Author Topic: .tbl help  (Read 364 times)

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I hope I'm posting in the appropriate place.  Let me apologize in advance if I'm in error here.

     I'm not into modding like some are, I don't really have the skills and/or knowledge to do anything impressive like the ST: Reborn, which was amazing.  I did manage to figure out how to extract a .vp, rebuild a .vp, and  to open .tbl in notepad.  I've been tinkering with the weapons.tbl because I've always hated the rate of fire of certain weapons in FS/FS2, but I also don't want to completely break the games balance so mostly I've been cranking up RoF and reducing damage.  Simple enough.

     Well, then I started playing with ships.tbl.  Just kind of toying with stuff for the crap of it.  I have the original .vp backed up and figured, 'what's the harm?'  I find it a little irritating that so many of the ships in FS1 only have one secondary hardpoint.  The Valkyrie should have two, right?  You need an anti-bomber missile...it's a must.  But then, you also kind of need something for fighters too.  But rebuilding the necessary .vp for FS1 is kind of a pain whereas the FS2 .vp is like three directories...easy.  So without really thinking about it I added an extra secondary to the Myrmidon.  I was already adding the Harpoon to the Myrmidon secondary weapon allow list because why the crap can't you put a Harpoon in a Myrmidon?  Ridiculous.  and I added a secondary slot while I was there.  I ran FS2 and behold! Three secondary slots for the Myrmidon!  Oh wait though...don't you have to add some information to the model so the game knows where the hardpoint is?  I thought probably yes.  And isn't that a little bit beyond my current ability?  Definitely.  Oh, well.  No harm done and I return to the ships.tbl and return the Myrmidon to it's former secondary weapon configuration (I kept the Harpoon), rebuild the .vp and add it to the game.  Only now I go into FS2 and find that the placeholder on the loadout screen for the 3rd secondary slot remains.  I can't load a weapon into it but the box is still there and while I hadn't had problems because of it at that point. it wasn't a huge deal.  But I don't like the reminder of my failure and then I get an error...something about the model has three slots but the .tbl doesn't...or something close to that.  I hit debug and manage to continue with the game but I get the point....it must be corrected  I uninstall Knossos, FS2 retail, delete the program directories and start fresh.  Only after reinstalling everything...the box is still there on the Myrmidon loadout screen?!  So now I repeat the uninstallation of everything, delete the directories, and then go and dig into my Document/Application data (after jumping Windows 10 access/ownership security hurdles) and remove all of the files I can find relating to Knossos, Hardlight, Freespace, MediaVPS  ...everything I can locate.  FS2 does not like to forget a guys mistakes.  So now I'm reinstalling everything...again.  I hope that issue is fixed now, I guess I'll find out soon enough, but is there anyplace else that data might be hiding or have I gotten it all?  Why is that particular data set being saved anyway?  Seems kind of odd to me. 

     Also, since I'm already here writing a novel no one cares about where might I find information and/or utilities regarding modding ship models for FS1/mediaVP.  Particularly HP positioning?  Is it possible to add a completely new ship to the campaign?  That's probably really difficult, isn't it?  I mean, for a jacka** like myself, anyway.  I probably shouldn't be messing with all of that.

 

Offline General Battuta

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You don't need to repackage files as .vps for them to be read by the game. Just put the modified table file in [FS directory]/[your mod]/data/tables and launch the game using your mod. They'll override whatever's in the base .vps.

Don't modify the retail .vp files, always leave them the way they are so you have known good data to fall back to if your mod stuff breaks.

 
You don't need to repackage files as .vps for them to be read by the game. Just put the modified table file in [FS directory]/[your mod]/data/tables and launch the game using your mod. They'll override whatever's in the base .vps.

Don't modify the retail .vp files, always leave them the way they are so you have known good data to fall back to if your mod stuff breaks.

    Ah.  That's very useful information, thank you...that's going to help me in both time and effort.


 

Offline 0rph3u5

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don't you have to add some information to the model so the game knows where the hardpoint is?  I thought probably yes. [...]

Definitively yes. The game should give you an error messsage if the information for the weapon banks in the model and the table do not line up.

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Three secondary slots for the Myrmidon! [...] Only now I go into FS2 and find that the placeholder on the loadout screen for the 3rd secondary slot remains. 

That's not new. The Myrm always had three secondary banks, only the text description says it has two.

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Only now I go into FS2 and find that the placeholder on the loadout screen for the 3rd secondary slot remains.

Do you use 3d models for ship selection or the old 2d mask files ("Use 3d modesl for ship selection" or similar text flag)? because the mask files have the slots painted on the image.

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Is it possible to add a completely new ship to the campaign?

That is very easy. thanks to modular tables (.tbm) you don't even need to hack into the retail tables for that.

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I find it a little irritating that so many of the ships in FS1 only have one secondary hardpoint [...]why the crap can't you put a Harpoon in a Myrmidon

Balancing - in both vanilla versions all hardpoints share the same loadout options, so doubling up on weapons is a thing that is possible rather than diversifing a player's loadout across the slots.

Modern FSO allows you to set the loadouts options specific to each slot (e.g. restricting the Zeus capacity to carry Cyclops to the 3rd bank in order to promote player to load other munitions*). The only issue that remains there would be to signal the restrictions.

* I can wholeheartetly recommend imposing such restrictions to all bombers in order to make the choices more meaningful.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2021, 01:50:46 pm by 0rph3u5 »
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

==================

"I am Curiosity, and I've always wondered what would become of you, here at the end of the world." - The Guide/The Curious Other, Othercide

"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nyrissa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."

 
Some advice for the future, please never modify any of the retail files directly unless you have a very very good reason. Instead, make your own separate mod in Knossos where you can override stuff from retail without fear of breaking everything if you make a mistake.

On your question of adding new ships, it is very very easy to add a ship that someone else has made and posted the files for, to the game. There is an entire list of these user made ships that are extremely easy to download and add, here: https://wiki.hard-light.net/index.php/User-made_Ships

If you would like some guidance/tutorials on how to add these ships, then these two guides should help you figure things out:
https://wiki.hard-light.net/index.php/Tutorial_-_How_to_make_a_mod_from_scratch
https://wiki.hard-light.net/index.php/Ships_and_General_Mod_Creation
(The second one is a bit outdated, but can still be helpful. Just only read the 'Adding A Ship' section and then really only follow steps 1, 4, and 5)

Once you have added a new ship, you can then use FRED to create playable missions which use that ship. (FRED Tutorial: http://fredzone.hard-light.net/freddocs/)

If you have any troubles, don't hesitate to ask for help either here, or you can generally get really fast and good help on the Discord (https://discord.gg/QFdueKEYrN)