Community Projects > The FreeSpace Upgrade Project

MediaVPs & Knossos (RE: Some People Don't Like Change; Refuse Future)

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Trivial Psychic:
I know this will invariably result in the why-don't-you-just-use-Knossos reply, but I think you should include a mod ini file and bmp image files to go along with the root VM file.  It gives you a chance to include a new mod image.

Novachen:

--- Quote from: Trivial Psychic on August 14, 2018, 01:42:27 pm ---I know this will invariably result in the why-don't-you-just-use-Knossos reply, but I think you should include a mod ini file and bmp image files to go along with the root VM file.  It gives you a chance to include a new mod image.

--- End quote ---

I am actually for that, too, because i do not stick totally to Knossos and see it problematic if the whole community would do.
I would prefer an official foldername on this way, too, because that make it easier for manual installations, because you have an official folder name you can use in the mod.ini like in every other version.

Currently you would have to say "yes, actually you have to edit the mod.ini for that"... or "MediaVPs 3.8.1 have to be in a folder called MVP381" or something like that.

mjn.mixael:
HLP is moving to Knossos.

My current opinion on the matter is that it you're advanced enough to be dealing with manual installs, you're advanced enough to make your own mod.ini.

I'm also willing to have my mind changed by a strong enough argument.

hirmuolio:
Considering that the Knossos gives critical error to many who try to update their MediaVP I would say the manual install should be made easy within reason.

Once the Knossos is out of beta you can start ignoring manual installers.

mjn.mixael:
Now that I'm awake let me add the following before I respond to hirmulolio...

There is still no mod that I've seen updated to use MediaVPs 3.8. Any mod release before yesterday should be using 2014 and there's already a standardized folder for that. I will say again that users should not be arbitrarily forcing mods to use the new MediaVPs version. (PIe and I have been updating popular older mods and putting them on Knossos and will update them to use 3.8 in the coming weeks. If there's a mod not on Knossos and you aren't sure how to do it, let us know.)

Any mod updated to use 3.8 should probably be released on Knossos anyway. Manual installs and the older (in most cases no longer developed) launchers are archaic compared to the ease of Knossos. We're already directing new players to Knossos. Additionally, I've been using Knossos as part of my development (with SVN attached) of both BtA and MediaVPs. It has a few extra steps.. I wouldn't say it's easier, but it is better by forcing me to think about packages, mod details/metadata, dependencies by version instead of by title... at the tradeoff of a very, very convenient distribution platform (for free!).

Here's one other reason that I've thought through. With Knossos making distribution very simple, I intend for the MediaVPs to get more regular updates (quarterly?) in addition to off-the-cuff patching for minor issues. It will be minor revisions (3.8.x) for bugfixes, mid revisions for new features (3.x.x), major revisions that have serious backwards compatibility considerations (x.x.x). New ship models could easily go in a 3.9 for example. With this in mind, how long would I have to keep making mod.inis for mods that still refuse to take advantage of Knossos? (This is as good a place as any to note that the number of new mod releases is very low these days.)

Lastly, you may call it anti-trust if you want (since I helped develop Knossos) but if MediaVPs 3.8 being a Knossos exclusive forces more of the community to get on board, then I consider that a strong partnership.  :p

EDIT: Oh, and I can't just "include a mod.ini and standard install folder" with the individual files because I let Knossos handle creating those when I released the mod. It would require a separate download here just for all that. Which creates a lot of work and potentially all kinds of different checksums reported by FSO making debuging difficult.

OK, hirmuolio... I still disagree. The bug is unfortunate, but it is the first time that has happened since we started getting mods up on Knossos. I'm not going to completely change the way I want to release mods because of a single bug. That bug, also has a very easy work around. Instead of clicking Update on the Home tab of Knossos, go to Explore and click Install for the MediaVPs. Ngld will have a proper fix out soon, Knossos will self update, and we can go on our merry way.

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