Author Topic: FS1 Destroyers bugged?  (Read 255 times)

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Offline Tiranja

  • 23
FS1 Destroyers bugged?
Hey there,

I just wanted to test out a bit of mission making for FS1. But it seems that Destroyers are bugged?

2 examples:

I put 1 Typhoon and an Orion next to each other to battle it out. The Typhoon survived with around 95 % HP. It looked like the Orion could not hit it, even though the Orian did fire and hit visual.

I put an Orion and a Demon next to each other. Both started shooting at each other. After several minutes they were still very high in Health both. Like I was watching them shooting at each other but almost no impact on both sides.

Is there any way to get things right for them?

 

Offline 0rph3u5

  • 211
  • This place is empty promises all the way down..
Re: FS1 Destroyers bugged?
The FS1 destroyers are not designed to fight each other in their vanilla state ... they are more big pieces of scenery with just enough guns attached to make them a bit threating for the fighter flying around them. As is fitting to the FS1 design that keeps the action focussed on the fighters.

There are few ways to make them "better" for combat against each other - the most common is to introduce a new weapons that don't have the issues of the vanilla turret lasers, e.g. SerRes Railgun/Neutron/Plasma pimaries, or BtA's torpedoes.
(IMO Missiles have a distinct advantage as using them creates a layer of general player interactivity if they are interceptable)

But if you don't want to introduce and balance new weapons, some tuning to the vanilla ones will do - just raising their tabled $Velocity and $Lifetime stats will increase their range and give their turrets much better coverage. E.g.

Code: [Select]
$Name: Terran Huge Turret
+nocreate
$Velocity: 225.0
$Lifetime: 14.0

(Still that doesn't mean those laser will do a lot ... unless you give them a lot of time. Their damage stats are designed so it is safe to tank their shots with bombers after all.)


Additionally, adding disabling the ability for turrets to target subsystems on an enemy ship will stop ships in a "laser turret duel" from selectively disarming each other prematurely. This requires only a small addition to the ship table data. E.g. (needs to be repeated for each turret)

Code: [Select]
$Name: GTD Orion
+nocreate
$Subsystem: turret01a, 1.875, 3.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Huge Turret" )
$Flags: ( "no subsystem targeting" "reset when idle" )


Another thing is to understand their designs and how to best utilize them using waypoints instead of basic "Attack ship"-command:

- Terran capital ships generally are made for broadsides,
- Vasudan capitals generella are made to fly over or under their targets,
- and the Shivan ships are made for frontal assaults.

Remembering these rules of thump gets the ships into positions where the most of their active turrets can actually target an enemy ship at the same time.

The Demon is the big exception to the rule about the Shivan ships however. Unless you really want to get elbow deep into a changes to how the ship functions, it is not a very effective combatant except at extreme close range - the ship is too large and its turrets spread out too far.
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

==================

"I am Curiosity, and I've always wondered what would become of you, here at the end of the world." - The Guide/The Curious Other, Othercide

"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nyrissa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."

 

Offline Tiranja

  • 23
Re: FS1 Destroyers bugged?
Wow thanks a lot man.

So how could I introdoce other weapons? Just in case I would like to try that? Are they already in the Fred? Can I just swap them? If so what would be good ones so Destroyers are the real deal but not over the top overpowered?

The other tips (increasing and disabling subs) sound good. what me really bothers is like the Orion vs Typhoon thing. The where side to side to each other (so broadside for the Orion), yet the Orion got destroyed with only making 5 % damage on the Typhoon at all this time.

It looks like the Typhoon has made things done correctly. I made it fight 4 Leviathans. of course those 4 won, but they all got a decent pounding and lost a good amount of their own health.

I hope to get some more advice from you :)

  

Offline 0rph3u5

  • 211
  • This place is empty promises all the way down..
Re: FS1 Destroyers bugged?
I am not here often but I will give you what advice I can.

So how could I introdoce other weapons? Just in case I would like to try that?

To add new weapons or to modify existing ones is rather easy on a modern FSO build - as you can use modular tables (wiki) to overwrite the data in the existing tables.
More on Tables in the Wiki

To introduce new weapons or modify existing ones, refer to the weapons.tbl page in the wiki:
https://wiki.hard-light.net/index.php/Weapons.tbl

To alter most properties of a ship, refer to the ship.tbl page in the wiki:
https://wiki.hard-light.net/index.php/Ships.tbl
(Note: that not all properties of a ship, e.g. the number of turrets, can be alted via the tables; these need to correspond to data in the .pof file for the ship, aka its model)


Before you make alterations to existing ships however, it is recommended that you create your own mod (rather easy with Knossos) so the changes don't "spill over" into unrelated content.
I am sorry but I don't have the time to walk you step by step through the process of doing that. But you should be able to find the information in FS Tools board or just ask.

Quote
Are they already in the Fred? Can I just swap them? If so what would be good ones so Destroyers are the real deal but not over the top overpowered?

Unfortunately, there are no unused weapons in FRED you can easily swap to for that. At least not with the FS1 weapons set.

But you can load FRED with a mod and use what they have no offer though. It should be easy enough with Knossos (literally two clicks).

Once you added your own to weapons.tbl via modular tables, they should appear in FRED for you to swap in - or you can override the weapon defaults of the ships.tbl with the respective modular table as well.

Side note - Speaking of FRED, it does have a few additional screws you can try when you want your capital to capital engagements go just right - e.g. buffing turret fire rates, swapping out weapons on the fly etc.

Quote
what me really bothers is like the Orion vs Typhoon thing. The where side to side to each other (so broadside for the Orion), yet the Orion got destroyed with only making 5 % damage on the Typhoon at all this time.

The Orion's broadside capabilites are better when it can use some the multibarreled turrets (turret01a-05a) - but these cannot angle the barrels below a certain angle. So often it will just use the three point defense turrets on the side facing a target in a broadside position (maybe one of those on the top or bottom of the ship).

If I am allowed to be shamelessly self referential - there is a video of an older build of the fourth Mission of Hellgate: Ikeya which features an Orion going up against a Demon:
https://youtu.be/TrM7SmHoMF4?t=528

It featues slightly adjusted weapons for the Orion (added range to all turrets, added burst fire to the heavy guns) and an advanced rework of the Demon to turn into into a missile destroyer.

But more relevant, if you look from 8:48 onwards you can see that I angled the Galatea to use its upper turrets rather than a broadside against the Orcus, so the ship visually brings more fire power to fight. It is just a little rotation but gets the Orion into a much more effective position.



Speaking of being referrential, do check out Between the Ashes and Series Resurrecta for referrence on using the FS1 era destroyers in battles. (Full disclosure: I am part of the SerRes-team)
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

==================

"I am Curiosity, and I've always wondered what would become of you, here at the end of the world." - The Guide/The Curious Other, Othercide

"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nyrissa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."