Hard Light Productions Forums
Hosted Projects - Standalone => Wings of Dawn => WoD Archive => Topic started by: Lorric on August 20, 2013, 09:13:08 am
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Hello.
My fellow players, please can you tell me how you feel about me in this game. Do you approve of what I'm doing? Do you not mind what I'm doing? Or do you dislike what I'm doing? I need to know. If my actions are welcome, or at least not a problem, then I can carry on planning and trying to organise everyone to follow a plan, whether it be mine or someone else's, or if you don't like it, then I'll just shut up and take my turns. Or maybe there are some who like what I'm doing and some who don't, then I can try and help those who do, and not bother those who don't.
I really am trying very hard to help us all you know. And I'll always respect your right to make your own decisions.
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Snufflepharagus. :)
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Definitely Snufflepharagus. This is a Snuffle question if ever I read one.
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Snufflepharagus
This is indifference, yes?
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it's a rejection of the question
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Essentially "I'm not answering that. I'm not getting near that question. I'm not touching that question with a ten-foot-pole."
You should not be asking this question. If there is something you'd like to do, then do it, without waiting for the others' approval. If somebody doesn't like what you're doing, he'll say it, and then you can decide to either stop what you're doing or change what you're doing to suit his needs. If you want to play grand marshal, play grand marshal. If somebody doesn't want your advice, don't offer him any.
I do not know if you expect everybody to go "oh yes, please, Lorric, command us". Do not go fishing for this. It won't happen.
But I'm not hearing that many complaints, either.
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Essentially "I'm not answering that. I'm not getting near that question. I'm not touching that question with a ten-foot-pole."
You should not be asking this question. If there is something you'd like to do, then do it, without waiting for the others' approval. If somebody doesn't like what you're doing, he'll say it, and then you can decide to either stop what you're doing or change what you're doing to suit his needs. If you want to play grand marshal, play grand marshal. If somebody doesn't want your advice, don't offer him any.
I do not know if you expect everybody to go "oh yes, please, Lorric, command us". Do not go fishing for this. It won't happen.
But I'm not hearing that many complaints, either.
I'm truly not fishing for compliments. It is what Spoon said, about "Lorric's single player game" and then later in the thread, and what niffiwan has been saying to me in pms, he's been questioning my motives and making wrong assumptions about me, he's put doubts in my mind. All I need to know is that I'm not stepping on any toes, and then I can go about my business with confidence, as I have been doing, but this has been getting me stressed.
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OK, honest answer then. You have not been stepping on my toes. You have, on occasion, though, stepped close to the line.
You have done an amazing amount of work, by pre-checking the numbers of the fights and coordinating everybody. That is something to be appreciated and I would very much like you to continue doing so.
What can cause some issues, however, is the fact that you tend to present the plan to the rest of us and wait for us to comment on it, instead of letting everybody contribute to the forming of the plan. It's a thin line, and you might not even realize you're crossing it, but it can rub people the wrong way.
To make things easier, you say things like:
LORRIC: "Ok, folks, we need to defeat the Hertak. So, fleet so-and-so should do this, and fleet so-and-so should do that, because [insert math here]".
You are presenting us with a plan, complete with predictions, goals etc. You are telling us what we should do (most of the time, they are legitimately good moves). However, in this example, you're not even taking into account the possibility that other players might not even want to engage the Hertak. We might want to engage their escorts. It might even be a better idea (in this case I don't think so, but you get the idea).
What would be much better and more appreciated by everybody would be something like this:
LORRIC: "Wow, those Hertak look threatening. I think we should dogpile them because [reason]. I could run some numbers on that. Anybody got any better ideas?"
This way you allow the other players to contribute in the setting of our overarching and immediate goals and keep providing the much-appreciated number-crunching, and tactical analysis.
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Good post. A tactical advisor/reckoner without a specific command could be of use. He could provoke discussion/brainstorming on tactics for the next turn and crunch the numbers when prompted. Not everyone is dedicated enough to actually run the results of an order through a calculator, I mostly rely on ballpark estimates and I guess most other commanders do the same. Personally though, I'd prefer Spoon to issue "missing" orders, should somebody miss the deadline. This is bound to happen from time to time, I'm afraid, so Spoon, being the GM here, should decide what happens in such case.
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Y'all are gonna feel silly for letting Lorric coordinate your moves when Spoon gets pissed off and turns your factions against each other :D
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Ah, this is nice. Thank you Enioch, Dragon. Maybe this thread can morph into a kind of suggestions thread or something. And I suppose if anyone does have a problem, this would also be a good place for it instead of cluttering up the rules/discussion thread.
When I present my stuff, I don't want to be seen as coming in as "This is the way forward. Do this, do that." I kind of feel like I just drop in my plan and then I'd like people to look at it and see what they think. I want to inspire discussion, not be some sort of general ordering people around. I can try and follow your suggestions Enioch, Dragon, maybe you can help me get things rolling when I do present my plans, as a pattern seems to have emerged that I present my plan, maybe a couple/handful of people quickly go along with it, and then I spend my days sort of chasing up those who didn't, and I think part of the problem is the plan gets lost in the shuffle.
I'll see if I can try and present next turn's suggestions more as suggestions. They are always suggestions, but I can see where you're coming from.
Really, this is all very new to me, I'm not used to being in a role like this at all, it makes me nervous, so any help would be really appreciated. I'm doing well with the plans, and when things are going well it's great, and it feels really fulfilling when the plans are put into effect and come to fruition, but I'm out of my comfort zone with this.
Y'all are gonna feel silly for letting Lorric coordinate your moves when Spoon gets pissed off and turns your factions against each other :D
Oh no, don't you be giving him any ideas like that! :lol:
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Thanks, Lorric and everyone. Hopefully, if these suggestions work, we'll have overcome a major source of tension, but Lorric can still do some of the strategic work that he does pretty well.
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Y'all are gonna feel silly for letting Lorric coordinate your moves when Spoon gets pissed off and turns your factions against each other :D
Oh no, don't you be giving him any ideas like that! :lol:
I would be surprised if Spoon wasn't already planning to set you against each other in some way after going through all the trouble of setting up the factions (and making it a multiplayer game in the first place). If you step back and look at things objectively, the play becomes a lot more interesting if there is some competitive tension between the players as opposed to just watching you crunch numbers while endless waves of faceless enemies are spawned. Spoon is too clever a game designer to stick with that forever.
It might not be a bad idea for you all to start considering your individual/faction positions if and when the game changes. In fact, you (Admirals) should probably start figuring out ways of forcing other fleets to do the fighting for you whenever possible ASAP. May the best fleet win!
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Oh no you don't...
We have to defeat the heirarchy first anyway. I personally would be very surprised if he did that, since this seemed to be a game to push aside competitive multiplayer.
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In fact, you (Admirals) should probably start figuring out ways of forcing other fleets to do the fighting for you whenever possible ASAP. May the best fleet win!
Absolutely not. Fightin' gives XP (=morale, and next-gen stuff), which will be of great value if we ever fight each other.
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I don't want us to fight each other.
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While a competitive strategy game might be fun, I don't think Spoon would take his game in that direction, and there's no evidence that he's going to do so.
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Competition doesn't necessarily mean actually fighting each other, it just means that there are finite resources (which there already are) and you don't all share the exact same goal (which the GM can change at any time). Spoon has already established that he can surprise you by changing the way things work (like when an enemy fleet moved in a way that your fleets can't), and you are already conveniently divided into factions with varying histories and motivations. Obviously I don't really know the rules of the game (I had no idea about the XP thing), but I think it's rather naive to play under the assumption that the current all-in-it-together fleet grind will be the way things work until the end. Don't say I didn't warn you!
Also you should probably cover Sol. That's where we live.
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I don't think there is an XP system. But you can pump up your morale through victory in battle.
Oh and Sol, that's the loss condition of the game, if the aliens take Sol.
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My concern here is, Lorric, is that you seem rather pushy in my eyes. In your own words you 'chase' the people down that don't hold themselves to the (your) plan.
In this post: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=85046.msg1706272#msg1706272 you are telling everyone action for action what you 'recommend' they should be doing. And you have a tendency to directly question a person doing something that is suboptimal in your eyes. Such as here: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=85046.msg1706340#msg1706340 I understand your motives but its really easy to look at this as if you are trying to put pressure on an other player into doing things your way.
I want every player to have some degree of agency and I want everyone to feel that they are fully in control of their own fleet. And not just copy pasting someone elses plan because they sorta feel pressured into doing so.
As Enioch said, it's a thin line. And I think you'll be on the right side of the line if you take his advice on the way you word/present your plans.
Y'all are gonna feel silly for letting Lorric coordinate your moves when Spoon gets pissed off and turns your factions against each other :D
:drevil:
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My concern here is, Lorric, is that you seem rather pushy in my eyes. In your own words you 'chase' the people down that don't hold themselves to the (your) plan.
In this post: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=85046.msg1706272#msg1706272 you are telling everyone action for action what you 'recommend' they should be doing. And you have a tendency to directly question a person doing something that is suboptimal in your eyes. Such as here: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=85046.msg1706340#msg1706340 I understand your motives but its really easy to look at this as if you are trying to put pressure on an other player into doing things your way.
I want every player to have some degree of agency and I want everyone to feel that they are fully in control of their own fleet. And not just copy pasting someone elses plan because they sorta feel pressured into doing so.
As Enioch said, it's a thin line. And I think you'll be on the right side of the line if you take his advice on the way you word/present your plans.
I feel pressured. The deadlines mean I have to chase. And that was before your latest post.
I'm still not sure how better to do it. I can try and follow the suggestions, but what happens when the clock is ticking down, especially now the heirarchy have decided to get all ruthless, the clock ticks down, and the clock means death if we're not ready...
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If you are feeling pressured then you may be taking this game a bit too seriously.
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If you are feeling pressured then you may be taking this game a bit too seriously.
I know what you're saying, but if I don't do it, the game will end in short order. And I love the game.
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Losing is an important part of all games.
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Good post
QFT - thank you Enioch
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I know what you're saying, but if I don't do it, the game will end in short order.
There's a reason very few people actually field an optimized build when they're just playing at the Friendly Local Game Shop.
They're playing for fun.
Your going all Mathhammer on this, while interesting and somewhat impressive...is not necessarily fun, as you've discovered.
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I haven't play so nothing from me. I just enjoy snarking so I am also having fun.
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It's a bit sad to see tension rise up even though this is supposed to be just a casual little occasion to have fun. I think the best way to handle this situation is transparency and openness, confronting the matter head-on.
I find it extremely unlikely that you, Lorric, are acting out of malice or have any intent to hijack the game. I do think, however, that you're overworking yourself a little. There's really no need to get stressed out. Maybe we beat the Hierarchy, maybe not, maybe something else entirely happens. Just relax a little, and let things play out. On the other hand, no one is going to hate you for making some suggestions for moves. It's a good idea to have a coordinated strategy, and to have someone take the initiative when it comes to working together. Even simple things like agreeing to focus on one enemy can help.
Now, I'm not much of a tabletop player or experienced roleplayer, so I'm not at all reluctant to accept advice when it seems sound. I'd like to hear everyone's opinion on this, however. We're in the same community, and we should act that way.
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It's a bit sad to see tension rise up even though this is supposed to be just a casual little occasion to have fun. I think the best way to handle this situation is transparency and openness, confronting the matter head-on.
I find it extremely unlikely that you, Lorric, are acting out of malice or have any intent to hijack the game. I do think, however, that you're overworking yourself a little. There's really no need to get stressed out. Maybe we beat the Hierarchy, maybe not, maybe something else entirely happens. Just relax a little, and let things play out. On the other hand, no one is going to hate you for making some suggestions for moves. It's a good idea to have a coordinated strategy, and to have someone take the initiative when it comes to working together. Even simple things like agreeing to focus on one enemy can help.
Now, I'm not much of a tabletop player or experienced roleplayer, so I'm not at all reluctant to accept advice when it seems sound. I'd like to hear everyone's opinion on this, however. We're in the same community, and we should act that way.
Thank you Torchwood. I'm still feeling shy about this, but you and the others are washing my paralysing apprehension away. I think I will try something in the thread sometime soon.
Transparency and openness, confronting the matter head-on. That's pretty much my MO on just about everything, so no complaints there! :)
I have been thinking about this too, and I may have some idea about how to help with that, overwork/stress, we'll see. The wheels have been turning in my head on that the last couple days or so.
Thank you for your kind words. I also am inexperienced with tabletop/role playing games. But I do like strategy games.
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Lorric, I feel you are just whoring your post count.
And the only wod relevance I see here is Spoon's occasional opinions.
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Lorric, I feel you are just whoring your post count.
And the only wod relevance I see here is Spoon's occasional opinions.
I don't know what to say to this, other than I reject it 100%.
I don't think you understand what this thread is about.
And you are not in the game either (unless something has changed) so why are you here? This is what makes me think you don't understand.
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You both are about to start a stupid discussion, so stop.
good... now kiss :drevil:
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You both are about to start a stupid discussion, so stop.
good... now kiss :drevil:
I probably wouldn't have even responded to it if it wasn't just so random and out of nowhere with a possibility that he is under a misunderstanding.
You want me to kiss him? Why? :confused: :ick: :lol:
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Just messing around a little.
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Just messing around a little.
Okay. :)