Author Topic: *SPOILER THREAD* Star Wars: The Last Jedi  (Read 103407 times)

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Offline Bobboau

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Re: *SPOILER THREAD* Star Wars: The Last Jedi
So the numbers are not looking good

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robcain/2017/12/25/the-last-jedis-gargantuan-151m-2nd-weekend-plunge-is-an-epic-and-hollywood-choke/amp/

This maps with the ratings we have been seeing.
I don't get it.
I mean it's not the greatest movie ever made but it was certainly better than TFA.
Don't get it at all :wtf:
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Offline Scotty

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Re: *SPOILER THREAD* Star Wars: The Last Jedi
Percent drop off is the kind of number that people roll out when the normal numbers for "International Gross" and "Opening Weekend Gross" don't tell the story they want to tell.

International Gross: almost $750 million
Opening Weekend Gross: over $200 million

The movie is doing just fine.

 

Offline Cyborg17

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Re: *SPOILER THREAD* Star Wars: The Last Jedi
Just watched it today, and everyone I went with said it was awesome, and I enjoyed it, especially the lightspeed ram scene ... but ... the movie was two movies, or more accurately a movie and a half. 

But I understand why a lot of it wasn't cut out.  I am actually fine with what they were *trying* to do with the casino scene, and I really like the codebreaker character and his double cross, but there wasn't time to fully explore the casino to make it feel like a really scummy grimy den of disgusting war profiteers, which is what makes it meh and pointless for a lot of people. Some of the world-building moments during that portion I really appreciated, too, because that is one of my favorite things in stories.  And if they are going to do other things off of it in the third movie, then it should definitely be in.

The one thing that really cut have been cut is the portion where Rey goes into the darkness.  That was so pointless.  It just confuses the audience and doesn't actually set up the next scene with Ren well at all.  That scene with Ray and Ren feels very off balance until they touch, and it would have been nice to see what she sees when that happens -- you can add it without adding run time.  They should have re-written the scene and reshot it as soon as they got a good sense of how it was coming out.

So besides that, superwoman Leia and grav artillery are the two main things that bother me.  (The bombers were still relatively close to the planet, which makes what happened possible, but only having bombers that work like that is not wise.)

Also, I love Porgs.  For the porg-haters, this is why:  https://screenrant.com/star-wars-last-jedi-porg-design-puffin/  In other words, a protected species was given CGI costumes because they literally could not disturb them during filming so they instead found a way to add them.  That is simply great, no matter what you think of their actual presence in the film.

Oh wow! Did not know that! Slightly less annoyed at them now!
« Last Edit: December 25, 2017, 10:45:16 pm by Cyborg17 »

 

Offline Luis Dias

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Re: *SPOILER THREAD* Star Wars: The Last Jedi
750 million isn't that great, considering TFA got 2 billion, entering the top ten list of all time. It may not even reach one billion, time will tell.

 

Offline Luis Dias

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Re: *SPOILER THREAD* Star Wars: The Last Jedi
That Forbes article is way over the top, but it may well have a sad point: the stupid masses may not like it, which can have a dire effect on the whole thing.

 

Offline Scotty

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Re: *SPOILER THREAD* Star Wars: The Last Jedi
750 million isn't that great, considering TFA got 2 billion, entering the top ten list of all time. It may not even reach one billion, time will tell.

The Force Awakens was in theaters for almost six months, and was pulling in millions every weekend clear into March.  The Last Jedi has been out for 11 days.  Even if it experiences a similar drop off for the next half dozen weeks it'll still clear a billion, fairly easily.

Apparently estimates from this weekend are (significantly) higher than the Forbes article indicates, anyway.  To the tune of $30 million, which seems like a good amount.

 

Offline coffeesoft

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Re: *SPOILER THREAD* Star Wars: The Last Jedi
Ok, yesterday I was watching the movie.

In my opinion is a total disaster, it's boring and absurd.

The feeling that these important characters look like grandparents without energy and illusion.

Sorry that I can not express myself well because of the language, but I have no words to describe how bad I felt watching this movie.


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Offline MP-Ryan

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Re: *SPOILER THREAD* Star Wars: The Last Jedi
That Forbes article is way over the top, but it may well have a sad point: the stupid masses may not like it, which can have a dire effect on the whole thing.

Which is really unfortunate.

Thinking back more, there are some definite points in the film that I'd characterize charitably as a hot mess.  The entire Finn/Rose subplot should have been re-written, and was entirely set up for the "fighting to save those we love" line... which was a good line, and precisely what Star Wars is about, but how they got there was a bit of a disaster.  However, that subplot doesn't make or break the film.

I think what the naysayers are missing comes from two issues:
1.  A marriage to canon established more in the official books than the films, and
2.  An understanding of the Force that relies on a black and white dichotomy [literally], when the whole film [quite convincingly] establishes why that dichotomy is wrong.

Yeah, TLJ did attack the simplicities of the way the Light/Dark sides of the Force operate, but that's been set up even in the OT to some extent, and its a welcome tear-down of the oversimplification of good and evil.  I understand that many fans want clear good vs evil in Star Wars, but I'd argue the ST universe has never been about that - hell, Obi Wan told us that in A New Hope.
"In the beginning, the Universe was created.  This made a lot of people very angry and has widely been regarded as a bad move."  [Douglas Adams]

 

Offline Mongoose

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Re: *SPOILER THREAD* Star Wars: The Last Jedi
Just got back from the theater, and that was an absolute blast.  I'm really having a crazy hard time imagining how someone could sit through it and say it was bad.  (Hell, my own brother did, and I told him to his face he's full of ****.)  Minor quibbles?  Parts that felt rushed and/or shoehorned in?  Of course.  It wasn't a perfect film, if such a thing exists.  The bit with the casino in particular felt like it needed some significant editing.  But there were so many fantastic moments, big and small, and a huge amount of both homages to and unexpected subversions of the original trilogy.  Random things I really enjoyed, in no particular order:

-Yeah, the massive gravity-creating bombers were kind of silly, but that opening fight had me pumped otherwise.  Poe remains a massively likeable character and I want a real BB-8.

-It was so bittersweet seeing Carrie Fisher one last time, but she nailed every scene she was in.  Was her floating her way out of vacuum silly?  Most likely, but I couldn't help but cheer anyway.  It was nice to have a reminder that she was almost as strong in the Force as her brother, despite never putting it to use.  I loved her interactions with Poe; it's so clear that she sees a lot of Han in him.  I'll just forever regret that we'll never get to see what she would have done in the last film.  I'm expecting they'll wind up having her die offscreen before then.

-With all apologies to Mark Hamill, I thought Luke's character arc was handled just fine.  As previously mentioned, we saw clear glimpses of how easily Luke could be tempted by the Dark Side in the original trilogy, and given what he experienced with his own father, is it too much to imagine him having a single moment of doubt, and then being devastated when it went horribly wrong?  I loved R2 "playing dirty" to remind him of what it was he'd fought for in the first place.  He had a great rapport with Rey, and I think someone was cutting onions during that last scene with Leia.  And the shoulder-brush?  Max swag points.  :cool: I genuinely thought for a moment that they were going to pull another Han, or at the very least Obi-Wan, but it was a brilliant subversion.  I can't even say I felt sad about his fate, since he clearly chose to pass into the Force of his own free will.  Plus his last act on this plane of existence was ****ing with Kylo in every conceivable way possible. :D

(But oh God, that milking scene...  :ick:)

-Rey was a bit of a tabula rasa in TFA, but I think she finally came into her own here.  She had some legitimate agency throughout the movie, and while she wound up facing the same conflicts Luke did during the original trilogy, she came to different conclusions than he did.  I legitimately love the (apparent) fact that she wound up not being a Skywalker or Solo or anyone significant.  She's just a nobody, which makes what she's able to accomplish all the more satisfying.  She works extremely well as the flip-side of the coin with Kylo; I loved their interactions with each other.  It was great to see her come to a realization of what the Force truly is and her own place in it.

-Speaking of coming into their own, Kylo feels like far more than a tempestuous angsty teen now.  I mean he's still angsty as hell, but with some actual depth to his inner conflict.  It was a spectacular touch having the two opposing viewpoint flashbacks to his falling-out with Luke before we were able to get the true story.  As BlueFlames noted, that entire confrontation with Snoke was set up as a retread of ROTJ's climactic confrontation, only to have it be subverted spectacularly.  He sees the only way to move forward as quite literally killing his own past, and he's ready and willing to grab whatever power he can in the process.  I'm really looking forward to seeing how everything plays out.

-Our boy Finn is getting lucky here.  I saw some people giving Rose's character some flak, but it was refreshing to see this universe through the perspective of someone who didn't necessarily have great talent or import, and I though she played well with Finn.  That final almost-sacrifice gave me a legitimate "they wouldn't..." pause.

-Andy Serkis continues to be utterly fantastic in every single mo-cap character he attempts.  Snoke wound up being rather anti-climactic as an apparent big bad, but he was captivating while he was on-screen.  (If only the same could be said about Phasma...)

-The hyperspace suicide jump...my God.  That was brilliant cinematography, and even better sound design.  Probably would have been better if the purple-haired general tried that before half the unarmed transports got obliterated, but what can you do.  Speaking of, one thing that made me snicker a bit was the suggestion that they were "cloaked" somehow.  Apparently the New Order never looked out the front windows. :lol:

-Loved the homage to ROTJ with the Falcon's flight through the crystal caverns, complete with the same music cues.  Another great little moment was when the one random grunt comments on the ground being made of salt.  "This isn't Hoth, we swear!"

-Yooooodaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!! Out of everything in this movie, that was by far the moment I was happiest about not being spoiled on.  I had a big doofy grin on my face the entire time he was on-screen.  Crazy senile ESB Yoda is the goddamn best. :D

If there is one general criticism I could level at the Disney era, it's that these new films seem to rely more on outside material than the original trilogy ever did.  After two of these films I know very little about how circumstances led from the Empire's defeat after Endor to the current political situation, and even then I only found out by reading a general-interest background article a few weeks ago.  Lord knows we don't need anything resembling the prequel trilogy's political bull****, but the tiniest bit of additional world-building would have served everything better.  That aside, at the end of the day I was more than pleased with this.  It was a solid step up from The Force Awakens, and two years is going to seem like an eternity.

(One other tiny quibble: poor Ackbar barely even got a mention when he went. :()

 

Offline Scotty

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Re: *SPOILER THREAD* Star Wars: The Last Jedi
Before you suggest the new films rely more on outside material, answer me these questions, pulling purely from the original trilogy:

Who was the Emperor, and how did he rise to power?

What was so cool about Boba Fett?

Why is Tattooine so important?

Who were those red guys in the ceremonial robes on the second Death Star?

 

Offline Mongoose

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Re: *SPOILER THREAD* Star Wars: The Last Jedi
The main bad guy who's in charge of all of the bad guys.  He dissolved the Senate, which made Leia upset so we know it's a bad thing.

Boba Fett looks cool and flies a cool ship, which is the only reason anyone ever really needed.

It...isn't?  I mean the whole point of A New Hope is that Luke is living at the ass-end of nowhere.

Super-special guards for the Emperor.

I mean I totally get the point you're making, but the huge difference here is that A New Hope was what founded the entire mythos and was by its very nature intended to stand on its own.  It referenced things like the Clone Wars to add to the sense that this was a real place with its own real history, but none of them were particularly essential for understanding the import of the immediate setting.  The rest of the trilogy filled in a few bits and pieces, but they were ancillary to the story being told.  The decades since then have seen a staggering amount of media that fill in and expand all of those little bits and pieces for better or worse, the prequel trilogy obviously being a glaring example of how not to do so.  Even beyond that, there's the whole collective fan speculation on how things would have turned out after the victory over the second Death Star.  Fast-forward to today, with the old EU declared non-canon, and The Force Awakens opens with a very different political landscape than the one we'd expected for over 30 years.  Unlike with A New Hope, these new films are built on what already exists, and there's definitely a gap left on how we moved from point A to point B.  I'm not saying it's a major concern, but I remember reading the opening crawl of TFA and thinking, "Okay wait what happened to the New Republic and where the hell did these First Order guys come from and how did they get a massive superweapon and what's going on here?"  Sure, you can get by mostly fine without it, but it's hard to see how things got to this juncture.  Hell, maybe Disney's saving that for an interquel.

 
Re: *SPOILER THREAD* Star Wars: The Last Jedi
-Yooooodaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!! Out of everything in this movie, that was by far the moment I was happiest about not being spoiled on.  I had a big doofy grin on my face the entire time he was on-screen.  Crazy senile ESB Yoda is the goddamn best. :D

Crazy Yoda was an act to test Lukes Patience, he wasn't actually senile. :wtf:

It honestly felt out of place since he was putting on a personae built for that specific purpose.

 

Offline The E

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Re: *SPOILER THREAD* Star Wars: The Last Jedi
-With all apologies to Mark Hamill, I thought Luke's character arc was handled just fine.

No apologies necessary, really.

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There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
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Offline Mika

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Re: *SPOILER THREAD* Star Wars: The Last Jedi
Regarding the general audience response to the movie, I think that's wholly justified.

I get what they were trying to do with this movie. I get what they were trying to say, the key word being trying. It's just that they did nearly all of it in a very poor way, or vaguely enough so that the interpretation can be anything. Contrary to a lot of people from start-up business, I'm saying ideas alone are mostly worthless. It's both the execution and the idea, and where this movie misses is in the execution department.

Humor is tacked on and removes any suspense and dramatical build-up. Pacing is off in a way that there are several scenes that would have required more time (but were literally cut short), and there's stuff that should be cut, but remains tacked on, adding nada to the movie. Force was formerly something that required a lot of consciuous effort to use, where as this movie establishes it's really not that challenging. So if that's the case, where are the other force sensitives? Finn objected for killing seemingly innocent people in the first episode, but he has no problem killing a large number of First Order staff in this flick. Kylo Ren is mostly unintentional EPIC RAEG comedy, making us bet about the worth or usefulness of the equipment he's gonna wreck next. If they want to base the demise of First Order on Kylo's easily manipulated nature and unsuitability for being a leader, a far more subtle approach would have worked better.

The few bits that did fit in my opinion were Luke milking the Porgs (read that as him trying to shock his student to gauge her response as he just established Force is all around), and him brushing off the dust of the shoulder. That detail is a cliche, but given the context, also wonderful intimidation.

I don't think I've seen the former Empire or the First Order routinely kidnapping kids to make them stormtroopers - training a soldier doesn't require that long time to begin with. Secondly, kidnapped people would be a terrible idea to begin with for the base of an army. I have always thought the stormtroopers were either cloned or drafted. Sending children to Jedi academy is different as they would see only practise fields for the first ten years. The difference in the ending is that Rebel Alliance is now fully using children as its agents and risking their lives as well.  What they are trying to say in the end is that there's now hope, but it comes off in a way that they are desperate enough to use children and can't convince adults to their cause.

It's strange to see comments such as "dumb masses" not realizing what the movie is saying, where as I think the "dumb masses" understood what the movie was trying to say, but saw it "a bit" differently.
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Offline The E

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Re: *SPOILER THREAD* Star Wars: The Last Jedi
I don't think I've seen the former Empire or the First Order routinely kidnapping kids to make them stormtroopers - training a soldier doesn't require that long time to begin with. Secondly, kidnapped people would be a terrible idea to begin with for the base of an army. I have always thought the stormtroopers were either cloned or drafted. Sending children to Jedi academy is different as they would see only practise fields for the first ten years. The difference in the ending is that Rebel Alliance is now fully using children as its agents and risking their lives as well.  What they are trying to say in the end is that there's now hope, but it comes off in a way that they are desperate enough to use children and can't convince adults to their cause.

Being kidnapped as a child by the New Order is Finn's backstory.
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
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Offline Bryan See

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Re: *SPOILER THREAD* Star Wars: The Last Jedi
Why does the bombers in FS2 and its total conversion mods didn't drop bombs on targets?

I am sure the FSO team will figure out to implement this feature that allows bombers to drop bombs on targets.
Yeah, these bombs in FS2 does have thrusters like missiles. Is it possible to have them no thruster glows in POF files?

Just have a launcher that points downward instead of forward. Done.

But I doubt anybody will do it (except maybe in an atmosphere situation where there's gravity), because in space, it's dumb.

Why not have bombs don't have thrusters? Because bombs in FS2 behave the way a missile does.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2017, 12:46:57 pm by Bryan See »
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Offline Mongoose

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Re: *SPOILER THREAD* Star Wars: The Last Jedi
Random shower thought: near the start of the film, Luke scoffs at Rey asking him for help, wondering if he's supposed to stand in front of the entire First Order waving a lightsaber at them.  So then where does he find himself in the end? Yep. :D

 
Re: *SPOILER THREAD* Star Wars: The Last Jedi
Yeah, I love that Luke's last act is punking Kylo infront of his entire army, and solidifying his legend for all time which is emphasized with the kids playing out that scene with toys back on Canto Bight.

 

Offline Buckshee Rounds

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Re: *SPOILER THREAD* Star Wars: The Last Jedi
...I remember reading the opening crawl of TFA and thinking, "Okay wait what happened to the New Republic and where the hell did these First Order guys come from and how did they get a massive superweapon and what's going on here?"  Sure, you can get by mostly fine without it, but it's hard to see how things got to this juncture.  Hell, maybe Disney's saving that for an interquel.

IIRC, the opening crawl for TLJ actually name-dropped the New Republic and stated outright that it had fallen to the First Order. It also mentioned the Resistance as being General Leia's army (or words to that effect).

It might've been interesting if the New Republic had been the big military force in the galaxy, hunting down Imperial remnants so that the Imperials wound up being rag-tag rebels. Maybe a good opportunity for some moralising?

I really enjoyed TLJ, much more so than TFA. Kinda wished Ackbar had been the one to do the Hyperspace-ram so his death would actually count. Not sure why they didn't go that way tbh, since replacing Holdo with Ackbar would've made Poe's insubordination have a greater impact too.

 

Offline Mongoose

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Re: *SPOILER THREAD* Star Wars: The Last Jedi
Yeah, Holdo felt like something of a throwaway character.  We were told about her being Leia's trusted subordinate more than we actually got to see it.  Ackbar deserved some of that screentime.