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Off-Topic Discussion => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: The E on August 24, 2016, 01:45:23 am

Title: Deus Ex Mankind Divided -- Welcome to City 17
Post by: The E on August 24, 2016, 01:45:23 am
(For reference (https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=750518704))

It's out! It's great (based on the 90 minutes I've played it)! More comments to follow.
Title: Re: Deus Ex Mankind Divided -- Welcome to City 17
Post by: 0rph3u5 on August 24, 2016, 07:19:05 am
From what I heard it is quite top-heavy with exposition, can you confirm that?
Title: Re: Deus Ex Mankind Divided -- Welcome to City 17
Post by: StarSlayer on August 24, 2016, 07:34:52 am
(https://pp.vk.me/c306102/v306102740/479f/i6U3umrnOdo.jpg)
I never asked for this
Title: Re: Deus Ex Mankind Divided -- Welcome to City 17
Post by: The E on August 24, 2016, 07:42:45 am
From what I heard it is quite top-heavy with exposition, can you confirm that?

It kinda is, yes. There's some really bad clunkiness in some of the introductions to characters Jensen knows that we do not; this is however not out of the ordinary for videogames (which is no excuse, of course, but I feel like it is at least forgiveable). As I said though, I am just about 90 minutes in, and the plot has just started to get going; I'll have to see how the writing progresses as the game does.
Title: Re: Deus Ex Mankind Divided -- Welcome to City 17
Post by: StarSlayer on August 24, 2016, 08:33:11 am
Does the DE:MD check your Human Revolution game to tailor its story? With the caveat that you probably didn't simply nuke Panchaea at the end.
Title: Re: Deus Ex Mankind Divided -- Welcome to City 17
Post by: The E on August 24, 2016, 08:39:59 am
Nope. There is no savegame importing of any kind.
Title: Re: Deus Ex Mankind Divided -- Welcome to City 17
Post by: StarSlayer on August 24, 2016, 08:51:25 am
 :(

But I spent a lot of effort making sure Malik made it out.
Title: Re: Deus Ex Mankind Divided -- Welcome to City 17
Post by: The E on August 24, 2016, 09:17:40 am
Her absence is a major negative point for DXMD, it has to be said.
Title: Re: Deus Ex Mankind Divided -- Welcome to City 17
Post by: CP5670 on August 24, 2016, 09:22:20 am
This game is definitely on my playlist, but I never buy games on release and wait 3-6 months for all the bugs to be fixed (and a price drop). DX12 support is apparently not in the game until a patch in a few weeks.

Is the gameplay similar to HR? Does it have more interactivity such as picking up objects like the first two games did?
Title: Re: Deus Ex Mankind Divided -- Welcome to City 17
Post by: The E on August 24, 2016, 09:29:41 am
Gameplay is mostly identical to DXHR. There are a few tweaks, of course, due to a couple of new augments Adam never asked for, but as I haven't unlocked them yet, I shall not talk about their efficacy yet.
Title: Re: Deus Ex Mankind Divided -- Welcome to City 17
Post by: Dragon on August 24, 2016, 11:06:41 am
I checked out Steam reviews and one thing's for certain - I'm not paying the full price for this. It seems, for example, that not only do they have a microtransactions store in-game, the DLCs (including exclusive preorder stuff!) are save-locked. I'm not usually the one to base my buying decisions on DLC policy (I simply skip the DLCs if they don't add any real content), but I feel they have gone too far this time. I might get it on a sale someday, or if it ever ends up in a bundle.
Title: Re: Deus Ex Mankind Divided -- Welcome to City 17
Post by: General Battuta on August 24, 2016, 11:21:15 am
How does the energy system work this time around? I was really frustrated with DXHR's "only the last pip recharges" because it felt like I couldn't really have fun with all my augs.
Title: Re: Deus Ex Mankind Divided -- Welcome to City 17
Post by: The E on August 24, 2016, 11:44:36 am
How does the energy system work this time around? I was really frustrated with DXHR's "only the last pip recharges" because it felt like I couldn't really have fun with all my augs.

It's a bit stupid.

You have a permanent energy reserve that will always recharge. There are also consumables, called BioCells, which will grant an extension to your overall energy capacity and will fill the energy meter up to that capacity. During gameplay, your energy will always recharge to the max, but the extra capacity granted by biocells will decay with each activation of an augment.
Title: Re: Deus Ex Mankind Divided -- Welcome to City 17
Post by: Phantom Hoover on August 24, 2016, 12:02:41 pm
That sounds like exactly the old system.
Title: Re: Deus Ex Mankind Divided -- Welcome to City 17
Post by: The E on August 24, 2016, 12:04:16 pm
Not quite. The capacity decay rate is much lower, and your overall capacity seems higher.
Title: Re: Deus Ex Mankind Divided -- Welcome to City 17
Post by: General Battuta on August 24, 2016, 12:48:05 pm
Are nonlethal takedowns still quieter than lethal takedowns (which makes no damn sense)
Title: Re: Deus Ex Mankind Divided -- Welcome to City 17
Post by: CP5670 on August 24, 2016, 01:43:36 pm
I checked out Steam reviews and one thing's for certain - I'm not paying the full price for this. It seems, for example, that not only do they have a microtransactions store in-game, the DLCs (including exclusive preorder stuff!) are save-locked. I'm not usually the one to base my buying decisions on DLC policy (I simply skip the DLCs if they don't add any real content), but I feel they have gone too far this time. I might get it on a sale someday, or if it ever ends up in a bundle.

HR had quite a bit of bull**** with this too, with various preorder-only weapons and one part of the main quest entirely removed and turned into a preorder/day-0 DLC (added back in later on with the Director's Cut release). In most games, the DLC weapons are either useless or break the game balance, as the game was never designed with them in mind.
Title: Re: Deus Ex Mankind Divided -- Welcome to City 17
Post by: MP-Ryan on August 24, 2016, 02:58:24 pm
I'll pick this up in 6-12 months when it goes on sale (massive backlog, yay).  In the meantime, do they still have Pacifist achievements, and are they still as broken as DXHR?  Nothing was as infuriating as the suddenly-dead knockout out dudes in DXHR screwing up Pacifist.

And yeah, amen to Batts' complaint about energy recharge; playing a stealth run, there were only a few very times I got a chance to really take the augs out for a spin and it was severely hampered by my desire to hoard as much energy as possible.
Title: Re: Deus Ex Mankind Divided -- Welcome to City 17
Post by: Phantom Hoover on August 24, 2016, 04:39:46 pm
The ridiculous thing was that you felt compelled not to waste energy by firing augs with more than one charge, but you also had your inventory packed full of enough mars bars to armchisel your way through three levels straight by the end.
Title: Re: Deus Ex Mankind Divided -- Welcome to City 17
Post by: The E on August 29, 2016, 03:14:25 am
Finished the game. It's still good, but there are caveats, which I will hide behind a spoiler tag.

Spoiler:
Whoever at Squenix was responsible for releasing the game as it is deserves to get punched.

No, this isn't a comment on technical quality. It isn't a comment about the writing or gameplay, both of which are at least on par with Human Revolution. It is purely a comment on the ending, which doesn't exist. The game doesn't end so much as it stops; there's no real epilogue or denouement to be had here. Once the final mission is done, all we get is a short dialogue scene, a video of Eliza Cassan spin-doctoring whatever you did. There are indications that what DXMD delivers is merely the first third of the original outline before Squenix ordered Eidos to squeeze more game out of this.

With that out of the way, I should probably also comment on the story. A big deal was made in runup to this release about the augmented as a metaphor for minorities (specifically, black minorities in the US), and that whole thing just. does. not. work.
The idea of a "mechanical apartheid" kinda works. The opening scene in Prague, where you're subject to intense law enforcement scrutiny just because you're an aug, works. The general concept of a massive distrust towards the augmented works too (the incident at the end of DXHR being responsible for a lot of very visible deaths, after all), but I am not sure just how exactly a bunch of scaffolding is supposed to stop a rampaging hanzer in a subway station.

Oh, and about the Microtransactions in singleplayer: There's no reason to ever use them. The game feeds you credits and XP at such a rate that there's really no need to ever buy yourself praxis.
Title: Re: Deus Ex Mankind Divided -- Welcome to City 17
Post by: Dragon on August 29, 2016, 04:18:01 am
I'll pick this up in 6-12 months when it goes on sale (massive backlog, yay).  In the meantime, do they still have Pacifist achievements, and are they still as broken as DXHR?  Nothing was as infuriating as the suddenly-dead knockout out dudes in DXHR screwing up Pacifist.
I read somewhere (possibly on TVTropes) that this was only a display bug, it wouldn't actually screw up your pacifist run. It could certainly make you think that it did, though.
Title: Re: Deus Ex Mankind Divided -- Welcome to City 17
Post by: StarSlayer on August 29, 2016, 07:51:07 am
Finished the game. It's still good, but there are caveats, which I will hide behind a spoiler tag.

Spoiler:
Whoever at Squenix was responsible for releasing the game as it is deserves to get punched.

No, this isn't a comment on technical quality. It isn't a comment about the writing or gameplay, both of which are at least on par with Human Revolution. It is purely a comment on the ending, which doesn't exist. The game doesn't end so much as it stops; there's no real epilogue or denouement to be had here. Once the final mission is done, all we get is a short dialogue scene, a video of Eliza Cassan spin-doctoring whatever you did. There are indications that what DXMD delivers is merely the first third of the original outline before Squenix ordered Eidos to squeeze more game out of this.

With that out of the way, I should probably also comment on the story. A big deal was made in runup to this release about the augmented as a metaphor for minorities (specifically, black minorities in the US), and that whole thing just. does. not. work.
The idea of a "mechanical apartheid" kinda works. The opening scene in Prague, where you're subject to intense law enforcement scrutiny just because you're an aug, works. The general concept of a massive distrust towards the augmented works too (the incident at the end of DXHR being responsible for a lot of very visible deaths, after all), but I am not sure just how exactly a bunch of scaffolding is supposed to stop a rampaging hanzer in a subway station.

Oh, and about the Microtransactions in singleplayer: There's no reason to ever use them. The game feeds you credits and XP at such a rate that there's really no need to ever buy yourself praxis.

Interesting I wonder if we will get another Director's Cut where Eidos gets a chance to fix everything I'm certainly happy to wait for one like I did with HR if it comes done the pipe.
Title: Re: Deus Ex Mankind Divided -- Welcome to City 17
Post by: The E on August 29, 2016, 08:14:45 am
Finished the game. It's still good, but there are caveats, which I will hide behind a spoiler tag.

Spoiler:
Whoever at Squenix was responsible for releasing the game as it is deserves to get punched.

No, this isn't a comment on technical quality. It isn't a comment about the writing or gameplay, both of which are at least on par with Human Revolution. It is purely a comment on the ending, which doesn't exist. The game doesn't end so much as it stops; there's no real epilogue or denouement to be had here. Once the final mission is done, all we get is a short dialogue scene, a video of Eliza Cassan spin-doctoring whatever you did. There are indications that what DXMD delivers is merely the first third of the original outline before Squenix ordered Eidos to squeeze more game out of this.

With that out of the way, I should probably also comment on the story. A big deal was made in runup to this release about the augmented as a metaphor for minorities (specifically, black minorities in the US), and that whole thing just. does. not. work.
The idea of a "mechanical apartheid" kinda works. The opening scene in Prague, where you're subject to intense law enforcement scrutiny just because you're an aug, works. The general concept of a massive distrust towards the augmented works too (the incident at the end of DXHR being responsible for a lot of very visible deaths, after all), but I am not sure just how exactly a bunch of scaffolding is supposed to stop a rampaging hanzer in a subway station.

Oh, and about the Microtransactions in singleplayer: There's no reason to ever use them. The game feeds you credits and XP at such a rate that there's really no need to ever buy yourself praxis.

Man, I totally forgot to write about why things mentioned in the spoiler don't work.

Spoiler:
My main objection to the whole "Augmented as metaphors for victims of racism" thing is that most augmented people chose to be augmented (unless the DXHR universe is a place where industrial accidents are a common occurrence). Yes, there has been a horrific incident which explains the distrust for augs. Yes, it is understandable that the general public and the police treat augs with suspicion. In that vein, it is even understandable that the cops are asking for your papers every chance they get.
What is not understandable is benches in public places labelled "Naturals only!". Or subway stations being (very flimsily) segregated between areas for augs and areas for naturals. Those are things that take this from a decent-ish comment about distrust against people springing up in response to terrorism (like distrust against muslims in today's world) to a comment about segregation between races in 1950s America. It's storytelling with a sledgehammer instead of a scalpel, and DX is the kind of game where we expect scalpels.
Title: Re: Deus Ex Mankind Divided -- Welcome to City 17
Post by: Luis Dias on August 29, 2016, 10:20:28 am
I never expect scalpels from videogames.

Sorry, we're just not there yet.
Title: Re: Deus Ex Mankind Divided -- Welcome to City 17
Post by: 0rph3u5 on September 10, 2016, 07:15:07 pm
Just finished myself... (and it is one more of the "I dosed, tasered and beat people but killed no one"-category - I managed the "Pacifist"-achievement on "Give me Deus Ex"-difficulty)

I can only second what The E has said; Mankind Divided is clearly set-up as a 2nd of 3

Spoiler:
the mid-credits scene basically ellaborates on the "full stop" the game does and sets-up a sequel; basically doing a "Next Time on Deus Ex: Adam Jensen Stories"...



Man, I totally forgot to write about why things mentioned in the spoiler don't work.

Spoiler:
My main objection to the whole "Augmented as metaphors for victims of racism" thing is that most augmented people chose to be augmented (unless the DXHR universe is a place where industrial accidents are a common occurrence). Yes, there has been a horrific incident which explains the distrust for augs

Spoiler:
To be fair, since Human Revolution they have been hammering -metaphorically- the point that people in their world got augmented because of job market pressures and if you go around in the side stories there are a lot of these quietly mixed in the world (remember the side stroy of DX:HR in Hengsha where you had to extort a Social Enhancer for the Tongs? The woman who had it justified getting the aug and loan which got her in with organized crime because she could otherwise not compete in her field as a glorified sales clerk)

... but yeah the leap is too big for the universe they have set-up



On another note, I noticed that I was quietly following the Aug-lines and Aug-train rules about three-four houres in -basically 2nd time you return to the Prague Hub- because I didn't want to get stopped again and again... Anyone else doing that? - Wonder if that just me being efficent in a game (esspecially since said game has severe frame rate drops and loading times on my rather-old hardware) or hinting a deeper weakness of my character...