[el_magnifico]

Does anyone think it's reasonable to say that the GTVA manufactured any Orions during Reconstruction?

Yes, I do. Just because you had to retrofit some design doesn't means you can't order more units to be produced (although, of course, you want those units to be already modified).
I don't think the Hecate was ready for production in time to satisfy the immediate need of destroyers Terrans had after the Great War.
Besides, all those Orions had to come from somewhere.

[Dilmah G]

That's a rather large number. My personalllll estimate would be between 10-25 for each species.

It's a rather large number if you look at it and imagine it all in a single system. Remember they're divided up between each Fleet, and there's no way to have them all in a single system. The nature of the GTVA's position makes it imperative that all fleets are able to sustain a Shivan Assault for enough time for a QRF to intervene, followed by a counter-attack bolstered by vessels from adjacent fleets.

Does anyone think it's reasonable to say that the GTVA manufactured any Orions during Reconstruction?

It's a great way to stimulate the economy.

[MatthTheGeek]

I don't think the Hecate was ready for production in time to satisfy the immediate need of destroyers Terrans had after the Great War.

What "immediate need" ? They have just repelled a Shivan invasion, and we can assume that Operation Templar had followed quickly. The alliance was more concerned with the reconstruction effort during the early years of the post-GW era than rebuilding their fleet.

[Dilmah G]

Well no-one knew if the Shivans would come back. They must have had some kind of contingency plan in the case of their return.

[Lucika]

Well no-one knew if the Shivans would come back. They must have had some kind of contingency plan in the case of their return.

With the ran-down fleet they've had after the Great War and the GTI Rebellion, I'd say that the only contingency plan they've had was about a nice funeral for both species, really.

[MatthTheGeek]

Anyway I think a fleet with a couple of corvettes, attendant cruisers and an installation as a fighter base is pretty plausible in remote, low-populated systems. It's more than enough to repel a Shivan heavy recon unit (think Rakshasa + Maras that destroyed the GTC Vigilant at the Capella-GD node) and hold the fort until reinforcements from other systems arrive. A corvette with enough fighter-bomber support is even enough to take down a Ravana (source retail campaign), so there is no need to have a destroyer per fleet in the less important systems.

Hell, Gamma Draconis was at the doorstep of the heavy-populated and most important Capella system, and they didn't even bothered to set up early warning systems to detect an potential Shivan incursion, so they didn't seem to worry that much about them.

[Gamma_Draconis]

Anyway I think a fleet with a couple of corvettes, attendant cruisers and an installation as a fighter base is pretty plausible in remote, low-populated systems. It's more than enough to repel a Shivan heavy recon unit (think Rakshasa + Maras that destroyed the GTC Vigilant at the Capella-GD node) and hold the fort until reinforcements from other systems arrive. A corvette with enough fighter-bomber support is even enough to take down a Ravana (source retail campaign), so there is no need to have a destroyer per fleet in the less important systems.

Hell, Gamma Draconis was at the doorstep of the heavy-populated and most important Capella system, and they didn't even bothered to set up early warning systems to detect an potential Shivan incursion, so they didn't seem to worry that much about them.

That's because A) no one lives in Gamma Draconis. B) it was a deadend as far as subspace nodes go. There was no strategic reason for the GTVA to have anything there. Until the Knosso portal activated, there was no way out or in except through the Capella node.

[MatthTheGeek]

it was a deadend as far as subspace nodes go. There was no strategic reason for the GTVA to have anything there. Until the Knosso portal activated, there was no way out or in except through the Capella node.

That's what the GTA and the PVN thought about most of the systems in which the Shivans appeared during the GW. We still don't know how the Shivan reached GTA/PVN controlled systems, which proves that we are not able to detect all jump nodes. Like said above, this very aspect of the Shivan threat make necessary the surveillance of all remote systems under GTVA control. The fact there was not even a automated early warning system at the GD side of the GD-Capella jump node to warn the GTC Vigilant shows how little the GTVA cared about that.

[headdie]

it was a deadend as far as subspace nodes go. There was no strategic reason for the GTVA to have anything there. Until the Knosso portal activated, there was no way out or in except through the Capella node.

That's what the GTA and the PVN thought about most of the systems in which the Shivans appeared during the GW. We still don't know how the Shivan reached GTA/PVN controlled systems, which proves that we are not able to detect all jump nodes. Like said above, this very aspect of the Shivan threat make necessary the surveillance of all remote systems under GTVA control. The fact there was not even a automated early warning system at the GD side of the GD-Capella jump node to warn the GTC Vigilant shows how little the GTVA cared about that.

while that is true it is speculated in both games that the shivans were using nodes which we couldn't

[BengalTiger]

Anyway I think a fleet with a couple of corvettes, attendant cruisers and an installation as a fighter base is pretty plausible in remote, low-populated systems.

I wouldn't consider those forces with installation/planetary based fighters GTVA fleets/battlegroups, but rather local system/planet defense forces.

The whole idea behind a propper fleet/b-group is that it could move around, so it needs a mobile base for fighters- ie. a destroyer or carrier type vessel.

[Gamma_Draconis]

Shivan Attack

To the officers and crew of the GTD Aquitaine, this is Admiral Petrarch. At 0115 hours, we received a transmission from 3rd Fleet Headquarters. A Shivan cruiser and three fighter wings ambushed and destroyed the GTC Vigilant as it patrolled the Gamma Draconis jump node in the Capella system.

The GTVA does have patrols in the remote outerlying systems although the NTF Trinity still managed to sneak in. That's why the Shivans never got passed Gamma Draconis in the initital stages of the Shivan Incursion. Plus, I think it'll be fair to say that due to the NTF Campaign, most patrols were probably running off of skeleton crews or were below their normal strength.

[Dr. Pwnguin]

Were the 6000 bakhas made with Vasuda Prime still existed? If so then it would be unrealistic to think the remaining worlds left over after the first war would be able to supply resources, man-power and credits to produce that many ships.

It would also be telling if they made the hulls but never installed computer-systems or drives on them.

[headdie]

Were the 6000 bakhas made with Vasuda Prime still existed? If so then it would be unrealistic to think the remaining worlds left over after the first war would be able to supply resources, man-power and credits to produce that many ships.

It would also be telling if they made the hulls but never installed computer-systems or drives on them.

the bakha is a post great war design so definatly after vasuda got glassed

[Snail]

The Orbital Vasudan Shipyards apparently were still intact, or at least had been rebuilt by 2367.

[Paladin327]

I don't think the Hecate was ready for production in time to satisfy the immediate need of destroyers Terrans had after the Great War.

What "immediate need" ? They have just repelled a Shivan invasion, and we can assume that Operation Templar had followed quickly. The alliance was more concerned with the reconstruction effort during the early years of the post-GW era than rebuilding their fleet.

there was also the threat of pirates raiding shipping as many of the systems of the gtva fractured after the great war. ironically, the single most event that ahould have united everyone, terran and vasudan caused them to fracture

[Snail]

Upon re-reading the intel entries I seem to have reached some very weird realizations about the whole Reconstruction period...

Operation Templar could not have "quickly followed" the Great War. In fact, judging from the FreeSpace 2 intelligence entries, the very earliest it could have taken place is 2358 - More than 23 years after the Great War:

Under BETAC, the Vasudans and the Terrans maintain separate fleets under a single command structure. A warship is designated GT or GV, indicating whether it is Galactic Terran or Galactic Vasudan.

Given how the Vasudan ships in Operation Templar were designated GVD for Galactic Vasudan, it could only have taken place after the signing of BETAC, which occurred in 2358:

In 2358, delegates signed into existence the Beta Aquilae Convention (BETAC), named after the system where the constitution was drafted and ratified.

I can't believe that the HoL would have lasted 23 years in a conventional war, so it was probably something a bit more like a terrorist group with no real military strength.

Furthermore, the GTVA as we know it (ie. the GTVA as an actual government) only existed following 2358, just 9 years prior to the FreeSpace main campaign. While it had existed since 2345, the GTVA existed as nothing more than a treaty organization for trade between the Terran regional blocs and the Vasudan Imperium. During the time between 2335 and 2358, the Terran community existed as several "semi-autonomous" regional blocs. Exactly how autonomous these regional blocs is ambiguous, but personally I don't think they were hostile towards one another, simply isolationist. Whether or not the GTA existed at this point is also unknown.

So from what we can see the Vasudans probably fared better than the Terrans during Reconstruction, aside from the ever-prominent HoL threat.

[headdie]

Upon re-reading the intel entries I seem to have reached some very weird realizations about the whole Reconstruction period...

Operation Templar could not have "quickly followed" the Great War. In fact, judging from the FreeSpace 2 intelligence entries, the very earliest it could have taken place is 2358 - More than 23 years after the Great War:

Under BETAC, the Vasudans and the Terrans maintain separate fleets under a single command structure. A warship is designated GT or GV, indicating whether it is Galactic Terran or Galactic Vasudan.

Given how the Vasudan ships in Operation Templar were designated GVD for Galactic Vasudan, it could only have taken place after the signing of BETAC, which occurred in 2358:

In 2358, delegates signed into existence the Beta Aquilae Convention (BETAC), named after the system where the constitution was drafted and ratified.

I can't believe that the HoL would have lasted 23 years in a conventional war, so it was probably something a bit more like a terrorist group with no real military strength.

Furthermore, the GTVA as we know it (ie. the GTVA as an actual government) only existed following 2358, just 9 years prior to the FreeSpace main campaign. While it had existed since 2345, the GTVA existed as nothing more than a treaty organization for trade between the Terran regional blocs and the Vasudan Imperium. During the time between 2335 and 2358, the Terran community existed as several "semi-autonomous" regional blocs. Exactly how autonomous these regional blocs is ambiguous, but personally I don't think they were hostile towards one another, simply isolationist. Whether or not the GTA existed at this point is also unknown.

So from what we can see the Vasudans probably fared better than the Terrans during Reconstruction, aside from the ever-prominent HoL threat.

nice work there snail, the only angle of criticism I can think of  is with the vasudan ship designations, the entry only states that it is the convention used within the GTVA but doesn't limit the GV designation to the GTVA so it could have been the adoption of a/the designation used in the period between the dissolution of the vasudan parliament by Khonsu II and the formalisation of the GTVA

[Snail]

That's a good point. Between the formation of the GTVA proper and the dissolution of the Parliament in 2339 I was thinking the Vasudan ships could be named VIxx for Vasudan Imperial ship (the name of the government itself would be the Vasudan Imperium or Vasudan Empire) but that doesn't really make much sense.

[SpardaSon21]

How about "IV" for Imperial Vasudan, much like PV stands for "Parliamentary Vasudan"?

[Snail]

How about "IV" for Imperial Vasudan, much like PV stands for "Parliamentary Vasudan"?

Hmm yeah that would work much better.