Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Rick James on October 07, 2008, 12:55:38 pm
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I think we can all agree that the GVC Aten is pretty much crap. As an exercise in design, what would people here do to change or upgrade the Aten to be a more effective combat vessel?
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Upgrade the aden changing it's actual form?? (mesh I think they call it).
Or you mean by adding different kind of weapons and moving the subsistems to other "less exposed" sections of the hull?
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Er, right. Maybe I should clarify. Yeah, I mean changing things like weapons, weapons placement, armor and speed ratings, and whatnot.
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Make all turrets flak except for the two or three with the best firing arcs and put AAAf on those.
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well for a start I would replace the two forward laser turrets with AAA turrets, and that should prove enought, unleast against fighters, and you would still be leaving a weak spot (from the bottom) from where to attack, also moving the engine subsystem to somewhere else, like from a side of one of the thrusters
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Add 4 Ultra-AAAs, 2 on the top, 2 on the bottom, Several Flak Batteries, and BFReds on all other Turrets. Increase armour to 1000000 hitpoints.
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For a start, better AAA coverage (no extra turrets needed - moving them around with suffice)
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For a start, better AAA coverage (no extra turrets needed - moving them around with suffice)
you think?? almost all of the turrets are weak lasers, no threat at all to an ares, herc II or any kind of bomber/sub-bomber.
there's an imposible spot to hit though, the turrets at the sides of the engines are all but imposible to hit!, putting two AAA beams there will give lots of trouble to the human players.
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Vasudan ships are traditionally top heavy with weak undersides in the firepower department. If you want to start moving turrets around, make a Terran ship instead.
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The main Vasudan weakness is IMO their obsession with making their ships look artistic. By doing this they increase the surface area of the ship massively, meaning they have to include more turrets to cover all the weak spots of the ship. The turret's firing arcs are also horribly effected. Then the GTVA was formed and the Terrans got affected by Vasudan design flaws. The Orion's a big brick, while the Hecate is littered with little holes you can hide in and launch Cyclopes. If the Hecate had twice the amount of turrets I guess it would be effective, but if the Orion had as many turrets as the Hecate it would be one hard bugger to kill.
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The main Vasudan weakness is IMO their obsession with making their ships look artistic. By doing this they increase the surface area of the ship massively, meaning they have to include more turrets to cover all the weak spots of the ship. The turret's firing arcs are also horribly effected. Then the GTVA was formed and the Terrans got affected by Vasudan design flaws. The Orion's a big brick, while the Hecate is littered with little holes you can hide in and launch Cyclopes. If the Hecate had twice the amount of turrets I guess it would be effective, but if the Orion had as many turrets as the Hecate it would be one hard bugger to kill.
QFT. I have a Orion with 27 turrets...NOT fun to attack.
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The main Vasudan weakness is IMO their obsession with making their ships look artistic. By doing this they increase the surface area of the ship massively, meaning they have to include more turrets to cover all the weak spots of the ship. The turret's firing arcs are also horribly effected. Then the GTVA was formed and the Terrans got affected by Vasudan design flaws. The Orion's a big brick, while the Hecate is littered with little holes you can hide in and launch Cyclopes. If the Hecate had twice the amount of turrets I guess it would be effective, but if the Orion had as many turrets as the Hecate it would be one hard bugger to kill.
The Hecate's design is irrelevant. It's a fighter carrier, if enemy fighters are sitting in little nooks and crannies and not getting their ass shot off by defending fighters there's something wrong.
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Build the Mentu instead.
The Aten I think was meant to be an older design...it doesn't even stand up well versus a Fenris and we know how bad those are too.
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Build the Mentu instead.
The Aten I think was meant to be an older design...it doesn't even stand up well versus a Fenris and we know how bad those are too.
Agreed, the Mentu is kinda supposed to be garbage. I tell you what, though, if you fly over that thing, it will give you a nice thrashing from its dual-AAAs. And then you sneeze on it, and it dies.
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Put a new beam (or two), SVas#weak, and two AAAf's. Extra speed and manouverability, but leave exposed subsystems to "compensate".
Build the Mentu instead.
The Aten I think was meant to be an older design...it doesn't even stand up well versus a Fenris and we know how bad those are too.
Agreed, the Mentu is kinda supposed to be garbage. I tell you what, though, if you fly over that thing, it will give you a nice thrashing from its dual-AAAs. And then you sneeze on it, and it dies.
:wtf: Doesn't the Mentu have 60 000 hitpoints? It won't just "die".
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Put a new beam (or two), SVas#weak, and two AAAf's. Extra speed and manouverability, but leave exposed subsystems to "compensate".
Build the Mentu instead.
The Aten I think was meant to be an older design...it doesn't even stand up well versus a Fenris and we know how bad those are too.
Agreed, the Mentu is kinda supposed to be garbage. I tell you what, though, if you fly over that thing, it will give you a nice thrashing from its dual-AAAs. And then you sneeze on it, and it dies.
:wtf: Doesn't the Mentu have 60 000 hitpoints? It won't just "die".
Whoops, I meant Aten... Wow, I should stop posting after 11:00.
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The Aten won't die when you "sneeze" at it; it has 80% more HP than the Fenris. You'll need a lot of "sneezes" to blow it up. The only thing is that you usually sneeze at it with little return fire from it.
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And yet, no matter how you position them, a Fenris will almost invariably be able to take out an Aten in FS1 and there's no contest in FS2
The Aten would be fixable by increasing turret armor (even at the expense of some hull points) and additional AAA weapons. The Aten actually has decent turret placement, but could use more turrets and better weapons. A beam weapon might be nice for taking on civilian and gunship type targets (Posidens can do a lot of damage to an Aten as is.) If not a beam weapon even a Fusion mortar.
The Fenris, in spite of its comparatively weak armor, is still far more effective than the Aten in every way in both games.
The Mentu is an excellent distraction. It doesn't have the firepower to be a serious threat to anything, but it can take down a few bombs, and absorb quite a few more. It can't really take out a competent player by any stretch, I'd take two Leviathans or an Aeolus over four Mentus, which I would take over eight Atens, when it comes to anti-fighter ability anyway.
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Obviously increase its pitiful armour . . . provide additional AAAf beams . . . perhaps increase engine speed so at least it can complete it waypoint paths faster or only absorb 1/2 the amount of a non-slash beam.
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Add additional ULTRA Anti-Fighter Beams, as well as a VSlash or SVas.
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I game Mentu 2x2 Vasudan Huge turrets (almost 2000 damage per shot).....it made it into a far more deadly craft. For other cruisers and transports.
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Perhaps a Standard Flak? :nervous:
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I like the flat surfaces of Vasudan ships. Ever find yourself running from a pack of missiles? Just swoop underneath the Sobek or the Aten, missiles impact the ship and meanwhile all its defenses cut apart the incoming bad guys. Swooping behind terran ships isn't quite as easy and surefire.
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Theoretically the flat design makes it much easier to have a higher number of turrets guarding the average square unit of hull, but the Aten has so few turrets, and the Mentu such weak turrets, that this advantage is never really exploited.
Imagine an Aten with the nine turrets of a Fenris or Leviathan (that's 3 more) and approximately the same armament. With the AAA and flaks, all on two flat surfaces, the Aten would be a terror to attack.
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Every ship should have a weak spot, the problem seems to be that the Aten is just too weak... compared with other craft of course, even 2 isis together would present a more decent threat to the player than a single aten.
I wonder where would a vasudan commander like to be in on a rought situation... on an isis or on an aten?
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Isis, since it can go over twice as fast and can almost outrun an Ursa.
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Plus, when the Isis takes a few hits, its pilot starts behaving like an attention-deficit 5-year-old on speed. It's hard for enemy pilots to shoot at you when you're busy colliding with them.
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Yes, but the Isis is just wasting time, giving enemy pilots to rush over to the Isis to increase the fire against the transport, when it could have jumped out sooner. However, I agree: an Isis gone crazy is immensely difficult to hit with primaries, much less than a Cyclops.
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What happens if we set all of the Aten's guns to ULTRA Anti-Fighter Beams? :drevil:
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I love the Atens form, give it small beams (one on each side) and one Triple A turret on top, and a flak astern. the rest is negligable.
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Doesn't The Procyon Insurgency make Atens dangerous cruisers?
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Doesn't The Procyon Insurgency make Atens dangerous cruisers?
Procyon Insurgency makes even the ship selection screen dangerous.
Srsly, though. Great campaign. Damn challenging but still addictive.
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SGWP2 beats em all :doubt: so :p
I think of all the FS1 craft, the Aten has the most pleasing shape. :yes:
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The Fenris just feels right to me in FS1, like a big block of weapons with an engine.
Plus the demo made me love the Orff.
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Include VA's new Aten upgrades... :nervous:
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SGWP2 beats em all :doubt: so :p
SGWP2?
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Second Great War, part 2.
A joke campaign. Its epic.
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Actually... I don't think it's meant to be a joke
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And that's what makes it epic. :p
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Good point :lol::yes:
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Indeed. Had the author said "I made this joke campaign so that people could laugh. My friend played it and said it was funny.", most of us would have probably just yawned at the thing. But when he specifically tried to make the Ultimate Campaign, you just gotta lol.
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Indeed. Had the author said "I made this joke campaign so that people could laugh. My friend played it and said it was funny.", most of us would have probably just yawned at the thing. But when he specifically tried to make the Ultimate Campaign, you just gotta lol.
So you mean he tried too hard and the campaign was JAD standard even though it wasn't supposed to be so?
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Haven't you played it yet?
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Indeed. Had the author said "I made this joke campaign so that people could laugh. My friend played it and said it was funny.", most of us would have probably just yawned at the thing. But when he specifically tried to make the Ultimate Campaign, you just gotta lol.
So you mean he tried too hard and the campaign was JAD standard even though it wasn't supposed to be so?
Sort of. The dude tried to make an epic campaign by including bombing missions, intercepting missions, "unique" recon missions, Saths on our side, a Colossus on the enemy side and *drumroll*... a "collapse node". And you're on the wrong side of it.
Eh, just play the damn thing.
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The best mission out of that whole mess was still the "blow up 18 stationary Shivan cruisers/corvettes/destroyers by yourself, just because" one. There was something intensely visceral about wasting dual Helioses to take out a Cain. :D
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SGWP2 was extremely enjoyable.
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As far as making the Aten more effective when it was supposed to be, it was fairly dangerous to fighters before shields. I would have improved it by making the two turret models anti-fighter turrets and adding a few more plasma bursts around the hull. It had more than twice the armor of the Fenris in FS1, yet it still fell to the Fenris 1 on 1.
I would say they were meant to be deployed in hunter killer packs of two or three, but whenever we saw them in FS1 they were alone.
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If the Aten was designed to be anti-fighter or a hindrance to the enemy, I'd much prefer to use Satis as gunboats.
They are faster, smaller and harder to hit with anti-cap beams. Even outfitted with one AAA can make a Satis dangerous, especially in groups.
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The Aten's dorsal protection could be improved by moving the button turrets to the sloped surfaces, giving them a better forward firing solution. I would however, like to see someone make an FS2 upgraded Aten, with a few more turrets (as many have suggested) and putting a forward beam turret in the nose, with a weak slash or something. Maybe after the loss of so many ships to the Shivans, GTVA had to pull some old ships out of mothballs and give them upgrades.
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I know Satis freighters seem like better warships, but maybe they just don't have the capability to support a military crew for long durations or don't have the advanced weapons control systems that might be found on a cruiser. They were designed as freighters, after all. Heavily armored, yes; subspace drives? No.
How effective can a ship be as a warship if it doesn't have subspace drives?
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My mistake. I should have said using the core design of the Satis. Then just modify the unnecessary parts of the Satis to optimal fighting capability. Instead of having space for cargo, perhaps the things that you listed might be added. :)
But these gunboats aren't meant to be used in solo attacks. More like a firing support.
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A Satis variant with a subspace drive and some extra electronics would be a great thing. It's still sad that the Aten is one of the Vasudan's "better" warships.
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The Aten in the first mission of The Procyon Insurgency looked pretty formidable. :nervous:
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It still gets pwned by asteroids if you don't look after it :doubt:
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It still gets pwned by asteroids if you don't look after it :doubt:
The Aten manages just fine on its own. It's those damned Bes freighters that'll get you...
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Yeah...I saw one of them drop from 75% to 50% once, and I went, "How did that happen?"
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I know Satis freighters seem like better warships, but maybe they just don't have the capability to support a military crew for long durations or don't have the advanced weapons control systems that might be found on a cruiser. They were designed as freighters, after all. Heavily armored, yes; subspace drives? No.
Most Satises in FS1 had fully functional subspace drives. I suspect Iotas 1 and 2 in the first mission of FS2 were atmospheric planetary versions (which can go into space, but not warp).
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SGWP2 beats em all :doubt: so :p
I think of all the FS1 craft, the Aten has the most pleasing shape. :yes:
DL link?
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SGWP2 beats em all :doubt: so :p
I think of all the FS1 craft, the Aten has the most pleasing shape. :yes:
DL link?
http://freespacemods.net/download.php?view.40
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Ha...how'd I get quoted in the Wiki entry for it? :lol:
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SGWP2 beats em all :doubt: so :p
I think of all the FS1 craft, the Aten has the most pleasing phalli... pleasing shape. :yes:
:yes:
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Ha...how'd I get quoted in the Wiki entry for it? :lol:
For which article?
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The campaign in question. :p
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I don't get it... :confused:
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There is a problem with Vasudan desings... little turret number with poor armor... in FS1 the Orion kick Typhoon ass too easily, after 3 min the Typhoon dont have any turret left.
In a Fenris vs Aten there is the same problem... in FS2 the diferences just increased.
About the Aten and Mentu... well i see a problem here none of them have anti-cap weapons!
The Mentu need to reemplace 2 of those laser turrets with Vslash.
and the Aten, well... with something like this is enoght.
$Name: GVC Aten
$Short name: VCruise2
$Species: Vasudan
+Tech Description:
XSTR(
"The GVC Aten is among the smallest of the GTVA's cruiser classes, with thin armor and only a few, relatively weak turrets. Terran fighters and bombers exploited these weaknesses during the early years of the Great War, when the Terrans and Vasudans were still enemies. The Aten is most often seen in the current conflict as a rear-guard defense for convoys or installations, backing up wings of fighters and bombers.", 3131)
$end_multi_text
$POF file: cruiser02.pof
$Detail distance: (0, 800, 1600, 6000)
$Show damage: YES
$Density: 1
$Damp: 0.2
$Rotdamp: 1.0
$Max Velocity: 0.0, 0.0, 25.0
$Rotation time: 110.0, 110.0, 75.0
$Rear Velocity: 0.0
$Forward accel: 10.0
$Forward decel: 5.0
$Slide accel: 0.0
$Slide decel: 0.0
$Expl inner rad: 150.0
$Expl outer rad: 650.0
$Expl damage: 200.0
$Expl blast: 10000.0
$Expl Propagates: YES ;; If set to Yes, then when the ship dies, the explosion propagates through it.
$Shockwave Speed: 500.0 ;; speed shockwave expands at, 0 means no shockwave
$Shockwave Count: 2
$Default PBanks: ()
$Default SBanks: ()
$SBank Capacity: ()
$Shields: 0
$Power Output: 90.0
$Max Oclk Speed: 55.0
$Max Weapon Eng: 100.0
$Hitpoints: 18000
$Flags: ( "cruiser" "in tech database")
$AI Class: Captain
$Afterburner: NO
$Countermeasures: 0
$Scan time: 2000
$EngineSnd: 137 ;; Engine sound of ship
$Closeup_pos: 0.0, 0.0, -317
$Closeup_zoom: 0.5
$Score: 90
$Subsystem: turret01a,3.0,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Standard Flak" )
$Subsystem: turret02a,3.0,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Heavy Flak" )
$Subsystem: turret03,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "AAAf" )
$Subsystem: turret04,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "AAAf" )
$Subsystem: turret05,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "AAAf" )
$Subsystem: turret06,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "AAAf" )
$Subsystem: engine, 15,0.0
$Engine Wash: Default100
$Subsystem: communications, 5,0.0
$Subsystem: sensors, 5,0.0
$Subsystem: navigation, 5,0.0
$Subsystem: weapons, 5,0.0
The Mentu with something like this will be good.
$Name: GVC Mentu
$Short name: VCruise21
$Species: Vasudan
+Tech Description:
XSTR(
"The GVC Mentu cruiser is the lightest of the new Vasudan warships. Following the Great War, allied scientists developed the beam cannons that now serve as the primary armaments of today's GTVA warships. Rather than modify existing ships, the Vasudans developed new designs to mount these weapons. The Mentu's 16 turrets include heavy beam cannons for duking it out with other warships, as well as AAA and flak turrets to fend off smaller craft. The GVC Somtus and the GVC Mycerinus recently demonstrated the strength of the Mentu against NTF forces in Epsilon Pegasi.", 3132)
$end_multi_text
$POF file: cruiser2V-01.pof
$Detail distance: (0, 1000, 1600, 11000)
$Show damage: YES
$Density: 1
$Damp: 0.2
$Rotdamp: 1.0
$Max Velocity: 0.0, 0.0, 35.0
$Rotation time: 100.0, 100.0, 65.0
$Rear Velocity: 0.0
$Forward accel: 8.0
$Forward decel: 4.0
$Slide accel: 0.0
$Slide decel: 0.0
$Expl inner rad: 150.0
$Expl outer rad: 650.0
$Expl damage: 200.0
$Expl blast: 10000.0
$Expl Propagates: YES ;; If set to Yes, then when the ship dies, the explosion propagates through it.
$Shockwave Speed: 500.0 ;; speed shockwave expands at, 0 means no shockwave
$Shockwave Count: 2
$Default PBanks: ()
$Default SBanks: ()
$SBank Capacity: ()
$Shields: 0
$Power Output: 100.0
$Max Oclk Speed: 60.0
$Max Weapon Eng: 100.0
$Hitpoints: 60000
$Flags: ( "cruiser" "in tech database")
$AI Class: Captain
$Afterburner: NO
$Countermeasures: 0
$Scan time: 2000
$EngineSnd: 137 ;; Engine sound of ship
$Closeup_pos: 0.0, 0.0, -317
$Closeup_zoom: 0.75
$Score: 100
$Subsystem: turret01,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Heavy Flak" )
$Subsystem: turret02,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Huge Turret" )
$Subsystem: turret03,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "AAAf" )
$Subsystem: turret04,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "AAAf" )
$Subsystem: turret05,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "AAAf" )
$Subsystem: turret06,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "VSlash" )
$Subsystem: turret07,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "VSlash" )
$Subsystem: turret08,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "VSlash" )
$Subsystem: turret09,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "VSlash" )
$Subsystem: turret10,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Standard Flak" )
$Subsystem: turret11,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Standard Flak" )
$Subsystem: turret12,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret" )
$Subsystem: turret13,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret" )
$Subsystem: turret14,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Standard Flak" )
$Subsystem: turret15,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret" )
$Subsystem: turret16,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret" )
$Subsystem: engine, 15, 0.0
$Engine Wash: Default150
$Subsystem: communications, 5,0.0
$Subsystem: sensors, 5,0.0
$Subsystem: navigation, 5,0.0
$Subsystem: weapons, 5,0.0
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*Snip*
Whoa.... Welcome back ShivanSpS. Been a while since we've seen you around these here parts!
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I was thinking that either the Aten or Mentu could be the Vasudans' SC Lilith if you equip either one with a BVas.
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I think giving the Aten and Mentu the same anit-capital firepower as the Sobek might be overdoing it a little.
2 Vslash? How about an LTerSlash equivalent? 1 for the Aten and 2 for the mentu.
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When you look at the Aten, however, it looks like it was designed to be upgraded with two beams; one on each prong. As for the Mentu, it could have a single cannon on those "teeth".
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The Mentu with something like this will be good.
$Name: GVC Mentu
$Short name: VCruise21
$Species: Vasudan
+Tech Description:
XSTR(
"The GVC Mentu cruiser is the lightest of the new Vasudan warships. Following the Great War, allied scientists developed the beam cannons that now serve as the primary armaments of today's GTVA warships. Rather than modify existing ships, the Vasudans developed new designs to mount these weapons. The Mentu's 16 turrets include heavy beam cannons for duking it out with other warships, as well as AAA and flak turrets to fend off smaller craft. The GVC Somtus and the GVC Mycerinus recently demonstrated the strength of the Mentu against NTF forces in Epsilon Pegasi.", 3132)
$end_multi_text
$POF file: cruiser2V-01.pof
$Detail distance: (0, 1000, 1600, 11000)
$Show damage: YES
$Density: 1
$Damp: 0.2
$Rotdamp: 1.0
$Max Velocity: 0.0, 0.0, 35.0
$Rotation time: 100.0, 100.0, 65.0
$Rear Velocity: 0.0
$Forward accel: 8.0
$Forward decel: 4.0
$Slide accel: 0.0
$Slide decel: 0.0
$Expl inner rad: 150.0
$Expl outer rad: 650.0
$Expl damage: 200.0
$Expl blast: 10000.0
$Expl Propagates: YES ;; If set to Yes, then when the ship dies, the explosion propagates through it.
$Shockwave Speed: 500.0 ;; speed shockwave expands at, 0 means no shockwave
$Shockwave Count: 2
$Default PBanks: ()
$Default SBanks: ()
$SBank Capacity: ()
$Shields: 0
$Power Output: 100.0
$Max Oclk Speed: 60.0
$Max Weapon Eng: 100.0
$Hitpoints: 60000
$Flags: ( "cruiser" "in tech database")
$AI Class: Captain
$Afterburner: NO
$Countermeasures: 0
$Scan time: 2000
$EngineSnd: 137 ;; Engine sound of ship
$Closeup_pos: 0.0, 0.0, -317
$Closeup_zoom: 0.75
$Score: 100
$Subsystem: turret01,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Heavy Flak" )
$Subsystem: turret02,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Huge Turret" )
$Subsystem: turret03,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "AAAf" )
$Subsystem: turret04,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "AAAf" )
$Subsystem: turret05,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "AAAf" )
$Subsystem: turret06,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "VSlash" )
$Subsystem: turret07,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "VSlash" )
$Subsystem: turret08,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "VSlash" )
$Subsystem: turret09,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "VSlash" )
$Subsystem: turret10,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Standard Flak" )
$Subsystem: turret11,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Standard Flak" )
$Subsystem: turret12,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret" )
$Subsystem: turret13,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret" )
$Subsystem: turret14,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Standard Flak" )
$Subsystem: turret15,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret" )
$Subsystem: turret16,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret" )
$Subsystem: engine, 15, 0.0
$Engine Wash: Default150
$Subsystem: communications, 5,0.0
$Subsystem: sensors, 5,0.0
$Subsystem: navigation, 5,0.0
$Subsystem: weapons, 5,0.0
Do you realize you've given the Mentu 4 VSlash beams, or twice the firepower of the Sobek?
I do like the "Mentu with BVas" idea, it would indeed be a GTVA version of the Lilith - which is a very dangerous ship. A pack (2-4) of these Mentus would own any destroyer (except maybe the front of a Ravana).
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Do you realize you've given the Mentu 4 VSlash beams, or twice the firepower of the Sobek?
I do like the "Mentu with BVas" idea, it would indeed be a GTVA version of the Lilith - which is a very dangerous ship. A pack (2-4) of these Mentus would own any destroyer (except maybe the front of a Ravana).
[/quote]
But the beams are on the sides, so it will be only be able to use two at one target, and still the Mentu is easier to kill than a Sobek.
BTW, no anti-cap for the Aten, take a look at the Mentu description.
But you could always change one of the flaks for a beam...
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It's still too much. A cruiser is just too small to have more firepower than a corvette. Problems wiht power generation and heat dissipation ya know.
Maybe if you gave is a SVas or two.
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It's still too much. A cruiser is just too small to have more firepower than a corvette. Problems wiht power generation and heat dissipation ya know.
Maybe if you gave is a SVas or two.
The problem is that the Mentu dont have a good spot for only one-and-good anti cap beam turret (i still have no idea of why it dont have one anti-cap, looking at the descrition something got missing there :P)
the minimum is two side turrets.
Maybe this
$Name: GVC Mentu
$Short name: VCruise21
$Species: Vasudan
+Tech Description:
XSTR(
"The GVC Mentu cruiser is the lightest of the new Vasudan warships. Following the Great War, allied scientists developed the beam cannons that now serve as the primary armaments of today's GTVA warships. Rather than modify existing ships, the Vasudans developed new designs to mount these weapons. The Mentu's 16 turrets include heavy beam cannons for duking it out with other warships, as well as AAA and flak turrets to fend off smaller craft. The GVC Somtus and the GVC Mycerinus recently demonstrated the strength of the Mentu against NTF forces in Epsilon Pegasi.", 3132)
$end_multi_text
$POF file: cruiser2V-01.pof
$Detail distance: (0, 1000, 1600, 11000)
$Show damage: YES
$Density: 1
$Damp: 0.2
$Rotdamp: 1.0
$Max Velocity: 0.0, 0.0, 35.0
$Rotation time: 100.0, 100.0, 65.0
$Rear Velocity: 0.0
$Forward accel: 8.0
$Forward decel: 4.0
$Slide accel: 0.0
$Slide decel: 0.0
$Expl inner rad: 150.0
$Expl outer rad: 650.0
$Expl damage: 200.0
$Expl blast: 10000.0
$Expl Propagates: YES ;; If set to Yes, then when the ship dies, the explosion propagates through it.
$Shockwave Speed: 500.0 ;; speed shockwave expands at, 0 means no shockwave
$Shockwave Count: 2
$Default PBanks: ()
$Default SBanks: ()
$SBank Capacity: ()
$Shields: 0
$Power Output: 100.0
$Max Oclk Speed: 60.0
$Max Weapon Eng: 100.0
$Hitpoints: 60000
$Flags: ( "cruiser" "in tech database")
$AI Class: Captain
$Afterburner: NO
$Countermeasures: 0
$Scan time: 2000
$EngineSnd: 137 ;; Engine sound of ship
$Closeup_pos: 0.0, 0.0, -317
$Closeup_zoom: 0.75
$Score: 100
$Subsystem: turret01,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Heavy Flak" )
$Subsystem: turret02,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Huge Turret" )
$Subsystem: turret03,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "AAAf" )
$Subsystem: turret04,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "AAAf" )
$Subsystem: turret05,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "AAAf" )
$Subsystem: turret06,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret" )
$Subsystem: turret07,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret" )
$Subsystem: turret08,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "SVas" )
$Subsystem: turret09,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "SVas" )
$Subsystem: turret10,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Standard Flak" )
$Subsystem: turret11,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Standard Flak" )
$Subsystem: turret12,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret" )
$Subsystem: turret13,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret" )
$Subsystem: turret14,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Standard Flak" )
$Subsystem: turret15,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret" )
$Subsystem: turret16,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret" )
$Subsystem: engine, 15, 0.0
$Engine Wash: Default150
$Subsystem: communications, 5,0.0
$Subsystem: sensors, 5,0.0
$Subsystem: navigation, 5,0.0
$Subsystem: weapons, 5,0.0
4 turrets will be good, even if it where just eye candy...
what about 2 SVas and 2 of those crappy terlash... the ones that are on the hippocrates, they do nearly no damage.
-
Terslash do in fact do damage :wtf:
They do approximately half the damage of a Vslash, which does about 3/4 damage of a BGreen.
2 TerSlash and 2 SRed would be a hideous amount of firepower for a cruiser.
-
Terslash do in fact do damage :wtf:
They do approximately half the damage of a Vslash, which does about 3/4 damage of a BGreen.
2 TerSlash and 2 SRed would be a hideous amount of firepower for a cruiser.
i dont have the tables on hand right now, but i think that the Terslash on the Hippocrates is a lesser one(not the same on the fenris) i remember to have tryied to put a Hippocrates against a Mentu once, and it only managed to do it 5% damage (with the Terslash) before behing destroyed.
(at my stimation) the Mentu needs 4 anti-cap beams (2 on each side, only 1 will be too easily be disabled), it will be the only cruiser in the GTVA fleet with firepower on sides, well, the Fenrins and Levithan can shoot on sides at a very limited angle.
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I just replaced the two Terran Huge Turrets with an SVas each, which is a fairly potent beam, but not overly so. Also, it gives the Mentu a pretty decent anti-warship firing arc, since one beam would be on the top and the other would be on the bottom, and to compensate for the fact that each side only has 1 beam, I beefed up the subsystem armor for those two cannons. Made mincemeat out of a Fenris in a mission I made, took about a minute or so.
-
The LTerSlash is used by both the Fenris and the Hippocrates.
The Svas is the toughest small beam in the game, you might as well give the Fenris a Terslash if you're going to give the Mentu an Svas.
-
I just replaced the two Terran Huge Turrets with an SVas each, which is a fairly potent beam, but not overly so. Also, it gives the Mentu a pretty decent anti-warship firing arc, since one beam would be on the top and the other would be on the bottom, and to compensate for the fact that each side only has 1 beam, I beefed up the subsystem armor for those two cannons. Made mincemeat out of a Fenris in a mission I made, took about a minute or so.
Makes me think of a Hiigaran Battlecruiser.
-
The LTerSlash is used by both the Fenris and the Hippocrates.
The Svas is the toughest small beam in the game, you might as well give the Fenris a Terslash if you're going to give the Mentu an Svas.
I observed that as well, it's really meant as an auxiliary beam on a destroyer. I might wind up making a BMentu table entry which is identical to SVas except it has 2/3 of the damage.
-
The Mentu is more on the Levithan/Aeolus category than the Fenris, you could compare the Fenris with a Aten(who shouldt have any anti-cap beam).
What about 4xLTerSlash(turrets 6,7,8 and 9, -2 on each side-)? how it do it compared to a Sobek and a Levithan?
Or maybe 2xLTerSlash and 2xTerSlash?
The Levi has a TerSlash or a SGreen?
-
The Leviathan has an SGreen, which is one of the most useless beams in the game. A few people argue that the LTerSlash is more useful but I'm not so sure about that.
-
Looking through the ships.tbl it seems :v: intended S (small) beams (or light slash) to be cruiser and secondary capital beams, slash beams to be corvette beams and B (big) as capital ship beams. So IMHO a pair of SVas should be all it has - at most.
-
The Mentu is more on the Levithan/Aeolus category than the Fenris, you could compare the Fenris with a Aten(who shouldt have any anti-cap beam).
What about 4xLTerSlash(turrets 6,7,8 and 9, -2 on each side-)? how it do it compared to a Sobek and a Levithan?
Or maybe 2xLTerSlash and 2xTerSlash?
The Levi has a TerSlash or a SGreen?
Keep in mind, the LTerSlash has about the same damage per minute as an SRed, a bit less since it's a slashing beam. It just has miserable damage per pulse.
-
The Leviathan has an SGreen, which is one of the most useless beams in the game. A few people argue that the LTerSlash is more useful but I'm not so sure about that.
That happens because of the recharge time, which is improbable just like the SRed's one.
-
This post where about the Aten anyway haha....
What about this configuration? its too much or its ok? maindly anti-fighter.
$Name: GVC Aten
$Short name: VCruise2
$Species: Vasudan
+Tech Description:
XSTR(
"The GVC Aten is among the smallest of the GTVA's cruiser classes, with thin armor and only a few, relatively weak turrets. Terran fighters and bombers exploited these weaknesses during the early years of the Great War, when the Terrans and Vasudans were still enemies. The Aten is most often seen in the current conflict as a rear-guard defense for convoys or installations, backing up wings of fighters and bombers.", 3131)
$end_multi_text
$POF file: cruiser02.pof
$Detail distance: (0, 800, 1600, 6000)
$Show damage: YES
$Density: 1
$Damp: 0.2
$Rotdamp: 1.0
$Max Velocity: 0.0, 0.0, 25.0
$Rotation time: 110.0, 110.0, 75.0
$Rear Velocity: 0.0
$Forward accel: 10.0
$Forward decel: 5.0
$Slide accel: 0.0
$Slide decel: 0.0
$Expl inner rad: 150.0
$Expl outer rad: 650.0
$Expl damage: 200.0
$Expl blast: 10000.0
$Expl Propagates: YES ;; If set to Yes, then when the ship dies, the explosion propagates through it.
$Shockwave Speed: 500.0 ;; speed shockwave expands at, 0 means no shockwave
$Shockwave Count: 2
$Default PBanks: ()
$Default SBanks: ()
$SBank Capacity: ()
$Shields: 0
$Power Output: 90.0
$Max Oclk Speed: 55.0
$Max Weapon Eng: 100.0
$Hitpoints: 18000
$Flags: ( "cruiser" "in tech database")
$AI Class: Captain
$Afterburner: NO
$Countermeasures: 0
$Scan time: 2000
$EngineSnd: 137 ;; Engine sound of ship
$Closeup_pos: 0.0, 0.0, -317
$Closeup_zoom: 0.5
$Score: 90
$Subsystem: turret01a,3.0,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Standard Flak" )
$Subsystem: turret02a,3.0,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Heavy Flak" )
$Subsystem: turret03,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "AAAf" )
$Subsystem: turret04,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "AAAf" )
$Subsystem: turret05,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "AAAf" )
$Subsystem: turret06,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "AAAf" )
$Subsystem: engine, 15,0.0
$Engine Wash: Default100
$Subsystem: communications, 5,0.0
$Subsystem: sensors, 5,0.0
$Subsystem: navigation, 5,0.0
$Subsystem: weapons, 5,0.0
About the Mentu... i think this is a good configuration, ill stick with the 4 beams.
$Name: GVC Mentu
$Short name: VCruise21
$Species: Vasudan
+Tech Description:
XSTR(
"The GVC Mentu cruiser is the lightest of the new Vasudan warships. Following the Great War, allied scientists developed the beam cannons that now serve as the primary armaments of today's GTVA warships. Rather than modify existing ships, the Vasudans developed new designs to mount these weapons. The Mentu's 16 turrets include heavy beam cannons for duking it out with other warships, as well as AAA and flak turrets to fend off smaller craft. The GVC Somtus and the GVC Mycerinus recently demonstrated the strength of the Mentu against NTF forces in Epsilon Pegasi.", 3132)
$end_multi_text
$POF file: cruiser2V-01.pof
$Detail distance: (0, 1000, 1600, 11000)
$Show damage: YES
$Density: 1
$Damp: 0.2
$Rotdamp: 1.0
$Max Velocity: 0.0, 0.0, 35.0
$Rotation time: 100.0, 100.0, 65.0
$Rear Velocity: 0.0
$Forward accel: 8.0
$Forward decel: 4.0
$Slide accel: 0.0
$Slide decel: 0.0
$Expl inner rad: 150.0
$Expl outer rad: 650.0
$Expl damage: 200.0
$Expl blast: 10000.0
$Expl Propagates: YES ;; If set to Yes, then when the ship dies, the explosion propagates through it.
$Shockwave Speed: 500.0 ;; speed shockwave expands at, 0 means no shockwave
$Shockwave Count: 2
$Default PBanks: ()
$Default SBanks: ()
$SBank Capacity: ()
$Shields: 0
$Power Output: 100.0
$Max Oclk Speed: 60.0
$Max Weapon Eng: 100.0
$Hitpoints: 60000
$Flags: ( "cruiser" "in tech database")
$AI Class: Captain
$Afterburner: NO
$Countermeasures: 0
$Scan time: 2000
$EngineSnd: 137 ;; Engine sound of ship
$Closeup_pos: 0.0, 0.0, -317
$Closeup_zoom: 0.75
$Score: 100
$Subsystem: turret01,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Heavy Flak" )
$Subsystem: turret02,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Huge Turret" )
$Subsystem: turret03,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "AAAf" )
$Subsystem: turret04,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "AAAf" )
$Subsystem: turret05,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "AAAf" )
$Subsystem: turret06,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "LTerSlash" )
$Subsystem: turret07,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "LTerSlash" )
$Subsystem: turret08,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "LTerSlash" )
$Subsystem: turret09,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "LTerSlash" )
$Subsystem: turret10,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Standard Flak" )
$Subsystem: turret11,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Standard Flak" )
$Subsystem: turret12,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret" )
$Subsystem: turret13,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret" )
$Subsystem: turret14,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Standard Flak" )
$Subsystem: turret15,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret" )
$Subsystem: turret16,0.833,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret" )
$Subsystem: engine, 15, 0.0
$Engine Wash: Default150
$Subsystem: communications, 5,0.0
$Subsystem: sensors, 5,0.0
$Subsystem: navigation, 5,0.0
$Subsystem: weapons, 5,0.0
Maybe its imposible to have a well balanced mentu with making a new beam turret...
-
Just make a weakened Vasudan Slash beam but don't expect it to become a regular presence in official stuff such as the MVPs...
-
I'd just give it 2 SGreen equivalents, that's really the standard firepower a Terran cruiser puts out (2 SGreens, an SGreen and a Fusion Mortar, and an LTerSlash and a Fusion Mortar)
Why do you want to make the Mentu an uber-warship of doom? The Lilith is supposed to be an exception in the cruiser line, not the rule. 4 beams of any type are probably too much, unless you're talking about AAA
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Slap a pair of SVas on and it'll be as good as, if not better than, having for LTerSlashes.
-
I don't recommend putting Terran beams on a Vasudan ship...
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I don't recommend putting Shivan beams on a Vasudan ship for that matter.
A you might be able to get away with using a single VSlash
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Who said to put Shivan beams on?
2 SVas (you know, the small belly-mounted beam on the Hattie)...yeah. Those would do wonders.
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Whoops, sorry, read SVas as SRed for some reason.
Either way one SVas or SRed would give a ship aproximently 4 times the firepower of a single SGreen, thus a Mentu armed with an SVas would still be overpowered compared to an Aeolus.
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An LTerSlash is better than a SGreen... SGreens suck the hairy brown eye.
Also, a Cain has one SRed. Is that overpowered?
The Rakshasa has three, and better armor than the Aeolus to boot...it still loses to getting bathed in flak. As long as the Mentu doesn't get too much flak in its upgrade (since it's already good in the Anti-Fighter area IMO), it won't be OPed.
Not that any of this really matters...(though the fact that the Mentu's tech description contradicts its existence is slightly annoying).
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The Cain is supposed to be overpowered, it's shivan. The Shivans have tremendous anti-capital capability and virtually zero fighter defences. The Vasudans are usually better anti-capital... but not that much better (look at the Hattie vs the Orion and the Sobek vs the Deimos)
The notable exception is Cruisers, of course.
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At any rate, a single VSlash is superior to two SVas (its actually around 3), going by the weapon comparison chart...what you suggested would make it even more OPed :P
I'll settle on one SVas, which is essentially the same as two LTerSlash.
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I just upgraded the SGreen so it's not worse than the Fusion Morter anymore... lowered its recharge to 30, effectively increasing its net DPS by 50%. I've been making a bunch of little tweaks to my tables for the sake of balance. I understand that GTVA weapons should be worse than Shivan, but the SGreen is outdamaged by the ULTRA-AAA, for crying out loud. Also, I've always thought that the Mentu is the Vasudan Aeolus. One SVas (which, with my configuration, is anything the cruiser will probably ever bring to bear at once on anything short of a destroyer) is about as deadly as two of my revised SGreens, which is what the Aeolus can focus. Granted, this is starting to get a bit out of hand insofar as the original scope of this conversation, but still, it's an idea.
EDIT: Just wished to add that I've been testing, and the Mentu is pretty evenly matched with the Aeolus with this setup. It's kinda random which dies first, and the other usually has less than 15% hull integrity left. Both are pretty much hosed by a Rakshasa, though.
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At any rate, a single VSlash is superior to two SVas (its actually around 3), going by the weapon comparison chart...what you suggested would make it even more OPed :P
I'll settle on one SVas, which is essentially the same as two LTerSlash.
Slashing weapons are far less effective at dealing damage than straight shooting ones.
VSlash ~ 2 TerSlash which is slightly better than an SGreen. Thus 1 VSlash is slightly better than 2 SGreens
1 LTerSlash does less damage overall than a SGreen.
Of course, Slash beams are so random, it's very hard to give accurate "Sbeam A > Beam B" comparisons
-
Look at the beam tables on the wiki.
SGreen 61 dps vs LTerSlash 149 dps, provided it gives it full damage, which it won't, so I'll clock it at around 1.5-2 times.
TerSlashes are godly compared to SGreens. A common myth about slash beams is that if they go over a narrow surface, they do less damage. This is not always true. It calcuates how fast it slashes based of its lifetime, so it'll slash the length of an Orion far fasted than slashing it vertically. They're only really horrible when hitting oddly shaped things with holes like the Hippocrates.
A Leviathan with a Green Beam (weaker than TerSlash) is already far superior to the default one with the SGreen. I had a mission where one was defending something from a Fenris. With the SGreen, it hurt the Fenris a bit..and does nothing. Once I replaced the SGreen with a Green Beam, things when much more smoothly. (As in, the Leviathan actually managed to kill the Fenris before the Fenris finished attacking what it was attacking).
My, this has ventured quite far from Atens.
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Not really, we're just discussing what beam the Aten's younger brother should have.
Slash beams are equally accurate for small targets as large targets, however, their accuracy tends to be less that 50%
2 SReds (290 sustained D/S) are superior to 4 TerSlashes (1284 sustained D/S) in anything but a turning fight
-
Aten's younger brother?
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Slash beams are equally accurate for small targets as large targets, however, their accuracy tends to be less that 50%
2 SReds (290 sustained D/S) are superior to 4 TerSlashes (1284 sustained D/S) in anything but a turning fight
I've found Slash Beams to be far more accurate than 50%. They're no different than Direct Fire beams in terms of "connecting" and "not connecting". Given, Direct fire beams "connect" for longer, but also take much longer to reload, especially in the case of the SGreen.
Also, Slash Beams are a lot more dangerous to bomber pilots XD.
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Also, Slash Beams are a lot more dangerous to bomber pilots XD.
QFT. I remember thinking that bombing a Deimos from the fore quarter was a good idea because anti-fighter defenses have a hard time hitting those areas. Then the inevitable happens and I'm left facepalming myself for my stupidity.
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Also, Slash Beams are a lot more dangerous to bomber pilots XD.
QFT. I remember thinking that bombing a Deimos from the fore quarter was a good idea because anti-fighter defenses have a hard time hitting those areas. Then the inevitable happens and I'm left facepalming myself for my stupidity.
For some reason, last time I played through the FS2 campaign, I had to redo the mission with the Lysander and Actium about six times, I kept getting vaporized by their TerSlashes >.<
-
Slash Beams are a lot more dangerous to bomber pilots...
than whatever it is they're shooting at.
-
Oh, I give in.
Fine, give the Mentu a VSlash.
-
What about a fusion mortar or 2?
-
*sneakily sneaks in to post a sneaky post. Sneakily*
I'd increase the speed of the Aten, give it VSlash beams front and AAA beams aft, use Crazy Glue to get a FLAK or AAA beam on the underbelly and look with huge pitiful eyes at Command to put at least a bit of armor on it instead of wet tissue paper that the poor ship has been issued. (At least, on Medium, where you have lots and lots of fun trying to not get the ship blown up/ accidentally blow up/ accidentally on purpose blow up an Aten Class in jury rigged random missions)
Or I'd get the Boadicea in as Aten. (even though I have heard people overhere descibe it as a turd, a caramel pudding and something you want to use as a ball for a game of Colossus Baseball/tennis/pinball)
*rushes out incase of beam cannons or lunch-hungry shivans*
-
Mad Bomber's upgunned Aten...which I'm using. :P
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Oh, I give in.
Fine, give the Mentu a VSlash.
Don't give in. Giving the Mentu a VSlash is an idiotic idea.
-
Giving it a SVas is far worse
-
Giving it a SVas is far worse
So the SVas is more powerful than the VSlash?
:confused:
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Well that's the discussion, the SVas is much more accurate, but the VSlash does roughly 3X the theoretical damage.
Looking at it now though, I didn't realize the VSlash had a 10 second refire
Name Range Refire Beam Type Firing Time D/S Sustained D/S
(SVas) 4000 m 20 s Direct 2.5 s 1925 214
(BVas) 4000 m 24 s Direct 3.7 s 6050 808
(VSlash) 4000 m 10 s Slash 2.0 s 4125 688
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Well I'd have to say that a 10 second refire is basically the end of the argument. Even if it doesn't do its full damage slash, it will still do considerable damage over a long period of time due to its short refire wait.
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I'm for two SVas. They'd make the Mentu a valid counterpart of the Aeolus.
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I'm for two SVas. They'd make the Mentu a valid counterpart of the Aeolus.
Yes me too.
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Except all the Aeolus has are 2 SGreens which are...
Name Range Refire Beam Type Firing Time D/S Sustained D/S
(SVas) 4000 m 20 s Direct 2.5 s 1925 214
(VSlash) 4000 m 10 s Slash 2.0 s 4125 688
(SGreen) 4000 m 45 s Direct 2.5 s 1155 61
absolute rubbish compared to SVas. The SVas does 3.5X the sustained damage / second (the same thing as damage / second in non beam weapons) compared to the SGreen. The SVas is actually more like the VSlash than the SGreen in terms of total potential damage.
If you gave Vasudans an equivalent beam (the VFSVas? TFG .2000?) or slapped a couple of Green Beams on the Aeolus, it might make sense.
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It'd be pretty logical to equip it with two SVas, IMO. There's a problem, though...the angles...a Mentu can't use two beams on an enemy ship on the front.
..but it can use them sidewards. That's why arming it with two side SVas beams shouldn't kill balance...they will never fire on the same target, not at the same time(unless it's a very big one and the Mentu is damn close).
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Imho, methinks the SGreen stats were a oversight on the [V]'s part...well, that and Mentu having no beam at all.
I suppose it's due to the first mission you fly with Suicide Kings. you got that cruiser with a SGreen attacking the station and the transport. If the beam had a 20 second cooldown, the player would be in serious trouble to save the station and the transport. Could be the fire rate was lowered for testing purposes but wasn't brought back later.
Makes you wonder tough, why not just set the turret AI to lowest (that would kill the fire rate, right?)
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I sat down and figured out an approximate maximum damage a second for both the Aeolus and the Mentu. (This assumes 100% turret efficiency, which is never true)
The Aeolus comes out to 1453.4
The Mentu comes out to 1663
If you add 2 SVas to the Mentu it jumps to 2091.
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Wait...so the Mentu already outguns the Aeolus?
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Wait...so the Mentu already outguns the Aeolus?
Only because the SGreen is a fantastic piece of crap.
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Meh, just give it a BVas.
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I sat down and figured out an approximate maximum damage a second for both the Aeolus and the Mentu. (This assumes 100% turret efficiency, which is never true)
The Aeolus comes out to 1453.4
The Mentu comes out to 1663
If you add 2 SVas to the Mentu it jumps to 2091.
I calculated the Mentu at 1119.5 HP/s hull damage, can anyone check it to see which one of us is wrong?
Aeolus has the same output in my check.
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Dear God, you are correct Tiger, I had an extra flak in there and some wonky calculation :wtf:
I still don't have your number though
I'll just post here so that everyone can check me:
Mentu Armament:
Weapon # * D/S/Turret = Combined D/S
Terran Turret = 7 * 43.8 306.8
Terran H Turret = 7 * 41.7 83.4
Standard Flak = 3 * 200 600
Terran H Turret = 7 * 41.7 83.4
AAAF = 3 * 24 72
Subach HL-7 = 1 * 67.5 67.5
Total Combined Damage*Second-1=1063
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You have Terran Huge Turret on there twice?
I get:
7x Terran Turret = 306.6
2x Terran H Turr = 83.4
1x Subach HL-7 = 67.5
3x Standard Flk = 600
3x Anti-Fighter F = 72
TOTAL = 1129.5
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Confirmed.
And the extra Teran Huge Turret wasn't actually counted.
I did something wrong with my spreadsheet though, I'll tell you that.
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I know I'm late, but, I have an Aten model with 10 turrets. Tis not HTL, it's another of Fulgrymm's old models he made for me way back when.
Uploaded to FSMods, and also attached here.
So there. :p
[attachment deleted by Tolwyn]
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Meh if people don't like the Aten or the Mentu just use one of the other user-created ships like the Mekhet or the Somtus or something. Both the Aten and Mentu are fine the way they are imo.
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Unless the Aten improves its armour bigtime, no matter reasonably its turrets are laid out, its going to be cannon fodder.
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The Fenris has fewer hitpoints, but is a more effective warship.
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Sorry, should be "beam fodder"
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Fenris cruisers are actually a threat to a Convoy. An Aten is a minor annoyance.
I'm inclined to believe a pair of Tritons could fight one off with their flak guns.
Its not so much the armor as the pathetic armament.
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Well technically Flak is a seriously powerful weapon... 200 damage per second. I don't know how efficently that is transferred to a warship sized target however. Based purely on that statistic however, it beats out the SGreen by nearly 140 damage a second, and is about as effective as an SVas.
Be that as it may, I'm reasonably sure the Fenris would be victorious against four or so Tritons. And the AAA from the Fenris might just keep the escort off of it long enough to complete its task.
If we were going to be really honest about it, a Myrmidon can p0wn every non fighter warship short of a Sathanas in the game
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Fenris cruisers are actually a threat to a Convoy. An Aten is a minor annoyance.
I'm inclined to believe a pair of Tritons could fight one off with their flak guns.
Its not so much the armor as the pathetic armament.
Convoy hunting???
The upgraded Aten was given AAAf beams. So give it proper opponents, namely enemy fighters. Not freighters.
Who is the enemy in Freespace? The Shivans. How many shivan freighters do you take out? Not very many. But fighters? Heck even the Aten can cut through Shivan fighters like butter with those AAAfs.
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Now 2 AAAs is a good fighter defense?
The Atens best fighter defense is that it's turrets appear to be out of phase or something, because most of the weapons figher aimed at its turrets doesn't seem to do anything. If it's a wing of Herc IIs against either a Fenris, or an Aten, my bets on the Hercs. Something like a Leviathan or a Mentu, has a chance though. All the cruisers can really be heaped into two categories
Crap:
Aten
Fenris
Cain
Not entirely crap:
Aeolus
Mentu
Leviathan
Rakshasa
Lilith (god)
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Lilith (god)
Seriously, if the GTVA ever come round to capturing and unraveling the Lilth's super reactor core/power management component, and apply it to their ships, the GTVA will have no problem establishing themselves as leader of the pack.
Imagine . . . a Hecate with 20000HP and 4 BFBlues . . .
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Well, I think they have, with the Mjolnir, but it's just not practical to implement the technology onto a warship. Maybe the beam cannon draws its power from an independent reactor or something, which is probably the way the Mjolnir works.
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You know, this gives me an idea.
I take my HLC Defiler.. I change the HOL textures with stock vasudan ones. I exchange the top heavy and lower beam turret with new models...maybe tweak a bit here and there... and Voila! Aten Mk2.
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And remove that bottom fin thing too please, or at least shorten it... I always found it weird. :wtf:
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the bottom fin is the beam cannon...so yea, I covered that :P
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Now 2 AAAs is a good fighter defense?
The Atens best fighter defense is that it's turrets appear to be out of phase or something, because most of the weapons figher aimed at its turrets doesn't seem to do anything. If it's a wing of Herc IIs against either a Fenris, or an Aten, my bets on the Hercs. Something like a Leviathan or a Mentu, has a chance though. All the cruisers can really be heaped into two categories
Herc IIs? I don't think the GTVA had civil wars in mind when they upgraded their forces. More likely they were preparing against an inevitable second Shivan invasion. Instead of Herc 2s, why not try Maras or Astaroths or Basilisks vs an Aten.
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Does it really make a difference?
Shivan Hornets are just as bad, even if their primaries are pretty ****ty.
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Shivan primaries are nerfed to give the player a fighting chance. If they were made stronger, all of Alpha 1's wingmen will die in two minutes.
Also keep in mind that the Kayser is derived from Shivan weaponry, so Shivan lasers should theoretically have about the same damage rates as the Kayser.
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Shivan primaries are nerfed to give the player a fighting chance. If they were made stronger, all of Alpha 1's wingmen will die in two minutes.
Also keep in mind that the Kayser is derived from Shivan weaponry, so Shivan lasers should theoretically have about the same damage rates as the Kayser.
Not necesarily.
In COTS I've set all enemy weapons to be 2-3 times are powerwfull compared to stock (damage and rate of fire). It's true that you can no longer chase after a target while being shot in the rear - oh no, you better EVADE those shots mister!
However, it might be prudent to give the players wingmen a higher AI setting. There is a difference in how long they survive, but it's a very small one.
Note than I'm testing my missions with those weapons AND a custom AI profile where the difference between difficulty levels has been greatly reduced, so the AI isn't so gimped on lower settings. Normal is the new hard (to put it mildly).
And I still can get trough missions without loosing almost any wingmen.
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Does it really make a difference?
Shivan Hornets are just as bad, even if their primaries are pretty ****ty.
Uh, Shivans have piss poor hull strengths. That's the difference. Hercules mark II has 275 hit points. Most Shivan fighters have no more than 100. All of their defensive strength is in their shields, the combination of weak hull and strong shields makes them both a challenge for the player and simultaneously makes allied ships with AAAf like the Aten effective support weapons.
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Yes, its one thing I liked about the balance of FS2 gameplay. AAA beams ignore shields, Shivan weak-hulled crafts die quickly. :yes:
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Does it really make a difference?
Shivan Hornets are just as bad, even if their primaries are pretty ****ty.
Uh, Shivans have piss poor hull strengths. That's the difference. Hercules mark II has 275 hit points. Most Shivan fighters have no more than 100. All of their defensive strength is in their shields, the combination of weak hull and strong shields makes them both a challenge for the player and simultaneously makes allied ships with AAAf like the Aten effective support weapons.
There are a few exceptions like the Mara, which has both, but yeah, in general their hull armor is crap. SF Dragons in particular die pretty fast against almost any FS2 capship, especially cruisers.
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When i was working in my campaing i have just increased wingmen hitpoints to make them survive more than 2 min... so you could increase shivan weapong dmg if you also increase wingmen hitpoints.
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The aten welll errr.......i dunt know perhapsh plans 1 vasudan slasher on it and 2 aaaf beams ! and make sure its engines can get it to 35 m/s speed. awesome strike cruiser :D
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I'd leave it as it is, and use it in conjunction with a bomber wing.
The bomber wings go near the Aten for fighter cover with those two AAAfs and Subach's, while the bomber wing goes and eats up any capital ships.
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I might change the Aten to a role of artillery, by sharply increasing its firepower at the cost of its all-round speed.
Having a hi-tech Vasudan reactor, the Aten can be equipped with one frontal BVas, and have a maximum speed of 5.
This new Aten may be moderately cheap, and so it can be deployed in cruiser wings.
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I might change the Aten to a role of artillery, by sharply increasing its firepower at the cost of its all-round speed.
Having a hi-tech Vasudan reactor, the Aten can be equipped with one frontal BVas, and have a maximum speed of 5.
This new Aten may be moderately cheap, and so it can be deployed in cruiser wings.
That is one of the most overkill statements yet in this thread.
I mean, giving the Aten a BVas? That's almost as bad as the Lilith! That wouldn't be cheap by any stretch of the imagination, even with the speed decrease.
That'd be unspeakably expensive and inefficient.
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If you want a Vasudan monitor, use the GVC Somtus (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/GVC_Somtus). Looks the part better.
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If you want a Vasudan monitor, use the GVC Somtus (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/GVC_Somtus). Looks the part better.
Replace the Flaks on that thing with anti-fighter beams and I'd be sold. As it is Flak's lethality is debatable, and can't reliably shoot down bombs.
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If it had AAAs it would be OPed.
Not being able to shoot down bombs makes it more balanced. Weaknesses give ships more 'character'.
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Not to mention more realism. If you plant a big honkin' beam on a cruiser, it's unlikely that you're going to have any energy left over to power AAA beams.
...unless you're the Lilith, because the Lilith is awesome like that.
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If you want a Vasudan monitor, use the GVC Somtus (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/GVC_Somtus). Looks the part better.
Nice. Seems like another person got to the idea and brought it to life before me! ;)
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Am I the only person who sees the ugliness of that thing!?
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No. :)
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I wasn't gonna say anything, but all I can see when I look at that is a giant flying wang. Never been a big fan of tubeships, myself.
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I wasn't gonna say anything, but all I can see when I look at that is a giant flying wang. Never been a big fan of tubeships, myself.
If I were an admin you'd be permabanned for saying that idiotic joke. Again.
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It's like the SCa Shiamak. Worm.
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I wasn't gonna say anything, but all I can see when I look at that is a giant flying wang. Never been a big fan of tubeships, myself.
If I were an admin you'd be permabanned for saying that idiotic joke. Again.
but he's right ya know...
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A bit of tweaking of the good ol' Defiler.... aaaand:
(http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/5567/aten2se9.th.jpg) (http://img397.imageshack.us/my.php?image=aten2se9.jpg)(http://img397.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif) (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)
Aten Mk2... hm...still not satisfied with the turret base and the greensih glowy radiator-like parts.
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Looks quite nice.
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I wasn't gonna say anything, but all I can see when I look at that is a giant flying wang. Never been a big fan of tubeships, myself.
If I were an admin you'd be permabanned for saying that idiotic joke. Again.
Erm, I wasn't aware I'd used that joke before. o_O
As for the Defiler, that is definitely one of the angrier ships I've ever seen. :yes:
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Angry Aten :D
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Any suggestions? Or should I call it a day and convert?
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Erm, I wasn't aware I'd used that joke before. o_O
No, but thousands of others have before you.
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I really don't mean to offend anyone...
but there seems to be a lack of decent looking Vasudan cruisers. There's a lot of pre-HTL models, with varying degrees of success, but none of them
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Any suggestions? Or should I call it a day and convert?
I'd make those green "vent" things either golden yellow (a la the glowing window thingies on a Hatshepsut) or very deep blue (like the lights on an Osiris). They'd make some mighty sexy glowmaps, methinks.
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Any suggestions? Or should I call it a day and convert?
I'd make those green "vent" things either golden yellow (a la the glowing window thingies on a Hatshepsut) or very deep blue (like the lights on an Osiris). They'd make some mighty sexy glowmaps, methinks.
Seconded. I'd prefer gold though that's just me :P
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(http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/5567/aten2se9.th.jpg) (http://img397.imageshack.us/my.php?image=aten2se9.jpg)(http://img397.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif) (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)
Sweet!
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Cool :yes:
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Deadly :D