Author Topic: No Man's Sky  (Read 14830 times)

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Offline Mongoose

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I think there is some nostalgia, or at least personal preference, going on there, but I think this thread was already derailed enough as-is, so we should probably drop the topic.

 

Offline Luis Dias

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As far as No Man's Sky itself goes, today's Diecast has a segment on it (at 48 minutes in). I can't listen to it right now but Shamus Young is the official internet procedural generation guy so I'm sure he'll have something worthwhile to say about it (the errant signal guy is also there if you like him).

Wouldn't find this any other way, thanks I'll curiously listen to this.


/Done. Bah, irrelevant ignorant discussion about... ahhh... podcast shenanigans? k.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2013, 06:12:40 am by Luis Dias »

 

Offline FlamingCobra

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-snip-
So, wait.  It's not a multiplayer game.  But if someone depletes a planet of a valuable resource, the same planet in my single-player game will also lose that resource?

 :wtf:

Can I opt out of that ****?
What if you disconnected your computer from the internet after downloading, or modified your HOSTS file?

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Being the first virtual lego blocks on the block was the only real reason Minecraft survived
"First virtual lego blocks on the block" would most certainly not be Minecraft (and that wasn't even the first, either).
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 

Offline An4ximandros

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Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuc k :(

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/130830-No-Mans-Sky-and-Joe-Danger-Developer-Hello-Games-Suffers-Flood

Goddamn, loosing all your work on Christmas' eve has to be the ****tiest way to loose all of your work.

 

Offline Luis Dias

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They didn't lose their work, they lost their hardware.

 

Offline Sarkoth

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According to GameStar, a German gaming print magazine, they did lose some crucial harddrives along with their backups when their hardware got flooded. The only thing unclear remains how big of a setback it was and if we are talking just a few days or quite a bit of weeks of progress.
Only the one passed trough darkness obtains the right to ask for light

 

Offline TrashMan

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Being the first virtual lego blocks on the block was the only real reason Minecraft survived
"First virtual lego blocks on the block" would most certainly not be Minecraft (and that wasn't even the first, either).

wow... that looks..more impressive than Minecraft.
but it seems it has no other gameplay elements other than building
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

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Offline Luis Dias

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Josh Parnell, developer of Limit Theory:

Quote
I have watched it many times now, and after this many watches, there's one thing of which I'm sure: it's going to be a fun game. For some reason, every time I watch the video, I just think, "these devs really have a good handle on fun." Everything just looks fun. Hard to explain, but it feels as though every detail of the game is centered around giving the user a fun experience, from the beautiful planet surfaces to, for example, the short amount of time that it takes to get back into space, to having ships gratuitously flying through the atmosphere, to blasting holes in things, to the obviously-Frank-Hebert-inspired sand worms :D

I go out on a limb and declare these games (Terraria, Limit Theory, No Man's Sky, heck even Minecraft, etc.) as the frontrunners of a new paradigm in games onwards, ones that react and go to the opposite direction of the most common Stanley Parable types of games, where every single narrative, twist and interaction with the game has been thoroughfully pre-written on a railtrack.

I am probably hyping this too much and am absolutely sure the skeptics will burn me by saying this. I am also pretty aware of the huge heterogeneity in games right now. However, I've been burying my thoughts into a "lets see" for too long and I have to put into words what is in my heart.

When I saw Limit Theory for the first time, I began to wonder whether if there's a good alternative to the usual multimillion process of creating gaming titles that will always take the safe route, but when I saw that NMS trailer, it hit me right in the gut. This is the exact same feeling I had when I first saw Doom on a computer. Regardless of any gameplay shenanigans that could have occurred in that game, I was instantly mesmerized with the possibilities that the engine was providing us with.

This new generation of games, that I will still take as intermediate towards a paradise of my own imagination, has turned possible due to several recent tools, like the great processing power available to us now or the existence of Kickstarter and other kinds of venues for indie projects.

In my imagination I foresee a new level of gaming, one where gaming design is more of a design of rules of the game as well as the rules of how the world is built, including rules on how characters should act and speak. And then the computer does the rest. Imagine NPCs actually reacting without script to whatever it is you are doing and saying, and behaving on their own with their own attitudes and agendas. Throw out thrilled railtracks and bring back exploration, discovery, actual surprise.



 

Offline General Battuta

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I don't think you're wrong at all. I think the curated game narrative will probably still have a place, but personally I suspect that the real strides in game storytelling and design will come from exactly the angle you're highlighting - games that provide rule sets to generate a system.

 

Offline BloodEagle

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I think you completely missed the point of The Stanley Parable.

 

Offline General Battuta

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No, I think he got the point of The Stanley Parable.

 
this is not even close to a 'new paradigm', simcity came out in the eighties for ****'s sake
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 

Offline Luis Dias

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There are many game genres, and although I can see your point regarding simcity and both its "procedural generating" stuff and the simulation part, I don't think simcity fits here. We are talking about a first person non railroad track exploration experience, not an "I'm god now" (or manager) stuff.

I was quite enamored with simcity spinoffs back in the early 90s. SimFarm, Sim Earth, Pizza Tycoon, Railroad Tycoon and of course Transport Tycoon (my favorite)... I still remember rollercoaster tycoon and some similar games like that. I'm not talking about those things.

 

Offline FlamingCobra

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-snip-

In my imagination I foresee a new level of gaming, one where gaming design is more of a design of rules of the game as well as the rules of how the world is built, including rules on how characters should act and speak. And then the computer does the rest. Imagine NPCs actually reacting without script to whatever it is you are doing and saying, and behaving on their own with their own attitudes and agendas. Throw out thrilled railtracks and bring back exploration, discovery, actual surprise.
I immediately thought of S.T.A.L.K.E.R. when I read this.

 

Offline Flipside

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Well, the whole thing that crossed my mind is probably not a view that it's healthy discussing in here, but here we go...

Basically, this sort of thing seems to me to be very similar what Derek Smart had in mind when he was developing BC3000 etc, an open world where the player could define their own experience within it, you could even throw that kind of mentality back to Elite, though there was far more roaming and far less interaction involved in that case, and rumours of non-existent ships also kept people searching the game. The problem the BC series faced was that the hardware simply wasn't up to the envisioned job, so what came out was a compromise between the desire of the creator and the ability of the system.

What I think we've seen in the last few years of the evolution of possibility with regards to this sort of game. It's still finding its feet, but the increase in speed and flexibility means that systems are far more capable of realizing the procedural sandbox dream. I don't think it's quite settled down yet, right now, the ability to generate several billion slightly similar worlds seems more important than being able to generate a few thousand unique ones, but without actually playing this game, I cannot say whether this really addresses that as it claims or not.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2014, 06:09:36 pm by Flipside »

 
There are many game genres, and although I can see your point regarding simcity and both its "procedural generating" stuff and the simulation part, I don't think simcity fits here. We are talking about a first person non railroad track exploration experience, not an "I'm god now" (or manager) stuff.

Oh, OK, I see what you mean now. I wouldn't classify those games as having a procedural 'narrative', though: they don't really have any narrative or storytelling aspect at all, just a personal record of exploration.
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 

Offline Luis Dias

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No they don't, at least yet. That's one of my pipe dreams waiting to be accomplished. Perhaps. Some day. And I think it all starts with this mode of thinking and departing the whole Stanley Parable game design book.

 

Offline Mongoose

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See, the thing for me personally is, while I can certainly appreciate the advances in procedural design that have been made, and I've put who knows how many hours' worth of fun innto Minecraft over the years, I still much prefer a tightly-scripted linear gaming experience (like FS2, for instance) over a "get dropped in a sandbox and do whatever the hell you want" affair.  I take more value out of seeing some specific design realized than in having to make my own fun, but again, that's just my personal tastes.  I do think we still have a long way to go overall, including some absolutely massive advances in game AI, before a procedural game could produce anywhere near the amount of immersion that a completely-scripted one would.

 

Offline Flipside

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Well, the closest I've seen to procedural 'storytelling' as such is what appears to be emerging with Dwarf Fortress, where full histories are developed for characters in pre-game generation. I suppose, in a way, the problem with storytelling is that our AI technology needs to advance about as far as our parallel processing has, in other words a story is as much about the NPC reactions to a situation as the situation itself. At some point it always has to fall back to some kind of scripted behavior, and the lower level in the AI that script occupies, the more predictable the overall pattern becomes (as an example, think Mass Effect 2 vs Skyrim).