Author Topic: Wing Commander 6: The Undiscovered Release Date (Star Citizen Thread)  (Read 589064 times)

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Offline CKid

Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
omg Axem, you made me laugh so hard that I started choking. +1
If I agreed with you, we would both be wrong

 
Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Would this level of hostility be tolerated if we were talking about Blue Planet or Diaspora?

I was plenty hostile with WiH's rage-inducing story.
It was tolerated . . .for a few pages of "discourse".

Like I've said before, I don't think it's a scam.  I do think CR wants to build a good game, but he's held back by the fact that he's incompetent.

There's nothing incompetent about their business practices.
You don't charge 2500 dollars for a ship by accident. You do it deliberately. Their entire alpha test is deliberately designed to get money from their players.

Is the game a scam? Who knows. Are they scamming their players? Hell yes.

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Is the game a scam? Who knows. Are they scamming their players? Hell yes.

I'm going to have to agree with Aesaar on the first part. CR really does seem to want to produce an amazing game at the end of this process. I agree with you about the second part though. SC has gotten to the point where the people behind it know it can only ever be what they claimed it would be if they can keep the money rolling in. And the only way to do that is at the expense of the players. That's why we're seeing ships that were supposed to be on sale only once, going back on sale. That's not for the good of the players at all. If something was a promised exclusive, one time only, sale they'd stick with that if they thought promises to the players were the most important thing. But it's not the most important thing any more. Keeping the money rolling in so that the wheels don't come off is most important, even if it means going back on earlier promises.
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Offline 666maslo666

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen

That being said, it blows my mind that someone would spend $600 on a ship for a game that doesn't exist yet. I could buy an entire FPV quadcopter setup for that.

It does not blow my mind. I would not do that because $600 is a relatively lot of money for me, but how about someone who earns so much that the marginal utility of $600 for him is as low as marginal utility of $60 for me?

And I think its a little dishonest how people imply that its only the ship that gets bought here, its obvious that no virtual ship alone has such a great value - the purpose of those pledges is primarily to fund the development of a game you are looking forward to. The ship is just a nice perk in addition to that.
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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Do you really think that many people would be donating 600-1000$ if it weren't for the promise of exclusive ships with fancy-sounding gameplay mechanics(Coming SoonTM).
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Offline Aesaar

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Of course CIG are selling ships.  Even they think so.  You don't need sales tax for donations, and there is sales tax applied to every single item in the pledge store.  These are sales, not donations.

  

Offline 666maslo666

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Of course CIG are selling ships.  Even they think so.  You don't need sales tax for donations, and there is sales tax applied to every single item in the pledge store.  These are sales, not donations.

This does not prove anything. You need to pay sales tax if you provide any product as a reward. This is more about what the state considers sale/donation, not what CIG or backers consider it, or about the backer motivations for buying the ships (which is the topic here).
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return." - Leonardo da Vinci

Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win you are still retarded.

 

Offline 666maslo666

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Do you really think that many people would be donating 600-1000$ if it weren't for the promise of exclusive ships with fancy-sounding gameplay mechanics(Coming SoonTM).

Yes. Such high donations are not exclusive to Star Citizen. There were many other crowdfunded projects where individual people donated larger amounts - because they are rich, can afford it, and want the project to succeed, not primarily because they want the reward for their high donation tier (the rewards for higher tiers are always far below the value of donated money - just like with SC). Its their free decision, and if they can afford it, why should I complain? More money for development means better game for me in the end. So, thank you "whales" for funding the game! :)
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return." - Leonardo da Vinci

Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win you are still retarded.

 

Offline Aesaar

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
CIG clearly consider it selling a product, given that they throw the word sale around all the time.  Concept sale, anniversary sale, Christmas sale.  You don't need to have a sale if all you're asking for are donations.  And if people were backing purely to donate, you wouldn't get so many people hyped about concept sales or whatever.  "It's a donation" is what people say when they try to excuse CIG's money-grubbing (like you're doing now), and when they try to rationalize their purchases to themselves.

You and I both know CIG would have never raised anywhere close to this much money if they hadn't been selling ships.

For a studio so proud of ditching "evil publishers", they're more focused on money than any publisher I've ever seen.

More money for development means better game for me in the end.
Not actually true, as we've explained earlier in this thread, but whatever.  You're not going to understand any better if we explain it again, so I'm not going to waste effort doing it.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2015, 08:46:30 am by Aesaar »

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
More money for development means better game for me in the end.
Except so far it's lead to the exact opposite. More money meant more future creep, more delays, more disorganisation, more disenchantment and less game.
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

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Offline 666maslo666

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
More money for development means better game for me in the end.
Except so far it's lead to the exact opposite. More money meant more future creep, more delays, more disorganisation, more disenchantment and less game.

Feature creep and delays do not mean worse game, they just mean later game. And I am OK with waiting if it means a better game in the end.
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Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Feature creep and delays do not mean worse game, they just mean later game.
I don't know if it's physically possible to facepalm as hard as this statement deserves.
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Feature creep and delays do not mean worse game, they just mean later game.

...I'm going to go with "you've never even been part of a project here on HLP" as the only possible mindset that could produce this sentence.
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
More money for development means better game for me in the end.
Except so far it's lead to the exact opposite. More money meant more future creep, more delays, more disorganisation, more disenchantment and less game.

Feature creep and delays do not mean worse game, they just mean later game. And I am OK with waiting if it means a better game in the end.

John Romero's gonna make you his *****

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Oh don't worry. We've got you covered.


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Offline 666maslo666

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
More money for development means better game for me in the end.
Except so far it's lead to the exact opposite. More money meant more future creep, more delays, more disorganisation, more disenchantment and less game.

Feature creep and delays do not mean worse game, they just mean later game. And I am OK with waiting if it means a better game in the end.

John Romero's gonna make you his *****

You are proving my point. Daikatana was not that bad in itself, it was just suprassed by other FPS games by the time it was finally released. It was likely a better game in the end than if it was released as originally planned, with the old engine, assets and all (just not better enough). So yes, as I said, the delays did not result in a worse game, just a game that came too late, outmatched by competition.

Contrary to FPS, Star Citizen is a game of a niche genre with not much competition, so I am not afraid of the same fate, SC can likely take several years delay without anything similar but better coming along. But even if it happens - someone delivering on SC promises sooner than SC - it would be only good for us players (and not possible without the hype SC generates about the genre in the first place).
« Last Edit: December 22, 2015, 02:42:13 pm by 666maslo666 »
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return." - Leonardo da Vinci

Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win you are still retarded.

 

Offline 666maslo666

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Freespace itself is another example. The development of Freespace Open happens at a snail's pace compared to games with professional studios behind them. Yet 15 years later its still the best space sim game available. Comparing a game of a most popular genre developed during the time when progress in such computer games was probably the fastest with current situation in space sim games is dishonest (fringe genre, practically no competition, at a time when progress has slowed down so much that 5 year old games still look good). Daikatana was surpassed by games such as Quake III and Unreal Tournament by the time it was out, but what is going to be the Quake III or Unreal Tournament of Star Citizen?
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return." - Leonardo da Vinci

Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win you are still retarded.

 

Offline Scotty

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
At the current trajectory, real life.

 

Offline StarSlayer

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
“Think lightly of yourself and deeply of the world”

 

Offline Axem

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Wanting to compare the snail's pace of a hobbyist open source project with a handful of coders active at any time to a hypothetically AAA game studio with an apparently unlimited budget is pretty dishonest too.

What might surpass Star Citizen as a totally open MMO persistent open-world space sim/FPS hybrid free for all game? Nothing this decade probably. In fact if Star Citizen goes under, it'll probably scare off anyone from undertaking this sort of project again.

What might surpass Star Citizen as a space sim only (which is what a lot of people were hoping for to begin with)? Elite, No Man's Sky, Enemy Starfighter, the wealth of other small indie space sims that crop up every other month.