Author Topic: "reliabiltiy" factor, possible?  (Read 5328 times)

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Offline Stryke 9

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"reliabiltiy" factor, possible?
Proper design in space can make it so that you can expel quite a large amount of heat without going boom- basically, just put the hot stuff towards the outside. There's no dissipative medium, so heat doesn't come off quite so easily, but when it does it doesn't stick around.

 

Offline The Claw

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"reliabiltiy" factor, possible?
Actually space is both very hot and very cold IIRC- very hot when you're in the radiation of a star, very cold when you're not.
 In fact I remember reading somewhere about a power plant for satellites that used this theory- part of the plant would be in the sun, and this would use the radiation to boil water and power a turbine. The steam would then pass to behind the satelite where the cold would cool it down again, ready to be passed back to the front. Just like a nuclear reactor, except using a star as the fuel :)
 Anyways this just means that the heat sinks can't be unshielded from the sun, or they'd be about as useful as a condom machine in the vatican, and would in fact, ADD heat to the system.
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Offline Flaser

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"reliabiltiy" factor, possible?
Ever noticed that powerplants hadn't changed a bit since the 19'th century....
You've got the power of a star and you use it....
....to boil water...bah, tell me what's inefficent if that's not?
"I was going to become a speed dealer. If one stupid fairytale turns out to be total nonsense, what does the young man do? If you answered, “Wake up and face reality,” you don’t remember what it was like being a young man. You just go to the next entry in the catalogue of lies you can use to destroy your life." - John Dolan

 

Offline TrashMan

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"reliabiltiy" factor, possible?
Claw, I have no idea where you got that from...

Now, I'm a science freak myself and I don't think your argument stands...
The temperature in space is below zero...
And the vacuum isn't completely without particles.
And people don't tend to fly close to stars ... radiation and stuff..
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Offline karajorma

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"reliabiltiy" factor, possible?
Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan
Claw, I have no idea where you got that from...

Now, I'm a science freak myself and I don't think your argument stands...
The temperature in space is below zero...
And the vacuum isn't completely without particles.
And people don't tend to fly close to stars ... radiation and stuff..


Everytime you comment on science I'm reminded about that saying about a little knowledge being dangerous.  :D

Of course things get hot when directly in the gaze of the sun. What do you think causes a comet to grow a tail when it gets close to the sun? Pressure from the solar wind? :lol:

The temperature on the moon rises and falls depending on if it is in direct sunlight or not. Have a look at this site and this one if you don't believe me.:D
« Last Edit: May 21, 2003, 03:01:54 am by 340 »
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Offline TrashMan

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"reliabiltiy" factor, possible?
I'm merly saying you're exagerating.....
And tht it is very cold in space....

AND thatwe are off topic -> relyability factor, remember?
Let's just leave this discussion for another time? :nod:
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Offline karajorma

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"reliabiltiy" factor, possible?
Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan
I'm merly saying you're exagerating.....
And tht it is very cold in space....

AND thatwe are off topic -> relyability factor, remember?
Let's just leave this discussion for another time? :nod:


Who's exaggerating? Me? This is my first post on the topic and I only posted cause you were completely wrong but rubbishing someone who had posted an idea that I was interested in hearing more about.

Secondly you should either take your lumps and admit that you were wrong or not post anything further about the temperature of space
 Don't reiterate your claim that it's very cold in space even though I've already proved that things depend on the strength of the sunlight at your location and then try to hide behind the whole thing being off topic so that I can't post to tell you that you're wrong again. If it was off-topic you shouldn't have posted about it in your reply.

So as to make it on topic we can use this whole sunlight effect as multiplier set in FRED. That way you could say that in certain missions the reliability of your ship is lower than in others because of the extra effort of trying to get rid of the heat from the sun.
 You could also use it to make the ship less reliable in certain nebula conditions.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2003, 02:09:25 pm by 340 »
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Offline TrashMan

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"reliabiltiy" factor, possible?
Woah....stand down man....
Why so agressive?

1. I stand by my claim, but I have no wish for this disscusion tobe draged on to infinity. I'm to tired to argue anyway...

2. I'm not rubisshing anyone, merly stating my oppinion.

3.People often stray off-topic. Those with some sense in their heads return back to it...

4. Good idea on the sunlight effect.

5. As far as I'm concerned, the space/heat..etc.. topic is over!
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Offline karajorma

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"reliabiltiy" factor, possible?
Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan
Woah....stand down man....
Why so agressive?

1. I stand by my claim, but I have no wish for this disscusion tobe draged on to infinity. I'm to tired to argue anyway...

2. I'm not rubisshing anyone, merly stating my oppinion.

3.People often stray off-topic. Those with some sense in their heads return back to it...

4. Good idea on the sunlight effect.

5. As far as I'm concerned, the space/heat..etc.. topic is over!


Basically if you want to discuss something where you have a different opinion from me I have no problem. I'm quite happy to respect anyones opinions and beliefs.
 However whether space is cold or not isn't an opinion it's a scientific fact.
 If you want to discuss scientific fact you'd better back up your arguement with solid fact if you're going to claim that I've got it wrong. Find me a reputable source that says the moon is cold during daylight and I'll be fine with it but don't simply dismiss my arguement and tell me that I'm wrong without anything to back it up.

Anyway I'll also agree to leave it at this point. Everyone else can make up their own minds on the temperature of space. :)
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Offline Flaser

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"reliabiltiy" factor, possible?
Well, well...

You can drag about it for a while but, let's settle this.
With facts out of a physics lexicon/textbook and whatever I managed to learn during six years.

What's heat?

The definition says that heat is the average kinetic energy the particles have that make up the object. It goes for gases as well.

In space there is virtually nothing!!!

Quote
*actually that's a lie, there are all kind of praticles goin around thanks to the stars, but photons aren't to be treated as acouple of heavy protons, they "weigh" a lot less (please don't get into this I know that you can't really say that a photon has mass).*


So tell me how hot is it in space???...

After all the very question is "dumb" if you think about it.
Space can't have any heat, or temperature, because there's nothing to carry that kinetic energy.
That's why we say that only space is close to absolute zero *minus 273 celsius or 0 kelvin*, becasue if you were to ever measure that temperature everything would be without kinetic energy, ergo there would be no heat.

So in space an object can have its heat of its own, but not the environment.

Radiation - all forms of radiation, such as light , gamma rays, alpha particles *He2+*, neutron stream whatever else - generates heat when it hits an atom. For that instance the atom of a ship's hull or it's radiator.

The ammount depends on the radiation which depends on the distance form the source. So if you're in Earth orbit you're in trouble, 'cause the radiation is enough to keep the planet's ecosphere going even with the atmosphere's dampening.

However each material has its own reflection factor. That's why NASA paints all their equipment white - so they reflect as much radiation as possible.

Moreover objects normally radiate. A black object *physics term an object that only emits radiation but does not reflect any.* radiates on all frequencies, but with a different amplitude. The amplitiude-frequency curve's shape, the amplitudes and position of its maximum depend on the temperature, and the temperature alone.

So hot objects radiate more and on higher freuencies. Every object around you radiates - but not necessarily on visible wavelenghts.

The trick in space is to give off more heat than what you accumulate. So you need big heatsinks in the in the dark side of the ship *the one not facing a star*.
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Offline karajorma

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"reliabiltiy" factor, possible?
Yeah. I was going to get into the whole vaccum has no temperature thing but I decided that it would just make lots of people go "eh? :confused: " unless I gave a long explaination like you did :) (one which I couldn't be bothered to write). An explaination explaining how objects in space could be hot or cold was sufficient for me :)

Plus once you try to explain that you're Heisenberging up the system by trying to measure the temperature of a vacuum (i.e the action of trying to measure the temperature changes the result by a significant amount because the thermometer can't be at absolute zero) you lose the rest of the people who didn't study physics :lol:

If you notice I tried to be careful to never say space was cold or hot cause as you say it's neither. :)

BTW if Heisenberging isn't a word it damn well should be. :lol:
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Offline Flaser

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"reliabiltiy" factor, possible?
At the Budapest University of Technology and Economics (where hopefully I'll end up after my graduation form high school) they start education of quantum physics by writting Heisenberg's formula on the board.
Then the following mantra is proposed:
"You don't understan this.
 Neither do I.
 Nor Heisenberg.
 But you'll get used to it."

:D
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"reliabiltiy" factor, possible?
ok, poeple, how interesting physics may be, i'd like to know wheter or not a reliability factor is posible, i don't really need to know the exact temperature in space.
just another newbie without any modding, FREDding or real programming experience

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Offline TrashMan

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"reliabiltiy" factor, possible?
So we all agree that space is cold, and that the sun heats up objects in the vicinity....
BUT! ... A sun can heat up only objects "close" to it...
The regions in our solar system a bit farther away are f***in cold..
And the next closest star is 20 mil.(or so) light years away...
20 mil. light yers of cold space...

But to get back on  topic (and stay there, I hope), that should be posible...Would require a lot of coding dough....
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Offline Flaser

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"reliabiltiy" factor, possible?
Um Trashman I did mention that radiation is declining by the square of the distance.

As for reliability, it shouldn't be that much coding since there are already things with similar effects, though I not sure, so you can be right.
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Offline karajorma

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"reliabiltiy" factor, possible?
You know. Now that the Random SEXP has been fixed you could achieve a crude version now with a repeating event and the sabotage subsystem SEXP :)

 All you'd need to do to make the proper version work is do the same thing for every ship based on a new table entry. It would be crude but it could work :)

Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan
And the next closest star is 20 mil.(or so) light years away...


:rolleyes: Try 4.2 for Proxima Centuri. 20 million would put it outside of the galaxy (and the nearest few galaxys too for that matter).
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Offline Scuddie

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"reliabiltiy" factor, possible?
Ugh...  Here is a topic on reliability of subsystems, and half the thread is dedicated to debating the dispersion of heat in the vaccuum of space in a frikkin ARCADE SPACE COMBAT SIM??  Jeez!

Anyway, it seems my overloading ideas were thrown by the wayside.  If you ask me, it'd be a GREAT thing to implement, as it would allow things like custom generators, putting out X energy per second, and having X tolerance for overload, not to mention gameplay.

Anyway, when do I get to see GeoMod? :D
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