[Light]

Now I believe that there used to be a 100 object limit in FRED that I think the Sourse Code project removed but what I am looking for is how many ships can be handled by a modern computer in a mission area?

The reason I am asking is I have been thinking about a couple of mission designs that would have a lot of ships in them. One is a convoy defense mission involving 16-24 transports, escorted by 2 Caernaven-class frigates, 4  Venture-class corvettes, and 12 fighters defending against 8 Kamrani-class corvettes and their fighter screen of at least 16 fighters. The other idea, less well formed in my mind, involves an Alpha Strike against a Kilrathi carrier group supported by BVR CapShip Missile fire. All told maybe as many as 60 Confed fighters and +/-30 Anti-ship missiles against a similar number of Kilrathi fighters and 8 starships.

I might post another thread to go over the mission ideas in more detail later. I will of course have to wait for the full version of Saga to come out to try anything but do you think such mission will be possible?        

[Vidmaster]

WCS makes good use of shadders.
I can state this:

I've worked on missions with over 300 objects  

[General Battuta]

They'll be possible but probably kind of nightmarish.

[Dragon]

It depends on quality of ship models and textures.
If the ships are lo-poly fighters with just one ,retail-like texture ,you can have even 300 or more of them on good computer at one time.
On the other end ,if you have HTL capship model ,with modelled ,high-detailed fighterbay and a lot of different ,hi-res textures ,each one with -shine and -normal maps ,most of them with -glow (Solaris from Blue Planet: War in Heaven is an example of such ship), you may experience an FPS drop with even one on screen.

[Tolwyn]

You have to take different factors into account:

First of all, by the time Saga is released, all of our models have been either heavily optimized or rebuilt entirely from scratch. Most of them do not use more than 3 textures, which limits the number of required render passes.

Secondly, yuo have to consider the big picture: I might have built a few missions with over 300 objects (100 ship limit was removed by our request), you will never see more than, let's say 75 objects on a screen. The key word here is instancing: each nav point is an encapsulated entity - ships are spawned only when you reach said navpoint and usually over a period of time. I think we made quite a good job with the mission design - beta test, which will take place later this year, will give us more feedback.

[Angelus]

You have to take different factors into account:

First of all, by the time Saga is released, all of our models have been either heavily optimized or rebuilt entirely from scratch. Most of them do not use more than 3 textures, which limits the number of required render passes.

Secondly, yuo have to consider the big picture: I might have built a few missions with over 300 objects (100 ship limit was removed by our request), you will never see more than, let's say 75 objects on a screen. The key word here is instancing: each nav point is an encapsulated entity - ships are spawned only when you reach said navpoint and usually over a period of time. I think we made quite a good job with the mission design - beta test, which will take place later this year, will give us more feedback.

I assume it's a closed beta? 

[Tolwyn]

I assume it's a closed beta? 

Yeah.

I'll post an application form during the second part of the year...

[General Battuta]

Wow. I'm really impressed, Tolwyn.

WCS really is doing some good work.

[Light]

Thank for the replies, I almost forgot I posted this question as it has been a busy week for me. It sounds like the convoy defense mission might actually be practical. The Alpha Strike mission seems like it will need a good mission design process. It sounds like timing the arrival and departure of ships form the nav points would probably be the key to the mission. Beyond that you have gotten me even more excited about this project. It looks like we are finally going to get to see the true scale of the Terran/Kilrathi War.

[dragonsniper]

I've worked on missions with over 300 objects 

Wow. I thought it was limited to the 200's...

[Dragon]

I think it was raised to 400 in 3.6.10 and newer builds. (correct me if I'm mistaken)

[dragonsniper]

Wide eyes once again... Who would need 400+ ships in a mission?

[CaptJosh]

Someone trying to duplicate the Battle of Endor?

[Tolwyn]

Or you just failed to take the way WC missions are built into account.

Remember: you travel to more than one waypoint, which means, that you need more enemies to deal with (compared to FS2).

[dragonsniper]

Remember: you travel to more than one waypoint, which means, that you need more enemies to deal with (compared to FS2).

Right. I guess you would need more then.

[Vidmaster]

  but there are still huge fleet battles 

[Tolwyn]

but there are still huge fleet battles 

What amazes me most though is that these actually work...

[dragonsniper]

but there are still huge fleet battles 

What amazes me most though is that these actually work...

When they do, and they're done properly, most of them can be a lot of fun. I'm still amazed at how many ships the SCP team can jam into FRED...

[Mancubus]

The reason I am asking is I have been thinking about a couple of mission designs that would have a lot of ships in them. One is a convoy defense mission involving 16-24 transports, escorted by 2 Caernaven-class frigates, 4  Venture-class corvettes, and 12 fighters defending against 8 Kamrani-class corvettes and their fighter screen of at least 16 fighters. The other idea, less well formed in my mind, involves an Alpha Strike against a Kilrathi carrier group supported by BVR CapShip Missile fire. All told maybe as many as 60 Confed fighters and +/-30 Anti-ship missiles against a similar number of Kilrathi fighters and 8 starships.

        

No offence, but if you are not a VERY expirienced fredder don't do this. It is certain that your missions will ultimatly fall victim to the battle of endor syndrome. start with something smaller and then go bigger when you mastered balncing things

Or you just failed to take the way WC missions are built into account.

Remember: you travel to more than one waypoint, which means, that you need more enemies to deal with (compared to FS2).

I thought WC missions tended to have fewer but brighter and more challenging enemies

[Tolwyn]

It depends:

1. FS2 AI can't be compared to the one seen in WC games. It's plainly not as good.
2. Excalibur's autotargeting combined with its superior weaponry means for us, as mission designers, necessity to add more fighters to equal out the equations