[NGTM-1R]

NGTM-1R I think you are concentrating too much on the ill-chosen real-life parallel Sarafan mentioned. Because for me it looks like he pretty much meant the same thing you did, that Bosch wasn't controlling every little detail of the NTF military.

Hey, he used Authortarian without understanding what it meant.

[Lucika]

First, allow me to say congrats. I love to see when someone is that much dedicated to his craft.

The Shivans appear to have commited a single failure in this category; the first Sathanas was alone, and they should have reasonably been able to anticipate the GTVA could destroy such a ship if it was alone or lightly supported.

Well, I am asking more experienced people here: if a Sath can take down a destroyer with one shot, how could they destroy it without the Colossus? It would require incredible losses regarding capital ships or such a huge bomber attack that, theoretically, is more than possible (like the Colly cutscene with the insane amount of wings in its hangar considering the numbers we see ingame), but ingame, not so much?

[NGTM-1R]

The GTVA actually did develop a plan to kill a Sathanas with three destroyers (presumably a rear-upper quarter attack with heavy bomber support) and it's mentioned in the briefing for the mission "Speaking In Tongues" that you're trying to lure the Sathanas into posistion for such an assault.

Plus I think it's a safe assumption the GTVA has about twenty destroyers total (or more?) and so they can presumably overwhelm even a ship of the Sathanas' size and fighting qualities...it's just going to hurt a lot doing it.

So in both ingame practice and in theory they probably could have got the job done.

[Dr. Pwnguin]

They could always just knock out the engines, have the destroyers jump in from behind and have them + bombers pummel from behind the ship, preventing the forward beams from being used.

[Timerlane]

The GVCv Maahes was able to do a fair amount of damage to the Sathanas while you were scanning its subsystems. One Vasudan corvette took off at least 10-15% of it's hull integrity, IIRC(not that it carried over to any later missions).

Technically, there is the matter of the "Supercap" flag being needed on any weapon used to actually kill it, so it's impossible for anything except non-'overdriven' Terran beams(BFGreen, LRBGreen) to actually destroy a Sathanas in-game. Not even the MjolnirBeam or even the Sathanas' own BFReds is 'canonically' capable of killing a/nother Sath.

[-Norbert-]

Knocking out a Sathanas' engines? That takes a LOT more firepower than destroying the four beams....

[Droid803]

The Sath has 6 engines, doesn't it? Five at the very least.

[Snail]

6, yeah. 4 on each arm, 2 at the back.

[Dilmah G]

And then you have to take into account its fighter complement, and the fact it may call in more cruisers and corvettes to reinforce it should it come under attack. (Although, we haven't seen this used to excess with the Shivans.)

I think the original plan could've snowballed into a massive Fleet on Fleet engagement, which, I have to admit, would look mighty cool.

Plus I think it's a safe assumption the GTVA has about twenty destroyers total (or more?) and so they can presumably overwhelm even a ship of the Sathanas' size and fighting qualities...it's just going to hurt a lot doing it.

Even though the possibility of GTVA Space ceasing to exist was there, I don't think all twenty destroyers would've been mustered to attack the Sath, unless the Alliance was in some very, very, serious ****. Taking into account that destroyers provide about 7/8 of most of the fighters and bombers in any given system, from what we've seen in-game.

[QuantumDelta]

Yerr, with the exception of the Sath and the Luci, big ships in FS are basically scenery//aircraft carriers.

[Kie99]

6, yeah. 4 on each arm, 2 at the back.

[Droid803]

He means one on each of its four arms.

[TrashMan]

Jump in below the sath (and a little to the back), as close as possible, with 2 Orions and open a barrage on it's lower beam cannon and fighterbays.
Then warp in 2 more destroyers above it and let the beaming commence.

Basicly flank it - top, below, left, right - so it can't turn - and keep moving.

[Dilmah G]

You're forgetting about the other Shivan assets in-system that could respond to a call for help from it. Granted, this QRF may be composed of cruisers mainly, but still.

[Timerlane]

I'd probably try working around jump nodes, specifically.

Broken semi-illogical supercap flag notwithstanding, there are the Mjolnirs. I'm sure that if the Sath had penetrated far enough, they'd have set up a fair amount at a node, King's Gambit style, and it'd probably work once(if not, it would at least force the Sath to wait until any remaining accompanying/screening forces remove the RBCs), with a couple of Orions or Hatshepsut(+ some Aeoli or Deimos/Sobeks for additional firepower and/or anti-fighter cover) jumping alongside to finish what was started.

Another(additional?) thought might be to go the Derelict route and try placing a bunch of Meson bombs at the node. Anything to soften it up significantly beforehand should give the GTVA a good shot at finishing off the Sath in a reasonable amount of time before reinforcements can ruin things. Again, wouldn't work more than once, but the stated goal here was to kill one Sathanas, not the yet-unknown whole fleet.

[TrashMan]

You're forgetting about the other Shivan assets in-system that could respond to a call for help from it. Granted, this QRF may be composed of cruisers mainly, but still.

Isn't that ALLWAYS the case?  There could allways be more shivan assets.


Anyway, any tactic I use can be summed up like this:


Why? Action and reaction. At some point, I'm gonna throw more bullets at you than your defences, however advanced, can handle.

[Snail]

What if I'm a virus or microscopic organism?

[Timerlane]

All we can go from is canon. In canon, the Sath was apparently traveling relatively alone, and appears to have had a lead-in force upon leaving the Nebula of only a few-dozen fighters(A Flaming Sword). Presumably, the Beleth was trailing behind somewhat.

Canon also suggests that there were no reinforcements held in reserve to assist the Sath, to speak of(of course, it might just mean the Shivans had nothing big enough, and/or had only cruisers that they were unwilling to waste throwing up against the Colossus, at the moment).

Arguably, there are a few plot holes here(failing to destroy the Beleth doesn't cause it to reappear in High Noon, and leaving some of the Sath's main beams alive in Bearbaiting allows it to destroy some "line of defense" the Alliance had set up in Capella, which isn't mentioned in briefings when all the cannons are destroyed); the former perhaps suggesting the Shivans really don't care at all about the loss of one Sathanas, which is perhaps relevant.

[NGTM-1R]

Jump in below the sath (and a little to the back), as close as possible, with 2 Orions and open a barrage on it's lower beam cannon and fighterbays.
Then warp in 2 more destroyers above it and let the beaming commence.

Basicly flank it - top, below, left, right - so it can't turn - and keep moving.

Yeah no.

You can shoot beams at specific subsystems all you want in FRED but canonically it's never been that precise. I'l give you the Sathanas' fighterbay could be specifically targeted, it's bigger than most cruisers, but a surgical hit on the LRed? Never happen.

[Lucika]

Jump in below the sath (and a little to the back), as close as possible, with 2 Orions and open a barrage on it's lower beam cannon and fighterbays.
Then warp in 2 more destroyers above it and let the beaming commence.

Basicly flank it - top, below, left, right - so it can't turn - and keep moving.

Yeah no.

You can shoot beams at specific subsystems all you want in FRED but canonically it's never been that precise. I'l give you the Sathanas' fighterbay could be specifically targeted, it's bigger than most cruisers, but a surgical hit on the LRed? Never happen.

Except in the remake of Their Finest Hour .