[666maslo666]

You'll note that the word "cured" did not appear in my post; the choice of the term "treated" was deliberate.  Pedophilia can be treated, to varying degrees of success.  The degree of success and the extremity of the treatment depends on other psychological attributes; in the case of the most severe offenders, chemical castration is periodically required.  That said, experimental programs such as the Phoenix program, based here in my own province, have had some remarkable successes treating repeat pedophiles and other sex offenders, even violent ones: http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1300/J076v23n01_09  The program is highly sought-after, has a waiting list, and is by referral only.

I dont dispute that recidivism can be reduced with treatment, what I dispute is this idea that the underlying attraction can be effectively reduced, and also that there is any real difference between pedophilia, paraphilias and "sexual orientations" in this.

To paraphrase you, pedophilia is an actual part of ones identity and more or less static once formed, and sexual orientations are psychologically treatable with varying results, too. We just dont treat them because there is no ethical reason to. If we had such fancy program for homosexuals or adulterers, and backed by the force of law and societal pressure, the results would be similar.

[MP-Ryan]

As the origins of paraphilias (including pedophilia) is fundamentally different than the origin of sexual orientation, and one is learned while the other appears to be biologically-derived, there is a much higher possibility that a paraphilia can be fundamentally treated (combinations of drugs and CBT are used to varying degrees of success) to manage the attraction, whereas the same is generally not true, nor desirable, for non-heterosexual orientations.  Chemical castration is a matter of last resort for those who refuse are unable to manage their sexual impulse control; it's no coincidence that practicing pedophiles that come to the attention of the criminal justice system have mental disorder comorbidities, such as ASPD and ICD.

I'm not arguing that paraphilias can be eliminated by treatment; I'm arguing that they are fundamentally different from sexual orientation because they occur for different, learned reasons, and it is therefore desirable to treat the harmful forms, such as pedophilia, and it cannot be ethically/morally compared to the notion of treating sexual orientation, which is a fundamental matter of biological identity.  Comparing non-criminally-active pedophiles to homosexuals, bisexuals, asexuals, transgendered, etc is a false equivalency for many reasons.

[Bobboau]

you have asserted that, yes. if you have posted some corroborating evidence forgive me, it's a 7 page topic at this point and I'm only half paying attention to it. but could you show some supporting evidence fort he learned aspect? Not that it can be learned, but that it is uniformly learned. that being learned is a diagnostic feature of pedophilia (etc).

[MP-Ryan]

you have asserted that, yes. if you have posted some corroborating evidence forgive me, it's a 7 page topic at this point and I'm only half paying attention to it. but could you show some supporting evidence fort he learned aspect? Not that it can be learned, but that it is uniformly learned. that being learned is a diagnostic feature of pedophilia (etc).

Diagnostic features of any psychological condition aren't based on origin, so what you're asking for does not exist.  Moreover, like most psychological matters, definite cause-effect has not been (and likely will never be) ascertained.

That said, the evidence that pedophilia is learned, rather than an ingrained trait, is reasonable.  It has a high correlation with childhood sexual abuse, it does not have discrete genetic markers (though it has weak genetic correlation as there is a higher incidence in MZ vs DZ twins, although non-shared environmental factors are also present), and most pedophiles report environmental factors (stress) as triggers.  You'll have to forgive me for not citing specific links, as I'm summarizing a dozen plus journal article and three courses on abnormal psychology.  If you want details, PubMed is your friend.  If you're satisfied with a generic overview that covers at least some of what I've said, here's a good place to start reading (long): http://focus.psychiatryonline.org/article.aspx?articleid=53036  It's citation list links to a bunch of peer-reviewed work that covers the things I've touched on here.

[Aardwolf]

I would actually be surprised if such a complex psychological condition could be anything but a learned condition. Sexual orientation, too. If it's as predetermined as some people have tried to convince me, then what is the determining factor?

[zookeeper]

I would actually be surprised if such a complex psychological condition could be anything but a learned condition. Sexual orientation, too. If it's as predetermined as some people have tried to convince me, then what is the determining factor?

Prenatal hormonal stuff affecting brain development would be one, I suppose. That's something I recall reading about as a determining factor, although I can't say I know/remember any of it.

[Flipside]

I think sexual orientation is kind of like left-handedness and things like that, there's not really a marked reason for the body to choose to do everything with a different hand to the standard and it's possible, with practice, to become almost as dextrous with the right hand as the left, this went on in much of Europe until surprisingly recently, there's a reason left-handed is referred to as 'Sinister'.

I think sexual preference has a far more embedded cause in many cases, maybe a seed that is encouraged to grow, so you don't choose which gender you prefer to have sex with, but your life does have a say in what manner that sexual attraction plays itself out.

[Lorric]

Oh man, the left handedness thing...

I've never heard of it being referred to as "sinister" but how far we've come. We've gone in about three generations from beating left-handedness out of children to being tolerant of all sexual orientations. And people say there's no hope for the human race and such...

[MP-Ryan]

Oh man, the left handedness thing...

I've never heard of it being referred to as "sinister"

'Sinister' is the Latin word for 'left.'  It came to its English meaning later.  It's still used in chemistry; the R/S system for explaining chirality refers to rectus (straight) and sinister (left).

[Lorric]

Interesting. Thank you, MP-Ryan.

[Aardwolf]

Really, rectus, not dexter? Then what's dexter?

[Scotty]

Right.

[Aardwolf]

Which?

Who's on first?