[Pred the Penguin]

If there was only 1 Sath (and its escorts) this is probably how I'd go:

First of all, it'd be a prolonged engagement, a campaign maybe. Hit and run and ambushes to lure out the escorts (possibly fighter/bomber wings, too) and destroy. A Sath with any escorts, even just 1 extra destroyer would lower the success rate significantly.

After that's done, begin hit and run attacks on the Sath itself. When the main assault begins, comm systems should be priority, I'd probably even bring in a jammer. After engines, we don't our target jumping out prematurely. After that's done, main beam cannons so we can bring in heavier firepower (destroyers).


Of course, this tactic would not have worked on the 1st Sath in retail. =/ It probably would've worked fine for the Ravana.

[Killer Whale]

I've thought a few times of a campaign involving just that.

[Enismirdal]

Can we actually jam Shivan comms with a guarantee of success, especially with a warship that large, having (presumably) very powerful communications systems?

[Pred the Penguin]

That's why comm systems are a priority target. In fact all comm systems on all ships should be a priority.

1 Sath is hard enough to kill... Sath calling in reinforcements. *shudders*

[Killer Whale]

= 80+ saths  +

[BengalTiger]

My plan:

It took me some 2 fighter and 4 bomber wings to cripple a Sath, the fighters simply orbited near the hangar bay, and generally shot most of the SF's before they even had a chance to afterburn away and start a big dogfight, while the bombers needed 12-14 minutes IIRC to disable the ship. If the Sath has any escorts, I wouldn't bother to do anything with them, except for maybe disarming a beam or 2 to make the Hat's mission survivable.

If the Hat can stay in the battle area, it can slowly sink the Sath. If not, the SJ is already mission killed and we can move on to the next one.

In the mean time, the already stopped SJ will need to be watched, by stealth fighters, to make sure there are no repair ops going on.

If new tech is allowed, I'd add stealthy combat ships the size of Argo's, one loaded with AAA beams and Flak guns, the second one being a micro-carrier, and the third a stealthy supply unit. I'd also make a Pegasus variant that can load Kaysers and some more missiles, and another one that can carry Cyclopses (2 would be enough) and Maxim guns.

Such units would attack the Shivans behind their lines, hide easily in nebulas, dust clouds, asteroid fields, or even near single big rocks. The stealth strike craft would attack the Shivans where they are weak- cargo ships, transports and gas miners. That would keep the Shivans' repair rate slower than the GTVA could damage their ships, and after a few weeks their would be dozens of SJ's floating around, waiting to be finished off.

All ships would require quick charging subspace drives and massive sensors to keep one step ahead of anything cruiser size or larger (at least until the big ships wake up without beams and engines). They could also be sleepers during combat in their system (floating in some hiding spots), and activate once the main Shivan force moves beyond them, giving a safer environment to work in.

[Pred the Penguin]

Just remembered something else my plan would need.

Frequent recon flights, and very good intel. =/

[Enismirdal]

No kidding.  "Very good intel" seems something the Shivans love to upset every other mission, though.

[Killer Whale]

Would it actually be possible to have kaysers and cyclops on stealth craft? Wouldn't the shivans notice their systems and turrets were going even if they didn't notice the attackers?

[Enismirdal]

I'd certainly think they would...and I don't believe the energy from the shots is invisible.

[Wobble73]

I'd certainly think they would...and I don't believe the energy from the shots is invisible.

IIRC, as soon as you use afterburners or weapons in a stealth fighter, you give your position away. Sometimes not with the afterburners unless you are close to the enemy, but certainly with weapons.

[BengalTiger]

By the time the explosions begin the stealth ships should be running the hell away, and by the time Shivans get backup there should only be smoke and debris left, if the plan gets played out properly.

Also notice that the Ptah flew near a Sath for a pretty long time in that recon mission in FS 2, I think the GTVA is better in hiding than the Shivans are in searching, so the strikers may have time to calmly find nice targets, lock on, and fire at really close ranges.

If the Shivans know what fear is, they'll feel it a lot. If they don't- well... it's never too late to learn. 

Also any massive search operation to find the stealthy spec-ops ships would mean much less escorts near the Saths, allowing more frequent mission killing missions, and more of those missions would end in an epic boom. I don't know if they'd come up with counter-tactics, but if not, they'd be stopped before they'd get the GTVA.

[Charismatic]

Send Alpha 1. He completes every mission.

[General Battuta]

By the time the explosions begin the stealth ships should be running the hell away, and by the time Shivans get backup there should only be smoke and debris left, if the plan gets played out properly.

Also notice that the Ptah flew near a Sath for a pretty long time in that recon mission in FS 2, I think the GTVA is better in hiding than the Shivans are in searching, so the strikers may have time to calmly find nice targets, lock on, and fire at really close ranges.

If the Shivans know what fear is, they'll feel it a lot. If they don't- well... it's never too late to learn. 

Also any massive search operation to find the stealthy spec-ops ships would mean much less escorts near the Saths, allowing more frequent mission killing missions, and more of those missions would end in an epic boom. I don't know if they'd come up with counter-tactics, but if not, they'd be stopped before they'd get the GTVA.

The Sathanas has AWACS, right? Sorry, man, nothing involving stealth is going to work.

'Monster in the Mist' probably involved the Shivans just totally disregarding the Ptah. (EDIT: It appears the Sath is a 'partial' AWACS and can only perceive stealth ships at intervals.)

Send Alpha 1. He completes every mission.

Go play on Insane, Ephili.

[Tantalus53]

Notes: I'm operating under the assumption that TAGged ships can be precision-targeted.  If not, well...that's silly.  Please point out flaws, and I'm also assuming the firepower I suggest would be sufficient.  If not...feel free to up the required ships accordingly.  I totally forget all of the exact values involved.  I'm more discussing a potential strategy rather than precisely how much force would be required to execute it.

I suppose ideally speaking - assuming only one Sath "problem", with no capship escorts - I would use an operation requiring precision timing.
First wave, surprise attack of five wings of bombers with light fighter escort , jump in close and fire off enough warheads to take out the four forward beams and the LRed. 

*snip*

Why not just send in a wave of bombers to attack the fighterbay (and the comm. system so the Sath can't call for help) first? By the time the bombers attacking the BFReds (in your plan) had finished, the Sath would have launched some of its fighters in case other enemies arrived. Attack the beam cannons second.

The armor on the Sathanas is remarkably thick, specificaly around the subsystems. If a few direct hits from a BF green to the engines of a sath (ive never payed any attention to multiple hits on its other subsystems) doesnt knock it out, you'd have to send one heck-of allot of bombers.

Now, in a world of remarkably idiotic shivans, we could get away with a Collie-worth of Ursa bombers jumping in to land enough Helios' on the Comms system, and the fighterbay, in a short enough time for them not to bleed fighters into space, maybe.. But, that many bombers would prompt an immidate response from the shivans, weather or not they stayed to fight or jumped out. A number small enough to wipe out critical subsystems on the Sathanas and evade the whole Sea-of-shivans would probably get wasted by the guarding ships.. At least in my opinion.

In bearbateing on higher dificulties, my bombers and escort were in shambles when trying to engage the escorts along with takeing out just a few turrets

[DarthWang]

I made a mission where there was a Sathy, escorted by a Moloch, Rakshasa, and Lilith, as well as a ton of fighters and bombers.

On the GTVA side there was a Sobek, Orion, and a Hades (modified with beams to have slightly more firepower than the Orion) as well as fighters and bombers.

Based on angles of attack and precise strategies, the GTVA side wins (with one plot device thing to keep the Sathy from warping out)

[Enismirdal]

That'd be very touchy to actually execute, I'm sure, but that'd be rather along the idea of what I'd go for, had I to make the choice.

[General Battuta]

I made a mission where there was a Sathy, escorted by a Moloch, Rakshasa, and Lilith, as well as a ton of fighters and bombers.

On the GTVA side there was a Sobek, Orion, and a Hades (modified with beams to have slightly more firepower than the Orion) as well as fighters and bombers.

Based on angles of attack and precise strategies, the GTVA side wins (with one plot device thing to keep the Sathy from warping out)

Really? How did the destroyers avoid getting vaporized?

The Sath should be able to turn fast enough to take them out. Did you use attack orders, or waypoints?

[Androgeos Exeunt]

I think the best method to kill a Sathanas with as few casualties as possible is to attack from the rear, where the only threat to warships is an LRed. I believe the fighterbay is there as well. Get a few wings of bombers and fighters to jump in with anything of corvette class or larger (including Volition Bravos). The warship should target the LRed and blow it up first while the bombers go after the Fighterbay. Once the LRed is gone, the warship should target and blow up the fighterbay next.

[eliex]

I think the best method to kill a Sathanas with as few casualties as possible is to attack from the rear, where the only threat to warships is an LRed. I believe the fighterbay is there as well. Get a few wings of bombers and fighters to jump in with anything of corvette class or larger (including Volition Bravos). The warship should target the LRed and blow it up first while the bombers go after the Fighterbay. Once the LRed is gone, the warship should target and blow up the fighterbay next.

It's not so hard for the Sathanas to turn around, big enough as it is though unless it involves hit and run attacks.  And as Tantalus53 said, the subsystem plating of a Sathanas is very thick which may prolong the raid.