. The pulses and beams are being fired from different gun points.
-
Yeah I have to take a closer look. The thing that confused me was there was this great artist rendition of Severed Dreams showing the Alexander firing the burst pulse and the artist mistakenly made the pulse fire from the laser barrel and not the pulse barrel. Thanks for the clarification.
-
If you're a fighter attacking a Warlock, be afraid, very afraid. Its got a ton of smaller weapons to shoot you down with.
-
Yes be afraid but atleast you die with honour and was a headache to uv aswell ;)
-
just a minor little thing i thought i would add - muad'dib - the particle beam weapons are not low key weapons for anit fighter defence - particle beam weapons are the heaviest availble to the earth alliance and in the case of the warlock and god sats some of the most power beam weapons around only rivaled the minibari's heavy partcile beams and those of the first ones
even today particle beam weapons are more damaging than lasers - however lasers are easier to produce and operate
in b5 the xray laser is a powerful weapon but its not in the same league as the warlocks main guns but the warlock firing arc isn't nearly as good as the turret mountable x-ray laser - so if your a capital ship being infront of a warlock is a bad tactical situation
-
Here's the info I have, I think you are confusing the particle beam with the particle cannon.
The particle beam is listed as firing a short single burst of charged particles at a target; designed to defend against fighters the extended range of this defensive weapon has made it effective in an anti-ship role also.
Heavy Particle Cannon was developed to be deployed in the GodSats and has been mounted on the Warlock. And I completely agree anything in front of the Warlock is going to have a very bad day, it's the most devastating weapon on a younger race ship since the Minbari Fusion beam. Since the Warlock is also supposed to be very maneuverable also it compensates for the limited firing arc of the main cannons.
X-Ray Heavy Laser is the beam that is fired from the single turret of the Hyperion and in the dual turret of the Omega in the show.
The Minbari have the Neutron cannon for the fighters and Fusion beams for lasers in the capital ships.
I honestly can't say I've ever seen the particle beam used in the show. I've seen the pulse weapons from the Hyperion, Nova and Omega fire as well as the lasers from the Hyperion and Omega. The Warlock had 2 appearances; once in A Call to Arms where it briefly is seen firing its missiles at the Dra'kh and once in the final episode of Crusade where if you blink you miss it. In A Call to Arms you do see the GodSats firing their main particle cannons and they look exactly like the X-Ray Heavy Laser but the standard particle beam has not been featured to my knowledge ever in the series.
Anyways I hope you guys can show the difference between the particle beams and the laser beams so they can be distinguished as different weapons. Sorry for the ramble, but particle beams and laser beams have always kind of confused me.:)
-
well i admit i was thinking you ment particle beam as in teh warlock and godsat weapons but that aside for some unknown reason i want to call the weapons on teh omega-x partcile beam weapons though i have no supporting evidence of what they are - but the packed a whallop thats for sure
-
Omega X suppose to have fusion beams.:drevil:
-
Yeah it's a bit confusing for me also.
The Omega-X's blue beams are listed as Light Molecular Slicers (Molecular Slicers are the Shadow beams); it says that the Shadow thralls gave the EA these scaled down versions of their beams for the Omega-X along with the hybrid organic armor.
-
I liked the color of those.
A shame that that color isn't used for any regular EA beams.
And there is a bit of a difference in appearance between X-Ray and Particlebeam. The X-Ray Beam is pure red while the particlebeam has a little bit orange in it. But it is a very little difference you only notice when you look really good (or my memory is wrong, but I din't think thats the case here).
And they definately talk about the strenght of the GOD's beams. I don't think a normal X-Ray Beam could destroy nothamericas whole westcost that fast.
-
Originally posted by Mr. Fury
Its been used since R2.
Just look Severed Dreams very carefully. The pulses and beams are being fired from different gun points.
I just watched Severed Dreams on the B5 season 3 DVD. It appeared that the Lasers and Pulses were coming from the same barrel on all of the Omega-class Destroyers. Maybe I'm missing something?
-
Originally posted by -Norbert-
And they definately talk about the strenght of the GOD's beams. I don't think a normal X-Ray Beam could destroy nothamericas whole westcost that fast.
Sheridan's second says its the people on the East Coast whose day is going to be ruined. The beaches over here on the West Coast are better anyway. ;)
The beam effects look and sound a little different during Seasons 2, 3, and 4 if I remember correctly. For instance, compare the Agamemnon's attack in All Alone in the Night with its forward guns in Endgame.
-
The GOD sat cannons definitely were an yellow/white color based on the warmup glow you see from one of them right before its shot to bits by the (?)Apollo(?).
-
The GodSat heavy particle cannon is colored red or reddish like the Omega Laser, you see them fire prominently in A Call to Arms taking out the Dra'kh plague ships.
-
Is that a crusade episode? Watched season 2-5 so far and haven't seen them used yet.
-
That's the tv movie that functioned as a pilot to launch Crusade. It's included in the 5 tv movie pack which also has B5 pilot The Gathering, In the Beginning, Thirdspace and River of Souls.
I think I read Crusade is or will be coming to DVD soon so you should check that out also if you can, very promising series.
-
Crusade hits shelves Dec. 7th.
-
In ACTA you saw the GOD-beam from greater distance than in Endgame.
In Endgame it looks like a red beam with a bit orange in the middle unlike the Omegas beams, whitch are pure red.
And to discuss about the omegas front weapon coming from the same emitter is a bit pointless, since it isn't even consistant throughout the series. But it would be much more logical (and probably easier to make in FS2) to make them fire from different emitters.
-
Originally posted by -Norbert-
In ACTA you saw the GOD-beam from greater distance than in Endgame.
In Endgame it looks like a red beam with a bit orange in the middle unlike the Omegas beams, whitch are pure red.
And to discuss about the omegas front weapon coming from the same emitter is a bit pointless, since it isn't even consistant throughout the series. But it would be much more logical (and probably easier to make in FS2) to make them fire from different emitters.
Actually, I cannot think of one time in the series when the Omega beam and pulse came from a different emitter. Upon further inspection of the small, thin bar next to the barrel, it appears to be some sort of fire control director. I believe that for the FS2 engine, it might be easier to mod the omega as having a double hardpoint, but NEVER in the series season 2-5 do we ever see the Omega laser firing from the small tube.
By the way, check out the EAS Damocles' side mounted weapons array, the smaller tubes next to the barrels were not open ended, they had the appearance of being solid.
-
Who actually even cares? Omega destroyer was first introduced in R2 and there it had seperate gunpoints for beam and pulse weaponry and its going to stay like that now and forever. :)
-
Uhh, why?
Again, I know it may be easier to mod the beam/pulse as a separate gunpoint, but it isn't canon. I think the idea of a variable turret was cool. It added yet even more to the creativity of B5. The details are everything.
So while it may be a small detail, and it may even be too dificult to mod into the game engine. Why not say that instead of displaying the crappy attitude.
"Who cares?"
Well I think the fans care! And if they didn't then every fanfic uber-ship created in the immagination of every fan would become canon.
-
Easy there, chief.
-
No it is not difficult to make the weapons to fire from the same gunpoint, the problem is the timing. Currently there is no way to time the weapons to fire at different times except hard work of a mission designer, but then it wouldn't be dynamic.
While I am pretty sure I've seen Omega firing the main guns from different gun points, either way people wouldn't be satisfied anyway.
While I do think details are important, they aren't everything. When it comes to details, this Omega turret issue is not even comparable to most others we have which must be solved in a way or another.
-
I understand. I am sorry if my previous post came off as a little abrasive.
What have you guys done with the Omega's aft batteries? I know I've seen these fire as both a pulse and a beam.
Thanks
-
*sigh* Realistically you would have seperate barrels, and it is much cooler that way.
-
Originally posted by dragon1
What have you guys done with the Omega's aft batteries? I know I've seen these fire as both a pulse and a beam.
Same as with the forebatteries.
-
Originally posted by dragon1
What have you guys done with the Omega's aft batteries? I know I've seen these fire as both a pulse and a beam.
but never in the same situation. I only recall seeing beams firing from there in "Severed Dreams" when the Alexander takes down the Clarkstown.
-
Pulses were seen firing in the battle where Sheridan's forces liberated Proxima 3, or was it Mars... I don't remember, the planet was reddish anyway. :p
-
Actually every battery on the Omega is exactly the same laser/pulse system. Any one of them can fire both weapons.
In the Episode were Sheridan takes the White Star to Ganymede where a Shadow ship was captured then goes berserk, after the encounter the Agamemnon hunts the White Star through Jupiters atmosphere (I'm pretty sure). The Agamemnon fires its beams at the White Star from the lower set of turrets just in front of the rotational section, in other words not the main forward batteries.
I would really like to see the Omega fire all six forward beams and pulses at targets in front of them, as a kind of super attack.
-
both modes cannot be fired simultainiously from the smae gun. And firing all the beams at once would drain the ship of power. would be good as a last resort but.....
-
Originally posted by Mr. Fury
Pulses were seen firing in the battle where Sheridan's forces liberated Proxima 3, or was it Mars... I don't remember, the planet was reddish anyway. :p
Proxima 3....lots of pulses. Probably because they were targeting fighters and Whitestars. If they needed to go after capital ships from the rear aspect...then bring on the beams.
-
Didn't the Victory-class Destroyer Excalibur have some sort of beam/pulse array? I can't quite remember, but I remember seeing one of the turrets firing a pulse weapon when it usually fired a beam.
Also, ITB shows a Nova-class Dreadnought firing beams in a very quick sequence. Will R3 feature Nova dreadnoughts with a primitive beam cannon system?
Lastly, does anybody know if the Agents of Gaming B5 ships (Poseidon, Oracle, etc...) are considered canon by JMS?
-
Originally posted by Edwin
both modes cannot be fired simultainiously from the smae gun. And firing all the beams at once would drain the ship of power. would be good as a last resort but.....
I know that the turrets can't fire both types at the exact same time, they can fire them within seconds of each other though, in salvos. What I actually meant is that I'd like to see the Omegas fire both weapons out of all turrets.
And there is no documentation stating limits to the Omega's firing capabilities. Nowhere in my books does it say anything about not being able to fire its 6 forward lasers simultaneously because of a power drain issue. While I'm sure it wouldn't be possible to sustain repeated salvos of all forward beams firing, I'm pretty sure that it can be done in battle every now and again.
The sequence in ITB where Novas fire beams is (As I understand) the infamous glitch sequence that also has Omegas in the background. Omegas were not finished until some time after the war had ended and Novas do not have beams. Tim Earls who designed the B5 ships listed the Nova's weapons as Trans-phsed Heavy Plasma Cannons.
The AoG is debated depending on who answers. Some poeple consider them canon, some don't, some say semi-canon. However in his personal forums JMS confirmed that he had brought special editors to make revisions in the 2nd editions of both AoG's products (B5 Wars and Fleet COmmand) and Chameleon Electric's B5 P&P RPG so that they would be canon. So true AoG ships are canon but there are many fan-made ships for B5 Wars that are not canon. An example is the Monsoon Gunboat, the Tempest Heavy Cruiser or the Polaris Dreadnought (Better known as the Triton).
-
Remember that these are "gun ports", not the actual weapons. They could prob's fire both but who care's. Whats 'cannon' is what the writer chooses to make them and this can change depending on the story line.
Make them for whatever suits the game and gameplay best.