Hard Light Productions Forums
Hosted Projects - Standalone => Fate of the Galaxy => Topic started by: newman on June 16, 2010, 06:23:34 pm
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..or TRN, for veteran X-Wing and Tie Fighter gamers. Here's what it looked like back then:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Delta-class_DX-9_stormtrooper_transport
(yea that was quite good in those days)
Some time ago, quite by accident, I ran into this: http://www.starwarsmodels.com/troop.html
I simply loved the re-imagined transport, and immediately thought of fotg. A few emails/IRC chats later, I confirmed that if I made it, fotg would use it, and Mark Kozik, the author of the redesign, gave his blessing as well (thanks Mark!). This was almost a year ago.. what can I say. Been busy with real life and Diaspora, building this on the rare occasion I could spare a moment or two. And, here are the results:
(http://i48.tinypic.com/2qjdhn6.jpg)
(http://i45.tinypic.com/faodqg.jpg)
(http://i50.tinypic.com/2zrpdec.jpg)
Note that the stormtrooper in the image isn't mine, I yanked it off here (http://www.3d02.com/Stormtrooper_3M00487.aspx). Just here for scale reference. Anyway, apart from a few tweaks it's mostly done. Those rebel scum won't be able to hide for much longer..
Also, here's the original author's page featuring the transport model kit:
http://www.angelfire.com/art/zarkus/Transport.html
http://www.angelfire.com/art/zarkus/Transport2.html
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That looks really nice.
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This is a great day for the Empire.
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AT-AT, space version. :D
(seriously, they're the same size, check that wiki)
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Yep. Remove engines, add legs, it's an AT-AT. Well, almost. Which is partly why i love the design :)
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I hope it gets painted? I mean, I love Imperial Gray as much as the next Sith, but surely SOME color wouldn't be amiss.
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I hope it gets painted? I mean, I love Imperial Gray as much as the next Sith, but surely SOME color wouldn't be amiss.
Maybe a variant with all the colors of the rainbow, with the title "Stormtrooper pride" on the nose? :D
Seriously tho this is just your basic imp version. Certain color schemes, even a rebel captured version, are a possibility. If you check it out in Tie Fighter they got color schemes that almost look like ww2 battleship camo. Maybe something along those lines.
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I'm a big fan of keeping Imperial ships their standard imperial grey colours. Rebel and pirate versions of course might have colour added.
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Geez, it doesn't have to get a full paint job. I just meant adding some little touches, like warning stripes around the missile ports or serial numbers stenciled on the side.
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Frankly I always thought the warning stripes looked way out of place
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And Brandified!
(http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/2558/transportfinal.jpg)
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YESSSS!!!
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Hey, thanks for that render brand, I like the look of that :)
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Thanks, I made a couple small adjustments. I lightened up the grey a little, and added the paint scratches along the corners into the normal map, as well as tweaking the normal map a little, making the panel lines a little more subtle
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Best. Transport. Ever.
(The others are nice too, but...)
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Woo! Is this converted and ready to go?
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Woo! Is this converted and ready to go?
Being worked on by zookeeper now, afaik.
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yet another commercial grade piece of work there brand :yes2: :yes: keep it up
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It would be, except brand didn't make it :p Unless you were referring to the render of course, which is indeed beautiful.
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Man! you guys make some pretty good looking models.
How do you acomplish that high quality felling from the textures? ... I sure could use some pointers on how to texture properly myself.
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I think that the texture could use some markings outlining the hatches, cockpit, intakes and weapons.
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I think that the texture could use some markings outlining the hatches, cockpit, intakes and weapons.
I agree. This is what I was talking about...
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The reason they're not there is because I can't think of a single imperial ship, or even land unit, that has such markings. Seems like an imp thing to me. Since it has the at-at in space looks, I also wanted it to look in line with that - basically an armored hunk of metal in space. Making it all happy colors would, imo, detract from that.
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We can do reskins later if they're needed.
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We can do reskins later if they're needed.
Can't say when but those are planned. This one is *just* your run-of-the-mill basic imp version.
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Looks like the ship set is approaching numbers that would let us be able to make a clone of X-Wing...
;7
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Which we are definitely not doing.
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I get where some people are coming from with markings, but perhaps it's better to explain why they think there should be. The feeling I think comes from that right now, it almost feels as if the ship is not an actual ship, but something carved out of a block of granite (very nicely carved of course). It just feels lifeless compared to some of the other Imperial models like the older ISD Brand had made. Maybe it's just things like the exhausts and turret tips, or something else, I don't know but I think that's why everyone feels like it needs a little something to really come alive.
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It does feel a bit lifeless, but I agree that painted markings would be out of character for the Empire. I think it'll come alive much more once it has a few glowpoints, glowing engines, and maybe a baked-in spotlight or two. And much as it can get old seeing the same obvious mark on every ship of a class, a good scar would really add some character.
Also, one thing you do see in both the star destroyers and the walkers are areas that aren't flat slabs of armor. It makes sense to minimize this even more than normally in a stormtrooper transport, but some kind of greebly area would break things up nicely.
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would black/dark grey serial numbers be too out of character so they are there but not attention grabbing
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What about an Imperial Emblem?
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I hate to repeat myself, but the basic imperial version is going to have the simple imperial gray theme. However, do keep in mind that what you see here are renders. Depending on the lighting, some of the weathering and color can look a bit "bleached out", even if it brings out other detail. In the game, one has the option to actually bring out the color of the weathering, since the final look is accomplished by a blend of diffuse, specular, glow and normal maps. So, I wish this wouldn't degrade into a "add your pattern" brainstorming session. Once the final game maps are done it'll look good in-game. And again, there will be other variants.
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dont really like it, its far too big, the ship is supposed to be only 20m long. the shape is cack, looks more like that godawful dropship from force commander. maybe spend a bit more time doing something more interesting with the feet (always thought of them as clamps, theres a door at the bottom). Make a nice new class of ship, maybe a dropship or something but bit too far removed from the original trn for my liking
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Wow. At least you made it clear in the first sentence you don't know what you're talking about so I could take everything else you said with a grain of salt. It is 20m long (not 20ft, not 20 yards, 20m). It was scaled so that a ~2m stormtrooper could barely make it into the hatch on the side, which was on one of the original 'TRN' models you talk about, and still have to duck. 20m is a little less than 2 X-wings long, and that's about what I figured it should be. As far as its resemblance to the original TRN, do you even know what one looks like? This is one of the most faithful reproductions of a TG model we've done.
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bit too far removed from the original trn for my liking
(http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20051006021222/starwars/images/7/75/XWA-DX9-3d-new.jpg)
(http://i45.tinypic.com/faodqg.jpg)
ok yes there is additional levels of detail, the triangular protrusions from the missile rack and different pain scheme there isnt a huge difference between the two and are quite clearly the same class
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eh? i said 20m, what are you talking about? i know its badly scaled, most tg ships are, take that stormtrooper as 2m tall though and its a pretty big ship. shapewise its the same but the overall look differs greatly. the textures on tg's model differ wildly from the look of the new one. personally i'd have gone with their look as they were the ones to invent it if you like. my remarks are meant as constructive btw, sorry if theyre badly worded
btw keep it civil, theres no need for comments like i dont know what im talking about, i used to be a team member on here back when karma was running the show and made one of these for homeworld, here and xwa upgrade. not as good a model as this but i do have some modding experience.
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Seems that even putting a stormtrooper next to it to show off scale isn't enough for some people.. The model is 20m long. The hatch on the side of the head is just enough for a regular stormtrooper in armor to get through. Though that hatch is meant for the flight crew. The top and bottom docking collars and the aft hatch are quite enough for several stormtroopers to use at once (aft hatch two at once, the docking collar actually uses an elevator system that should support 4 at a time).
As for the "lifelessness", well, there may be some merit to that but do remember that this texture isn't final and I will be putting in some more detail and fixing up weathering where appropriate. Lastly, anyone who still doesn't like it, tough, my heart bleeds for you. As far as I'm concerned, go play the original X-Wing and enjoy that version better, for all I care, because the good folks at FotG seemed happy to accept this version (again, not final yet). Never was a big fan of whining..
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Newman's version gives a more Imperial and Star Warsy impression to me.
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:wtf:
Pearls before swine. Its a wonder they still show any progress shots the amount of stubborn second guessing and whining that occurs on this board. Seriously there's supposed to be an inverse relationship between quality product and the amount of *****ing. Yet despite FotG consistently attaining a level of quality thats damn near the best on HLP, its always met with its to long/wide/short/tall/not colorful enough.
I'd challenge you people to find one movie canon piece of Imperial hardware thats covered with labels before you continue this whining campaign.
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I can't see a whining campaign here.
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Indeed. While there are always critics (some more vocal than others), the overall feedback seems to be 90% positive.
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"Hey, cool redesign on this model kit. Wonder if FotG would use it if I built one" -> get permission to use -> build -> texture -> show wip -> brink of flame war.
For the life of me I can't get how do we get to that last step. Let's just not go all the way, shall we? In the mean time, I'll call the 90% positive feedback E mentioned a win and be happy with that as I upgrade the textures a bit :)
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That's the mentality you need. You can't impress everyone.
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im not whining im just giving my opinion, i dont like it, as chief himself pointed out its like a block of granite. i dont even understand what your saying about scale, it is 20m and the stormtroopers not to scale? i dont really want to get into an argument about it, up to you what you make and up to the guys if they want to put it in, if you just want to hear people slaping you on the back fair enough good luck to you. no need to get all defensive and overreact
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Who's overreacting?
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not sure, talk of flame wars but bit confused as to why too. thats what i meant by overreact
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Now I don't get what you mean about scale. You said it was too big, did you not? You also said that it's supposed to be 20m long, correct? That implies you think this one is actually longer? If I misunderstood, I apologize. To be clear:
- the model on the renders is 20m long. Max doesn't lie and is a hell of a lot better at judging scale then the human eye.
- the stormtrooper in the pic is to scale, I made it 1.9m high. Maybe should have gone for 2.0 but that doesn't change the fact that the transport itself is still 20m long.
As for not liking the design itself, it's your prerogative. Even if I wanted to I can't get insulted over that since I haven't designed it. I personally love this design which is why I built one for FotG.
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Please keep the habit of building SW designs you love. :)
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i know its not your design, thats why i had no probs critising it :)
The scalings not really important, maybe the perspective is throwing me off, maybe i'm just wrong :) As long as its good in game doesnt matter
if you are open to critism though i think the head at least could do with reshaping, the shapes just a bit too basic. The lasers for example look like theyre just a pair of barrels with no firing mechanism behind them. if you'e going for an an imperial look the textures could be lightened a bit as well. like i said though up to you what you make and the guys what they put in. It just looks off as is.
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Like I said, textures aren't final and will be brightened up a bit. Mesh wise, I like the design as is. Check the links in the first post to see what it's based on. I like that and intend to keep it that way.
Scale wise, could be that perspective threw you off. That happens a lot and is even mentioned in the FotG FAQ :)
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Those barrels will be barely visible ingame, and they're perfectly high poly enough. Top work Newman, this will be great for mission design purposes, and it's a super high quality model to boot. :yes:
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Yay, 91% :D
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i wasnt refering to the amount of polys but the basic shape, they just look like pipes, most of the detailing on the model will be barely visible in game but they add to they overall look. anyways..
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If they're barely visible in-game, then what's the point in adding them? That's something I can't apprehend. Maybe I should be a modeler to understand.
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comprehend, and small details like that make the model look more realistic overall. barely visible is enough to add to the overall picture. except here they look off. i looked at the pics of the zarkus model before (before saw this 3d version) think its the interior there thats throwing me off on the scale now that i look at them again.
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Hey, I just wanted to pop in and commend newman on his exceptional model and texture job. If I were to critique the model, and I'm really splitting hairs here, I would say that the complexity of the texture make the ship look bigger than two x-wings end to end. I hardly think this will matter because I don't believe the detailing will translate to the game engine. All in all another great addition to the FoTG mod.
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Newman, for the record, I love your model and cannot complain.
Given that this iteration of the ship doesn't really conflict with any listed material (there's never been enough detail/work done to the DX-9 prior to make a truly definative claim of what it looks like, apart from the general configuration), I don't see why there would be such contension. And, as the only SW sim I've ever played was X-Wing, I really like the grey as well. :)
Lastly, Gank - work on your constructive criticism skills. If something looks too small/big, ask how large it is first or ask for a comparison. DO NOT go out and blatently attack someone's work or give the appearance that you're attacking their work. On a second note, you might actually have some margin of valid opinion here - did you work on the DX-9 for the X-Wing Alliance Upgrade Project?
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I think we've probably responded to Gank's original comments enough. I myself didn't quite mean to come off like I did, but we do have a bizarre level of poor criticism delivered to many of our renders.
As for difference from the original TRN, the main diffs seem to be the paintings. There always _could_ be a version with different texturing, but there's no reason there couldn't be a cleaner version of it too, and this is a great starting point for that.
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Amen, Chief. Now we can let the healing begin. *ahem*
Oh TRN, how do I love thee? Let me count the ways:
I love that you are good EU and not Kevin J Anderson
I love how you shake those missile pods when I give you a gander...son
I love the way your firepower is directed, all frontally
I love the rear as well--you've got some cans, to put it bluntally
I love your FRED utility (you "capture" my heart also)
I love that you are full of Stormies (don't stun me, bro!)
I love your wrong proportions--too long, no, wait, too short
I love you with a highly symbolic torpedo up the exhaust port
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Bravo sir.
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A very well done model. I can't wait to blow it the everloving **** out of space.
so call that 96% positive, or so?
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Myself and my 6000 friends who are currently in my dining room all like it. Swings it up to 102% positive
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Given that this iteration of the ship doesn't really conflict with any listed material (there's never been enough detail/work done to the DX-9 prior to make a truly definative claim of what it looks like, apart from the general configuration), I don't see why there would be such contension.
Lastly, Gank - work on your constructive criticism skills. If something looks too small/big, ask how large it is first or ask for a comparison. DO NOT go out and blatently attack someone's work or give the appearance that you're attacking their work. On a second note, you might actually have some margin of valid opinion here - did you work on the DX-9 for the X-Wing Alliance Upgrade Project?
Firstly the first and to my knowledge only place this ship appears is the xwing series of games. its gotten progressively more detaied in these and this model takes it in a completely different direction. Saying theres no definitive version is a load of bollocks, it first appeared in xwing, the creators of the xwing series (totally games) invented the ship therefore their version is definitive. Doesnt stop you from redesigning it but I prefer the look of the original.
I didnt blatently attack his work as he's clearly stated throughout the thread its not his design, i was commenting on the assumption that everyone knew that. Its a very accurate reproduction of the model he used for reference and for that he should be commended. I dont like the model he based it off its poorly designed in my opinion. I havent criticised his work, I've offered my advice on areas where in my opinion it could be improved and tried to mae it clear im trying to be constructive rather than agressively attacking people for no reason.
As for the large/small there was already a stormtrooper in there for comparison. And yes, as i have already said mentioned before i did make that model, it was originally made for homeworld 1 not xwau. I also was responisible fr the assault frigate on there you pointed people towards in the thread on that here, again for hw originally. If that makes me more quaified to comment what may i ask are your credentials?
As for difference from the original TRN, the main diffs seem to be the paintings. There always _could_ be a version with different texturing, but there's no reason there couldn't be a cleaner version of it too, and this is a great starting point for that.
The main difference isnt the paintings, theres been some fundamental changes to the ship, eg the docking ports been moved to the top. the heads a bit different as well, its shape is simpler than the originals and in my opinion the design suffers for that. Some things on there too like the aforementioned gun barrels, the docking port being on top (easier to board down into a ship than up dont ya think, too far forward for those doors), the huge door/ramp on the back just give an overall impression that it was designed to look good rather than what would function best.
Anyway you have responded to my original comments, you've said its scaled correctly i'll take yur word for it, I've said i dont like it, youve said you do and wont change it, discussion over. If i dont like it make my own.
Seems to be you fellows need to get a bit more thick skinned, I haved notice any bizzare level of criticism leveled towards you, if your going to be changing ships from how people are used to seeing them you have to accept that people will not like some of your changes and deal with it. I was very impressed with some of the work thats being done on here but i think you need to learn to respond to negative comments a bit better.
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You don't like the design. Seriously, we-get-it. Also, tl;dr
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Sounds fun.
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That post was waaaay out of line, Archaic.
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Yeah seriously man. Chill. He just had some opinions, let's not castrate someone for it.
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Archaic, you need to tone it down a bit.
And Gank, the key point in constructive criticism is that it is meant to be constructive. You've given your opinion, and newman has responded to it, stating that he does not intend to make the changes you've suggested. At this point, to harp on it further is no longer constructive because we've established that your criticism will not affect the work.
In other words, it's time to let it go.
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Taking the abuse to Gank can only serve to lengthen the discussion at this point, something I'm sure nobody here really wants. There's no need for him to kill himself for not liking the design :) He said his piece, I said mine, others said theirs. Time to give it a rest for all parties concerned.
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Sounds fun.
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i apologize, but all the naysayers are REALLY starting to get on my nerves
i will try to restrain myself next time
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seriously i apoligised for the tone of my original post 30 minutes after it was posted, 20 min after chief jumped down my throat. i tried to be constructive and say where i thought the model could be improved but its been sidetracked by people jumping on the bandwagon to bash the naysayer and whiner. Its not even your design ffs yet your all acting like i questioned your parentage.
You guys need to get a grip. this board is even worse than the xwau was and the attitudes on there scared away more than a few good modellers. I was coming back here because i was impressed with the work and was working on something to contribute (no not a trn) but frankly the attitudes are too offputting. C ya.
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I love you, the whole model kit & kaboodle
I love you, as sure as the prequels were brutal
I love you without any ifs, ands, or buts
I love you far more than the camera loves hutts
I love you with feelings deep down (in my drawers)
I love you like GL loves ruining Star Wars
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Archaic has a better reason to apologize once more.
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back to topic
its nice to see one of my favorite craft in HD!
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Don't leave Gank!
There aren't many people on this project who are making stuff, and your skills would be appreciated. Including your critiquing skills. You are absolutely right about the need for discussion and critiques. Many of the ships in this mod are re imagined, which means we can, and need to, think critically about them. The only way to make the greatest ships ever for this mod is to consider formal issues such as colour and shape.
Sometimes people get too zealous when it comes to canon. Don't let their fanatical devotion to the colour gray get to you.
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While the nose may look visually more interesting the way the XWAUP made it, it would be more efficient to make it straight (with 90° angles on the front) like in this model.
In space aerodynamics don't matter, so the slight arrow shape of the XWAUP model won't help manouverbility, but it does make the front hatch/ramp smaller, meaning instead of three, only two stormtroopers can walk/run out side by side (or however many....), leaving them at a disadvantage when it comes to deploying fast.
And deploying fast and overpowering the enemy with numbers seems to the the standard Imperial combat doctrine for infantry combat.
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Bumpsy.
I'm pleased to announce that Brand's improved diffuse texture has been committed. :rolleyes: No joke.
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What do you mean? He just uploaded them? Or have we been sitting on them?
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Or have we been sitting on them?
Yes. :ick:
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Hey, but brand has been on HLP recently ( read: last month)! Glad he's still with us in spirit.