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Community Projects => The FreeSpace Upgrade Project => Topic started by: fightermedic on December 25, 2015, 08:01:54 am

Title: [Release] GTM Hippocrates
Post by: fightermedic on December 25, 2015, 08:01:54 am
Finally finished: HTL Hippocrates  :D
the download includes the original .png textures in case later changes are needed, and .dds ones, if you want to use this, delete the .png ones before using the HTL model
the new HTL version has a fighterbay, for use in new missions, for people who'd like that
PBR textures are finished as well, and will follow later or if requested

http://www.mediafire.com/download/tp37a3phxgce58w/hippo.rar
(http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b590/lolaldanee/screen0037_zpshxqf2nbg.png~original)
Title: Re: [Release] GTM Hippocrates
Post by: Trivial Psychic on December 25, 2015, 08:10:48 am
It's a Christmas Hanukah Kwanza Holliday miracle!
Title: Re: [Release] GTM Hippocrates
Post by: Nyctaeus on December 25, 2015, 09:41:42 am
Woah :D! Downloading!
Title: Re: [Release] GTM Hippocrates
Post by: mjn.mixael on December 25, 2015, 10:15:35 am
Grabbed for FSU. Nice work!
Title: Re: [Release] GTM Hippocrates
Post by: Hades on December 25, 2015, 10:24:53 am
Couple of immediate issues I see with the .pof, the centerpoint is moved back quite a fair bit which can and will mess with mission timing and movement behavior and there's no Moment of Inertia, and I've tried simply recalculating via PCS2 and what it spits out is is something I've never seen before ("-1.#IND00e+000:-1.#IND00e+000:-1.#IND00e+000" in all fields) which is potentially an issue.
Title: Re: [Release] GTM Hippocrates
Post by: mjn.mixael on December 25, 2015, 10:29:06 am
well, for FSU we'll copy/paste the retail Hippo's MOI and match the centerpoint to that. We'll also copy things like Mass. But these are things that should probably be also fixed here for the general download as well.
Title: Re: [Release] GTM Hippocrates
Post by: fightermedic on December 25, 2015, 12:43:29 pm
the centerpoint should be the one of the retail model, that is simply where it always has been for that one
i actually imported all the information from the old model, no idea how the inertia could have been set to zero, but i will check that

edit: it's really zero, wtf... ok, i will update that later
Title: Re: [Release] GTM Hippocrates
Post by: fightermedic on December 25, 2015, 01:22:40 pm
hm, you are right about the center point too, the actual point in the model is correct, but the pof has an offset specified, that was missing
something must have went wrong with importing all the information from the old model  :banghead:
Title: Re: [Release] GTM Hippocrates
Post by: CapellaGoBoom on December 25, 2015, 05:25:37 pm
Where do I extract the files to make this model work ingame?
Title: Re: [Release] GTM Hippocrates
Post by: fightermedic on December 26, 2015, 02:45:13 am
you have to copy the data folder into your latest mediavps folder
Title: Re: [Release] GTM Hippocrates
Post by: fightermedic on December 26, 2015, 05:43:57 am
updated the download with the fixes, all should be ok now
Title: Re: [Release] GTM Hippocrates
Post by: Cyborg17 on December 26, 2015, 08:50:25 am
Thank you!   It looks like it always should have!  :yes:
Title: Re: [Release] GTM Hippocrates
Post by: BrotherBryon on December 26, 2015, 09:30:29 pm
Thanks fightermedic and any one else involved in getting her finished.
Title: Re: [Release] GTM Hippocrates
Post by: fightermedic on December 27, 2015, 03:13:33 pm
just liked your design, which is pretty cool actually!
Title: Re: [Release] GTM Hippocrates
Post by: Nyctaeus on December 28, 2015, 03:40:01 pm
Hmmm... I must say your way of baking textures is actually strange. I mean large, streched UV isles and 4094x2048 texture, but as long as it's working I have nothing to complain.

Three alternate "damage" textures are actually the strangest thing. Are they needed for something?
Title: Re: [Release] GTM Hippocrates
Post by: fightermedic on December 29, 2015, 06:05:49 am
no, that was a case of "oops, i forgot to import two -destroyed submodels when initially creating the pof, i have to do it later" and then the software creates a new texture if it doesn't find a texture with that name yet, which in this case it didn't, i realized to late i forgot to name the damage texture the right way when importing, but in the end figured it doesn't really make a difference
Title: Re: [Release] GTM Hippocrates
Post by: Nyctaeus on December 29, 2015, 09:34:55 am
Yeah, the old and cool feature... PCS2 see the difference between "Damage" and "damage" :P
Title: Re: [Release] GTM Hippocrates
Post by: Cobra on January 04, 2016, 01:27:19 am
Sweet CHRIST, why is this download 140 MB?
Title: Re: [Release] GTM Hippocrates
Post by: niffiwan on January 04, 2016, 02:28:48 am
the download includes the original .png textures in case later changes are needed, and .dds ones, if you want to use this, delete the .png ones before using the HTL model

Maybe this?
Title: Re: [Release] GTM Hippocrates
Post by: Cobra on January 04, 2016, 02:40:47 am
the download includes the original .png textures in case later changes are needed, and .dds ones, if you want to use this, delete the .png ones before using the HTL model

Maybe this?


Ah.

[EDIT] The .dds files are bigger than the .png files. Huh.

Maps folder is still 128MB without the .png's. Ouch.
Title: Re: [Release] GTM Hippocrates
Post by: niffiwan on January 04, 2016, 02:52:16 am
AFAIK DDS use fixed compression (dxt1c is 8:1, dxt5 is 4:1), whereas PNGs use variable length (zlib) compression which means that certain files (e.g. glow with lots of "black") can compress much better.
Title: Re: [Release] GTM Hippocrates
Post by: fightermedic on January 04, 2016, 04:43:03 am
the map files are 8k * 4k, of course they are really big, they should maybe be scaled down for use in the media vps, but i leave that decision to other people
Title: Re: [Release] GTM Hippocrates
Post by: Rheyah on January 12, 2017, 03:47:59 pm
Finally finished: HTL Hippocrates  :D
the download includes the original .png textures in case later changes are needed, and .dds ones, if you want to use this, delete the .png ones before using the HTL model
the new HTL version has a fighterbay, for use in new missions, for people who'd like that
PBR textures are finished as well, and will follow later or if requested

http://www.mediafire.com/download/tp37a3phxgce58w/hippo.rar
(http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b590/lolaldanee/screen0037_zpshxqf2nbg.png~original)

Genuinely beautiful ship.

Cheers bomberdoctor.
Title: Re: [Release] GTM Hippocrates
Post by: technopredator on September 02, 2017, 12:08:00 am
Thank you but how do I install this?
Title: Re: [Release] GTM Hippocrates
Post by: Cobra on September 02, 2017, 12:49:10 am
Put the data folder in your mediavps folder. It's not like the base install doesn't have the same folders or anything...
Title: Re: [Release] GTM Hippocrates
Post by: technopredator on September 02, 2017, 08:34:03 am
Well first, there is no data folder in the file I'm seeing: Leviatan 1.0.7z, this ship is downloading right now, but I think what you mean is that I have to put the ship files and folders into the game data folder and the game would take those models instead of the MediaVPs_2014? such affirmation is not implied necessarily, as I don't know how the game works, only modders and developers do, so you're assuming too much, you assume I know that's how the game works, it could well be, but there is no way for me to know, besides I read on another thread that you make the replacement on the .vp files with 'vpview' which is a viewer not an editor, so the little info I got was confusing and wrong, and I don't think it'd be hard to put simple instructions on the OP of every upgrade, as you just did. The way this upgrades are presented seem they're intended for the people that somehow know about upgrades and the rest is not considered in the least. Another possibility is making a thread, a sticky maybe, how to apply these improvement and then just add the link to the OP as I have seen in many other improvement types, I find strange to not find them here, being so important for the game.
Title: Re: [Release] GTM Hippocrates
Post by: Cobra on September 02, 2017, 09:36:41 am
It's almost like we have a wiki for this sort of thing and a board with links on how-tos.

http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Installing_Mods_for_FS2_Open

Really, it's friggin' simple, and I figured out how to install ship mods on my own 15 years ago before I even found this site. You have a data folder in the root FS2 folder. it leads to all the other ones, like maps, models, tables. Open up a VP, the folders are the same. Mod folders follow the same hierarchy.
Title: Re: [Release] GTM Hippocrates
Post by: technopredator on September 02, 2017, 04:19:43 pm
Well I didn't know where the info was, I know how mods work, with an .ini file you need to add to the list of mod, but this is not a mod and does not have a .ini file but part of the main/core files of the game, so I though some special configuration had to be done about it, also other people were asking this, and some of them were not even given an answer, and there is no way to see the .vp files unless you search for a viewer/compressor, which I found by chance and yes I saw the structure of all the .vp files, but that doesn't necessarily means is that simple, simple thinking is generally wrong, but seems in this case you were right to apply such simple logic, specially when it clearly says exactly the opposite of what you just wrote me:
Quote
Do NOT install anything to Freespace2\data or into the root FreeSpace 2 folder regardless of what the instructions say.
But as I mentioned these are the improved "retail" files therefore apparently should be put on those directories/folders. That's why I suggested clear and simple instructions on the OP to avoid confusion for people that ignore this.
Anyway thanks for the help
Title: Re: [Release] GTM Hippocrates
Post by: General Battuta on September 02, 2017, 06:43:58 pm
Don't put anything in FreeSpace2\data, put it in FreeSpace2/mediavps2014/data (or whatever your mediavps folder is called)
Title: Re: [Release] GTM Hippocrates
Post by: technopredator on September 02, 2017, 07:06:58 pm
Oh I see, thanks for the correction, 1 more reason to be confused and to put this directions on the OP. I hope you're not joking
Title: Re: [Release] GTM Hippocrates
Post by: Cobra on September 02, 2017, 07:21:53 pm
Oh I see, thanks for the correction, 1 more reason to be confused and to put this directions on the OP. I hope you're not joking

The OFFICIAL HLP WIKI says "DO NOT INSTALL TO ROOT FS2 DATA FOLDER." If you try to put the blame for misunderstanding on me, know that I tried to use the root data folder and its subfolders as a reference for you to visualize, since my installs have always created a data folder with all the appropriate subfolders.

And you are seriously taking this "improved retail" thing too far. ALL of the FreeSpace Upgrade project is "improved retail." That doesn't mean we completely override the base game. (We do that to make sure nothing breaks.) It's not that difficult.
Title: Re: [Release] GTM Hippocrates
Post by: technopredator on September 02, 2017, 11:55:09 pm
Well Cobra I blame you partially because, again I must assume from ignorance to fill up the blanks, and you have more experience on modding and the game than me, I got your reference but for you is easy you know how the game works, I'm returning after many years and I forgot some things, also never installed mods with individual upgrades just the full package with the .ini file never had to look for the folder structure, and you never actually told me where to uncompress the files, so these files would be a mod for the main game, so I assumed given your only reference and the nature of these file that they should go where the main modded files would go IMO, the root data folder, I didn't realize that the new ships are within the the MediaVPs_2014 and this was the best place to put them.

Anyway I was wondering, are you sure that just putting them in let's say MediaVPs_2014\Data will be enough for the new 3.8.0 takes them as a replacement for the ones on MediaVPs_2014? And BTW the new files are redundant, wouldn't be better to replace in the .vp files?
Title: Re: [Release] GTM Hippocrates
Post by: Mongoose on September 03, 2017, 03:02:22 am
Let's all keep in mind that even though the FS mod structure is intimately familiar to those of us who were downloading campaigns long before mod.ini files were ever a thing (when did they first show up?), it's definitely not to newer or more infrequent players.  Expecting newbies to dig through the wiki for fairly-specific answers isn't really practical, or even desired; there's a very good reason the community has been trying to make the game easier and easier to get up and running over the years.  While it may seem frustrating to see questions that have been asked a thousand times before, take a moment and think about the fact that you were once asking those same questions too.

Anyway I was wondering, are you that just putting them in let's say MediaVPs_2014\Data will be enough for the new 3.8.0 takes them as a replacement for the ones on MediaVPs_2014? And BTW the new files are redundant, wouldn't be better to replace in the .vp files?

Yes, any files put in a proper subfolder of MediaVPs_2014\data\ will act as replacements of the files in the MediaVPs themselves.  Volition originally designed the retail FS filesystem in terms of hierarchy: the highest level is files in the \data\ folder, then in the retail VP files in the root game folder, with the versions in \data\ taking priority over those in the VP files.  It's a simple but very flexible system that lets you drop in replacements for any of the retail files at will, and its ease of use is probably the primary reason why FS modding took off the way it did in the first place.  The Source Code Project later added the mod folder system to FS2_Open, and it basically acts as an extension of the retail system.  The highest level of all (except in really weird edge cases) is the \data\ folder in your currently-selected mod, then any VP files in that mod, then any mods that may be listed in the mod.ini file's secondary mod list, then finally the original retail \data\ folder and VP files.  The reason you shouldn't put much of anything in the retail \data\ folder is because it'll show up in the progression of every single mod you select, which could cause conflicts and unintended behavior or game crashes.  Updated retail ship models and textures work best in the MediaVPs data folder because then they'll be applied to every other mod which uses the MediaVPs as a secondary mod, which tends to be most of them.

And no, you should absolutely never replace any of the files in the MediaVPs themselves (not to mention the original retail VPs).  The reason for this is simple: if you start experiencing errors, then anyone providing support is going to assume that your MediaVP files are the same as everyone else's, so if the problem is being caused by whatever you put into the VP files, it'll be much harder to track down.  (In fact, the log file FS2_Open spits out contains information about the size of the VP files, so if they don't match the expected values, people will probably assume yours are corrupted.)  The really great thing about the FS modding system's modularity is that you don't even have to touch any VP files: whatever you drop into a \data\ folder will override them anyway without needing to edit them.  The most popular VP-related piece of software, VPView, was a read-only tool for this exact reason.  The only people who really have the need to edit VP files are mod creators, and they generally only package all their mod files into VPs when it's time to release the mod.

Hopefully this explanation made sense.  It may seem a bit overwhelming at first, but you'll get the hang of it before too long. :)
Title: Re: [Release] GTM Hippocrates
Post by: technopredator on September 03, 2017, 10:23:35 am
Thank you for the clarification, I appreciate such detailed and complete explanation. But I have a question, wxLauncher shows me the MediaVPs_2014 and the 2014 PBR mods, should I use the MediaVPs_2014, so the 2014 PBR will overwrite its files, right?? What about other mods, you indicated that if I want to use Blue Planet mod for ex., I should select Blueplanet mod and add MediaVPs_2014 as a secondary mod, right? just checking if I got it right
Title: Re: [Release] GTM Hippocrates
Post by: Mongoose on September 03, 2017, 08:46:13 pm
That PBR pack has a mod.ini with the 2014 MediaVPs in its secondary list, so if you select 2014 PBR as your active mod, it'll automatically load the MediaVPs as well and take priority over the relevant files.  Now if you want to use the PBR files with some other mod, you'd have to edit that mod's mod.ini file and add in the 2014 PBR folder name BEFORE "MediaVPs_2014."  Theoretically that shouldn't cause any conflicts, but I can't guarantee it.
Title: Re: [Release] GTM Hippocrates
Post by: technopredator on September 04, 2017, 01:03:08 am
That PBR pack has a mod.ini with the 2014 MediaVPs in its secondary list, so if you select 2014 PBR as your active mod, it'll automatically load the MediaVPs as well and take priority over the relevant files.  Now if you want to use the PBR files with some other mod, you'd have to edit that mod's mod.ini file and add in the 2014 PBR folder name BEFORE "MediaVPs_2014."  Theoretically that shouldn't cause any conflicts, but I can't guarantee it.
Got it, but if I were to choose MediaVPs_2014 the PBR 2014 mod would act like a priority mod because they're in the data folder of that mod, at least that's the logic everyone explained about the game, unless that PBR 2014 .ini file interfere with that logic somehow. Also the wxLauncher used to have a -mod command to add mods as a secondary list, if for example I choose Blue Planet then add -mod mediaVPs:2014 so the PBR 2014 would also load and as a priority IIRC
Title: Re: [Release] GTM Hippocrates
Post by: Mongoose on September 04, 2017, 01:24:54 am
Well no, that PBR mod is set up as an entirely-separate mod to the MediaVPs, albeit one that relies on their data.  Selecting the PBR mod only includes the MediaVPs data because the MedaiVPs are in its secondary list.  Selecting just the MediaVPs won't include the PBR data.
Title: Re: [Release] GTM Hippocrates
Post by: technopredator on September 04, 2017, 10:07:53 am
Why? because of the existence of the mod.ini in the PBR? if I move that file somewhere else would the rest of the mod would be taken as \data\ ? as it should, given its location?
If not, then why put it in MediaVPs_2014\data\ ? wouldn't it be more logical to put it at Freespace2\ level? I'd thought by game logic, would take priority and replace MediaVPs_2014 corresponding files, because that's the intention and its location correlates that, not operating this way would make no sense, unless the mod.ini file would affect this behavior necessarily, from my POV, or is there another reason for this?
                 
Title: Re: [Release] GTM Hippocrates
Post by: The E on September 04, 2017, 11:54:36 am
The reason is because that is how the modding system operates. Stuff in FS2/data overrides retail files, stuff in mods overrides stuff in FS2/data and retail files, stuff in mod/data overrides all of the above (ad infinitum for mod dependency chains).
Title: Re: [Release] GTM Hippocrates
Post by: technopredator on September 04, 2017, 04:46:42 pm
That's not what I asked
Title: Re: [Release] GTM Hippocrates
Post by: Mongoose on September 04, 2017, 06:04:20 pm
Why? because of the existence of the mod.ini in the PBR? if I move that file somewhere else would the rest of the mod would be taken as \data\ ? as it should, given its location?
If not, then why put it in MediaVPs_2014\data\ ? wouldn't it be more logical to put it at Freespace2\ level? I'd thought by game logic, would take priority and replace MediaVPs_2014 corresponding files, because that's the intention and its location correlates that, not operating this way would make no sense, unless the mod.ini file would affect this behavior necessarily, from my POV, or is there another reason for this?
                 
Wait, you have the PBR mod located in MediaVPs_2014\data\?  That's not correct: you should move the PBR folder to the root FS2 folder and select it as your active mod, since it has the main MediaVPs in its secondary list anyway.  In general you don't want to add any extra files to the MediaVPs mod folder, or the root FS2 directory's own \data\ folder for that matter.  There's far less of a chance of conflicts if you treat anything you download separately as its own mod.
Title: Re: [Release] GTM Hippocrates
Post by: technopredator on September 04, 2017, 08:50:15 pm
Yeah I do, oh OK, now I got it, thank you for the clarification Mongoose  :yes:
Edit: I did it because Cobra recommended it
Title: Re: [Release] GTM Hippocrates
Post by: AdmiralRalwood on September 05, 2017, 12:48:44 pm
I did it because Cobra recommended it
No he didn't; he told you to put this (the GTM Hippocrates) in your MediaVPs folder, because it's not a separate mod.
Title: Re: [Release] GTM Hippocrates
Post by: technopredator on September 05, 2017, 06:55:48 pm
Put the data folder in your mediavps folder. It's not like the base install doesn't have the same folders or anything...
Yes he did
Title: Re: [Release] GTM Hippocrates
Post by: AdmiralRalwood on September 05, 2017, 07:17:02 pm
Put the data folder in your mediavps folder. It's not like the base install doesn't have the same folders or anything...
Yes he did
No he didn't; he told you to put this (the GTM Hippocrates) in your MediaVPs folder, because it's not a separate mod.

do... do you know what thread you're currently in?
Title: Re: [Release] GTM Hippocrates
Post by: technopredator on September 06, 2017, 02:09:15 pm
Oh wait, oh I see, I mixed with the MediaVPs_2014 one, I'm dyslexic so crossing over info happens to me, I stand corrected
Title: Re: [Release] GTM Hippocrates
Post by: CT27 on September 11, 2017, 05:41:50 pm
The OP said it has a fighterbay.


I tried this (I put the files in the right sections in my Media VPs 2014 folder) in the campaigns Boomerang and Trouble At Home, and it didn't have a fighterbay subsystem listed in either of those when I cycled through subsystems.
Title: Re: [Release] GTM Hippocrates
Post by: Nyctaeus on September 11, 2017, 06:03:06 pm
The OP said it has a fighterbay.


I tried this (I put the files in the right sections in my Media VPs 2014 folder) in the campaigns Boomerang and Trouble At Home, and it didn't have a fighterbay subsystem listed in either of those when I cycled through subsystems.
This is probably caused by "untargettable" flag. This is intentional.
Title: Re: [Release] GTM Hippocrates
Post by: CT27 on September 11, 2017, 06:09:04 pm
What do you mean by that?  It will have a fighterbay in some campaigns and not in some other campaigns?
Title: Re: [Release] GTM Hippocrates
Post by: DefCynodont119 on September 11, 2017, 08:49:42 pm
What do you mean by that?  It will have a fighterbay in some campaigns and not in some other campaigns?

It basically means that the subsystem is stealth, your fighter's targeting system can't see it but the game can.

Fighter Bays don't do anything unless the FREDer programs other ships to enter/exit them, This ship did not have one before, so It's unused in missions that were made before it.

The new fighter bay was made "Untargetable" so that you won't get distracted by it when flicking though the ship's subsystems.  Not that necessary, but an understandable choice nonetheless.   :pimp:


If You want, you can make the fighter bay targetable by changing the ship.tbm