[HLD_Prophecy]

Hello all, HLD_Prophecy here to bother you AGAIN.    I mentioned getting around to this on the Discord a while ago. Now I'm hoping to make good on that idea.

I'll put it as simply as possible! (Let me talk for ten seconds and I promise you I WILL RANT, so I'll keep the brief brief.)

This is a dump of an old mod I made. Quite some time ago, like on the order of four years or longer since I last closed it up. The files are very outdated and may or may not be radioactive. This is Legendary, my first real mod project and the first one I made substantial progress on. Funnily enough I have never made anything larger since. And that's very much the point: Legendary was supposed to be a narrative/dialogue heavy, two-act, 14 mission campaign with entirely new ships/weapons/combat dynamics.

Entirely too much for one guy to handle. I plugged along, eventually more or less finishing the first act. More or less. Not really.

As it's been sitting on backup for years, I thought it might be fun to take it out of cold storage and see what it looks like now. I know I've learned quite a bit since then. I'd like to talk design ideas, dump plot details, see what y'all think!

And yes. I did have a design document. In my head.  I didn't have it written down on paper. Should have. In all seriousness, though, I had this thing planned. Almost to the letter. Down to each dialogue line, every weapon, where I wanted the ships placed, etc. And I can tell you as much as I can if you like. As best I can; notwithstanding anything I can't remember.

<link removed by OP!>

One final note BEFORE you open up this backup archive: I say again, this was a creation from the mind of a much younger me. A me without FRED experience. Or beta testers. It is extremely outdated. Cringe may be present. (no NSFW I promise, what do you take me for?  ) The contents, namely the "intro" document, may or may not be insightful as to the state of the mod. Furthermore I apologize for the sheer amount of custom community assets present here. My crediting plan was incomplete at the time. I couldn't make assets to save my life. Many of the assets were hacked, shoehorned, and/or renamed to somehow work in my setting.


My hope is to update this topic as I have time, dumping the setting first, then the plot (yes as I said, I knew exactly what was going to happen every mission) then the design ideals/principles/flavors etc.


I hope to be back soon with the setting dump. In the meantime, uh, enjoy I guess! 

Or get out while you can and leave this pile of trash alone...  

Sorry, looks like I failed in my brevity objective.  Oh, and should this be in another forum...?

[HLD_Prophecy]

Quick Reminder: A LOT of the files/comments/stuffs in this archive make no sense out of context. I'll explain it all eventually I promise!

[Nightmare]

I'll read it anyway~

[HLD_Prophecy]

kewl 

[Spoon]

(no NSFW I promise, what do you take me for?  )

Evidently not for some one of fine taste and culture

[Galemp]

What would you say is the highlight of this dump? What single element are you most proud of?

[Nightmare]

Was that the campaign with the futuristic setting, at least a couple hundred years after Capella? Looks rather like a pirate campaign (what is perfectly OK), without any particular starting point aside the numerous new ships.

[HLD_Prophecy]

What would you say is the highlight of this dump? What single element are you most proud of?

Fantastic question, thanks! Wow, that's tough. I think it was the plot to be honest - strangely enough, the plot is possibly what I love/hate most about the mod. Full of forced moments, but I thought it was going to be very cool when Act II came around and the big plot twist that this was a millenia or so after Capella. The Shivans had passed out of living memory, and only a few footnotes in dusty history books helped the characters when a derelict Sathanas shows up... 

Was that the campaign with the futuristic setting, at least a couple hundred years after Capella? Looks rather like a pirate campaign (what is perfectly OK), without any particular starting point aside the numerous new ships.

Xactly! The main enemy was pirate groups, raiders, rogue human factions allied with said pirates/raiders, etc. Big conspiracies behind closed doors, whole systems sold out to crime groups, etc. The human government is particularly weak and posturing, it takes the events of the campaign to bring them to their senses and finally take a stand. The derelict Sathanas I mentioned above does not actually include Shivans - it's hijacked by the villians (with veeeeeery limited control) to be used as a terror weapon - the gun pointed at the head of the universe if you will.



Ran very low on time today guys; which would you like to see first? Design principles/driving ideas/themes or a background/setting summary? Specific plot will have to come after setting.

[HLD_Prophecy]

One more note: the fact that there were a LOT of assets renamed for Pokemon. Yeah that. Deal with it. To quote another academic moke equally educated and unfamiliar with fine taste and culture: I HAVE NO REGRETS 

rly tho come on spoon

i was a younger teenager

[Nightmare]

So this is a pirate campaign set in the future, with humanity grown so big that selling a couple sytems isn't a big deal? Did you have a story how to get from FS2 to there? Did the Shivans just move on or something?

[HLD_Prophecy]

So this is a pirate campaign set in the future, with humanity grown so big that selling a couple sytems isn't a big deal? Did you have a story how to get from FS2 to there? Did the Shivans just move on or something?

Humanity hasn't grown much bigger if at all, systems are basically the same. Government is a twisted mess of loopholes and bureaucratic procedures - it's not actively evil mind you, they have a nominal naval presence and they'll occasionally do something. But even for the few people who really care, it's all but impossible to MOVE anything into action. Also the government tends not to hire/employ/enlist people of action, generally the higher-ups like people who keep their heads down and their words mild.

In short government isn't evil, just bloated and supremely apathetic.

Shivans have not returned since the Second Incursion. Or maybe they did, in secret - thing is nobody really remembers. The last half-remembered vague footnotes recall their appearance in Capella, but that's it. No, they were not intended to show up in this campaign. Also the fate of the Vasudans remains unexplained. They are not there. If they are they were totally unmentioned. My headcanon was that zod systems were now under Terran control. This was equal parts lampshading and cool mystery: Vasudans would have been pretty out of place in the story I wanted to tell, so I just left them out. 

[Nightmare]

And what about technological progress? Right now it seems as if the futuristic date was only there to establish some vastly-different-but-still-FS setting... well I'm not so much convinced so far (though I don't know what you had in mind as plot yet of course), personally I hoped for something like Starforce ( https://wiki.hard-light.net/index.php/The_Starforce_Mod ) as the only other campaigns that I know from that they're set further into the future (OTT started in 2464, Paradigm Shift 80 years after Capella) never delivered.

[HLD_Prophecy]

Wow, never thought this would get this much attention, thanks guys! I'm enjoying opening this idea up once more.   

I guess what you're saying is that if the setting is that far into the future, you need tech advancement to make it convincing - this is where I respectfully disagree with a lot of fiction, especially sci-fi.

I'd like to wait on a proper explanation of the technological situation until I've got more time. To put it as briefly as I can: I study history a lot; it's fun!  One of the conclusions I've come to is that technology need not advance as time passes, or at least not always at the same rate. It could even decrease. This is not experimentally the case so far, but I believe it is theoretically the case especially for the future. Basically I believe in a certain point of diminishing returns. And there need not be a cataclysm to send us back - people could just not feel a need for advancement. Atrophy. Apathy. Or more likely a simple lack of necessity. There are only so many elements, so many alloys. And they can only hold so much energy/stress/information.

There seems to me to be a general feeling that tech and "science" is a never-ending grade upwards, will always get better and better, becoming some kind of transcendent salvation of mankind, FTL travel, de-aging, teleportation, the cure for entropy (ha!). I see it as something that can only improve so much. But that's just my take.

It's interesting to think about, anyway. 

Forgive the esoteric ramble, that's just the bare scaffold of theory that drives my science fiction thoughts. How it plays out in Legendary I'll describe later - it's not really that deep.

[HLD_Prophecy]

Aha, one more thing I've remembered - the intro document contains a mild dig at Blue Planet and Exile. As with the whole work, that was made years ago. I hope people can forgive that.

bp is still kinda weird tho

 

[Nightmare]

Good point with the tech levels, although I disagree somewhat due to reading too much Orions Arm.

However, for most things, you'll always find somebody willing to buy them, and hence spinning the wheel further.

But indeed I needed to invent a stop mechanism for LITF, elseway the plot would've been corrupted somewhat. It's still pretty futuristic with Terrans, Zods and Shivans etc having uploaded their personalities to motherships and pilot robo fighters.

[HLD_Prophecy]

Lol, wrote a way too big post! Cutting it down to size:

As technology rises rapidly, we encounter the very real danger of thinking that we are more than what we are.

That alone should give us pause.

Also in my setting no one is really interested in buying up advanced tech, lol! And it's been that way for quite some time. Save the better funded pirates (who are kinda stupid and don't use it well!) and the main characters... 


Forgive me, what was your stop mechanism again? I don't quite remember how that all went down...


Begging space for one more note: I guess the truth is that I write better fiction in a setting with some "grounding". At a certain point mind control, energy weapons, reality warping, teleporting, artificial "intelligences" (as if!) just get beyond me. I like human stories about humans being humans, not humans acting like they're not human. (Oh look I've transcended old societal and common sense norms now I can talk unintelligible 'erudite' dialogue laced with racial/political/gender commentary suspiciously directed at people of the 21st century becuz the future is that much MOAR!) 

[Nightmare]

Forgive me, what was your stop mechanism again? I don't quite remember how that all went down...

My campaign is - partitially - based on Sushis "The Historian" fanfiction. At some point after FS2 the 3rd Great War happened, and the Shivans ended up being tamed by having their tech implantats overwritten by an ETAK, putting the entire resources the Shivans had (most of the Milky Way) under GTVEA control. Terrans and Vasudans than spread out into the galaxy which was still mostly sterilized by the Shivan actions, and focus switching on individual well-being than common progress by getting supplied by local Shivans; making evereything more static. I had something in mind like medieval Europe or colonial Africa (just without fulfilling the needs of a central colonial power), where stability mattered more than progress.

Still they solved virtually all secrets of the universe, but without the brute computational power of having a true Dyson Sphere full of computronium operating around or inside a star (because if everything's fine, why built one?) they lacked the knowhow to launch attacks upon space-time itself and hence were stuck in this universe when the lights slowly went out...

Admitatly, I didn't took quantum computers into account which to my understanding can create substantial computing power from very little energy, nor Strong AI which would automate progress but I think that's fine with FS where you still need people to pilot fighters in the mid 24th century.

Begging space for one more note: I guess the truth is that I write better fiction in a setting with some "grounding". At a certain point mind control, energy weapons, reality warping, teleporting, artificial "intelligences" (as if!) just get beyond me. I like human stories about humans being humans, not humans acting like they're not human. (Oh look I've transcended old societal and common sense norms now I can talk unintelligible 'erudite' dialogue laced with racial/political/gender commentary suspiciously directed at people of the 21st century becuz the future is that much MOAR!) 

Yeah at the beginning I wanted to write a complete originally story without any relations to FS. But I'm so uncreative with characters (or as in this case the characterisation of entire species) that I ended up with things that were almost identical; use of ships that were originally made for FS didin't help either. So I thought it'd be better if I drop being entirely original and make the best of what I had.

I don't care about any weird racial/political/gender debate (and TBH, in the... almost 6 years I've worked on this I haven't even thought a single time about that until right now, leave alone implemented), I felt the idea whether people who have uploaded their personalities a trillion years ago and existed merely as databanks floating around a dying sun are still "alive" or a mere computerprogramm more interesting.

[HLD_Prophecy]

launch attacks upon space-time itself

because the future is what we make it! 

Interesting that you should bring up "stability mattered more than progress" Did it really, though? Did anyone think that thought or plan that out? I guess what I'd say is that it just happened. But that's my take... Also - Europeans bringing advanced tech into these nations, industrial capability, modern weaponry and farming techniques, urban centers: is that stability over progress? Could it be both added stability and progress?

I felt the idea whether people who have uploaded their personalities a trillion years ago and existed merely as databanks floating around a dying sun are still "alive" or a mere computerprogramm more interesting.

That is pretty darn interesting - at what point would someone "lose" their humanity, if that happened? Would they lose it at all? Would they have forfeited it in the transfer, or are they as much human as the "living" are? I get you, you're asking pretty cool questions and that's very much something fiction can be great at discussing. 


Anyway this is becoming a tad off-topic, my bad! Sorry for the lack of follow-up, I promise I'll post about Legendary once I get my thoughts together. Anyone got an opinion: setting explanation or design principles first?

[Nightmare]

Interesting that you should bring up "stability mattered more than progress" Did it really, though? Did anyone think that thought or plan that out? I guess what I'd say is that it just happened. But that's my take... Also - Europeans bringing advanced tech into these nations, industrial capability, modern weaponry and farming techniques, urban centers: is that stability over progress? Could it be both added stability and progress?

I was rather thinking about the daily live of the Europeans in Africa which was not unlike to those of feudal lords rather than the implications of actual colonialism (compare the development of South Africa - under white rule until 1994 - with the rest of the continent).

That is pretty darn interesting - at what point would someone "lose" their humanity, if that happened? Would they lose it at all? Would they have forfeited it in the transfer, or are they as much human as the "living" are? I get you, you're asking pretty cool questions and that's very much something fiction can be great at discussing. 

My personal line of thought is that they dont change that much the way they think, their brain is just technological instead of bio, everything else can be simulated to a degree. Sure your live will change but you can live in a virtual reality instead. But it might seem pointless from outside.

Anyway this is becoming a tad off-topic, my bad! Sorry for the lack of follow-up, I promise I'll post about Legendary once I get my thoughts together. Anyone got an opinion: setting explanation or design principles first?

Heh don't stop that I was hoping for some discussion.

[HLD_Prophecy]

Lol, more discussion if you want!    But at this point it's becoming a bit of a historical debate-ish on one point, a discussion about humans in a computer on the other. Neither of which are really about Legendary... 

Regarding humans inside a computer: Yeah, it's a useful discussion: if there's no more biological material left, where is the human? I think this points to a piece of humanity outside of the material brain... but that's opening a large, large can of worms... 

Regarding the state of Africans: feudalism is an oft-repeated and kind of misunderstood concept. The actual conditions under which those under lordship lived varied widely from place to place, even within the same country. Blanketing that lordship/serf dynamic under the term "feudal" is dangerously over simplistic. If you compare the conditions of Africans - okay, which one of the myriad forms of that "feudal" dynamic are we talking about?

Mind, and again this is about staying on topic: we need not discuss these things here and now.

My cotton socks I need to get that setting summary up and return to the point!