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Off-Topic Discussion => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Mura on September 10, 2012, 03:08:49 pm

Title: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Mura on September 10, 2012, 03:08:49 pm
http://robertsspaceindustries.com The webpage, the access is 42.

http://i.imgur.com/nhjlD.jpg  What you will find once you get in.
http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/znii1/roberts_space_industries_new_homepage_message/

The reddit link i found it at.

Guys, we might be looking at the next commercial full fledged Space Sim that caters to the old school of space sims.

Already signed up and got my golden ticket. GOGOGO.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: 0rph3u5 on September 10, 2012, 03:19:42 pm
Signed up ... reading through the site now ...

This sounds promising:
Quote
the goal of the Roberts Space Industries website is to bring together truly hardcore space simulation fans from around the world to celebrate the genre


@Mura: thanks for the access code, my binary is a bit rusty
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Ghostavo on September 10, 2012, 03:40:41 pm
Let's hope he makes space sims better than he makes websites...
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Mura on September 10, 2012, 03:45:06 pm
It seems to be a team, as I signed up i got a message I thought was scripted, I replied to it and got a prompt response from a non-robot.
Exciting times these* are.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Dragon on September 10, 2012, 03:57:51 pm
Let's hope he makes space sims better than he makes websites...
He does. Believe me, he does. This guy's a living legend, made so many great titles, starting with Wing Commander and continuing on through to Freelancer. I'm looking forward to this new project.
The only downside seems to be that it might be an MMO, but I guess that for a game by Chris freakin' Roberts I won't mind.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Spoon on September 10, 2012, 05:49:11 pm
Exciting!
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Sushi on September 10, 2012, 07:02:06 pm
Other downside: whatever it is is apparently at least 2 years out.

Got my ticket, at any rate. :)
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Dragon on September 10, 2012, 07:16:39 pm
It's supposed to be out at 10 October, this year. Or at least, that's what the countdown seems to indicate.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Commander Zane on September 10, 2012, 07:22:16 pm
More specifically, 10 A.M. EST, on 10 October.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: An4ximandros on September 10, 2012, 07:29:16 pm
MMO? What!? You already killed me off with that!
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Beskargam on September 10, 2012, 07:50:34 pm
i think he said it would be announced then
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Sushi on September 10, 2012, 10:51:48 pm
i think he said it would be announced then

Correct. 10/10/12 is for the announcement, and once you sign in the page talks about engaging the community about the project "for the next 24 months."
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: IronBeer on September 11, 2012, 12:17:01 am
I'm in. Now we play the waiting game...
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Dragon on September 11, 2012, 06:42:07 am
MMO? What!? You already killed me off with that!
Well, he talked about how internet enabled him to make a "connected experience", which implies an MMO. Freelancer had a pretty good multiplayer (on which a fan-made MMORPG was built, by the way), so if he now can do something he couldn't by the time of FL, it's making a fully fledged MMO.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Alex Heartnet on September 11, 2012, 08:38:09 am
Well, he talked about how internet enabled him to make a "connected experience", which implies an MMO. Freelancer had a pretty good
multiplayer (on which a fan-made MMORPG was built, by the way), so if he now can do something he couldn't by the time of FL, it's making a fully fledged MMO.

Wasn't Freelancer's Mutiplayer originally intended to be like an MMO, though?

A lot of intended features had to be cut out during Freelancer's development cycle.  This game might be trying to do some of the things they couldn't manage with Freelancer.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Dragon on September 11, 2012, 12:31:13 pm
Wasn't Freelancer's Mutiplayer originally intended to be like an MMO, though?

A lot of intended features had to be cut out during Freelancer's development cycle.  This game might be trying to do some of the things they couldn't manage with Freelancer.
Actually, they did accomplish that goal. There's a fanmade Freelancer MMORPG called Discovery. It does include quite a lot of additions (an entire new faction, for starters), but it's also possible to play retail FL like that.
I really don't see what great innovations could be introduced here that weren't in FL. I think it'll be pretty much another MMO, at least this time it'll be well written. I doubt it'll have an SP mode, a campaign and a military setting I liked so much in WC games.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Alex Heartnet on September 11, 2012, 02:39:32 pm
Actually, they did accomplish that goal. There's a fanmade Freelancer MMORPG called Discovery. It does include quite a lot of additions (an entire new faction, for starters), but it's also possible to play retail FL like that.
I really don't see what great innovations could be introduced here that weren't in FL. I think it'll be pretty much another MMO, at least this time it'll be well written. I doubt it'll have an SP mode, a campaign and a military setting I liked so much in WC games.

The Discovery modding team did not accomplish anything near what was originally planned for Freelancer.  Eve Online accomplished many of these goals, but Eve is very much a niche game with its own set of issues.

Quote from: Wikipedia Article on Freelancer
In 1997, Chris Roberts began work on a vision he had since he first conceived Wing Commander. He wanted to realize a virtual galaxy, whose systems execute their own programs regardless of the players' presence; cities would be bustling with transports and each world's weather changes on its own time. Commodity prices in each star system would fluctuate, according to the activities of the computer controlled traders, who import and export goods. Roberts envisioned thousands of players simultaneously interacting with and influencing this world through a unique and intuitive user interface never seen before in other games. Each player could pursue a quest set up for their character, and join other players to attempt other missions together without needing to exit the game and start a new mode of play. Artificial intelligence would fly the players' spacecraft, letting them concentrate on combat or other tasks. Roberts intended the cutscenes and gameplay visuals to be of equal quality so players would be unable to distinguish between the two.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: haloboy100 on September 11, 2012, 04:59:39 pm
MMO or not, I'll pay and play it, but if it is an MMO, I'll probably be sick of it within a month.
Also, still havn't gotten the activation email since this morning...how long did it take you guys to get it?
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Dragon on September 11, 2012, 05:31:17 pm
The Discovery modding team did not accomplish anything near what was originally planned for Freelancer.  Eve Online accomplished many of these goals, but Eve is very much a niche game with its own set of issues.
I was only referring to an "MMO-like multiplayer". The initial goal of Freelancer was far too ambitious for the age it was made in. Roberts might accomplish most of his goals for FL now, but I'd still prefer to see another WC title, or a singleplayer sequel to Freelancer.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Scourge of Ages on September 11, 2012, 05:56:53 pm
MMO or not, I'll pay and play it, but if it is an MMO, I'll probably be sick of it within a month.
Also, still havn't gotten the activation email since this morning...how long did it take you guys to get it?

I got mine immediately.

And if it is like Freelancer, but an MMO with other players taking the place of the AI (in the open section at least), I will be all over that. That's why I didn't keep playing past the end of the campaign, just got boring without any real challenges out there.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Alex Heartnet on September 12, 2012, 04:56:39 am
I got mine immediately.

And if it is like Freelancer, but an MMO with other players taking the place of the AI (in the open section at least), I will be all over that. That's why I didn't keep playing past the end of the campaign, just got boring without any real challenges out there.

This is one of the most common complaints with Freelancer is that there isn't much to do once you beaten it.

As for replacing every single computer ship with a player, that idea is actually quite brilliant.  Imagine one player being paid to escort a transport, while another player is being paid to destroy it...
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Mefustae on September 12, 2012, 05:20:43 am
Also, still havn't gotten the activation email since this morning...how long did it take you guys to get it?

Check your junk, I found mine in there.

I honestly loved Freelancer, and the Wing Commander series makes me go all fuzzy inside from memories of playing it with my brothers when I was young. If Roberts can bring to this anything of what he brought to those games, then it'll be well worth my time and money.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: TrashMan on September 12, 2012, 07:37:13 am
I ADORED the Freelancer singleplayer. Modded the hell out of it to boot. Rebalanced everything. Got rid of stupid scaling for ships. That was the only thing I really hated.

Heall yeah, I'll support this.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Hades on September 12, 2012, 11:46:16 am
Actually, they did accomplish that goal. There's a fanmade Freelancer MMORPG called Discovery. It does include quite a lot of additions (an entire new faction, for starters), but it's also possible to play retail FL like that.
I really don't see what great innovations could be introduced here that weren't in FL. I think it'll be pretty much another MMO, at least this time it'll be well written. I doubt it'll have an SP mode, a campaign and a military setting I liked so much in WC games.
Discovery was a rancid piece of trash, don't talk about it.

And there's quite a lot of things not present in Freelancer that could have been. More ship variety, turrets being AI controlled, dynamic economy, dynamic npcs and more npcs and larger NPCs like capitals flying around, deeper ship customization and equipment, etc etc.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: haloboy100 on September 12, 2012, 12:21:47 pm
I played Freelancer singleplayer. I spend about a hundred hours just exploring the beautiful universe after I beat the campaign. I spend another hundred or so doing it over again with the Discovery mod.

I tried playing it online, but that just seemed to make it all worse. Suddenly the universe wasn't mine anymore.

I hope that, if this new project is an MMO, it will offer at least as much singleplayer content to keep me similarly entertained.

What's wrong with discovery? Perhaps it was crap if you played multiplayer, I wouldn't know. But for singleplayer, all it did was add to the experience for me.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Sushi on September 12, 2012, 03:00:59 pm
Ah, Discovery.

Fond memories of people desperately trying to pretend that their actions made the remotest dent in the game universe.

Pretty fun anyway, especially to play as "single player with the slight chance that some random human player will try to blow you up."
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: haloboy100 on September 12, 2012, 03:28:45 pm
Pretty fun anyway, especially to play as "single player with the slight chance that some random human player will try to blow you up."
Which is why I question the point of multiplayer in a game so massive...
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Alex Heartnet on September 12, 2012, 03:33:02 pm
Ah, Discovery.

Fond memories of people desperately trying to pretend that their actions made the remotest dent in the game universe.

Pretty fun anyway, especially to play as "single player with the slight chance that some random human player will try to blow you up."

Yeah, the game masters over in Discovery are very unwilling to shape the module around current roleplay.  Everything just remains the same regardless of player input.  Now, Freelancer isn't a game that is meant to be modded, but surely a lot more could be done in that regard.

A while back a few such groups actually managed to break up the routine a little with a new war.  Previously-desolate systems suddenly became busy battlegrounds as players desperately wanting something new joined in on the chaos.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Hades on September 12, 2012, 03:42:45 pm
What's wrong with discovery? Perhaps it was crap if you played multiplayer, I wouldn't know. But for singleplayer, all it did was add to the experience for me.
Poor balancing. The bombers are just as small as fighters barring two exceptions, and turn only somewhat slower than they do. It basically means that bombers can ignore escort fighters while pounding on a capital.

Many, many instances of poor balancing that aren't as large in scale that I won't go into.

Pirates having battleships. I mean really, the Blood Dragons are a small, SMALL organization who somehow managed to find battleships out of thin air. The Corsairs and Outcasts may have planets but lack the industry, among other things, to produce and field capital vessels.

Numerous stupidly empty systems that serve little to no purpose.

Horrible models with even worse texturing.

The story bits added are absolute garbage too. Kusari and Bretonia only just going to war over a few system that have been around for ages and have relatively little in them, Liberty and Rheinland going to war because Liberty wants a border system so that they can build prisons there (lolwut, they already own plenty of systems for that), the Nomads still being around despite being removed in the singleplayer (retcon lol), the very few Coalition saboteurs on the Hispania sleeper ship somehow making a relatively large remake of the Coalition, among other things.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: haloboy100 on September 12, 2012, 08:54:43 pm
Meh. I had tons of fun with it.

Also, I played back before the whole war thing was part of discovery's story, and some of the factions weren't in (like the french and coalition factions).
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: pecenipicek on September 12, 2012, 10:08:42 pm
What's wrong with discovery? Perhaps it was crap if you played multiplayer, I wouldn't know. But for singleplayer, all it did was add to the experience for me.
Poor balancing. The bombers are just as small as fighters barring two exceptions, and turn only somewhat slower than they do. It basically means that bombers can ignore escort fighters while pounding on a capital.

Many, many instances of poor balancing that aren't as large in scale that I won't go into.

Pirates having battleships. I mean really, the Blood Dragons are a small, SMALL organization who somehow managed to find battleships out of thin air. The Corsairs and Outcasts may have planets but lack the industry, among other things, to produce and field capital vessels.

Numerous stupidly empty systems that serve little to no purpose.

Horrible models with even worse texturing.

The story bits added are absolute garbage too. Kusari and Bretonia only just going to war over a few system that have been around for ages and have relatively little in them, Liberty and Rheinland going to war because Liberty wants a border system so that they can build prisons there (lolwut, they already own plenty of systems for that), the Nomads still being around despite being removed in the singleplayer (retcon lol), the very few Coalition saboteurs on the Hispania sleeper ship somehow making a relatively large remake of the Coalition, among other things.
you are forgetting xenos always ****ing everyone's **** up. (back when i played, guess which faction had more capships and bombers than any and i do mean any faction in the game...)

god i hated discovery and the people playing it.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: RVR72G on October 02, 2012, 07:16:44 am
Anyway.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJJTnG02WYM
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Colonol Dekker on October 02, 2012, 08:00:51 am
Just wanted to check how many of us had Golden Tickets?
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Mikes on October 02, 2012, 11:38:44 am
MMO? What!? You already killed me off with that!

Yeah... it smells a lot like an MMO - or should i say "stinks" ;) lol
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Patriot on October 04, 2012, 02:32:26 pm
Golden Ticket right here :D
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Dragon on October 04, 2012, 02:36:20 pm
I've also got one. MMO or not, in Chris Roberts I trust. :)
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: headdie on October 04, 2012, 03:21:12 pm
same here, loving the second guessing on the forum atm
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Davros on October 04, 2012, 04:22:11 pm
Interesting but mr roberts has never made a hardcore space simulator
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: MatthTheGeek on October 04, 2012, 05:16:50 pm
Probably because players are more interested in games than in simulators. Am all for it.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: headdie on October 04, 2012, 05:24:37 pm
lets face it we are on a board for FreeSpace games which have more in common with Wing Commander than anything else in it's core mechanics.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Droid803 on October 06, 2012, 05:42:33 pm
Okay, I'll admit, I've never played WC, don't really feel inclined to (old games hurt my eyes)
I'll also admit I've never played FreeLancer, but I've read about it and it sounds really cool.

I just signed up and got a ticket. Does everyone get one?
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Dragon on October 07, 2012, 04:49:05 am
Everyone who registers before the Big Announcement.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Alex Heartnet on October 07, 2012, 05:26:00 am
Okay, I'll admit, I've never played WC, don't really feel inclined to (old games hurt my eyes)
I'll also admit I've never played FreeLancer, but I've read about it and it sounds really cool.

I can guarantee that Freelancer won't hurt your eyes.  It actually looks quite nice for a game that is as old as it is.

I'm tempted to sign up, but given the string of excellent releases this year, I think I might pass.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: MatthTheGeek on October 07, 2012, 05:28:39 am
Well the UI will hurt your eyes if you're on some hardware that has compatibility issues with whatever directdraw they're using, like me.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Dragon on October 07, 2012, 01:55:52 pm
Okay, I'll admit, I've never played WC, don't really feel inclined to (old games hurt my eyes)
I'll also admit I've never played FreeLancer, but I've read about it and it sounds really cool.

I can guarantee that Freelancer won't hurt your eyes.  It actually looks quite nice for a game that is as old as it is.

I'm tempted to sign up, but given the string of excellent releases this year, I think I might pass.
Sign up. It costs nothing, and you get the ticket. It doesn't oblige you to anything.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Hades on October 07, 2012, 09:15:46 pm
Well the UI will hurt your eyes if you're on some hardware that has compatibility issues with whatever directdraw they're using, like me.
I'd say the poor graphics, and fake looking everything would hurt one's eyes too. :P

Okay, I'll admit, I've never played WC, don't really feel inclined to (old games hurt my eyes)
Don't. WC is super, super dull. Not worth your time.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Dragon on October 08, 2012, 08:38:38 pm
If you want to shoot a lot of things with shiny graphics and flashy weapons, so play BF3 (or retail FS2 campaign). Or any other mainstream game, there's an entire gaming industry just for you. Classics are played not for graphics or flashy gameplay, but for deep story, interesting characters and good plot. That's why I consider vanilla FS inferior to WC and XWA. Too much shooting, not enough story. Wing Commander feels like were playing a movie (and WC3 is even called "Origin Interactive Movie" on the box I have) rather than a game.

Wing Commander is definitely worth your time if you like a good story with great immersion, even though your cellphone could probably do graphics better than WCP (the latest game in the series). Also, the quality for the FMVs in WC3 to WCP is excellent (starring Mark Hamill as the main character, BTW).
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: SpardaSon21 on October 08, 2012, 09:08:08 pm
He's much better as the Joker, though.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Droid803 on October 09, 2012, 12:26:47 am
I've played XWA, it looked nice enough with the XWAUP stuff. :P
The main issue I have with olllld games is the fact that it sometimes triggers my claustrophobia with the limited window size and all (not to mention it totally messes up my dualscreen setup XD)
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: JGZinv on October 09, 2012, 12:39:16 am
Well you could play tachyon...
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Colonol Dekker on October 09, 2012, 07:22:24 am
For the Love of Sithar, I condemn the anti-wc sentiments of those that have never played it to the depths of n'thrak!!
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: TrashMan on October 09, 2012, 08:07:55 am
WC was ok.

For the most part I found it somewhat boring as 99% of all missions were the same.
Patrol waypoints, kill baddies.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: MatthTheGeek on October 09, 2012, 12:24:13 pm
WCS killed everything WC forever for me.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Dragon on October 09, 2012, 12:46:40 pm
I've got a pretty ambitious idea how to patch it up (not the story, but gameplay/"fidelity" shortcomings). WCS changed less than I thought, and I think that the biggest problem is the gun bank limit. I'm currently waiting for all HUD gauges to support RTT, to test a concept I have for cockpits.

Anyway, I hope the next RSI project would be an "interactive movie", like old Wing Commander games.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Deathsnake on October 10, 2012, 03:18:56 am
Want Space sex? Here it go:

http://www.gametrailers.com/videos/gx1of4/squadron-42-star-citizen-trailer

!!!! OMG


Min 1.08 on the Radar... Kilrathi Emblem!!!!
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: MatthTheGeek on October 10, 2012, 05:36:08 am
That's shiny.

But, at the risk of playing Captain obvious again, shiny graphics doesn't make a good game.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: starbug on October 10, 2012, 06:06:52 am
Ok while the graphics look good, i would also like to make the same point MatththeGeek made, Graphics don't make a good game, the gamplay has to be good as well, so lets hope that the gameplay mechanics are up to the same quality of the graphics. Also if this is good let us hope is brings the space sim games back and lets hope it comes with modding tools and mission editors as in a interview on Gamespot Chris Roberts says he likes the trend of companys releasing the tools to the community and the mods.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Rodo on October 10, 2012, 08:39:55 am
Looks too good to be true.

I'll wait, thank you.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Killer Whale on October 10, 2012, 09:38:57 am
20 million poly hangar?! Real-time? Woah.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Topgun on October 10, 2012, 09:50:46 am
no more golden tickets

:(
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Killer Whale on October 10, 2012, 10:30:38 am
Lotsa' updates means lotsa' content means lotsa' good content means good story, yay!
You actually fly a fighter, or any large ship, yay!
There's a squillion and one polies, yay!
Persistent universe and ship interiors, yay!
The game is so far before alpha it isn't funny, nay!
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: MatthTheGeek on October 10, 2012, 10:34:36 am
Lotsa' updates means lotsa' content means lotsa' good content means good story
Huh wat. Sounds like you have a heavy reasoning failure here.

You can have lots of content (lots of good content even) and nothing even coming close to a good story. Haters gonna hate, but Skyrim comes to mind.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: General Battuta on October 10, 2012, 10:38:04 am
The Wing Commander story has always been pretty basic WW2 in space cheeseburger fare and Freelancer was barely any less superficial. Executed well it can be fun, though it's never had the subtextual or philosophical depth FS2 had. Maybe we'll get more of the same.

Given that most science fiction fans are satisfied with plot and gadgets I suspect they don't need to reach too far to meet demand.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Luis Dias on October 10, 2012, 10:50:45 am
Oh look it's blue pew pew pew ... in spaaace!!! So kewl one1!!!
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Gloriano on October 10, 2012, 10:52:52 am
This could be reallly awesome if it get's made since it seems to be crowd funded game where the first goal is at 2 million....
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Dragon on October 10, 2012, 11:13:37 am
The Wing Commander story has always been pretty basic WW2 in space cheeseburger fare and Freelancer was barely any less superficial. Executed well it can be fun, though it's never had the subtextual or philosophical depth FS2 had. Maybe we'll get more of the same.

Given that most science fiction fans are satisfied with plot and gadgets I suspect they don't need to reach too far to meet demand.
TBH, I found philosophical elements in FS2 "overengineered" and a bit out of place, you could say "detached" from the player and events in the story. Even if idea was very intelligent, the execution was poor. BP done that much better, it was very deep, but also very immersive, and the philosophical elements felt much less abstract. Perhaps having actual characters was the thing, as philosophy without characters to think about it usually seems either empty or preachy.

Wing Commander storylines might seem like fairly standard "WWII in space" fare, but they were cleverly executed, had memorable characters and some interesting twists, not to mention excellent cast in the later games. Not to mentions early WC games most likely played a role in establishing the aforementioned standard.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Hades on October 10, 2012, 11:56:54 am
If you want to shoot a lot of things with shiny graphics and flashy weapons, so play BF3 (or retail FS2 campaign). Or any other mainstream game, there's an entire gaming industry just for you. Classics are played not for graphics or flashy gameplay, but for deep story, interesting characters and good plot. That's why I consider vanilla FS inferior to WC and XWA. Too much shooting, not enough story. Wing Commander feels like were playing a movie (and WC3 is even called "Origin Interactive Movie" on the box I have) rather than a game.

Wing Commander is definitely worth your time if you like a good story with great immersion, even though your cellphone could probably do graphics better than WCP (the latest game in the series). Also, the quality for the FMVs in WC3 to WCP is excellent (starring Mark Hamill as the main character, BTW).
WC isn't dull because it has a story, WC is dull because it has a massively cliche story that's very straightforward in its execution and gives nothing new or interesting to the formula. The story and plot were about as deep as a puddle of water.

The ships are also more or less best described as dull too.

And I've certainly seen classics that had fun gameplay and good story, like FreeSpace 2.

Quote
Classics are played not for graphics or flashy gameplay, but for deep story, interesting characters and good plot.
Why would I want to play a game with a dull story and dull gameplay? Gameplay is easily the most important aspect of a game, hence the name. A game without good gameplay may as well be a movie or book. :P
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Deathsnake on October 10, 2012, 11:58:03 am
http://www.gamespot.com/shows/gamespot-live/?event=roberts_space_industries_gdc_panel20121010

if you miss the Live Show ;)

Gogo 2 Millions are the minimal target. I'm in with 60$ ;)
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: TrashMan on October 10, 2012, 01:41:44 pm
(http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/050/504/came.jpg)

(http://zipmeme.com/uploads/generated/g1323780500380022877.jpg)
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Dragon on October 10, 2012, 01:54:18 pm
WC isn't dull because it has a story, WC is dull because it has a massively cliche story that's very straightforward in its execution and gives nothing new or interesting to the formula. The story and plot were about as deep as a puddle of water.

The ships are also more or less best described as dull too.

And I've certainly seen classics that had fun gameplay and good story, like FreeSpace 2.
WC had a cliche story, mostly because it created these cliches (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SeinfeldIsUnfunny). You could say that about any sufficiently copied story. It seems to give nothing new or interesting now, simply because it was the original. TBH, same goes for it's gameplay (you should see the ads for it back in the day...). Keep in mind these things are ancient, and were among the most innovative games of the day. It still did a few things better, notably damage system and cockpits, which added greatly to immersion. WC3 already had some things we're still missing from FSO.

WC didn't delve into philosophy like FS2 tried to, and IIRC, it was better off for it. It was well written and had good, likeable characters, unlike FS2. BP is how metaphysical subtexts in FS2 should've been handled. I also didn't had anybody to care about in FS2, while in WC, there was a whole ensemble of people whom I really learned to like (and a few I didn't like, but in the "enjoy seeing him clobbered" way :)). Also, while the story of most WC games wasn't really deep compared to some others I played, WC4 stands out in that it had a very deep story asking some very important questions. And unlike in the movies, you could choose the answer youself.
Quote
Quote
Classics are played not for graphics or flashy gameplay, but for deep story, interesting characters and good plot.
Why would I want to play a game with a dull story and dull gameplay? Gameplay is easily the most important aspect of a game, hence the name. A game without good gameplay may as well be a movie or book. :P
Actually, Origin even called Wing Commander "Origin Interactive Movie", and the movie-like experience was one of the things I missed the most from FS2. Gameplay in FS2 was also rather medicore compared to I-War or Starshatter, being arcade-y and not consisting of much besides shooting at things (a few gimmick missions notwithstanding). It wasn't much better than in Wing Commander, and even inferior in some places (usually ones important for the immersion).

In general, I think Wing Commander does immersion a lot better than FS2, with little things like cockpits, carrier landings, visible instrument damage, ejection seat, memorable wingmen... FS2 had none of those things.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Colonol Dekker on October 10, 2012, 02:10:51 pm
I am content... This might ruin my relationship before it even starts  :lol:
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: General Battuta on October 10, 2012, 02:15:06 pm
The philosophical content in FS2 was in the subtext and the formal relationship to its predecessor. I doubt 95% of players ever kenned to it in anything but a visceral sense.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: JGZinv on October 10, 2012, 02:23:44 pm
Don't suppose we could get back to talking about Star Citizen....

After sitting through the hour long video, I can see he's passionate about the game, but I wonder if they are overselling it.
An EVE for the monetary and more combat based WC style is what I think a lot of folks thought EVE would be in the beginning.
There's a heck of a lot of things that can bite them in the butt though, largely I think on the multiplayer side (so many objects at X res in an instance)
that you're not going to see a RTS MMO level of BoE throw down. More likely you'd have a much larger "system war" with dozens of instances
of smaller groups of players, with the verdict tipping the scale towards who won the area type thing.

But his bottlenecks are going to be internet connections, particularly in the US.. are still in a pretty poor state. Since this has a November 2014 tentative
release date, the hardware might have come around closer, but he's talking about this running on a GTX600 series, which is a micro percentage of people's
rigs out there currently. That'll have likely shifted to the mid range by then... still that's a heck of a powerful card/entrance fee.


I think my concerns right now are:

1. How moddable is this going to be. It was a keynote in his speech, but he didn't directly reference it other that thruster damage. They are shooting
for standalone servers, which pretty much means if someone tries hard enough, it'll get hacked and editable... and you've got a fs2netd replacement.
How I wish someone would just make a mod engine and market that... let the players make games, let the developer focus on feature additions to make
greater worlds possible.

2. Will it have lateral thrust and glide/slide.   Sliding as in newtonian whiping around in an arc was mentioned, but not what we have as glide/slide.
Lats seem entirely possible, as that's just another thruster placement, but it wasn't brought up.

3. There's quite a few tiers to pay into this, the most bang for buck is the $250. But... I don't see anything on what the ships you're getting look like
or have capabilities of?  There's a generic "this is fighter, this is freighter" but not much more on it than that.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: TrashMan on October 10, 2012, 02:28:03 pm
The Wing Commander story has always been pretty basic WW2 in space cheeseburger fare and Freelancer was barely any less superficial. Executed well it can be fun, though it's never had the subtextual or philosophical depth FS2 had. Maybe we'll get more of the same.

Given that most science fiction fans are satisfied with plot and gadgets I suspect they don't need to reach too far to meet demand.
TBH, I found philosophical elements in FS2 "overengineered" and a bit out of place, you could say "detached" from the player and events in the story. Even if idea was very intelligent, the execution was poor. BP done that much better, it was very deep, but also very immersive, and the philosophical elements felt much less abstract. Perhaps having actual characters was the thing, as philosophy without characters to think about it usually seems either empty or preachy.

Seriously?
I prefer FS2's story over BPs any day.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: General Battuta on October 10, 2012, 02:31:47 pm
They're very different. I don't think comparison is particularly productive and I can definitely see why you'd like FS2's better.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: The E on October 10, 2012, 02:55:44 pm
Quote
still that's a heck of a powerful card/entrance fee.

Just continuing the proud tradition of Origin games, I suppose.

Quote
How I wish someone would just make a mod engine and market that... let the players make games, let the developer focus on feature additions to make
greater worlds possible.

CryEngine Free, OGRE, UDK, Unity, NeoAxis and others would like to say hello.

In other words, making a game is hard. Not as hard as it was a few years ago, but still not exactly easy.

Quote
2. Will it have lateral thrust and glide/slide.   Sliding as in newtonian whiping around in an arc was mentioned, but not what we have as glide/slide. Lats seem entirely possible, as that's just another thruster placement, but it wasn't brought up.

I don't think they have the gameplay formula locked down completely yet.

Quote
3. There's quite a few tiers to pay into this, the most bang for buck is the $250. But... I don't see anything on what the ships you're getting look like or have capabilities of?  There's a generic "this is fighter, this is freighter" but not much more on it than that.

I suspect that they don't know those yet. Hell, they have just completed a first rough tech demo in the hope of attracting investors; it would be silly for them to have made such decisions at this point.


Also, JGZ, you are aware that you do not have to insert manual linebreaks everywhere? I don't know how big your browser window is, but I can guarantee that your posts will look weird on any other
because of these
linebreaks everywhere.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: JGZinv on October 10, 2012, 03:20:42 pm
Quote
CryEngine Free, OGRE, UDK, Unity, NeoAxis

None of which are designed for MMO or space sim specific.

Quote
Also, JGZ, you are aware that you do not have to insert manual linebreaks everywhere? I don't know how big your browser window is, but I can guarantee that your posts will look weird on any other
because of these
linebreaks everywhere.

Call it force of habit, as people have been reminding me of that since I joined in 06.
I have 2*23 inch screens at 1920x1080... so things have plenty of room to stretch out.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Colonol Dekker on October 10, 2012, 03:23:55 pm
Just watched the reveal/presentations vid... I'm still keen.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Gloriano on October 10, 2012, 03:34:21 pm
I really don't understand why they don't use Kickstarter site for this the site site crapped on me when i was putting 60 towards this game.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Colonol Dekker on October 10, 2012, 03:40:56 pm
Anyone else having trouble logging in?

I fear my golden ticket has been pwnd :\
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Col. Fishguts on October 10, 2012, 03:44:38 pm
Looks shiny. I just hope they're not gonna stick to the WC gameplay formula of

10 Fly to next nav point
20 Kill X number of bad guys
30 GOTO 10

This always bored me to death. I understand that is was a clever way to limit the number of ships in a mission at a given time and thus save resources in the WC1 era. But the fact that they kept the gameplay like this up to Prophecy and even Starlancer is beyond me.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Scourge of Ages on October 10, 2012, 04:13:52 pm
Chris Roberts uses the same joystick I do! Even though he played his tech demo with a 360 controller, the video focused very heavily on the X52. I will give him money.

And how many faces did he say that pilot model had? 100k? That seems a bit excessive.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Droid803 on October 10, 2012, 06:31:53 pm
I can't even crapping see anything and its asking me to pledge money wut.
Whoever made that website is fail.

They also apparently shot my login.
So I guess I'm back to "all my I don't care".
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: achtung on October 10, 2012, 07:14:27 pm
Watched the pitch video, seems like a lot of pandering and unrealistic promises.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Mongoose on October 10, 2012, 07:22:41 pm
I'd be somewhat more interested in delving into the Wing Commander franchise as a whole if your enemies throughout most of it weren't literal Space Furries.  I mean, the Vasudans and Shivans weren't ridiculously creative as far as alien designs go, but at least you can look at them and get the pop-culture "that's an alien" vibe.  And then there's the Kilrathi...who, to put it bluntly, look like rejects from a cosplay convention.  (Seriously, Thundercats? :p)  I do want to check the games out at some point, but it's kind of hard to take them seriously.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Dragon on October 10, 2012, 07:27:57 pm
It's the case with a lot of old SF. I think Kilrathi design is cool (especially the one from WC1/2, though the later one is somewhat more alien), if dated. Take into account that they were played by actual actors, which would be kind of hard to do with Shivans of Vasudans. Oh, and aside from early designs and Academy (the short lived Wing Commander cartoon), Kilrathi look nothing like Thundercats. Heck, even the "cat" part got a lot less pronounced after WC2. I first though about a mandrill when I saw them in WC4 (WC3 design was more bear-like). :)
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Spoon on October 10, 2012, 08:34:54 pm
http://youtu.be/HY9FUXXaalg 
http://www.gamespot.com/shows/gamespot-live/?event=roberts_space_industries_gdc_panel20121010
Dunno if these were linked yet

Looks amazing for something that is nothing more than just a demo right now. And if anything, I really wanna support chris robert's PC master race attitude. And since it's not on kickstarter, I can actually throw money at them. Which I'll be doing soon.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Unknown Target on October 10, 2012, 10:00:43 pm
How do I register on their donation site?
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Scourge of Ages on October 10, 2012, 10:14:19 pm
What the frak, I can't log in anymore, and it claims there's no account with my e-mail address. Did their login server break or something?

EDIT: According to Twitter, the main site was Diaspora'd, and the one that's up now is the backup. Which doesn't seem to be working right. Everything should get straightened out soon enough.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Colonol Dekker on October 11, 2012, 02:55:51 am
Quote from: Roberts Space Industries Facebook page
We're very sorry for the trouble. You will NOT lose your golden ticket and we will match up all the pledges correctly. :)
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: TrashMan on October 11, 2012, 03:04:23 am
The news that their site gets so much traffic is good news. Hooray for the large avalanche of support!
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Mikes on October 11, 2012, 06:43:34 am
http://youtu.be/HY9FUXXaalg 
http://www.gamespot.com/shows/gamespot-live/?event=roberts_space_industries_gdc_panel20121010
Dunno if these were linked yet

Looks amazing for something that is nothing more than just a demo right now. And if anything, I really wanna support chris robert's PC master race attitude. And since it's not on kickstarter, I can actually throw money at them. Which I'll be doing soon.

Frankly, I'm getting a bit of a "lets bring social gaming coupled with microtransactions to space-sims - salted with some MMO elements" vibe from the whole thing... 

Why can't he just make the state of the art space sim that everyone here would love to play? lol.   
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Killer Whale on October 11, 2012, 07:03:58 am
I dunno, but from what I hear, it can be that too.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Mikes on October 11, 2012, 08:00:32 am
I dunno, but from what I hear, it can be that too.

Well, hope dies last lol.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Spoon on October 11, 2012, 08:57:26 am
I wasn't really getting the social gaming vibe from it. (granted I havent really seen the hour long vid on gamespot yet)

Edit: And then I watched a bit and get where you got the vibe from
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: newman on October 11, 2012, 09:29:01 am
The first two Wing Commander games had a cartoony style to their cutscenes, and the Kilrathi looked like this:

(http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/zz196/newman1702/WingCommanderII-VengeanceoftheKilrathi_10.png)

Which was just fine for a 1990 space shooter game that used space cats as the enemy. With Wing Commander 3, though, they decided to make a technological leap forward and do filmed cutscenes, which was pretty cutting edge at the time. But the Kilrathi design didn't make the transition from cartoon to video too well, and as a result it looked campy. That's easy for me to forgive, taking into account the whole franchise and how it came to be. It was never meant as anything too serious anyway. I can understand how somebody trying to get into it today would find them totally, game-breaking ridiculous.

The problem I had with Wing Commander games wasn't really with the universe or it's species though; it was the fact that I found the X-Wing games much, much better as actual space sims. Wing Commander's flight model just felt bad to me when I compared it to, say, Tie Fighter. The story was engaging and the whole interactive movie thing worked, but I always felt the missions were there just because they had to be to justify calling it a game, and progressing the story always came first to actual game mechanics; while I felt my skills challenged in X-Wing, Tie Fighter, and later outings, Wing Commander was just autopilot sequence - generic shooting at aliens - rinse and repeat.

I consider one of the best games set in that universe to be the often overlooked Privateer 1. That was the only one where I found the gameplay as much fun as following the story - buying new ships, upgrading them, jumping around unexplored systems, it felt good. Privateer 2 never managed to capture me in such a way.

That all being said, the videos of Space Citizen look pretty great to me. I know a video alone proves nothing, but if this thing delivers half of what it promises to it'll be great. The sad fact is that if you want to get funding for a space sim these days, you need to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt it's going to sell - so I do understand the "give us money now and get the game much, much later" approach to some degree. If it resurrects the genre even for a short while, it'll be worth it.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: TrashMan on October 11, 2012, 10:42:16 am
This is weird...I can't log in to the site...

When I try to reset my password, I get that no ac**** with such e-mail exists... wTF?
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Luis Dias on October 11, 2012, 12:23:57 pm
Ahh Privateer! I do miss that game.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Scourge of Ages on October 11, 2012, 02:00:33 pm
This is weird...I can't log in to the site...

When I try to reset my password, I get that no ac**** with such e-mail exists... wTF?

It's a known issue, should be cleared up on its own eventually.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Spoon on October 13, 2012, 02:07:10 pm
Maybe I'm just dumb and blind (unlikely!) but I can't seem to see the difference between the 'First responder' and 'Have starship will travel' pledge. Aside that one is 10 dollar more from the other.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: JGZinv on October 13, 2012, 02:17:44 pm
You get a different title.

Scout vs. Mercenary
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Deathsnake on October 14, 2012, 01:38:54 am
Site is back online. You now can get access to your account or create a new one. Even with this probs the timer is atm at 644.000 $. 32 % complete. Let's push that up. Activate Afterburners!!!

http://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/

Not a million yet... Are you kidding me? ^^
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: JGZinv on October 14, 2012, 01:43:35 am
Not enough press on it honestly.

Honestly 2 mil shouldn't be the target.  You want 4 mil for the "mod tools" and I don't see it getting there without
a lot more publication.  There's at least $15K in people wanting more details before they will donate on the forums.
About half that in overseas folks that are having issues.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: TrashMan on October 14, 2012, 03:17:40 am
Yay! Site back up.

Plopped 40$ for now.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: 666maslo666 on October 14, 2012, 03:54:25 am
Still cannot register or pledge for some reason, I am stuck on the register screen.

I hope the game wont be blurry, as Cryengine 3 games tend to be.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Spoon on October 14, 2012, 12:09:06 pm
Site is back online. You now can get access to your account or create a new one. Even with this probs the timer is atm at 644.000 $. 32 % complete. Let's push that up. Activate Afterburners!!!

http://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/

Not a million yet... Are you kidding me? ^^
Well, they already raised the money that Nexus 2 has as end goal.

Still cannot register or pledge for some reason, I am stuck on the register screen.

I hope the game wont be blurry, as Cryengine 3 games tend to be.
Same, once I hit the complete sign up button nothing happens. it just refreshes the page.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Topgun on October 14, 2012, 08:34:05 pm
The site is back up
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: JCDNWarrior on October 16, 2012, 09:24:44 pm
I have to say, at 875k now 6 to 7 days in, that's not bad at all considering the trouble with the site before and so many people still untapped. I do think it's good to try to spread the word regarding the development of this game and the need for fan support to show the interest in the genre which might benefit us here as well. I haven't been able to donate yet, but will get to it once I have the ability to, thinking of going for a relatively high pledge.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: newman on October 17, 2012, 06:39:04 am
I have to say, at 875k now 6 to 7 days in, that's not bad at all considering the trouble with the site before and so many people still untapped. I do think it's good to try to spread the word regarding the development of this game and the need for fan support to show the interest in the genre which might benefit us here as well. I haven't been able to donate yet, but will get to it once I have the ability to, thinking of going for a relatively high pledge.

This is, among other things, a test to see how wrong the general concensus of the gaming industry about space sims not being profitable really is. So to me the decision whether to pledge some cash or not isn't just about wanting to play that game, it's really about hoping the genre can be resurrected. So I really hope they manage to hit the best case scenario in crowd funding.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Luis Dias on October 17, 2012, 08:55:05 am
903k @ the moment. 7 days. They could hit 3 million by this rate.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: newman on October 17, 2012, 09:31:10 am
They could - though that number will probably rise more slowly the more time has gone by. Still, some people might decide to upgrade their pledge once it's over the $2 million mark. Hoping for the best.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: JCDNWarrior on October 17, 2012, 09:45:13 am

This is, among other things, a test to see how wrong the general concensus of the gaming industry about space sims not being profitable really is. So to me the decision whether to pledge some cash or not isn't just about wanting to play that game, it's really about hoping the genre can be resurrected. So I really hope they manage to hit the best case scenario in crowd funding.

I fully agree with you, that's also what I was trying to convey when I said that it would benefit us at HLP as well. Hope everyone can spread their influence around a little and inform other people they know to pledge, even if it's just the 10 dollar one as it counts as another 'Fan' of the space sim genre.

The idea is that Chris Roberts' team can use the higher numbers of fans and the money raised as leverage to convince their big investor(s) to invest the funds and trust necessary to make the game - the higher the pledge total the more RSI might receive as an investment.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Spoon on October 17, 2012, 04:31:09 pm
Pledged me 24 euro just now.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Dark RevenantX on October 17, 2012, 09:29:40 pm
Keep in mind it won't even be an MMO right away.  Their timeline puts it at 12 months before they release the multiplayer alpha and 18 months before the campaign is released.  It'll be around 30 months before the MMO portion is finalized.

The numbers may be off but the single player stuff definitely comes between the multiplayer alpha testing and the final release.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: newman on October 18, 2012, 04:59:42 am
It's not supposed to be a MMO, more of a single player with some MMO elements - meaning you'll be able to have friends join you as wingmen in some missions, possibly trade with them, etc. I don't think they were aiming for a full MMO experience. At least I hope they weren't.

As I feared, the collected money figure is starting to increase at a slower rate. There's also only about 10,000 space sim fans that actually pledged, which isn't a number that's going to convince the suits they were wrong, when they can sell something like Modern Warfare 3 in 1.5 million copies on the first night it's out. The fact the collected money is close to $1 million is more of a testament to the hardcore nature of space sim fans who are, in a large part, willing to donate quite a bit of money to play what Roberts is promising. But I'm afraid 10,000 gamers isn't a figure that proves us right. Since they have well over three weeks of crowd funding left, they should start exploring every venue of marketing to bring in more people. And do something about that.. erm.. "oldshool" (trying to find a polite way of saying it) website.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Colonol Dekker on October 18, 2012, 07:22:19 am
On the video, they mentioned "what we call a 'combat instance'". Now to me, that feels a lot like the sort of one-off combat mission thing that would happen between a massive map/inventory based front end interface. :shaking:
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: headdie on October 18, 2012, 07:26:41 am
my interpretation of the presentation stream is that the combat instance only applies to the MMO side to help with managing who is involved in a combat and stuff like processor loads as he describes it as two ships (I am presuming player) crossing paths in the game and shooting starts between them.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Deathsnake on October 19, 2012, 02:40:18 am
*Update* Already hits the first Million. Now you can pledge on Kickstarter too. Already over 110.000 $ there. Now you can count that together :D

http://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/
+
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen
=

1.175.000 atm - and raising...
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Colonol Dekker on October 19, 2012, 03:46:21 am
my interpretation of the presentation stream is that the combat instance only applies to the MMO side to help with managing who is involved in a combat and stuff like processor loads as he describes it as two ships (I am presuming player) crossing paths in the game and shooting starts between them.


I hope so,  I just don't want it to be all 2D with teeny tiny Mace Griffon scale space engagements interwoven.

*Update* Already hits the first Million. Now you can pledge on Kickstarter too. Already over 110.000 $ there. Now you can count that together :D

http://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/
+
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen
=

1.175.000 atm - and raising...



I'm sorely tempted, mah golden ticket is nice, but If i can wangle some extra pimp for my ride......
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Luis Dias on October 19, 2012, 09:44:30 am
The money count in the kickstarter page is just rising up in real time.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: newman on October 19, 2012, 11:12:29 am
Not sure why they only set the goal at kickstarter at $500k - at the rate that figure is climbing it may very well end up being more profitable than the crowdfunding thing they got set up on their site.

edit: now I see why, if kickstarter goal isn't met they don't get the money. Makes sense now :)
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Spoon on October 19, 2012, 11:15:04 am
Kind of a interesting difference
Kickstarter: 4,019 backers $166,665
Offical site: 12,201 backers $1,085,483
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Luis Dias on October 19, 2012, 11:19:26 am
And yet, they will probably be having more money channeled through kickstarter.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: newman on October 20, 2012, 10:12:41 am
Kickstarter was a good move. Already over a quarter of a million after the first day. But it also got over 6000 pledgers, which is like half of what their native crowdfunding effort managed in over a week. It probably has a lot to do with the fact you can pledge as much as you want on kickstarter, even if it's just 1$, so more people are willing to pledge at least something. Plus people probably feel more comfortable with an established service like that.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Deathsnake on October 22, 2012, 08:02:16 am
Very close to 1,7 Million. With shortly 3 Weeks on RSI or 4 Weeks on Kickstarter left ;)
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Spoon on October 22, 2012, 09:02:21 am
Yeah this is going the right way!
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Starman01 on October 22, 2012, 09:08:19 am
Stupid question, but I might also ask it here since quite some interest is in existence !   

I would also like to pledge this game, but I'm getting a bit cautious about a few things these day.

On the "Pledge site", there is a button "Refund if project goal is not met". And when I translate it correct, and check it, I no longer can choose Paypal as payment option, which is bad, because I do not own a credit card (which also prevents me supporting products on kickstarter) and I do not really intend to get myself on.

So, how do I have to understand this sentence ? For me, it's translating like this : " When we do not reach our 2 million goal, you get your money back".

So, does that mean when I choose paypal and not click the box (because I can't for paypal), I'm paying, AND IF THEY DO NOT REACH THEIR GOAL, then what ? They keep the earned money, say thanks to all, do not produce anything and find some good use for the money instead (B&B ? Booze and Boobs ? ).

Don't get me wrong, I have high fate in Chris Roberts. But I'm not sure what will happen to my 60$ when I cannot click the box for paypal :(

Can someone here give me an inside ?
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Dragon on October 22, 2012, 10:05:35 am
At this point, it's likely it'd get used to fund the project anyway, with a more limited scope. Also, nothing stops you from mailing to Chris Roberts about it. I've replied to one of his e-mails and got a response from Ben Lesnick, there are real people sending those messages and responding to them.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Starman01 on October 22, 2012, 10:52:16 am
Quote
there are real people

It's exactly these people I'm a bit worried about, the mentioned one in particular
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Scourge of Ages on October 22, 2012, 11:06:29 am
On the "Pledge site", there is a button "Refund if project goal is not met". And when I translate it correct, and check it, I no longer can choose Paypal as payment option, which is bad, because I do not own a credit card (which also prevents me supporting products on kickstarter) and I do not really intend to get myself on.

You translate that correct, that's exactly what it means.

As for the Paypal thing: Amazon Payments can put a hold on the funds on your credit card without actually charging it until the thing succeeds (or order is shipped). I guess that Paypal can't, so when you pledge with Paypal the money comes out right away and to give it back they'd need to do a refund, which I guess is kind of hard or expensive?

But it'll probably succeed anyway, so I don't think it'll be a problem.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Starman01 on October 22, 2012, 11:54:40 am
Quote
I guess that Paypal can't, so when you pledge with Paypal the money comes out right away

Possible. However, that's exactly what the first Nexus2 Crowdfunding did. I donated, but the money should only be taken when the goal is met. It worked then... Maybe Paypal doesn't offer that feature anymore.

I have to think about it. Guess I will still donate, though with a bit of a bad taste in the mouth...
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Topgun on October 22, 2012, 01:27:37 pm
Stupid question, but I might also ask it here since quite some interest is in existence !   

I would also like to pledge this game, but I'm getting a bit cautious about a few things these day.

On the "Pledge site", there is a button "Refund if project goal is not met". And when I translate it correct, and check it, I no longer can choose Paypal as payment option, which is bad, because I do not own a credit card (which also prevents me supporting products on kickstarter) and I do not really intend to get myself on.

So, how do I have to understand this sentence ? For me, it's translating like this : " When we do not reach our 2 million goal, you get your money back".

So, does that mean when I choose paypal and not click the box (because I can't for paypal), I'm paying, AND IF THEY DO NOT REACH THEIR GOAL, then what ? They keep the earned money, say thanks to all, do not produce anything and find some good use for the money instead (B&B ? Booze and Boobs ? ).

Don't get me wrong, I have high fate in Chris Roberts. But I'm not sure what will happen to my 60$ when I cannot click the box for paypal :(

Can someone here give me an inside ?


if the goal isn't meant the game will still get made, but at a reduced level
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: newman on October 22, 2012, 04:22:31 pm
if the goal isn't meant the game will still get made, but at a reduced level

Not exactly, there are several goals. The minimum one is $2 million - if they don't reach that I don't think the game is getting made at all. Every goal above that adds to the amount of things they're promising to do. However, at the current rate there's little chance they won't meet the minimum goal so it's all a bit academic :)
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Luis Dias on October 22, 2012, 05:03:20 pm
At this rate, they will reach 10 million.

Not that a proper game of this scale doesn't cost 5 times that.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Vip on October 22, 2012, 06:00:14 pm
I'm still baffled on how they can create such an amazing game (the graphics, exploring the ship, etc) with merely 2 million bucks... Nevertheless, I did my job and pledged $30 on Kickstarter - what kind of space-sim fan would I have to be to miss a chance of reviving my beloved genre? :P
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Dark RevenantX on October 22, 2012, 06:11:39 pm
It was explained that they have a large sum of money in stock, and that the fundraising is meant to bolster the amount they raised privately.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: JGZinv on October 23, 2012, 10:18:57 am
I did my part... 1 constellation and mini fighter coming up with electro plating.

"Admiral Zinv" doesn't sound too bad after all.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: newman on October 25, 2012, 12:20:03 pm
..and they're now officially over the $2 million mark (their own crowdfunding + kickstarter).
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Colonol Dekker on October 25, 2012, 12:48:37 pm
Wonderful!

I expect Confed to conquer all known aggressors now.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: manwiththemachinegun on October 26, 2012, 08:16:37 pm
Woah, massive amount of pessimism here. Can't believe how many, "lol good graphics =/ good game" and "Wing Commander sux" comments I'm seeing. Seems a tad pedantic.

At the least, another Chris Roberts game is going to be a fun experience on par with his previous ones. At least he's setting his goals high. It may not be the ULTIMATE space game, but it is a professional, big budget NEW space sim in what is essentially a dead genre. I would have thought people would be more excited at that prospect.

Look at the success of X-COM UFO, a successful Star Citizen could mean developers taking another look at the sim genre.

I'm not expecting folks to leap up and down like an idiot, but a little more optimism at this point may be appropriate.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Rodo on October 26, 2012, 08:50:26 pm
I don't think the majority of the post in this thread are... pessimistic, as you say, all the contrary my friend.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: NGTM-1R on October 26, 2012, 11:42:34 pm
Man is reading...some other thread.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: manwiththemachinegun on October 27, 2012, 05:22:28 pm
Actually pages 3 and 4, but it's not a big deal.

In any case, I'm just excited we're getting another big budget space sim.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Rodo on November 04, 2012, 08:23:23 pm
My god, they are drowning in money!
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: newman on November 05, 2012, 04:07:34 am
Not exactly drowning, but they are well over the minimum goal and on their way to meet at least some of the stretch goals. At this rate I'd estimate they'll get in the vicinity of about $4 million. What bothers me a bit is their tendency to change the aforementioned "stretch goals". There used to be mention of an online ship marketplace, even talk about modders being able to offer their additional ships for sale there. That seems to be gone from the current goals - the $3 million goal now includes the main campaign, Privateer like gameplay, nice stuff like that. Then the $3.5 million goal now states only - "amazing cockpit decorations - think dinosaurs, bobbleheads, etc".

$500,000 to model and texture a few toy models? I'd LOVE to work for that price. Hell I'll do it for $400k :)
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: starbug on November 05, 2012, 04:29:06 am
I have heard that this new game is just going to be an MMO according to a few gaming sites such as PC Gamer, is that true? ( i hope it isnt i miss a good singleplayer space sim)
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: newman on November 05, 2012, 04:34:02 am
If you check on their site, you'll see it isn't true. There'll be a single player campaign called "Squadron 42", and once you've finished it you'll have privateer like gameplay, which from what I gather will play something like the original Privateer with added MMO elements.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: The E on November 05, 2012, 05:38:42 am
While the single-player element seems very Wing Commanderish, the best analogue I could come up with for the proposed multiplayer is "X with other players and less bull****"
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Rodo on November 05, 2012, 07:54:22 am
Yeah, the stretch goals are like not planned through enough.
That thing about amazing cockpit stuff seems like just fill up ****, a tactic to "move" the real sweet stuff a little far up and get more money for it (read: modding tools).

Still, they managed to make it so I'm happy to see the space sim genre back alive.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Turambar on November 05, 2012, 08:27:12 am
How awesome would it be to have a little private HLP run Freespace modded universe in this game?
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Colonol Dekker on November 05, 2012, 08:33:17 am
I'm calling shotgun on captianof the Carrier :yes:
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: The E on November 05, 2012, 08:33:43 am
The answer would be "very."
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: JGZinv on November 05, 2012, 09:33:37 am
Well they do have a print and digital version of a modder's engineering manual... which already reserved a copy of that.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Commander Zane on November 19, 2012, 11:37:53 am
Last 90 minutes of the campaign and over six million in pledges; live stream's been going on all day at the site.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: MR_T3D on November 19, 2012, 12:21:57 pm
IT'S HAPPENING

SO

DAMN

HAPPY
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Rodo on November 19, 2012, 12:48:51 pm
The site taking forever to respond, I bet it's getting hammered by the amount of ppl trying to see what happened.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: MR_T3D on November 19, 2012, 01:24:51 pm
Yeah, I think I'll give the site a few days off, the last minute rush was quite something.

6,122,000 is what I saw last for what they raised, quite impressive
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: MatthTheGeek on November 19, 2012, 02:15:20 pm
$6,237,583 , to be more precise.

I've pledged 110$ in this thing. If it can resurrect the space shooter genre by giving us a long SP experience and a fun multiplayer (and one where piloting skill actually matters), I'm all for it. Plus, modding.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Dragon on November 19, 2012, 03:27:59 pm
Me and my father gave 70$ in total. Now we're looking forward to the updates.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Black_Yoshi1230 on November 19, 2012, 07:10:17 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GHX8dvuFUQ

This explains my reaction to the end result of the funding drive. I only donated 10 bucks, and said to one of my family members "I'm helping fund a program for digital aerospace observation and combat exploration."
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Dragon on November 19, 2012, 08:51:50 pm
Reminds me of the time my father got around a ban on joysticks on his university by buying a "computer manipulator". :)
Also, did anybody see if they got to 6 million mark before it the funding drive ended? The site is now down for maintenance.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Commander Zane on November 19, 2012, 08:55:01 pm
They had a little over 90 minutes to spare when they reached six million, and the site's loading for me right now.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Dragon on November 19, 2012, 09:00:25 pm
I imagine the site was bogged down a bit near the end of crowdfunding effort. It indeed seems to be back now.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: TrashMan on November 20, 2012, 03:07:07 am
6,250000

Yep, they made it. And how. The most sucesfull kickstarter in history.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Scourge of Ages on November 20, 2012, 03:20:33 am
6,250000

Yep, they made it. And how. The most sucesfull kickstarter in history.

I hate to be pedantic... No, that's a lie. I love to be pedantic!

Project Eternity is the most successful Kickstarter (as far as I know), at just shy of 4 million. Star Citizen holds the crowdfunded game record. Only 2.1M of that 6.3+M was actually made on Kickstarter.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Deathsnake on November 20, 2012, 03:34:05 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyyxCi7RiU0
:) Remember New Detroit from Privateer? ^^
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: TrashMan on November 20, 2012, 11:57:42 am
How many of you guys have the Golden Ticket?
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Commander Zane on November 20, 2012, 12:10:26 pm
Like since the beginning or after the site crashes in the past messed with them? I've still got mine.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: headdie on November 20, 2012, 12:17:05 pm
I still have mine
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Patriot on November 20, 2012, 12:46:48 pm
same here, got mine
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Dragon on November 20, 2012, 02:13:32 pm
So do I. My father seems to have lost his though.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: JGZinv on November 21, 2012, 12:13:48 am
I have one, a 300i acct, and a Constellation acct, and a modders manual.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: TrashMan on November 21, 2012, 02:45:59 am
I invite you to join Goldwing squadron then.
All gold Ticket holders.
We got tons of ships and apaprently skilled modelers to make new stuff.

Unfortuantley, the main forums are down, but you can pop in here:
http://starcitizen.rolanddynamics.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewforum&f=6

You also get a snazzy singanture banner like mine.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img13/8225/goldwingbanner.png)
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: MatthTheGeek on November 21, 2012, 05:18:02 am
I won't join anything which isn't a HLP squadron. Go away.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Deathsnake on November 21, 2012, 05:24:33 am
Come to the Dark Side ^^ We have Cookies :D
(http://www.xenocorp.net/H_bardCorner/StarCitizen/GoldWing_SigDeathsnake.jpg)
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: TrashMan on November 21, 2012, 06:36:52 am
I won't join anything which isn't a HLP squadron. Go away.

Your adherence to that ancient group is your weakness.
HLP is fractured and weak.
Come and witness true power.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Commander Zane on November 21, 2012, 06:43:14 am
Looks like I know which groups to stay away from during the combat Alpha. Don't want to run into the crossfire. :P
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: The E on November 21, 2012, 06:47:21 am
Quote
Your adherence to that ancient group is your weakness.

Your belief in the strength of your followers is yours.

Quote
HLP is fractured and weak.

We prefer the term technoanarchist collective. We have no rulers. We have no subjects.

Quote
Come and witness true power.

No.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: BritishShivans on November 21, 2012, 06:58:08 am
I've got 'em tagged, 'suh.

Permission to initiate orbital strike?
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: TrashMan on November 21, 2012, 07:38:27 am
Quote
Your adherence to that ancient group is your weakness.

Your belief in the strength of your followers is yours.

I believe in concrete things.
Like a dozen Constellations with lifetime ensurance and tons and tons of Hornets.
Also numbers.

Quote
We prefer the term technoanarchist collective. We have no rulers. We have no subjects.

There's always rulers. You live in denial.


*****

Speaking seriously. The group seems nice and organized.
As for a HLP squadron - I don't think there is one officialy yet to join.

Either way I doubt I would be joining it if there is one... but that might depend on who is leading it.
My past experiences with some of the usual suspects have left a somewhat sour taste.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Luis Dias on November 21, 2012, 08:38:43 am
..... aaaaand the hipsters just ruined everything. Again.

Looking forward to the "I've been hating Star Citizen before it was cool" turnaround.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: MatthTheGeek on November 21, 2012, 09:42:19 am
As for a HLP squadron - I don't think there is one officially yet to join.
You do realize there'll be nothing to play for a full year, right ? Those that are forming squadrons now will probably die from the inside long before the alpha as people gradually loose interest.

Either way I doubt I would be joining it if there is one... but that might depend on who is leading it.
Don't worry, we won't miss you.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: TrashMan on November 21, 2012, 10:08:34 am
Quote
You do realize there'll be nothing to play for a full year, right ? Those that are forming squadrons now will probably die from the inside long before the alpha as people gradually loose interest.

Well, plenty of squadrons form early.
Since I have the modders manual and more support was said ot coem soon, peopel have already begin modding/moddeling groups.

So basicly we just chat about everytihng (mostly SC related), make future plans and share designs and ideas.


Don't worry, we won't miss you.

You will.
I'm a VERY good dodger.

Which is why I prefer AoE and high RoF weapons.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Rodo on November 21, 2012, 01:02:09 pm
I'll join any HLP squadron that gets assembled there.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Dragon on November 21, 2012, 02:04:07 pm
Don't worry, we won't miss you.

You will.
I'm a VERY good dodger.
Wanna bet? :) I I'll have anything resembling free time when Star Citizen comes out, though-talking isn't gonna save you. :)
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: TrashMan on November 21, 2012, 02:30:07 pm
I don't count on tough-talking to save me, but decisive action  :pimp:

Well, that, and lots of firepower. :drevil:
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Hades on November 21, 2012, 06:03:12 pm
Dodging is one of the easily skills to develop in a game like this, it's just bobbing and weaving in differing directions to throw one's aim off.

Now dodging while at the same time killing people with high efficiency while being shot at, that's something else entirely.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: JGZinv on November 21, 2012, 08:27:00 pm
Try a 6-7 person FFA and be the guy everyone wants to pop and let us know how that goes.

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/295855_10150257596137946_3654131_n.jpg (http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/295855_10150257596137946_3654131_n.jpg)
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/486935_10151109173677946_1878534775_n.jpg (http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/486935_10151109173677946_1878534775_n.jpg)
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/305986_10150671235887946_2096615735_n.jpg (http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/305986_10150671235887946_2096615735_n.jpg)
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/540282_10150671234487946_1279208420_n.jpg (http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/540282_10150671234487946_1279208420_n.jpg)
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/295162_10150671234252946_349377600_n.jpg (http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/295162_10150671234252946_349377600_n.jpg)
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/374862_10150412221747946_1943752002_n.jpg (http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/374862_10150412221747946_1943752002_n.jpg)
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/305230_10150273726547946_2964748_n.jpg (http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/305230_10150273726547946_2964748_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: SpardaSon21 on November 21, 2012, 11:07:19 pm
Spoon's expressed (slight) interest in modding Star Citizen, so I'm holding out hope for a Wings of Dawn server happening.  Oh, and I'll probably fly around and kill pirates for bounties and salvage until that happens.  I'll be happy to join a HLP squadron though, assuming you guys can deal with me being equipped with the starter crapmobile these games love to have.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: NGTM-1R on November 21, 2012, 11:34:21 pm
Spoon's expressed (slight) interest in modding Star Citizen, so I'm holding out hope for a Wings of Dawn server happening.  Oh, and I'll probably fly around and kill pirates for bounties and salvage until that happens.  I'll be happy to join a HLP squadron though, assuming you guys can deal with me being equipped with the starter crapmobile these games love to have.

We can starter crapmobile together.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: z64555 on November 22, 2012, 12:40:56 am
Dodging is one of the easily skills to develop in a game like this, it's just bobbing and weaving in differing directions to throw one's aim off.

Now dodging while at the same time killing people with high efficiency while being shot at, that's something else entirely.

I find space combat much more fun when there's stuff to hide behind vs. open space. :nervous:
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: SpardaSon21 on November 22, 2012, 12:48:34 am
Bad, bad z64555.  Cover mechanics are already overused in FPS games.  We do not want them in space.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: z64555 on November 22, 2012, 01:11:03 am
Bad, bad z64555.  Cover mechanics are already overused in FPS games.  We do not want them in space.

You mean to say you don't want the AI/other players to ambush you behind asteroids, installations, or big ships? :P
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: MatthTheGeek on November 22, 2012, 03:01:07 am
Bad, bad z64555.  Cover mechanics are already overused in FPS games.  We do not want them in space.
Gears Of Space
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Colonol Dekker on November 22, 2012, 03:52:23 am
I'd join an HLP sqaudron, but only if the LOA aren't already re-forming for this.
Otherwise...................... :cool: :nod:
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: TrashMan on November 22, 2012, 03:55:10 am
Space of War.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Alex Heartnet on November 22, 2012, 05:31:51 am
The folks over at GOG  published an interview with Chris Roberts (http://www.gog.com/news/ask_developer_a_question_chris_roberts) a few days back, if any of you missed it.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: TrashMan on November 23, 2012, 05:18:43 pm
Interesting tidbit - the GoldWing squadron has 149 ships at this point... and a very, very special member :)
Also, the squadron will later be unlocked for everyone.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Commander Zane on November 23, 2012, 05:29:38 pm
I saw you in one of the threads I was watching. :P
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: MR_T3D on November 26, 2012, 02:03:52 pm
Big groups are an EvE thing as far as I'm concerned.

Much rather just fly with a couple buddies, raid some ships, save some others, and deliver some cargo to rebuy that big ship I lost
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Patriot on November 27, 2012, 08:59:58 am
Sounds a bit like something from EVE there Ted xD

Id join an HLP squad in a heartbeat
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Rodo on November 28, 2012, 08:23:02 am
*rodo browsing the RSI site

hey what's this?

(http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/2384/fs2player.jpg)

*clicks on link "fs2 player".

mmm... seems some kind of custom search between the registered users, sadly I'm the only one appearing in that search... what is this sorcery??? no FS fans on this damned site?

*changes search to FS2

(http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/7156/fs2players.jpg)

Now that's sad... only 5 members, from which only 4 are really related to FS2.

what the hell HLP? what the hell! no more love for FS2?

[edit: ahh I feel better, freespace yields more results :D]
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: TrashMan on November 29, 2012, 01:43:30 am
I think most of us don't put FS player in the Bio.... try searching for modder and oyu might find me :P
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: MatthTheGeek on November 29, 2012, 03:54:54 am
My bio is "derp.". Because can't be arsed.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: An4ximandros on June 22, 2013, 10:06:01 am
 New video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JrQ0qMRZ_1Q

 That engine is amazing.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: General Battuta on June 22, 2013, 01:10:55 pm
God, I wish there were even one slightly compelling thing about this game's creative design. I can't complain about the publicity it's drawing or (probably) its gameplay and systems, but I don't think Roberts has ever made a product that said anything interesting or challenging about...anything. Someone offer me some hope here
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Dragon on June 22, 2013, 01:24:29 pm
Not every story has to tell something completely new. Old stories told in a new way, or sometimes just old stories told well, can also be a great experience. Yes, we probably seen it all by the time WCP rolled about. And we want to see it again. Star Citizen is something of a callback to space games of old, and as such, I don't think it needs anything "new".
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: General Battuta on June 22, 2013, 01:31:22 pm
There were space games of old that weren't utterly vapid in their story and art design.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: JGZinv on June 22, 2013, 01:33:11 pm
Oh I dunno, a current gen engine with mod support from day one, custom community servers, leadership with an established track record of making quality titles,
a 200K strong playerbase, Devs paying attention to the community....

Need I go on?
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: General Battuta on June 22, 2013, 01:35:37 pm
Those things are all fantastic, but also explicitly separate from what I'm talking about.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: The E on June 22, 2013, 01:43:03 pm
Not every story has to tell something completely new. Old stories told in a new way, or sometimes just old stories told well, can also be a great experience. Yes, we probably seen it all by the time WCP rolled about. And we want to see it again. Star Citizen is something of a callback to space games of old, and as such, I don't think it needs anything "new".

Dear Dragon, games with a story that only works on the very superficial level do not have any kind of staying power. We do not remember Wing Commander for its great characterization, or the way it discussed war and the people in it, we remember it for its gameplay and production values.

Now, for most games, this is enough.

But.

Games can, and should be so much more. I'm not saying that every game needs to be a Spec Ops: The Line style deconstruction of tropes and stories, but there should be at least something more substantial there, some sort of actual exploration of what it would mean to be a human in the world they've built in the game.
FreeSpace 2 is a wonderful example of a very simple narrative that holds up to very intense scrutiny that actually works on more levels than just "glue to string together gameplay".

Star Citizen is a very ambitious project from a technical and business standpoint, but it's playing it very safe (one might even call it boring) in terms of what we've seen from the story, and that is ****ing disappointing, especially given the things we know gaming is capable of.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: An4ximandros on June 22, 2013, 01:44:03 pm
 I guess you could look at it from an industry standpoint: This game is Space Sims made modern. With tons of brown and desaturated colour. :p

 I see the game as more of a platform through which people can come up with mods that break the mold. Thus, why we need Battuta's wandering star to grace this hunk of resource.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: MatthTheGeek on June 22, 2013, 01:44:19 pm
Someone offer me some hope here
Modding.

What do you expect from this game that we couldn't mod in ?

Star Citizen is a very ambitious project from a technical and business standpoint, but it's playing it very safe (one might even call it boring) in terms of what we've seen from the story, and that is ****ing disappointing, especially given the things we know gaming is capable of.
What is in this sentence that we can't mod in ?
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Dragon on June 22, 2013, 02:23:56 pm
Dear Dragon, games with a story that only works on the very superficial level do not have any kind of staying power. We do not remember Wing Commander for its great characterization, or the way it discussed war and the people in it, we remember it for its gameplay and production values.
I disagree. I found characters in Wing Commander, especially in 3 and 4, to be very good. Sure, there wasn't much philosophy in there (though WC4 had a few moments), those were mostly WWII stories in space. But they were well told, with good characters and a very immersive environment. Even if the story itself wasn't too good, the presentation was great. FS2 might've had good story, but TBH, it didn't tell it that well, being nearly devoid of characters and nearly everything not related to actual missions. Cutscenes were extremely detached from the actual player "character" (contrast WC3, where in nearly every case, you only saw what your character did). Those little, background things do matter, they create an immerisve environment that makes it possible to enjoy even a medicore story. FS2 is pretty lifeless and hard to immerse in (notice, all the best mods added plenty of worldbuilding and background), unlike Wing Commander, for example.

Now, the greatest of the great, of course, have both a great world and a great story in it, but in a game like Star Citizen, the world is IMHO more important. It's an MMO, which will span a massive universe. The "main campaign" will not be the only story told, so the game should focus on developing a world people would enjoy being in, characters people would enjoy interacting with. Considering the immense scale of Star Citizen, I believe there will be a lot of stories told in this universe. Their quality may vary, but the game itself will have to stand on the world it's creating, not on any single story. Spec Ops: The Line was great, but I finished it and put it away (will probably replay someday, if I dare :) ). It didn't create a world (not that it had to, I'm not criticizing it here) and thus there aren't really more stories to be told there. Star Citizen can't afford that if it wants to "live" like Roberts wants it to.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: General Battuta on June 22, 2013, 02:43:11 pm
Everything in FreeSpace 2, even the interface art style, is built to further the story. It's a game with incredible ludonarrative harmony. It is intentionally lifeless and purposefully impersonal, and that's why it succeeds so incredibly at its worldbuilding, why it comes to life and enables immersion in a way Wing Commander can't.

If Star Citizen offers a lot of EVE-style player interaction then fortunately the relative lack of narrative ambition won't matter!
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: MatthTheGeek on June 22, 2013, 02:47:50 pm
It's an MMO, which will span a massive universe. The "main campaign" will not be the only story told
Wrong.

The initial release of SC will actually be a 50-ish SP campaign with no other MP element than coop. The open-world part is expected 6 months after that and while it is probably what will keep the game alive for the years following the release, I doubt anyone who cares about the game thinks for a second that the SP is a minor aspect of the game.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: iVoid on June 22, 2013, 02:49:44 pm
New video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JrQ0qMRZ_1Q

 That engine is amazing.
*drools*
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Dragon on June 22, 2013, 03:40:07 pm
It's an MMO, which will span a massive universe. The "main campaign" will not be the only story told
Wrong.

The initial release of SC will actually be a 50-ish SP campaign with no other MP element than coop. The open-world part is expected 6 months after that and while it is probably what will keep the game alive for the years following the release, I doubt anyone who cares about the game thinks for a second that the SP is a minor aspect of the game.
Nope, it's not "wrong" as you phrased it. In fact, you repeated what I said later in your post. What I said and you quoted is 100% correct. Note, I never said it'd be a minor aspect of the game, I merely said it'd not be the only one. Yes, it's important (nobody said it isn't), but it doesn't make up the entirety of the game. Granted, it will be the first part we'll get to experience, but there will be far more to Star Citizen than that.
Everything in FreeSpace 2, even the interface art style, is built to further the story. It's a game with incredible ludonarrative harmony. It is intentionally lifeless and purposefully impersonal, and that's why it succeeds so incredibly at its worldbuilding, why it comes to life and enables immersion in a way Wing Commander can't.
Actually, I find FS2's minimalism and utilitarism very immerision-breaking. The real world isn't designed to serve a single story, unlike FS2's world. By being devoid of everything else, the world created by FS2 seems simply incomplete. There's just too little said about it, too little of irrelevant info and background explanations. It does tell it's story rather efficiently, and opens itself up to mods filling in the missing background, but taken by itself, it's seriously lacking. It just doesn't feel right to exist in this kind of dull, lifeless, streamlined to a fault universe. In Wing Commander, you feel like you have real people around you, while in FS, you're clearly flying with AIs.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Rodo on June 22, 2013, 03:41:25 pm
You could feel better knowing the enemy race is based on the Vasudans.
Well, only the feet actually, but that's good enough right?
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: General Battuta on June 22, 2013, 04:24:51 pm
Actually, I find FS2's minimalism and utilitarism very immerision-breaking. The real world isn't designed to serve a single story, unlike FS2's world. By being devoid of everything else, the world created by FS2 seems simply incomplete. There's just too little said about it, too little of irrelevant info and background explanations. It does tell it's story rather efficiently, and opens itself up to mods filling in the missing background, but taken by itself, it's seriously lacking. It just doesn't feel right to exist in this kind of dull, lifeless, streamlined to a fault universe. In Wing Commander, you feel like you have real people around you, while in FS, you're clearly flying with AIs.

I guess we'll just have to disagree on this point. Wing Commander has always seemed so transparent in its inspiration that it's impossible to believe in it as a fictional world. It reads like a pastiche, a slightly stuffy fan letter to everything that inspired it rather than a real place.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Mikes on June 23, 2013, 10:41:52 am
I guess we'll just have to disagree on this point. Wing Commander has always seemed so transparent in its inspiration that it's impossible to believe in it as a fictional world. It reads like a pastiche, a slightly stuffy fan letter to everything that inspired it rather than a real place.

Mh, Wing Commander:

The first one didn't really have much story to speak of.
The second one needs to be commended to be one of the first games to have a cinematic story at all.
The 3rd one I would wholeheartedly agree with you ...
... not sure about the 4th one. I would say I disagree there, but it's really been to long since I played it and I was much younger back then. ;)
Well and the 5th one was  steaming pile of poo by all respects.

Which one are you referring to? ;)
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Dragon on June 23, 2013, 11:18:04 am
He's obviously talking about WC3, which is what people mostly think of when you say "Wing Commander". I was actually thinking of WC4 when I posted, so we might've been talking about two very different games all this time. :) WC3 is a rather light-hearted, affectionate tribute to WWII Pacific Theater. While it also had great characters, the story didn't even try to hide it's inspirations. As such, it shouldn't be taken too seriously. WC4 is where the series really shines, and takes a darker turn. WC2 also had this, but it shows it's age somewhat.
As for WC1 and WCP, well, the former didn't really had an  overarching story (though it's characters were good, and there was a lot of interaction for the time), while the latter was still quite fun, but rather sub-par. I didn't care for any of Midway's pilots nearly as much as I did for those from Victory or Intrepid. Even Maniac wasn't half as funny as he used to be, not to mention a lot of interaction was simply gone. I might be wrong, but I don't remember a single cutscene in WCP where you actually had a choice what to say.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: NGTM-1R on June 23, 2013, 11:23:23 am
WC3 is a rather light-hearted, affectionate tribute to WWII Pacific Theater.

You know I'm trying to see that, but unless humanity is Japanese I don't think so, and we didn't have Japanese character in this franchise since Spirit gave her death haiku.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Mikes on June 23, 2013, 11:43:39 am
As for WC1 and WCP, well, the former didn't really had an  overarching story (though it's characters were good, and there was a lot of interaction for the time), while the latter was still quite fun, but rather sub-par. I didn't care for any of Midway's pilots nearly as much as I did for those from Victory or Intrepid. Even Maniac wasn't half as funny as he used to be, not to mention a lot of interaction was simply gone. I might be wrong, but I don't remember a single cutscene in WCP where you actually had a choice what to say.

There was. Amongst them the famous choice of whether to kiss the blonde or the brunette lol ...  good old Wing Commander :p
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Dragon on June 23, 2013, 11:53:08 am
Now I do recall something like that, but WCP was rather unmemorable compared to the rest of the series, so I don't remember. Still, the choices were fewer and didn't really affect the game like they did with WC3 and 4.
You know I'm trying to see that, but unless humanity is Japanese I don't think so, and we didn't have Japanese character in this franchise since Spirit gave her death haiku.
You don't see that? Then you're either blind or didn't play the game. There's just about everything in there. Carrier battlegroups? Check. Covert warfare using undetectable ships? Check. A huge enemy battleship? Check. Enemy big about honor and combat? Check. An evil, exotic, militaristic empire? Check. A fleet crushed in a big surprise attack, leaving only a few dogged carriers? Check. Good guys flying about in Thunderbolts and Hellcats? Check. Big, war ending bomb? Check. I could go on like that for a while. In WC3, Confed - US and Kilrathi - Imperial Japan, and it's as clear as day. There are a few elements that are more SW than WWII (Behemoth, Trench Run), but in general, the story could very well be set in WWII and it would've worked just as well (though it'd be a shallow, US-centric version of it).
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: NGTM-1R on June 23, 2013, 01:44:44 pm
You don't see that? Then you're either blind or didn't play the game. There's just about everything in there. Carrier battlegroups? Check. Covert warfare using undetectable ships? Check. A huge enemy battleship? Check. Enemy big about honor and combat? Check. An evil, exotic, militaristic empire? Check. A fleet crushed in a big surprise attack, leaving only a few dogged carriers? Check. Good guys flying about in Thunderbolts and Hellcats? Check. Big, war ending bomb? Check. I could go on like that for a while.

Yes, you could, and you'd be wrong, because the actual dynamics of the war are not the ones being portrayed in WC3. The Confederation is losing the war. They're facing economic and military collapse in the very near future, which is why they've gone for the superweapons route. The entire game is about the Confederation's last gasp, and the end sequence is portrayed as the only possible shot of a people on the edge of defeat.

You've latched on to the most superficial possible answer. (And also missed Battuta's point since I'm pretty sure Batts was about to beat you over the head with the Man-Kzin Wars books.)

You want a proper World War 2 homage, go watch MS Gundam. You want a proper Pacific Front homage, I recommend Exo Squad.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: headdie on June 23, 2013, 02:21:02 pm
yup and for a significant time after pearl harbour the american navy was battered, bruised and retreating.

and the nukes were used as a desperate attempt to not have to invade the mainland as the US at the time believed it would be Operation overlord again but with much higher percentage of US/Allied casulties

I would go as far as to say that the only significant difference between WWII and the setting of WC3 is the economic condition of the confederation.

As such I have to agree that there are more parallels than not
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: NGTM-1R on June 23, 2013, 02:53:26 pm
yup and for a significant time after pearl harbour the american navy was battered, bruised and retreating.

And then they won the war in that condition. Nope.

and the nukes were used as a desperate attempt to not have to invade the mainland as the US at the time believed it would be Operation overlord again but with much higher percentage of US/Allied casulties

That's not a parallel.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Gray113 on June 23, 2013, 03:09:12 pm
Confed is losing against a far better, well equipped enemy and stands alone which was more similar to Japan, not the USA. The use of the temblor bomb was their last throw of the dice the failure of which would doom humanity. To compare the USA forces were well equipped, technologically superior and had support from other nations that were diverting their forces from conquered Germany. The reason that the US used the atom bomb was to force the surrender of Japan before the USSR had the chance to launch their own invasion of the Japanese home islands. To be honest I don't see any similarities between WC3 and the Pacific theatre.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Dragon on June 23, 2013, 03:13:14 pm
Well, I said that WC3 is a tribute to stories about USN carrier pilots in the Pacific Theater. It's not a historically accurate adaptation of WWII into space setting. It does gloss over many events (there isn't a Midway-style turning point battle, for instance), and references the entire scope of the war (Pearl Harbor, the nukes, fighter names, tactics...), but does not follow it's course to the letter. The portrayal of Kilrathi Empire in WC3 was definitely based on Imperial Japan. I'm not saying it's a complete recreation or a parody, but rather a tribute to classic stories from this time period. Also, Confed seem to actually have better equipment, minus the stealth. Kilrathi did have more ships, however, and they didn't had a problem with losing them.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: The E on June 23, 2013, 04:01:06 pm
Yes, and that is all it is. There are no aspirations beyond that. All it wants to be is a pastiche of romantic ideas of fighter combat in WW2.

For people like me, or Batts, that is not enough. The genre is capable of so much more. Games are capable of so much more, and all it takes is a bit more ambition. Not money, or art, just a desire to be more.

There is one very important metric here that we can use to determine how the differing design philosophies of FS and WC have impacted the players, and that is the number of fan-made stories. Granted, FS had an easier entry point due to it shipping with the mission editor, but still, just going by the fan-made projects list on Wing Commander CIC and google, there is nothing that is comparable to the sheer number of new stories people were able to tell in FS.

A game like Wing Commander doesn't really engage the player's imagination. Games like FS, on the other hand, are talked about for years and years, analyzed for years and years, and thus do not age as fast as the Wing Commanders, with their rapidly zeerusting visions of the future.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Luis Dias on June 24, 2013, 09:17:05 am
Obviously here to align with The_E and Batt's pov, to also point out that the "trench run" alluded here as the exception to the WW2's inspiration is actually and ironically the wrong example, since it's actually based on a WW2's movie (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCRIsjJFRNo).

Thing is, this whole WW2's turned pop sci-fi material in Star Wars, etc., and finally Wing Commander and so on, is really aged. We live in a post 9/11 world, and when I say "post" I even mean "Post even caring about 9/11", let alone the ww2 - the last really righteous, and largest, war that was ever fought. We live in a world with different worries, different traumas and different nightmares.

And yet, here comes Robert with his shallow nostalgia thinkin' "I'm gonna get them Star Wars again an' they gonna luvit". I mean, I love SW as the next guy, but I recognize it already as a 20th century art: a mix mash between Buck Rogers meets WW2 meets Casablanca meets Western flics. It's old. It has nothing new to give us. Heck, even Dune is something that seems completely from the next century to this nostalgia trip, and that's a novel that has 50 years already!

But that's perhaps its strength. Sometimes, well, why not go back at these things? And in any case, it's still possible that Robert hired a really good sci-fi writer to do his SP campaign. I'll wait and see, but I wouldn't bet on it other than being boringly about WW2 all over again.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Dragon on June 24, 2013, 03:38:46 pm
Yeah, that's the it's main strength these days. Sometimes, it's nice to go back to those times, to zeerusty, WWII-ish future, to old-timey fighter jocks and obviously evil, honor-obsessed aliens. Though TBH, I wouldn't want that for Star Citizen. While a nostalgic approach could work, I'd rather have something new this time. Considering the scale of Star Citizen, it should try to be much more than a nostalgia trip. I hope they will do so.
Obviously here to align with The_E and Batt's pov, to also point out that the "trench run" alluded here as the exception to the WW2's inspiration is actually and ironically the wrong example, since it's actually based on a WW2's movie (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCRIsjJFRNo).
Actually, it's a bit more complicated. "Dam Busters" isn't that well known, so the "trench run" is actually SW inspired. SW is, in turn, inspired by Dam Busters. It kind of goes like that, many motifs can be traced like that to antiquity.
Yes, and that is all it is. There are no aspirations beyond that. All it wants to be is a pastiche of romantic ideas of fighter combat in WW2.
You're still talking about WC3. Wing Commander =/= WC3, even if it's the most famous part. Take a look at WC4, or WC2 (the latter is rather dated, though). WC4 is completely unlike WC3 in that regard, being much darker and more ambiguous. Try it out, if you haven't yet.
There is one very important metric here that we can use to determine how the differing design philosophies of FS and WC have impacted the players, and that is the number of fan-made stories. Granted, FS had an easier entry point due to it shipping with the mission editor, but still, just going by the fan-made projects list on Wing Commander CIC and google, there is nothing that is comparable to the sheer number of new stories people were able to tell in FS.
I believe that there are two factors to take into consideration: times and engine accessibility. Wing Commander 4? 1996. FS2? 1999. Four years of difference, which is a really long time in internet evolution and computer technology. Wing Commander had books written about it, something which FS can't boast about. By the time of FS2, hardly anybody wrote books about video games anymore, but modding became much more popular. Times change. Another factor is that FRED gave people the ability to create missions for FS2, while none of the Wing Commanders were even moddable (WCP did have some capabilities, but that's it). FS2 campaigns are one step up from text fanfiction, and the latter does exist for WC universe. Another thing is that SCP massively prolonged FS2's lifetime. I believe that if it still used the engine from '99, there'd be much less campaigns made and the community would be a lot smaller. FS2 literally has one of the most malleable, flexible and easiest to mod engines I've seen. Plaintext tables, intuitive utilities and simple, yet powerful mission editor all go a really long way.
WC not only didn't get such thing as an SCP, it got WC: Prophecy, which, IMO, did more harm than good to the series. Overall, I believe that those disparities have a lot more to do with technicalities than with the story and universe presented.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Luis Dias on June 24, 2013, 03:53:43 pm
Actually, it's a bit more complicated. "Dam Busters" isn't that well known, so the "trench run" is actually SW inspired. SW is, in turn, inspired by Dam Busters. It kind of goes like that, many motifs can be traced like that to antiquity.

What I meant is that it goes back to the same source. It does and you don't have to bring Homer's Odyssey or something.


Quote
You're still talking about WC3. Wing Commander =/= WC3, even if it's the most famous part. Take a look at WC4, or WC2 (the latter is rather dated, though). WC4 is completely unlike WC3 in that regard, being much darker and more ambiguous. Try it out, if you haven't yet.

I remember watching all WC4's cinematics. Yes, that was something beyond WW2, but again, if Star Citizen pulled WC4 all over again, I'd probably be even more bored at it. Can you really blame me? I won't go into spoilers here, but come on, that twist has been pulled off so many times now it's not even worth a sigh.

Quote
Overall, I believe that those disparities have a lot more to do with technicalities than with the story and universe presented.

That's probably true and I side with you on this one. I know *exactly* what The_E is pointing out, and while I personally agree with him, that is, the reasons why I have much fonder memories of FS2 than WC4, why I hang here and debate, why I take these things with interest,  have nothing to do with technicalities, I think you make a convincing case on why probably most other people stuck with FS2 rather than WC4.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Dragon on June 24, 2013, 05:19:03 pm
I remember watching all WC4's cinematics. Yes, that was something beyond WW2, but again, if Star Citizen pulled WC4 all over again, I'd probably be even more bored at it. Can you really blame me? I won't go into spoilers here, but come on, that twist has been pulled off so many times now it's not even worth a sigh.
Actually, a new franchise would have a very difficult time even attempting something like WC4 did. Part of it's appeal was showing the darker, grayer side of a normally pretty light-hearted, black and white series. To do something like that, Star Citizen would have to establish a status quo, then subvert it halfway through. It's main campaign long enough to conceivably try it, but it'd not be a good move. WC4 is better than WC3, but it simply wouldn't work as well without the context of previous games. Familiar characters also played a very important role, it just wouldn't be the same if you didn't know half of those people before (some of them really well, even a familiar twist can be shocking if done with a character you thought you knew). To try doing something like WC4, but without all that, would be foolish and I don't think they'd attempt it.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Luis Dias on June 24, 2013, 05:21:42 pm
Makes sense. Same thing applies with FS2 regarding FS1.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Black Wolf on June 24, 2013, 07:34:14 pm
Actually, a new franchise would have a very difficult time even attempting something like WC4 did. Part of it's appeal was showing the darker, grayer side of a normally pretty light-hearted, black and white series. To do something like that, Star Citizen would have to establish a status quo, then subvert it halfway through. It's main campaign long enough to conceivably try it, but it'd not be a good move. WC4 is better than WC3, but it simply wouldn't work as well without the context of previous games. Familiar characters also played a very important role, it just wouldn't be the same if you didn't know half of those people before (some of them really well, even a familiar twist can be shocking if done with a character you thought you knew). To try doing something like WC4, but without all that, would be foolish and I don't think they'd attempt it.

Best way to do that would be something like the SOC loops in FS I reckon. You play along, twenty or thirty missions in the status quo, then you get sent away to do three or four missions in a new situation, new options, and possibly things aren't so black and white any more. Then things revert and you're back in familiar territory - but the knowledge that there is that hidden, other side to the universe you're presented with colours everything you see and do from that point on.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Dragon on June 24, 2013, 07:45:39 pm
This is a possible approach, but ideally, it won't be black and white from the beginning. It's meant to be a very open game, so the players should have the option to side with the aliens, and it shouldn't really be an evil one. What I was talking about was the sheer impossibility of re-creating anything resembling WC4-ripoff story for Star Citizen (addressing Luis Dias' concerns).
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Mikes on June 24, 2013, 07:49:01 pm
What I don t get is why people focus on the "potential" single player story / plot of Star Citizen so much in this thread.

Even if they cut Squadron 42 out completely and only released the persistent universe (i.e. background story only, no plot) I would still be very very interested in this game.
With the level of immersiveness they are showcasing this looks like a roleplayers dream. Fully realised ship interiors and the ability to crew ships together with friends... for that alone, sign me up! LOL.

And if that wasn't enough: Full modding support and the ability to host your own servers.

Seriously... why are we even talking about the story?;) I don't remember looking forward to a game quite so much since the Space Sim era ended and that is not gonna change even if the Squadron 42 part ends up lackluster ;)
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Black Wolf on June 24, 2013, 07:51:16 pm
See, I'm the exact opposite. If they released this as a multiplayer only, persistent universe role playing game, I'd not even glance at it, space sim or not. Appealing to the greatest possible fanbase is a good move, I don't think that's going to be in question.

Plus, if there was no capacity for single player, how would anyone make the (surely inevitable) FS mod for it? :p
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Dragon on June 24, 2013, 07:53:07 pm
Well, the SP mode and story has been promised to us, and it's gonna be released about 6 months before, so it's worth discussing. That said, it'd only be one story told in the universe. Not minor by any means, and it'll be the first impression of SC we'll get, but Star Citizen won't end there.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Mikes on June 24, 2013, 07:56:48 pm
Plus, if there was no capacity for single player, how would anyone make the (surely inevitable) FS mod for it? :p

I has full modding support. The *capacity* for singleplayer is never in question, only whether the "official" singleplayer will have a good or not so good story. 

Having people ripp into a game about it's *potential story* - that likely isn't even written yet - is kinda wierd in my eyes considering how much everything that we actually do know about the game rocks. ;)


Heck... with the tech and assets they are showcasing I would even be excited about it if they released the whole thing as nothing else but a mission editor. LOL.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Luis Dias on June 24, 2013, 08:11:18 pm
Go easy there pilot. I have yet to see how the game will actually play and if it's actually fun or not. I will always remember the utter disappointment that Unreal Tournament 2003 was, despite its amazing "product values". Nothing is really a good substitute for sheer fun.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: SpardaSon21 on June 24, 2013, 09:22:16 pm
I just want a War in Heaven mod where you're a Gef merc taking odd jobs in Sol for whoever's willing to pay for your services while the war rages around you.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: MatthTheGeek on June 25, 2013, 01:10:54 am
Seriously... why are we even talking about the story?;)
It's more about thinking of the storytelling potential the game has, than the actual story they'll give us. You are going to be limited quite fast in building an engaging universe and background if you only have open-universe tools in your hands.

As far as I'm concerned, everything RSI ships alongside the engine is nothing but examples and placeholders for modding. Best way to not be disappointed and focus on the cool part of the game.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Hades on June 25, 2013, 02:37:41 am
It's a Chris Roberts game, so considering his past games (all of them), I'm not expecting anything more than WWII in space like WC, Starlancer, and Freelancer were (unless this time he surprises us, which I do hope)
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Dragon on June 25, 2013, 05:28:50 am
Freelancer wasn't WWII in Space (well, gameplay-wise it was, but then, so was FS2). In fact, it had a rather interesting storyline, though it'd be much better off if they didn't cut it off halfway through due to budget constraints. WC4 also didn't had a WWII-style story (in case you missed the previous discussion), and you can call WCP many things, but not a WWII ripoff. Can't really speak for Starlancer (I could never find the disk), but it seems to be more like "Cold War gone hot in Space" than WWII. Roberts done plenty of things beside early Wing Commanders he's mostly associated with.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: NGTM-1R on June 25, 2013, 06:03:03 am
It literally started with Pearl Harbor and the course of the action more closely follows that of the Pacific Theater than the way you want WC3 to.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Dragon on June 25, 2013, 06:12:48 am
You mean Freelancer? The one that starts with terrorist attack on a civilian station, and then another one a diplomatic mission?
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Luis Dias on June 25, 2013, 08:41:22 am
I can't see the connection between Freelancer and WW2 tbh. Much more to do with stuff like the episode ST:TNG "Conspiracy" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation)) and so on.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Dragon on June 25, 2013, 08:59:59 am
Precisely. Looks like NGTM-R1 either didn't actually play the game he's talking about, or failed history. :) I have no idea what's there at the start of FL that even resembles Pearl Harbor. The attack in the intro was clearly terrorist (or at least seemed like that...), and the rest of the plot bears no resemblance to Pacific Theater whatsoever.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: NGTM-1R on June 25, 2013, 04:34:07 pm
You mean Freelancer?

I mean Starlancer, which you said was the Cold War. Actually I'm surprised you didn't figure that out from the description. You did discuss several games, why you assumed I meant Freelancer rather than assessing each in turn as a possibility is beyond me. Maybe you just like to toss out not-veiled-at-all insults?

As to Freelancer, I've not bothered trying to fit it over any particular timeline, since it seems to owe more to conspiracy-theory plotting with a Trench Run at the end. (Going in full throttle because Nomads don't have cruise disruptors.)
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: redsniper on June 25, 2013, 04:48:47 pm
I think he actually meant Starlancer which starts out with some attack that cripples the good guy fleet, necessitating volunteer pilots, which is where you the player joins the story IIRC. And it was also the game you mentioned later in your post, so it stands to reason he was talking about that instead of Freelancer.

Or you know, we could all just interpret each others' posts in the ways that make the least sense so we can justify being jerks.

e: hurr, ninja'd.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Luis Dias on June 25, 2013, 04:53:52 pm
I never meant to be a jerk. Why the hell. The proposition we were arguing was wether if Robert was able to do something other than WW2 altogether. Clearly he is. I do think we have some small evidence that this new game will be "ww2" all over again (basically the visuals, the ships, the insistence on the "squadron" thing, etc.), but one can hope!
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: NGTM-1R on June 25, 2013, 05:00:14 pm
I never meant to be a jerk.

I don't think the comment was directed at you.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Dragon on June 25, 2013, 06:40:17 pm
I mean Starlancer, which you said was the Cold War. Actually I'm surprised you didn't figure that out from the description. You did discuss several games, why you assumed I meant Freelancer rather than assessing each in turn as a possibility is beyond me. Maybe you just like to toss out not-veiled-at-all insults?
Ah, that explains it. The way it's presented in FL's backstory (and from what I've seen of the factions), it's The West vs. The Commies. However, if you put it like that, this does actually look like Pacific Theater, only with factions swapped. That said, I don't really know Starlancer, and I stated it already. The main subject of my post was FL, so I assumed you meant that.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Luis Dias on June 25, 2013, 07:00:10 pm
You know, now that I come to think of it, we live in probably the most amazing decade in terms of technological miracles happening all around us, and yet I can't remember a single sci fi movie or game from since 1999 that is actually captivating and thought-provoking. Except perhaps for Mass Effect but even that.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: IronBeer on June 26, 2013, 01:08:50 am
I think he actually meant Starlancer which starts out with some attack that cripples the good guy fleet, necessitating volunteer pilots, which is where you the player joins the story IIRC. And it was also the game you mentioned later in your post, so it stands to reason he was talking about that instead of Freelancer.
Starlancer's plot is even more of a transparent reference than that. Hello? The Flying Tigers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_tigers)? Starlancer's angle on "WW2 in space" has about all the subtlety of a truck to the face. Not that it's a bad thing, but it just is.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Hobbie on June 26, 2013, 01:12:35 am
I find the Chris Roberts games to be quite enjoyable. That being said, I've got more hours playing Freelancer than I do most of my other games combined (excepting maybe Guild Wars and Unreal Tournament).
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: TrashMan on June 26, 2013, 03:16:46 am
What's this talk about "the amount of story"?

Will this trhead de-volve to FS vs. WC? C'mon HLP, I expected better from you.

Who cares which universe is "better"? Better is subjective. We get more space-sims, so everybody wins here.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Gray113 on June 26, 2013, 03:24:17 am
Trashman,

Agree 100% with this
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Luis Dias on June 26, 2013, 08:30:55 am
I couldn't care less about "which universe is better", but I *do* care about whether if we are going to get well written thought provoking material or not. I also don't give a damn if your standards are lower than mine, just don't confuse things ok.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Mikes on June 26, 2013, 08:50:50 am
Anyone else find it kinda weird how people who went nuts over games like "World of Tanks", "Planetside 2, or "Mechwarrior Online" (of all things lol) ...  that didn't even have a story or singleplayer... AT ALL ...

... take a look at this game with it's breathtaking visuals, the amount of details and immersion and it's persistant world, the modding ability and go.. uh meh, it's "probably" (probably? WT*?!) going to have a not so good story in the (additional) single player part!

Frankly... it's almost comical.


What's going on guys?
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Luis Dias on June 26, 2013, 08:53:03 am
You find it comical because you are unwilling to stop for a moment and consider the possibility that these are not the same kinds of people at all. Is it such a hard thing to do?
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Mikes on June 26, 2013, 08:54:42 am
You find it comical because you are unwilling to stop for a moment and consider the possibility that these are not the same kinds of people at all. Is it such a hard thing to do?

Actually I checked the old threads before I made this post.

You are right if you point out that it may not be *everyone*, but the point still stands.

Still comical.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Luis Dias on June 26, 2013, 08:57:17 am
Very well then, I can only speak for myself.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: The E on June 26, 2013, 09:43:29 am
Anyone else find it kinda weird how people who went nuts over games like "World of Tanks", "Planetside 2, or "Mechwarrior Online" (of all things lol) ...  that didn't even have a story or singleplayer... AT ALL ...

... take a look at this game with it's breathtaking visuals, the amount of details and immersion and it's persistant world, the modding ability and go.. uh meh, it's "probably" (probably? WT*?!) going to have a not so good story in the (additional) single player part!

Frankly... it's almost comical.


What's going on guys?

Since when are games like Star Citizen with a strong emphasis on single-player content and MMO-ish arena shooters in any way comparable?

We care about the story because SC is going to have one. MWO and World of Tanks, on the other hand, were never going to.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: swashmebuckle on June 26, 2013, 12:26:50 pm
After reading through this discussion, I think I will be disappointed if the story isn't some sort of bungling trope-filled cheesefest.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Polpolion on June 26, 2013, 12:38:34 pm
Anyone else find it kinda weird how people who went nuts over games like "World of Tanks", "Planetside 2, or "Mechwarrior Online" (of all things lol) ...  that didn't even have a story or singleplayer... AT ALL ...

... take a look at this game with it's breathtaking visuals, the amount of details and immersion and it's persistant world, the modding ability and go.. uh meh, it's "probably" (probably? WT*?!) going to have a not so good story in the (additional) single player part!

Frankly... it's almost comical.


What's going on guys?

What's so weird? WoT and Planetside 2, as far as I was aware, never even pretended to have singleplayer stories. They're just not expected from the games they're trying to be. With Mechwarrior Online you're just plain wrong. Years ago it originally was going to be a single player game, an actual reboot of the MechWarrior games. People were frustrated when it turned into a F2P multiplayer game, and had to begrudgingly warm up to it. And now people expect SC to have a strong singleplayer presence, so obviously people are going to be concerned if it has a lame story.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Scourge of Ages on June 26, 2013, 03:01:26 pm
The difference between Squadron 42 and WoT/MWO/Planetside is that that Squadron 42 will be a single player campaign. (I know, derp)

A single player campaign without a decent story and just steadily increasing difficulty/intensity is about as interesting as Pacman and just much longer; it's easy to get bored.

With Star Citizen or the other MMOs mentioned, they are all designed around dynamic situations and battles against real people. They're like procedurally generated campaigns that you can write your own stories to, and gameplay that is constantly shifting and always challenging, and always fairly fresh.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: NGTM-1R on June 26, 2013, 03:29:56 pm
What's going on guys?

Study EVE for awhile and realize the power and importance of player-created narrative when interacting with other players and then you can pretend to some kind of understanding. Until then you're just blowing smoke.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Mikes on June 27, 2013, 09:27:08 am
The difference between Squadron 42 and WoT/MWO/Planetside is that that Squadron 42 will be a single player campaign. (I know, derp)

So we are bashing Star Citizen, which features a full multiplayer persistent universe and full modding support, because it also includes Squadron 42, which is single player and this *additional* singleplayer campaign *might* have a WW2 in space story.

And we are not bashing other games that do not even include single player.  Nope we are all excited about those. Nevermind that Star Citizen is much more than just the singleplayer campaign.

Got it. Makes sense now....  Star Citizen sucks because it's gonna be WW2 in space again, and we know this because it's a Chris Roberts Game, who never made anything else but WW2 in space games. Except Wing Commander IV. And Strike Commander. And Privateer. And we ll also ignore that the singleplayer campaign is merely one half of the game. Yeah I see it now... it's so gonna suck! :) :coughs:



That is kinda how this thread reads anyways. ;)
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Aesaar on June 27, 2013, 09:45:31 am
Star Citizen isn't WW2 in space, it's the 4th century Roman Empire in space.  And tbh, the world is already far more interesting than WC ever was.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Luis Dias on June 27, 2013, 09:51:12 am
So we are bashing Star Citizen, which features a full multiplayer persistent universe and full modding support, because it also includes Squadron 42, which is single player and this *additional* singleplayer campaign *might* have a WW2 in space story.

I haven't seen any Star Citizen bashing. What I've seen is a realist lowering of expectations when it comes to story. I think what Roberts is trying to do is great, and I hope he succeeds, however those who are awaiting for the revival of a Freespace-like experience are just expecting too much.

Star Citizen isn't WW2 in space, it's the 4th century Roman Empire in space.  And tbh, the world is already far more interesting than WC ever was.

What do you mean, Roman Empire? This is interesting.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: The E on June 27, 2013, 09:54:31 am
Quote
Got it. Makes sense now....  Star Citizen sucks because it's gonna be WW2 in space again, and we know this because it's a Chris Roberts Game, who never made anything else but WW2 in space games. Except Wing Commander IV. And Strike Commander. And Privateer. And we ll also ignore that the singleplayer campaign is merely one half of the game. Yeah I see it now... it's so gonna suck!  :coughs:

I think you misunderstood basically everything said in this discussion. Some of us are worried that SC's single-player content will just be a rehash of things we've seen done in Wing Commander. None of us has commented on the multiplayer aspects at all, because there is little that we know about it at this point. We don't know if they're going for a strongly curated model a la Guild Wars, or a fully player-driven one a la EvE.

So yeah, we're looking at the SP stuff in isolation, and criticizing the tendencies we see there based on the past products of the developer involved.

We're not bashing other games for their lack of a Singleplayer campaign because, and this is an important point you seem to have missed entirely, they were never planned to have a single-player campaign. I mean, we also criticized StarCraft 2's single player campaigns, even though the SP content there is also only half the game! Tell me, were those discussions also wrong?

Squadron 42 may be an amazing game. Star Citizen the MMO may be an amazing experience. We don't really know at this point. But what we do know is what Chris Roberts has done before, we know his sensibilities, and we know what we would like to see in a game. And some of us feel that those sensibilities may make this game worse. Others feel differently, obviously.

I haven't seen any Star Citizen bashing. What I've seen is a realist lowering of expectations when it comes to story. I think what Roberts is trying to do is great, and I hope he succeeds, however those who are awaiting for the revival of a Freespace-like experience are just expecting too much.

This, pretty much. Some of us want a more FS-y game, and we're pretty sure we won't be getting it out of vanilla SC, and that makes us sad.
That does not mean we want SC to fail. A successful SC will create an ecosystem where big flashy spacesims may once again  flourish, and that is something everyone here has a stake in.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Mikes on June 27, 2013, 09:55:20 am
What do you mean, Roman Empire? This is interesting.

Lots of information on the webpage. Not going to link it as they are going to switch to the new webpage in just a few hours (just google it then) and any link would be outdated tomorrow.

The name "Star Citizen" actually relates to it. Citizenship will be earned through military service (or bribes/bought). A lot of people are hoping for some real cynic "Star ship trooper" style references, although that is as much speculation as the WW2 witch hunt in this thread.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Luis Dias on June 27, 2013, 10:07:11 am
Read it again (I had read it before a long time ago it seems), it's not that much info tbh, other than namedropping the RE, let alone describing it as the "4th century" one (which is what I was finding interesting). I wouldn't mind some Starship Troopers' fanservice.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: MatthTheGeek on June 27, 2013, 12:48:25 pm
This, pretty much. Some of us want a more FS-y game, and we're pretty sure we won't be getting it out of vanilla SC, and that makes us sad.
Or just all the more determined to fix that ourselves.

Who's with me.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Aesaar on June 27, 2013, 01:51:33 pm
Luis Dias: As I understand it, the world is meant to feel a lot like the waning years of the Roman Empire.  There's a good deal of political tension between Earth (Rome) and Terra (Constantinople), a gradual eroding of the central authority, and a pretty big border threat the overstretched military is having increasing difficulty responding to.  Don't know how good SQ42's story will be, but I'm liking the universe so far.

This (http://starcitizen.wikia.com/wiki/United_Empire_of_Earth) is a decent starting point.

Matth: I'm completely in.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Mikes on June 27, 2013, 04:04:52 pm
I think you misunderstood basically everything said in this discussion. Some of us are worried that SC's single-player content will just be a rehash of things we've seen done in Wing Commander. None of us has commented on the multiplayer aspects at all, because there is little that we know about it at this point. We don't know if they're going for a strongly curated model a la Guild Wars, or a fully player-driven one a la EvE.

Actually that was exactly what I commented on. (bold part)

None or few have commented on the multiplayer aspects at all - or at least not recently in the thread - despite the multiplayer being pretty much the central part of the game.

And there is quite a bit of information available... i.e. official server that will hold all  players in one persistent universe (stated to be scalable to millions of players), with battle instances limiting player count (number to be determined in alpha testing) to what allows it to offer actual space sim gameplay.

Aside from the official servers you will also be able to host your own private servers with full modding support. That alone is having a ton of people exited as heck.

Gameplay wise the persistent universe offers several of the usual and some unusual career paths, from the traditional trader, mercenary and pirate options to explorers (able to discover and explore everything from relics/space stations/abandoned ships to whole jump points and systems which they can then name if they are the first to discover it) to even a dedicated "racing" career (complete with special "racing ships" and ship variants) or even the ability to head your own company with planetside factories and all.

Also... the ability to multicrew the larger ships with your friends and, if attacked, call any friends within jump distance to help you with the battle.
We also know that we will not only be able to move around the interior of any ship, but also that there will be small arms and boarding actions on those ships.

Furthermore, persistent events: The example given was that if a player manages to kill the NPC "Dread Pirate Roberts" who was wreaking havoc in the border systems.... Dread Pirate Roberts will afterwards be dead and killing him will become part of the legacy of the character(s) who killed him.

They also have a rather unique part of dealing with death, where your character can actually die and you continue playing your next of kin or whoever you named as beneficiary in your will.
(Keep in mind this is not an RPG, so your character won't lose any stats and you will not lose any items or your ship either....... but frankly, I find it kinda cool that you can actually die - that is: after being disabled multiple times and having several limbs/body parts replaced.)

Actually... there is much more known about the universe and the multiplayer part than there is known about SQ42 (except that it is singleplayer with coop drop in drop out functionality.)
Which makes this thread especially weird with so many people focusing on that one singular aspect and especially on the one part that we actually do not know anything about yet: the story of SQ42.

I.e. Star Citizen is aiming at offering a "multiplayer Privateer" and "single player/coop Wing Commander" experience in one game, yet people in this thread appear to be somehow almost blind to the multiplayer part, which actually is the larger part of the game that people will most likely spend much more time on, if they have any interest in multiplayer games at all. Heck, it's already confirmed that people who do not have an interest in singleplayer games, will be able to completely skip SQ42 and start in the persistent universe right away when the full game is released.

Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: TrashMan on June 28, 2013, 01:57:58 am
FS is FS, WC is WC.
SC will be SC. Anything else is just projecting and raising a ruckus over nothing.

FS had a different atmosphere, but FS is hardly a perfect game/setting/story. Every story has concessions to make. FS was about the atmosphere, and it had few characters to speak off. Some may like it, some may not.

Personally, I'm glad SC is doing it's own thing. Trying to emulate FS would feel restrictive and Chris has made some great games (Cionquest: Fronteer Wars, Starlancer, Freelancer, etc..).
I doubt I'll be dissapointed.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Hades on June 28, 2013, 06:56:00 am
So long as he emulates nothing of Freelancer, it should be an alright game.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Deathsnake on June 29, 2013, 01:27:22 pm
I hope you have new pants:

WTF Part 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVJIzAvMPQ4&feature=player_embedded
WTF Part 2:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13097-Idris-Corvette-Revealed
WTF Part 3:
http://www.twitch.tv/roberts_space_ind_ch_1/b/423478438

PS:
(http://imageshack.us/a/img829/721/nzw8.jpg)
TCS Concordia down..ups..wrong game! From the DC of the 300i promo Video.

Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Gray113 on July 01, 2013, 02:00:30 pm
Quote
From the DC of the 300i promo Video.

I do love that video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTBzrUwB6Qo
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Patriot on July 01, 2013, 02:16:11 pm
So long as he emulates nothing of Freelancer, it should be an alright game.

What was so bad about freelancer?

I liked that game :(
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Dragon on July 01, 2013, 05:08:41 pm
Yeah, I wouldn't mind some similarities. FL was a great game, if rough along the edges.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Luis Dias on July 02, 2013, 09:37:20 am
I find it really doubtful they are doing that video with the in-game render engine. The clouds are just too perfect, which is a detail that a space sim wouldn't bother much to go into... specially given that the anonymous pilot doesn't even have any hair yet.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: The E on July 02, 2013, 09:55:03 am
I find it really doubtful they are doing that video with the in-game render engine. The clouds are just too perfect, which is a detail that a space sim wouldn't bother much to go into... specially given that the anonymous pilot doesn't even have any hair yet.

There is nothing in that video that is beyond the demonstrated capabilities of the CryEngine. Personally, I found the cloud interaction to be a bit basic (they didn't react to the ship passing through or near them). regarding the pilot: I'm pretty sure that's a conscious decision.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Luis Dias on July 02, 2013, 10:09:19 am
Yes, I was too quick to judge there. Forgot they are taking this out of an immense library of ready-made effects in their disposal. About the baldness, of course it's a conscious decision, now one can be slightly cynical and say they haven't a good hair physics yet, or one can be less cynical and say they are going this route because it will be less demanding on the design cycle and after all, air force pilots do usually have small hair.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Spoon on July 02, 2013, 10:55:15 am
I hope you have new pants:

WTF Part 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVJIzAvMPQ4&feature=player_embedded
WTF Part 2:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13097-Idris-Corvette-Revealed
WTF Part 3:
http://www.twitch.tv/roberts_space_ind_ch_1/b/423478438
Fokkin' hell.
That's all I'm gonna say.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: AtomicClucker on July 02, 2013, 11:00:59 am
100?

Well, this will be interesting to see.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: MatthTheGeek on July 02, 2013, 12:23:20 pm
I just hope they're not gonna make all those misc animations a mandatory part of making a ship. This would make the ship import process ridiculously painful for modders. Adding a basic interior will be painful enough.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: AtomicClucker on July 02, 2013, 03:16:24 pm
I just hope they're not gonna make all those misc animations a mandatory part of making a ship. This would make the ship import process ridiculously painful for modders. Adding a basic interior will be painful enough.

As an amateur modeller myself, those animations would be the death of my time and work flow.

While the level of detail can be appreciated, I just wonder how much is actually necessary.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Mikes on July 02, 2013, 04:36:44 pm
I just hope they're not gonna make all those misc animations a mandatory part of making a ship. This would make the ship import process ridiculously painful for modders. Adding a basic interior will be painful enough.

As an amateur modeller myself, those animations would be the death of my time and work flow.

While the level of detail can be appreciated, I just wonder how much is actually necessary.

They are aiming for maximum immersion.

But that does not mean that you can't simply make mods where you have regular ships without interiors or moving parts Freespace style.
They do have singleplayer options and the ability to host your own servers after all.

What is kinda cool is that if you do manage to make a model that is on par with what they have in game you have the otption of submitting it for review to be included officially in the game.
They have some fans going for that already.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Patriot on July 02, 2013, 04:38:20 pm
What is kinda cool is that if you do manage to make a model that is on par with what they have in game you can submit it for review to be included officially in the game.

Kinda cool? That's seriously cool right there :D
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: MatthTheGeek on July 03, 2013, 01:05:44 am
But that does not mean that you can't simply make mods where you have regular ships without interiors or moving parts Freespace style.
I doubt gameplay would work at all without at least a working modelled cockpit that your character can go in and out of. Too many gameplay mechanics seem to rely on that. And this is already making ship conversion a whole larger pain in the ass than necessary.

What is kinda cool is that if you do manage to make a model that is on par with what they have in game you have the otption of submitting it for review to be included officially in the game.
Honestly, couldn't care less about what goes or doesn't go in official servers.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: TrashMan on July 03, 2013, 01:27:07 am
They are aiming for maximum immersion.

But that does not mean that you can't simply make mods where you have regular ships without interiors or moving parts Freespace style.
They do have singleplayer options and the ability to host your own servers after all.

What is kinda cool is that if you do manage to make a model that is on par with what they have in game you have the otption of submitting it for review to be included officially in the game.
They have some fans going for that already.

The level od fidelity is ridonkolously high.

I might be able to model a ship mesh to their standard... but then acomes animation and then texture work.
They have an entire team of experts working on a single ship. One guy matching that...is a VERY tall order. Maybe if several people band together, but it's hard to do that for one model.

I was so hypes when SC was announced I immediately started to work on modeling ships.... but when the sheer vastness of the task finally downed on me I kinda stopped. By that time I modeled a modular corridor and rooms and a simple cockpit.
... kinda a bumer
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: X3N0-Life-Form on July 03, 2013, 03:13:09 am
I doubt gameplay would work at all without at least a working modelled cockpit that your character can go in and out of. Too many gameplay mechanics seem to rely on that. And this is already making ship conversion a whole larger pain in the ass than necessary.
Wouldn't we be able to slap a generic modelled cockpit on every new ship? Like when we import the same pilot model for FS strikecrafts?
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Luis Dias on July 03, 2013, 04:53:50 am
What is kinda cool is that if you do manage to make a model that is on par with what they have in game you can submit it for review to be included officially in the game.

Kinda cool? That's seriously cool right there :D

I have some pity for those who will be reviewing every attempt at creating these ridiculously detailed and animated ships. "Sigh... no, you got the wheel animations wrong. And no, flaps aren't rotating properly because you got the axis wrong..."
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Luis Dias on July 03, 2013, 05:12:05 am
I also seriously doubt anyone can mod this game into a Freespace mod without serious limitations. I mean, I am not expecting anyone to model the insides of an Orion hangar and its bridge anytime soon....

This is the problem of too much detail. Freespace 2 has the advantage of being a simple world with no "world polygons" whatsoever (just some skyboxes and perhaps some asteroids), where one could focus on modelling two or ten ships, a new gameplay and some cool new missions quite easily. Star Citizen ups the ante and rises expectations. I can imagine how it is now possible to create a new Freespace title using this engine, but that would mean modelling the insides of big and small ships to a detail never before seen. That would require a complete full time development team fully monetized and with a ****ton of resources to pull that off.

How it is.... I can't really see it. What is your general idea, Matth?
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Killer Whale on July 03, 2013, 05:42:58 am
[from parallel topic]
Wait, is this like in-game purchases? I kinda remember how much flak Mass Effect and other games had when they tried to pull stuff like this off.
Yeah, CIG will have to be very careful with how they proceed. It was a crowd funding campaign with rewards, currently it's like a preorder bonus, hopefully it doesn't turn into much more. Asking for money so they can make the game is one thing, if they continue as they are after release then it could go badly.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: MatthTheGeek on July 03, 2013, 06:08:19 am
What is your general idea, Matth?
Automated table conversion for all the easy stuff (am already coding a FS table parser for that), and simplistic barebone placeholder cockpits/interiors for ships, for which I'll need someone who can actually model.

We're not there yet though. I'm at least trying to get a solid headstart with the parser thing, and I'll start experimenting with global automated table conversion with Void Destroyer, if only as a proof-of-concept thing.

The idea being to get the easy-but-boring parts of conversion as automated, solid and foolproof as possible, so we can focus on the actually problematic parts.

Obviously my dream would be to make any TC just by pressing a button, but we're not exactly there.

Who knows, maybe if I have time I can also code a mission parser for automated mission porting. Don't get your hopes up though, I'm basically working blind out here since we have no idea what SC's moddable files will look like. Hopefully we'll be able to get a clearer idea when we get to the alpha.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Luis Dias on July 03, 2013, 06:13:22 am
I'll tell you what, Matth, if you can pull that off I'll buy the game just to play your mod ;).
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Mikes on July 03, 2013, 10:37:59 am
I want "GTVA Citizen TC" now :)
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Luis Dias on July 03, 2013, 10:49:58 am
Damn now I am left with this bizarre wet dream of some crazy and competent developer taking the FS ip, licence the CryEngine and whatever Roberts has added to it and make a FS2 remake. Bah what are the odds.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Deathsnake on July 05, 2013, 02:53:52 pm
DING!

13 Million!

Frigate and Command & Control Center for the Constellation, Retaliator, Idris and bigger Capships - DONE!
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: AtomicClucker on July 05, 2013, 05:02:26 pm
I doubt gameplay would work at all without at least a working modelled cockpit that your character can go in and out of. Too many gameplay mechanics seem to rely on that. And this is already making ship conversion a whole larger pain in the ass than necessary.
Wouldn't we be able to slap a generic modelled cockpit on every new ship? Like when we import the same pilot model for FS strikecrafts?

I would argue this for Lore merits: it's easier to work from existing designs and adapting them to different models that eventually turn into new types of ship: i.e. Hornet and Superhornet. So a series of models could use a unified cockpit/UI layout while differentiating exterior designs but a similar layout for innards. In idiot speak, keep the innards the same and have twenty million paint jobs.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: MatthTheGeek on July 05, 2013, 05:08:24 pm
Yeah, that doesn't really sound adapted to a smooth FS-to-SC conversion process.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Mikes on July 06, 2013, 06:06:22 am
I doubt gameplay would work at all without at least a working modelled cockpit that your character can go in and out of. Too many gameplay mechanics seem to rely on that. And this is already making ship conversion a whole larger pain in the ass than necessary.
Wouldn't we be able to slap a generic modelled cockpit on every new ship? Like when we import the same pilot model for FS strikecrafts?

I would argue this for Lore merits: it's easier to work from existing designs and adapting them to different models that eventually turn into new types of ship: i.e. Hornet and Superhornet. So a series of models could use a unified cockpit/UI layout while differentiating exterior designs but a similar layout for innards. In idiot speak, keep the innards the same and have twenty million paint jobs.

Or you simply ignore the innards and go with the traditional HUD only approach ala Freespace, when you make a total conversion.

Don't take me wrong... I absolutely love the amount of detail and the ability to actually see the insides of your ships that SC offers.... but that doesn't mean every mod/total conversion has to adhere to it.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Patriot on July 06, 2013, 11:58:32 am
The only reason to adhere to that is if you want your ship models to be an official part of the in-game universe.

an FS mod's aim would want to avert that, as FS and SC are not the same universe, as far as i've read into it anyways(which is not a whole lot, i admit)
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Luis Dias on July 07, 2013, 11:49:56 am
It would be really cool to see a swarm of Sathanases killing off everything in SC's universe, and everyone around was like "WTF?!??!"
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: MatthTheGeek on July 07, 2013, 12:17:26 pm
Well, if someone makes a server based around the FS2 events...
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Patriot on August 07, 2013, 02:42:17 pm
 :bump:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/citizens/13163-Fan-Spotlight-Fan-Ship-Designs

Anyone seen this?
I really like the 4th ship, 2nd ship is pretty cool too
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: MatthTheGeek on August 07, 2013, 03:12:46 pm
Yes, I've seen this. If that's the best the RSI fans can do, they're gonna be blown out the water when we start converting some of the fan made stuff from here. This selection is pretty underwhelming...
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Dragon on August 08, 2013, 07:11:21 am
Get Steve-O to show them his stuff. :)
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Commander Zane on August 08, 2013, 08:16:11 am
If that's the best the RSI fans can do...
It isn't. Some models and concept drawings are very well done, particularly those made by Hazz and Henry H. Pashkov (Strannik). Evolution pulled off a pretty good transport as well.
Admittedly, the number of good fan-made works in the modding forum is extremely low when compared to the total number of threads.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: MatthTheGeek on August 19, 2013, 02:27:27 pm
As a follow up to the conversation from there (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=76016.msg1706419#msg1706419)...

I very much feel like the persistent universe part of SC has been overselled somewhat. It makes sense, as it is what attracts most people.

However, a AAA-grade 50+ missions coop-capable SP campaign is nothing to be ashamed of. Obviously, as with everything regarding SC, this is assuming it lives up to expectations. Quantity doesn't necessarily mean quality.

If it ships with a good mission editor, this could however become very interesting...
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Nakura on August 19, 2013, 06:46:05 pm
Discussing this on IRC right now, I will totally be donating to this when I'm not so strapped for cash!
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Spoon on August 20, 2013, 08:46:04 am
I'm calling it, the majority of the 50+ missions are going to be patrol missions.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: X3N0-Life-Form on August 20, 2013, 10:13:57 am
Don't forget the escort mission every 5 missions, and the assault mission every 8 missions.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Nakura on August 20, 2013, 11:06:50 am
I'm calling it, the majority of the 50+ missions are going to be patrol missions.
Not too optimistic about Star Citizen?
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: MatthTheGeek on August 20, 2013, 11:39:16 am
He's just extrapolating from the average content of past Wing Commander missions, which is quite a reasonable assumption.

However, the WC series had to deal with technical restrictions the SC guys don't have today.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Luis Dias on August 21, 2013, 09:18:59 am
yes, but it seems nowadays that imagination has also peaked some time ago.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Phantom Hoover on August 21, 2013, 09:41:34 am
Consider that the space sim genre is basically being resurrected after a ten-year absence based on fan nostalgia. I don't think anyone's going to be doing anything terribly experimental at this stage; people want "more Wing Commander", not "an exploration and deconstruction of the standards of the genre".
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Luis Dias on August 21, 2013, 09:51:09 am
yeah coz that worked wonders with all the hollywood nostalgia movies recently. I mean, just look at Star Trek. It's fabulous!
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Phantom Hoover on August 21, 2013, 10:01:07 am
I'm not really making a value judgement. HLP's been exploring the space fighter gameplay regime for well over a decade now while the rest of the gaming public mostly moved on; I think we are, collectively, more jaded when it comes to the cliches of mission design, and so now that the genre's being rebuilt nearly from scratch all the new output will feel primitive and boring to us.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: MatthTheGeek on August 21, 2013, 11:48:49 am
Then it's up to us to show them what the standards should be now, not what they think it is :)
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Patriot on August 23, 2013, 04:16:01 am
There's something that has been bothering me though.

And it's the fact that, judging by the trailers at least, laser bolts don't seem to travel fast enough for my taste.
Wondering if anyone has that gripe about guns and projectile velocity :/
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: The E on August 23, 2013, 04:30:06 am
That has been confirmed as a bug in the early versions of the game they used to build those trailers.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Patriot on August 23, 2013, 02:26:21 pm
Ha, really? Awesome :D
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Rodo on August 23, 2013, 06:16:23 pm
*looks at laser bols*

GATLING GUNS PLEASE.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Deathsnake on August 24, 2013, 03:35:03 pm
Here are the video of the Event in Germany, Köln:

http://www.twitch.tv/roberts_space_ind_ch_1/b/450808296
See the ships and the three hangar types. Cannot wait... WANT IT NOW!!!!
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Rodo on August 24, 2013, 05:56:59 pm
I devise a new kind of mini game inside SC.

EXTREME Buggie races inside the carrier hangar!

Who's up for some speed?
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Commander Zane on August 24, 2013, 07:24:04 pm
I devise a new kind of mini game inside SC.

EXTREME Buggie races inside the carrier hangar!

Who's up for some speed?
I think someone in the crowd shouted out something along those lines, having races in the Deluxe hangar once other players can join the same session.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Rodo on August 24, 2013, 07:30:55 pm
If we ever get a Bengal, we could do buggie races in it from time to time, like a tournament for HLP members only  ;)

Now seriously, that hangar module looks quite solid work.
The ships look well thought out, the loadout console was VERY NEAT and aside from those minor character animation kirks and some evident collision problems with the buggie this thing is looking pretty high up in terms of meeting the crowdfunding expectations.

edit: Also, I think I might have to start thinking about upgrading my rig... oh this game reqs are gonna hurt.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Phantom Hoover on August 24, 2013, 08:08:36 pm
can someone please explain to me why ****ing around in the hanger is such a big deal in a space sim
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Commander Zane on August 24, 2013, 08:20:32 pm
Nowhere does it say playing games has to be 100% srs bsns.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Scourge of Ages on August 24, 2013, 08:38:23 pm
can someone please explain to me why ****ing around in the hanger is such a big deal in a space sim

Quote from: George Mallory
Because it's there
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Rodo on August 24, 2013, 08:55:10 pm
And because those are probably prime places for firefights to take place when a boarding scenario is implemented.

I call driving the buggie, and request two gunners hoped up.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Aesaar on August 24, 2013, 10:00:53 pm
can someone please explain to me why ****ing around in the hanger is such a big deal in a space sim
By itself, it's nothing.  What it represents, however, is exciting.  It's the first tangible result of 16 million dollars of crowdfunding.  It'll probably be fun for about an hour, but it's a clear sign of progress.  Expect similar enthusiasm when the dogfighting module is released.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: MatthTheGeek on August 25, 2013, 01:21:49 am
can someone please explain to me why ****ing around in the hanger is such a big deal in a space sim
Because what they're releasing isn't just some irrelevant app, it's a pre-alpha preview of the final game engine and data.

For modders, it's the very first opportunity to **** around with it. Don't be too surprised if you start seeing in the next few months screenshots of Uriels in hangars or Hornets in FSO :)
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Deathsnake on August 25, 2013, 03:02:07 am
I think at Thursday when the Hangar Module is release some of yo guys search the files and take a few parts of the models (chairs, engines, landing gear, turrets etc) and we see soon more detailed Freespace ships.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: MatthTheGeek on August 25, 2013, 03:10:28 am
... it's more likely we'll do it the other way around, take SC ships and remove all this pointless high detail stuff that noone will see or care about ingame ;)
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Dragon on August 25, 2013, 06:45:01 am
No, I like the high-detail stuff. If your computer can't handle it, get a new one. :) Those little things are why I like Scooby Doo's and Steve-O's ships so much.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Phantom Hoover on August 25, 2013, 06:58:00 am
sacrificing accessibility for promotional gloss is a bad habit to get into
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: The E on August 25, 2013, 07:40:47 am
sacrificing accessibility for promotional gloss is a bad habit to get into

Umm, have you been following the promotional material on this game at all?

They're specifically positioning themselves as a game for high-end machines. This is exactly what the backers have paid for in terms of visual fidelity.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Mikes on August 25, 2013, 07:57:29 am
Coming back from Cologne right now and lemme tell you, those guys are unlike any developer/publisher you have ever seen. Sitting down and chatting with their fans over a beer in the beergarden, posing for pictures and signing anything from old Privateer boxes and Wing Commander Manuals to mere slips of paper while always having an open ear for questions and even being up for complete silliness like Sandy having pictures taken while being on top of a fans shoulders.

I'd say fan interaction like this didn t exist if I hadn't seen it myself. ;-)
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Dragon on August 25, 2013, 08:36:41 am
I should've been there. :) Pity my entire family is currently pretty much stuck with a rusty minivan that could hardly be trusted to go to another city without breaking down (it's still a lovely car, just a bit temperamental :)). Why do our cars are always broken when they're needed the most? Anyway, I hope I'll be able to go to the next SC event like that with my father. I don't think they'll come to Poland, but Germany or Austria are somewhat reachable from here. Hopefully, they'll be close enough and we'll both have time next time they're in one of those countries.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Phantom Hoover on August 25, 2013, 08:55:04 am
sacrificing accessibility for promotional gloss is a bad habit to get into

Umm, have you been following the promotional material on this game at all?

They're specifically positioning themselves as a game for high-end machines. This is exactly what the backers have paid for in terms of visual fidelity.

I think Matth has a point though, a lot of that fidelity seems to be in areas that are overrepresented in promotional material and underrepresented in actual gameplay.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Rodo on August 25, 2013, 09:20:55 am
I think Matth has a point though, a lot of that fidelity seems to be in areas that are overrepresented in promotional material and underrepresented in actual gameplay.

And you think all fans will just droll over a spinning chair inside the ship, or a functional toilet seat but when it comes to actual gameplay they will just bend over and take any crap the devs devise?

Demands will be done in all areas, that's what they sold with kickstarter, that's what they promised, that's what we'll get.

and buggies.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: MatthTheGeek on August 25, 2013, 09:56:55 am
No, I like the high-detail stuff. If your computer can't handle it, get a new one. :) Those little things are why I like Scooby Doo's and Steve-O's ships so much.
Yeah, but FSO ain't CryEngine3. Detail will have to go away when porting, especially stuff in the inside where you'll never see it in FSO. And all the subobjects used only in misc animations we'll never use in FSO.

There's a lot of potential optimisation to be done here with very minimal impact on the final visual ingame.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Dragon on August 25, 2013, 10:15:24 am
You seriously want to port SC ships to FSO? Why would you want to do that? Given the level of detail, it'd probably be easier to re-model the ships from scratch. Port FS content to SC, it's much more capable. Hopefully, modding it will be as simple as in FS or KSP (plaintext configs FTW!).
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: MatthTheGeek on August 25, 2013, 10:20:41 am
Don't tell me what I can't do until neither of us have tried it.

Keep in mind that porting SC ships to FSO is also doing a proof-of-concept of, eventually, porting SC-intended fan-made ships to FSO.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Rodo on August 29, 2013, 09:03:15 pm
Someone downloaded the hangar already?
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Aesaar on August 29, 2013, 10:34:55 pm
I have.  The Hornet is a gorgeous fighter.  Looking at and entering ships is all it supports ATM.  No buying and equipping things yet.

I don't have a buggy, but that might be because I have only one ship until the Retaliator is done, which will probably take a while.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Deathsnake on August 29, 2013, 11:22:06 pm
5 min then I have some pics ^^

So:
(http://imageshack.us/a/img19/8335/lrmy.jpg)
Enter the 315p
(http://imageshack.us/a/img829/4485/nt97.jpg)
The rear door of the Freelancer. Don't know how to enter the turret..If I click use then only the Door is open/close...hmmm
(http://imageshack.us/a/img268/4940/c1ss.jpg)
The "Catwalk" in the Business Hangar


No Buggy :( And looks like the buy/modify thing is not working yet :(
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Aesaar on August 30, 2013, 01:45:37 am
Ok, I lied.  Customisation interface works fine.  There isn't anything to purchase ATM, but you can shuffle things like weapons around.

Pictorz nao.

The F7C Hornet, very good looking.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img843/1340/up77.png)

The customisation interface.  Works by pressing tab to enable the mouse cursor, then drag and drop.  A bit clunky, but functional.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img822/7101/1jpf.png)

Here we see I switched the wingtip repeaters and the nose guns.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img5/9489/ikyp.png)

The cockpit.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img826/1557/xle0.png)

The gap in the center is where I removed the cargo container, and I couldn't put it back because it disappeared.  Also, can't close the canopy yet.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img405/8016/w9in.png)

Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Deathsnake on August 30, 2013, 02:45:55 pm
(http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/2572/69b1.jpg)

Fleet is waiting for the Retaliator ^^ + Deluxe Hangar
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: MatthTheGeek on August 30, 2013, 02:56:15 pm
(http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/9717/r3ib.png)

Hurr.

For those interested, .pak are unencrypted and can be openned with winrar or any similar archive tool. Modding investigation currently underway, more info coming soon.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Phantom Hoover on August 30, 2013, 03:23:04 pm
Do many devs actually encrypt assets? Using proprietary formats or common ones wrapped up in layers of in-house tools I'm aware of, but actual encryption?
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on August 30, 2013, 03:31:51 pm
yeah coz that worked wonders with all the hollywood nostalgia movies recently. I mean, just look at Star Trek. It's fabulous!

I don't think that's particularly fair.
One of the problems with the game industry is that, recently the number of genres its focused on has been steadily narrowing. As a result of that, people are craving all those genres that got left behind. The resurrection isn't based solely on nostalgia, it's also based on the idea that there's an unfilled niche.

The new Xcom game for example was successful despite being a turn-based strategy game on a console. People weren't making these sorts of games because they thought they wouldn't sell, Firaxis proved them wrong. People will buy these sorts of games and genre if the game is good.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Phantom Hoover on August 30, 2013, 03:34:56 pm
Don't worry yourself; Into Darkness seems to have triggered some kind of deep personal crisis in Luis. This is just his way of working it out.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: MatthTheGeek on August 30, 2013, 03:51:07 pm
Do many devs actually encrypt assets? Using proprietary formats or common ones wrapped up in layers of in-house tools I'm aware of, but actual encryption?
From what I read, Crysis 2 assets are encrypted, and the option is available in the CryEngine SDK.

In other news,

(http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/1360/5roc.png)

Baby steps, people, but modding has just happened.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Luis Dias on August 30, 2013, 04:18:03 pm
Oh look a pink ship. Is it the love boat? :D

No really, that's an awesome pic.

e: damn I hate so much fog. technically impressive shots, but they could take down the fog a bit.

IDK it reminds me too much of those shows from the 80s where the fog disguised the worst parts of their sets.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Rodo on August 30, 2013, 07:55:39 pm
hmmm, shivan 300i
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Phantom Hoover on August 30, 2013, 08:09:42 pm
Oh look a pink ship. Is it the love boat? :D

No really, that's an awesome pic.

e: damn I hate so much fog. technically impressive shots, but they could take down the fog a bit.

IDK it reminds me too much of those shows from the 80s where the fog disguised the worst parts of their sets.

gotta have fog, how else can we show off all our particle effects

the backers won't have the fidelity they paid for otherwise!
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Aesaar on August 30, 2013, 09:43:42 pm
These tile textures are actually pretty nice.   We could definitely make use of them for base hull layers on smaller ships.

Also, the way these ships are texture mapped means importing them to FSO would be an extremely difficult job.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: MetalDestroyer on August 31, 2013, 08:24:12 am
Here my Hornet in the Business Hangar :)

(http://tof.canardpc.com/preview2/b3d41bb3-5ce4-4ae7-87fc-807b9a987bb4.jpg) (http://"http://tof.canardpc.com/view/b3d41bb3-5ce4-4ae7-87fc-807b9a987bb4.jpg")(http://tof.canardpc.com/preview2/acf63138-61c3-44e7-a306-958c7f61f1ab.jpg) (http://"http://tof.canardpc.com/view/acf63138-61c3-44e7-a306-958c7f61f1ab.jpg")
(http://tof.canardpc.com/preview2/41d047f0-4745-4880-8324-8d3c28027176.jpg) (http://"http://tof.canardpc.com/view/41d047f0-4745-4880-8324-8d3c28027176.jpg")(http://tof.canardpc.com/preview2/268c635d-86f0-4c25-9663-15a79a9b9381.jpg) (http://"http://tof.canardpc.com/view/268c635d-86f0-4c25-9663-15a79a9b9381.jpg")
(http://tof.canardpc.com/preview2/e401816a-0a20-47a0-9469-db1727b133bc.jpg) (http://"http://tof.canardpc.com/view/e401816a-0a20-47a0-9469-db1727b133bc.jpg")(http://tof.canardpc.com/preview2/8c1f219e-c826-4d4f-b106-721746957413.jpg) (http://"http://tof.canardpc.com/view/8c1f219e-c826-4d4f-b106-721746957413.jpg")
(http://tof.canardpc.com/preview2/f5a9c9fb-03c2-4b25-b754-68d99093955e.jpg) (http://"http://tof.canardpc.com/view/f5a9c9fb-03c2-4b25-b754-68d99093955e.jpg")(http://tof.canardpc.com/preview2/cc7301ff-e47c-4805-82c7-72a79a9066ba.jpg) (http://"http://tof.canardpc.com/view/cc7301ff-e47c-4805-82c7-72a79a9066ba.jpg")
(http://tof.canardpc.com/preview2/9656992f-b486-4213-bdff-1ee7a335046b.jpg) (http://"http://tof.canardpc.com/view/9656992f-b486-4213-bdff-1ee7a335046b.jpg")





Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: MetalDestroyer on August 31, 2013, 08:26:50 am
And the Constellation

Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: MatthTheGeek on August 31, 2013, 03:29:03 pm
(http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/9017/v8u0.png)

Hnnng

I be so close.

Soooo clooooose :<

Still doesn't show in hangar
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Rodo on August 31, 2013, 05:30:26 pm
haha look at that!
Dude, I will forever recognize you as the ultimate modder if you pull it off.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: X3N0-Life-Form on September 01, 2013, 08:51:06 am
Haha, nothing stops the Matth :P
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Deathsnake on September 01, 2013, 10:17:05 am
Just Photoshop (found it on the RSI Forum) but...

(http://i5.minus.com/in9QkPWqAxuID.png)

OMG.... don't want to wait 1,5 years... NOW PLS :/
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: The E on September 02, 2013, 02:34:20 pm
I made a useless video

Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Lorric on September 02, 2013, 03:13:16 pm
I can see right through you, E! :)

The visual style reminds me of Timesplitters: Future Perfect a bit.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Phantom Hoover on September 02, 2013, 04:45:41 pm
You know, for all these ships are all polished and exquisitely detailed and high-poly, I really think that if you actually ported the ship into FSO and used it for actual dogfighting (as opposed to, er... climbing ladders or opening doors) they'd all still look decidedly 'meh'. They just don't have interesting shapes at all; it's like they were designed to look good in some big-budget sci-fi movie rather than a dogfighting game. It's a bit of a worrying trend.

E: that image Deathsnake posted is a pretty good example: it looks way more like something you'd see in a JJ Abrams film than a Freespace game.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Rodo on September 02, 2013, 05:14:50 pm
Really Phantom?
The bengal carrier just looks awesome, the Hornet too. I'm not quite fond of the other designs but that's just because they give a "retro" feeling for me.
But saying they look "decidedly meh"?, I think you just don't like SC and that's about it  :p
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Phantom Hoover on September 02, 2013, 05:55:54 pm
Yeah, I've been kind of underwhelmed since SC was made public, but I think there's a basis for a lot of that. I didn't just say the designs were "decidedly meh" — I said they were decidedly meh in the context of a dogfighting game. They look great in the promotional material I've seen, but I've seen very little footage that's representative of the kind of visual experience I'd get from FSO; it's all been things like the 300 series commercial, shot with a very cinematographic style when the ship's in flight and with a lot of  focus on diegetic details like the ship interiors and their animations which you're going to spend maybe 5% of the game actually noticing (and the hangar module is obviously more of the same). Honestly, I find the ships in Oolite look more engaging, and they're all made on a ten-polygon budget with very simple textures. Don't get me wrong, it's well-executed and it helps immerse you in the world and grab public interest, but it troubles me that this is what they seem to have made the focus of their initial development.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Aesaar on September 02, 2013, 10:07:05 pm
Of course they've made ships the focus of their initial development.  Kinda hard to make gameplay when there's nothing to actually fly.

You're basically criticising the game for not having much to show as though a game in development for barely a year should have more.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Phantom Hoover on September 03, 2013, 04:02:31 am
No, I'm criticising it for having a lot to show, none of which actually seems that important to the game being made.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: TrashMan on September 03, 2013, 05:39:37 am
That's your impression...because you have a limited view/idea of what SC should be and what kind of experience it should deliver.

To be perfectly blunt nad honest, I find your critics silly. Ships aren't designs for dogfighting? What does that even mean? That they have to have specific shapes and looks? That's bolloks.

CS makes sheps feel and look REAL. That does more for dogfighting than spikes of villany or whatever.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: MatthTheGeek on September 03, 2013, 06:21:01 am
It's all irrelevant anyway. All the SC data is nothing more than glorified placeholders waiting to be replaced by modders.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Phantom Hoover on September 03, 2013, 06:40:35 am
Although all this polish does put a pretty big hurdle in the way of amateur creators. Didn't you say one possibility for the reason the Uhlan's not working was that it was missing some animation or other?
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: The E on September 03, 2013, 06:44:47 am
Thing is though, they do have promised to release design documents and how-tos at some point in the future, so that modders can create content for it.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Phantom Hoover on September 03, 2013, 06:48:11 am
Oh, that's a relief then.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: MatthTheGeek on September 03, 2013, 06:50:24 am
Although all this polish does put a pretty big hurdle in the way of amateur creators. Didn't you say one possibility for the reason the Uhlan's not working was that it was missing some animation or other?
I need to try again, from what I've read recently on the forums it might simply be because my SDK version was outdated (there's been a new version released a couple weeks ago or something).

Thing is though, they do have promised to release design documents and how-tos at some point in the future, so that modders can create content for it.
They definitely confirmed they'd release entire mod tools, including plugins for modelling programs.

But yeah, the hangar is not exactly modding friendly at that point, nor was it ever intended to be.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: TrashMan on September 03, 2013, 07:45:56 am
Thing is though, they do have promised to release design documents and how-tos at some point in the future, so that modders can create content for it.

I have been buggingthem to also release various assets - like chairs, pannels, screens, etc and various other stuff used to "decorate" interiors and exteriors. Also clear examples.

IIRC, they will do it, and the tools should include the Hornet as an example.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: MatthTheGeek on September 03, 2013, 11:36:33 am
Stop bugging them. There is so much that is going to change in the future that releasing assets or modding advice now would be counterproductive both for us and them.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Deathsnake on September 03, 2013, 01:31:15 pm
Try to get with the Buggy under the Hornet and what did I see?

One of the two missileracks :D
(http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/7393/s4np.jpg)
Hornet had 8 FF (Fire & Forget) Missiles - Lucky if four 325 are behind you :D 4 Kills more
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: MatthTheGeek on September 03, 2013, 02:18:17 pm
(http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/7932/wabd.png)

Didn't manage to put the lancer in the hangar but I've got them both side by side in the SDK.

CLOSE ENOUGH

(Lancer scale is approximative).

And in other news

(http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/5770/13tr.png)

Collision mesh is a bit in the way, but managed to export the P52 to obj without too much trouble. This should become importable in FSO.




EDIT: Anyone willing to give a shot at toying with SC models

Extract .cgf files (.cga won't work) from your .pak files (with winrar or 7zip, they're just renamed .zip files).

DL Noesis (http://oasis.xentax.com/index.php?content=downloads) (god that website is ugly)

DL the Cryengine plugin (http://oasis.xentax.com/index.php?content=plugins) for Noesis and put it in your plugin folder.

Use noesis to export to whatever format you want (most 3d formats are available, including dae).

Thing will be in several pieces all over the place though, I think it just breaks the submodel hierarchy.



The second option (the one with which I took the P52 screenshot) is to just load the cgf in the cryengine sandbox (just put all the SC pak in the GameSDK folder for the SDK to read em), put a ship anywhere as a brush and export the selection as obj. It merges all the subobjects together though, hence my issue with the collision mesh above.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: JGZinv on September 03, 2013, 04:44:43 pm
Have you tried any of the other rippers like http://www.deep-shadows.com/hax/3DRipperDX.htm
3Dvia or similar?

I'd do it, but my home rig can't run SC.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Phantom Hoover on September 03, 2013, 04:55:21 pm
So what's this about texture maps?
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Aesaar on September 03, 2013, 11:55:53 pm
What's what about texture maps?
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: TrashMan on September 04, 2013, 02:26:08 am
Stop bugging them. There is so much that is going to change in the future that releasing assets or modding advice now would be counterproductive both for us and them.

I didn't bug them to release it NOW, I'm not that stupid.
Just to release it when they can.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Luis Dias on September 04, 2013, 04:32:21 am
I made a useless video
<snip>

This isn't useless, it's quite awesome!
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Hades on September 04, 2013, 04:42:07 am
I didn't bug them to release it NOW, I'm not that stupid.
Just to release it when they can.
I'm sure that you're important enough to be telling them to release stuff that'd be a given to be in the game anyway. Yup yup, most definitely.

Also Matth, the main issue with direct porting SC ships into FSO is the mapping = it's a sort of tile texture with UV drawing on it or something to that effect, a technique we definitely do not have in FSO (if we did, maybe Trashman's ships would look passable)
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Aesaar on September 04, 2013, 06:02:30 am
As I understand it, it's that CE3 supports multiple different UV maps for a given surface, allowing you to tile a base hull texture, and them add properly mapped details on top of that.  It's also got support for decals.  Because FSO doesn't have any of these things, it quite simply isn't possible to import SC ships to FSO as they are.  And even if we could, it'd be a performance nightmare.  Including normal and specular maps, the Hornet has 48 different texture files, most of which are 2048x2048.

Their LOD models, on the other hand, do seem to be conventionally UV mapped, and they might be usable.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: TrashMan on September 04, 2013, 06:41:55 am
I didn't bug them to release it NOW, I'm not that stupid.
Just to release it when they can.
I'm sure that you're important enough to be telling them to release stuff that'd be a given to be in the game anyway. Yup yup, most definitely.

There's a difference between having to export stuff and search for it, and having all the stuff in a 3D format, ready and categorized for you, and given before game release with examples.


Quote
Also Matth, the main issue with direct porting SC ships into FSO is the mapping = it's a sort of tile texture with UV drawing on it or something to that effect, a technique we definitely do not have in FSO (if we did, maybe Trashman's ships would look passable)

(http://www.rottenecards.com/ecards/Rottenecards_31517291_pnjtgk3mh2.png)
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Rodo on September 04, 2013, 08:41:40 am
Yeah that was really classy, from both of ya pals.

On topic, did any of you spend your UEC credits on this online store?
I'm tempted to get the CF-117 but afraid of wasting it on something and then getting better bang for buck trade later on, it's not like I have tons of money to invest in games so my perspective for further funds is quite limited.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: The E on September 04, 2013, 09:01:26 am
Nope. I'm waiting with purchases until I get to see them make a difference, not to mention that you can't buy upgrades for the Freelancer at the moment.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: SpardaSon21 on September 04, 2013, 12:04:34 pm
I can't figure out how to work the holotable, or I would be looking at upgrades.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: MatthTheGeek on September 04, 2013, 12:11:53 pm
Keep TAB pressed and move dat mouse cursor.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: MatthTheGeek on September 04, 2013, 01:38:14 pm
DoublePostessness.

This guy found how to switch hangars and ships. Contrary to the hideous model switch I did, this one actually preserves ship animations.

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/49023/guide-to-checking-out-other-ships-hangars (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/49023/guide-to-checking-out-other-ships-hangars)

Note that he's missing a step, when switching the ship xml out, you also have to go in the xml and replace the name of the ship on the first line by the name of your ship.

Code: [Select]
<Vehicle name="RSI_Constellation" category="StarFighter" displayname="RSI Constellation" classname="Class 3">becomes:
Code: [Select]
<Vehicle name="OJ_300i" category="StarFighter" displayname="Origin JumpWorks 300i" classname="Class 3">if you were owning a 300i like me.

This xml might also well hold the missing piece to my broken Lancer.


EDIT:

(http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/9444/p9hy.png)

Aaand that's all for tonight.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Aesaar on September 05, 2013, 08:12:29 am
omg.

Matth is carrying the honor of HLP and Freespace 2.  If he succeeds, the very first custom ship modded into Star Citizen will be the Lancer/Uhlan. 

Matth, you most make it work.  And then you most gloat all over the SC forums.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: MatthTheGeek on September 05, 2013, 12:17:30 pm
You could stop stating what rests on my shoulders and give me a hand instead ! :D
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Deathsnake on September 05, 2013, 01:18:04 pm
Very Nice Work Matth ;) Now: where is the chair, missiles, door? cockpit? :D :D :D
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Rodo on September 05, 2013, 04:16:39 pm
 :eek2:

FS is invading SC, prepare to board CIG ppl.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: JGZinv on September 05, 2013, 09:47:34 pm
I'd help but my rig can't run the hanger....  hard to test mod edits.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: MatthTheGeek on September 08, 2013, 01:53:29 pm
(http://s14.directupload.net/images/130908/azrsqluv.jpg)

I did not do this but it looks quite awesome. Thought I'd share.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: TrashMan on September 09, 2013, 02:24:32 am
Methinks I'll have to upgrade my rig.

It doesn't meet the minimum requirements for the hangar (756MB graphics card and 6GB of memory)
But I do have an SSD disk and the latest i5 processor
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: MatthTheGeek on September 10, 2013, 01:05:17 am
Quote
We are currently looking into a tech to do real deformations on the mesh. This still needs to be evaluated but there are good chances to find this in the final game.
GEOMOD CONFIRMED (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/163661/#Comment_163661)
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Rodo on September 10, 2013, 11:15:21 pm
That would be bitting a little too much, I wonder how many of the things they are talking about will actually be implemented in the narrow timeframe they've got available.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Fury on September 10, 2013, 11:40:41 pm
They still have 1.5 years time to implement any features they want. Those that don't make the cut, can be finalized and added in later. At least that's the gist I'm getting that SC will have support cycle more similar to MMO's than your usual sell-and-forget AAA titles.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Luis Dias on September 11, 2013, 04:22:19 am
Plenty of time to implement "geomod". It's only a matter of priorities, and this Robert guy seems fascinated with bringing every detail up to ultra realistic levels.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Interceptor12 on September 19, 2013, 09:43:51 am
Anyone going to be modding in the hercs or the apollo?
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: The E on September 19, 2013, 09:48:24 am
MattTheGeek is trying to figure out a pipeline in order to convert ships.

(http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/7932/wabd.png)
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Interceptor12 on September 19, 2013, 10:05:30 am
MattTheGeek is trying to figure out a pipeline in order to convert ships.

(http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/7932/wabd.png)
Sweet! If we can get it to work there will be many glorious ships to share with the star citizen community. Of course we may want to edit the stat tabs just a tad, 60m/s a second in space maybe to slow for some.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: MatthTheGeek on September 19, 2013, 01:29:40 pm
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/137100/#Comment_137100 (https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/137100/#Comment_137100)
Quote
Quote
Hello Tom,
Are you developing the game with server or client side rules for hit detection, movement, etc.?
Out of the box for the CryNetwork library and Dedicated server, the server is authoritative for damage arbritration.  But we must have a hybrid approach.  1) If the client is a dumb terminal, then the client will (very annoyingly) have to lead shots on their machine, as ever shot is timestamped and sent to the server where it will have to rewind the physics model to see if a hit truly was made via analyitical geometry calculations.  But if 2) if we have the client hit detection athorative, it will feel very responsive - but unfortunately only works well on consoles (PS3,XBOX,ect) because they are more closed systems while the PC is much easier to poke and prod and provide cheats for.   So ultimately, you need a hybrid approach.  Things that do work will are using a global timebase for distributive physics over a network and shared between client/server and remote-clients.  Mathmatically interpolating and extrapolating motion from known remote network positions help visually (with the hope of minimizing jerk due to sudden changes of acceleration - and overly corrected true entity positions that get broadcast).  Yes, the server will be damage athorative, but we must let clients aim at their target (otherwise variable latency will prove that they will never be able to hit their targets) - You we get instant gratification of smoke/particles and other visual queues and tactile queues that you are hitting your target - and it should take "x-amount-of-time" to destroy your target.  The server will have a red/yellow/green network packet histogram and history buffer as well as all sorts of other metrics of attempting to detect lag-pedals/switchs and the sorts) - and it will also have timestamps of what the client sent for damage and what the server geometric view of the world says - and come up with a heuristic 'error distribution' or 'error thresholds' and look for anomalies and give weighted dmg calculations from more trusted events verse less-trusted scenarios.  There is an art and science to this - and will take lots of trial and error to calibrate between a hybrid approach.   This is just for starts.

Thought this was an interesting read, so thought I'd share.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Deathsnake on September 21, 2013, 11:02:04 am
Not in the CryEngine but in Unity:

I found this on the RSI Forums:

Fly the P52 from the Conni with the Oculus Rift:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LcCT0vP38Y
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Deathsnake on September 22, 2013, 09:29:41 am
Some pics of my hangar
(http://s1.directupload.net/images/130921/el49xhys.jpg)

play a little bit around with the cam and get a 1A view of the P52 Cockpit:
(http://s1.directupload.net/images/130922/sl2tyvop.jpg)
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: MatthTheGeek on September 22, 2013, 09:53:09 am
Retaliator's not released yet, what did you expect.

We don't even have CA for it.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Deathsnake on September 25, 2013, 05:05:14 am
Another shot: Reclaim my Aurora Fleet:

(http://s1.directupload.net/images/130925/t6ikhaqx.jpg)
Reta will be shown maybe on 10.10. Also there the Limited Ships should be back again. Reclaim then the  300i to the M50.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Rodo on September 25, 2013, 10:25:04 am
I spot a Buggie!
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Deathsnake on September 25, 2013, 11:40:02 am
Aye. But I need some armor for it, jump jets, a gun and put it on the Connie. Land on a planet and play in the style of Mass Effect 1 with the Mako.

*Dream*
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: jg18 on September 27, 2013, 03:27:08 am
Great Gamasutra interview (http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/200998/chris_roberts_on_star_citizen_.php) with Chris Roberts about his success with crowdfunding for SC and the business side of game development in general.

EDIT: I haven't yet had a chance to try out the hangar module. Need to do that.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Deathsnake on September 28, 2013, 01:08:17 am
New Patch ^^

Turrets working:
(http://s7.directupload.net/images/130928/xfu27d53.jpg)
PEW PEW!
(http://s7.directupload.net/images/130928/errs7hmh.jpg)
(http://s7.directupload.net/images/130928/q92ycaoz.jpg)
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Phantom Hoover on September 28, 2013, 01:11:06 am
the geometry at the tips looks... screwy
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: MatthTheGeek on September 28, 2013, 01:23:03 am
There is something really weird with the way HLP scales down those jpeg. It feels like I'm looking and an upscaled 800x600 screenshot until I click on it.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Deathsnake on September 28, 2013, 12:40:32 pm
Maybe we can discuss a ship art (if its true)

(http://i.imgur.com/TVjmbIo.png)

Retaliator? Looks so. The two side turrets, engine inside the hull - nice. But those wings? Hope only deployed on planets. In Space please they are not used and stay besides the hull. Looks like they moveable:
http://s163.photobucket.com/user/ishtmail/media/Star%20Citizen/retaliatorpossible2.jpg.html
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: MatthTheGeek on September 28, 2013, 12:51:43 pm
The **** is with that whole "wings in space are useless" mentality ?

Wings look cool. That's all there is to it, and that's all there needs to be to it.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: An4ximandros on September 28, 2013, 01:28:54 pm
Wings add useless surface area for an enemy to hit.

That said, since we got wings in space, why not make them part of the Magitek that makes ships behave like aerocraft instead of spacecraft? Animate them, make them glow, make them live.

Nobody seem to try for that.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Lorric on September 28, 2013, 01:57:54 pm
Wings add useless surface area for an enemy to hit.

That said, since we got wings in space, why not make them part of the Magitek that makes ships behave like aerocraft instead of spacecraft? Animate them, make them glow, make them live.

Nobody seem to try for that.
I suppose if you wanted realism, you could say a ship was both a space and atmosphere fighter thus needing the wings. Another use for wings would be to hold racks of secondary weapons.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Dragon on September 28, 2013, 03:43:53 pm
And radiators. Spaceships need radiators. Oh, and wings make great RCS thruster booms. The wings on Retailator, if not fold-away, are at least variable geometry. It's rather obvious that the intention is for them to be used in atmospheric flight. The weapon racks also are a nice bonus.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Nakura on September 28, 2013, 05:57:19 pm
Looks like I'm hosting a Star Citizen panel at Kawa Kon 2014! This should be interesting, but I'm not sure what I'm going to do for it yet. Any suggestions?
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Spoon on September 28, 2013, 06:14:52 pm
The **** is with that whole "wings in space are useless" mentality ?

Wings look cool. That's all there is to it, and that's all there needs to be to it.
Agreed.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Lorric on September 28, 2013, 06:26:45 pm
The **** is with that whole "wings in space are useless" mentality ?

Wings look cool. That's all there is to it, and that's all there needs to be to it.
Agreed.
Well I certainly like your winged ships, Spoon. :)
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Hades on September 29, 2013, 01:16:38 am
And radiators. Spaceships need radiators. Oh, and wings make great RCS thruster booms. The wings on Retailator, if not fold-away, are at least variable geometry. It's rather obvious that the intention is for them to be used in atmospheric flight. The weapon racks also are a nice bonus.
The only time I've ever seen wings in space handled well for anything (including RCS) is in Babylon 5 via the Starfury.

Well I certainly like your winged ships, Spoon. :)
Someone has to. :nervous:
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Lorric on September 29, 2013, 01:36:28 am
Well I certainly like your winged ships, Spoon. :)
Someone has to. :nervous:
What do you mean?
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: The E on September 29, 2013, 01:40:45 am
Something not relevant to this thread, please move on.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Phantom Hoover on September 29, 2013, 02:41:32 am
throwing in my support for the 'anti-wings' camp
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: SpardaSon21 on September 29, 2013, 01:42:24 pm
I am firmly behind wings in space for reasons of rule of cool.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Aesaar on September 30, 2013, 12:44:20 am
The **** is with that whole "wings in space are useless" mentality ?

Wings look cool. That's all there is to it, and that's all there needs to be to it.
This.

Also, is that Retaliator "concept" really what people on the SC forums were fawning over?  Ok, you can't see much from that image, but what I can see doesn't look very good (even considering every ship there is all flattened).  Looks flimsy as hell.

I'll wait for a proper image, but if it doesn't end up looking more solid, I may reclaim mine.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Commander Zane on October 10, 2013, 08:04:45 pm
So I've been trying to watch tonight's livestream, and YouTube has proven itself to be just as ****ty at livestreaming as it is at video playback.

Consequentially, I may be completely wrong when I describe the following (Because 320p).

The stream was showing the members of the Turbulence team in Montreal. One of them had this desktop image:

(http://i.imgur.com/PDJD0Uf.jpg)
I think it's an HTL Lindos.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Luis Dias on October 11, 2013, 04:54:47 am
Of course it is, what else could it ever be?
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Aesaar on October 11, 2013, 10:52:02 am
Ok, nevermind.  These images convinced me that the Retaliator is in fact cool as hell.

(https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/uwj83eh6vyscfr/source/SHOTATMOrear.JPG)
(https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/x9b5i5notngnwr/source/SHOTLANDEDfront.JPG)
(https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/mh0y45p29qqpzr/source/RETALIATORorthos.JPG)
(https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/nfj2h68yll2c5r/source/RETALIATORcutaways.jpg)
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Luis Dias on October 11, 2013, 10:54:44 am
JFC, how many ships will they detail to this level? Can they keep up like this to the end? That is awesome.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: MatthTheGeek on October 11, 2013, 11:07:06 am
Ok, nevermind.  These images convinced me that the Retaliator is in fact cool as hell.
I'm not sure what you expected.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Luis Dias on October 11, 2013, 11:11:22 am
Constant snark can only get you so far Matth... clearly he was skeptical about it. Is that something weird?
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: The E on October 11, 2013, 11:33:42 am
Soooo the Retaliator is a Boanerges?

....yeah, I can get behind that.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Aesaar on October 11, 2013, 11:37:37 am
Ok, nevermind.  These images convinced me that the Retaliator is in fact cool as hell.
I'm not sure what you expected.
Well, I admit the piece of art Deathsnake posted made me a bit pessimistic.  I knew it wasn't a good piece of art though, so I didn't melt mine down or anything.  Clearly, my doubts were unfounded.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Interceptor12 on October 11, 2013, 03:19:13 pm
Okay boys, who here is preparing their man-pants for the modding competition.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: MatthTheGeek on October 11, 2013, 03:40:25 pm
It's a ship-making contest, not modding. Few people qualify.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Deathsnake on October 11, 2013, 03:43:54 pm
Reta is Godlike now ^^ But more a Corvette then a Bomber. Look at all the places in the sideview

1 Pilot
2 in the Navigation & CIC
5 in the turrets
1 in this upper seat like a tank commander

9 People - beds are 8 with escape pods + the one for the captain with the Couch.

Also in comparison with the Connie... 50m against 51m? More like 70m
(http://i.imgur.com/pYLd8Q6.jpg)

But also the Gladiator Looks asskick!
(https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/pnk7od6fm5iuir/source/Gladiator_Front_Hobbins.png)
in this case a real bomber:
(https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/jgm0by6cdrao6r/source/Gladiator_Cockpit_Hobbins.png)
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: The E on October 11, 2013, 03:44:30 pm
It's a ship-making contest, not modding. Few people qualify.

And they're looking for people who can do the whole pipeline, from modelling to conversion to rigging.

Some sweet prizes though.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Aesaar on October 11, 2013, 04:33:08 pm
Hades, Esarai, and I are probably going to give it a go.  4 months to design and build a weapon, and then the top 16 teams from that get to work with CIG for the ship.

And yeah, the Gladiator also looks kickass.  If there was a package for either it or the Retaliator, I'd switch my Hornet out for one without hesitation.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Phantom Hoover on October 11, 2013, 04:36:47 pm
are there material rewards for winning this competition
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: MatthTheGeek on October 11, 2013, 04:49:08 pm
You mean, aside from the $30k ?
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: TrashMan on October 11, 2013, 05:17:20 pm
The VTOL front engines are in a really retarded place. Obstructing the turrets.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: TrashMan on October 11, 2013, 05:17:57 pm
Maybe we should team up...lol
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Killer Whale on October 12, 2013, 12:40:31 am
Hades, Esarai, and I are probably going to give it a go.  4 months to design and build a weapon, and then the top 16 teams from that get to work with CIG for the ship.
I'd cheer you on!
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Rodo on October 12, 2013, 09:20:04 pm
All these ships are awesome, but really!
I'm starting to wonder if they are ever gonna consider how to tackle the 'too many big ships, too few ppl to man them' problem.

It would suck for this game to turn into a 1 vs 1 + tons of stupid npcs.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: JGZinv on October 12, 2013, 10:53:15 pm
Well you have clans in that case, or corps... but yes you can hire NPCs, or even have a successor, or alt character pick up for you.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Rodo on October 12, 2013, 11:30:51 pm
Not worried about that, I meant what will they do to drag all those backers from their shiny retaliator's captain chair to a lousy turret station on another guy's ship?
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Mikes on October 13, 2013, 05:42:46 am
It would suck for this game to turn into a 1 vs 1 + tons of stupid npcs.

Do you like playing Freespace, War in Heaven, etc? Just wondering... because the if answer is yes... then why are you even worrying about it?

Frankly...   just Freespace as it is, with the option of having a coop buddy join on any mission and maybe even encountering the occasional Ace that is played by another human player would be awesome, if you ask me.
I frankly don't get that MMO born fetishism that everything and anything "has" to be run by players and don't you dare ever use an NPC for anything ... I've seen what THAT usually turns into and it's pretty much the opposite of what I would call "immersive".

By and large ... way too many people behave like childish d***s, due to the anonymity of the Internet. Unless you want to simulate a galaxy where every other person is a childish d***, that's not a good basis to build an immersive game on. ;)

The way SC intends to handle that issue is actually one of the biggest selling points in my eyes: I.e. an actual simulation focusing on the personal experience within a multi planet society with billions of people (taken into account when simulating the economy even) ... some of them just happen to be players. ;)
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Dragon on October 13, 2013, 05:49:24 am
Yeah. Consider that the population of a future interstellar society would be much higher than Earth's today. Even if you somehow got all the Chinamen to play SC, you'd still be unable to avoid NPC AI completely. SC, with it's complex simulation, would be unable to force one carrier to be crewed by thousands of actual people, doing small, but boring jobs involved in running it. Personally, I'd be OK with a singleplayer game with such complexity, as long as the AI doesn't suck (a big request, granted, but I hope they can pullt if off).
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Killer Whale on October 13, 2013, 08:21:35 am
"Hi, I'm Jeremy Young, Chief Engineer in charge of maintaining the coolant lines and heat sinks aboard the HMS Valiant."
"So what does that mean in-game?"
"Repeatedly connecting two valves with pipes before time runs out for 14 hours a day."
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: The E on October 13, 2013, 09:27:50 am
Not worried about that, I meant what will they do to drag all those backers from their shiny retaliator's captain chair to a lousy turret station on another guy's ship?

Nothing? I mean, that's what hireable NPCs are for.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Rodo on October 13, 2013, 09:52:26 am
Nothing against NPC's, they will be needed to populate the universe alright.
What I'm saying is that there's no real value for a player as it stands now to do some kind of colaborative gamplay, everyone will just aim to get their Bengal carrier right from the start cause 'that's what a good player should do'.
So every other role in the game for which SC is creating content is automatically turned into a waste of time (from the player's pov).

Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: NGTM-1R on October 13, 2013, 11:59:33 am
So every other role in the game for which SC is creating content is automatically turned into a waste of time (from the player's pov).

I take it you've never worked to get a Titan in EVE or for that matter realized that actually getting a Titan is one of the most reliable indicators in the world that a player will quit the game within six months.

If you approach it from this perspective as the endgame, then chances are you will, perforce, very quickly end the game once you get there. The problem is self-correcting; in the meantime we can fleece them for money.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: MatthTheGeek on October 13, 2013, 12:09:17 pm
Also there's like half a dozen Bengal carriers existing in the PU. Just sayin'

Also, carriers are lame. Can't dogfight for ****. And not even a big fat beam to compensate.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Rodo on October 13, 2013, 12:12:10 pm
Nah, never even played EVE as a mater of fact.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Phantom Hoover on October 13, 2013, 12:23:09 pm
Putting in a whole system for player controlled turrets with modelled seats etc seems entirely consistent with RSI's 'detail first, gameplay later' design philosophy.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Aesaar on October 13, 2013, 07:56:14 pm
Kinda hard to design gameplay without ships to fly.

Dogfight module is happening in a few months anyway.  That's when we'll see meaningful gameplay development.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Phantom Hoover on October 14, 2013, 01:41:06 am
They could just have used dummy models to develop the dogfighting; or just have designed the ships in a way that doesn't seem completely blind to the systems of the game they're planning on making.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Mikes on October 14, 2013, 01:43:15 pm
Nothing against NPC's, they will be needed to populate the universe alright.
What I'm saying is that there's no real value for a player as it stands now to do some kind of colaborative gamplay, everyone will just aim to get their Bengal carrier right from the start cause 'that's what a good player should do'.
So every other role in the game for which SC is creating content is automatically turned into a waste of time (from the player's pov).



A big reason why MMOs are structured the way they are structured is that gameplay takes a backseat to monetization.


The hope with a fully crowdfunded game we may finally see a developer that puts gameplay first... and, with no publishers or investors to breath down their necks, maintain integrity over the years.

One might argue that we already had such a developer with ArenaNet ... but that's about it, had, past tense. Thanks NCSoft.

Moral of the story... the usual MMO tropes will (hopefully) not even be applicable.
Flying around in a Capital Ship or even Bomber...  in a skillbased *dogfighting game* is certainly not gonna be "endgame" ... rather I would argue that *endgame* itself is one of those tropes one should forget about.
ArenaNet already has shown one option of how to do that for a fantasy RPG in their first game. Too bad the 2nd is turning out so differently.

Let's hope Chris Roberts can get it right for a Space Sim game... i certainly do wish him the best of luck.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Unknown Target on October 14, 2013, 02:04:20 pm
Does anyone else want to do this contest? PM or email me. invertedvantage at gmail.

Looking for modelers or (especially) game integration people.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Mikes on October 14, 2013, 02:39:17 pm
I've been toying with the thought of getting into modeling for years with work always getting in the way ... and now I wish I had given it a serious shot and wasn't a completely clueless :P

Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Killer Whale on October 14, 2013, 08:56:23 pm
Clueless in a 14yr old game's community is having an advantage in a -2yr old one. This is a fantastic time to start learning.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: MatthTheGeek on October 22, 2013, 02:12:49 pm
Welp. I just gave up and tripled my pledge to get me a shiny Supar. When I saw it had milspec max powerplant and that the second seat could be used to carry prisoners, I was sold.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: esarai on October 22, 2013, 02:16:50 pm
I've been toying with the thought of getting into modeling for years with work always getting in the way ... and now I wish I had given it a serious shot and wasn't a completely clueless :P

If you want to learn, you're in the right place.  There are plenty of people here who can and will help you.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Deathsnake on October 22, 2013, 03:29:49 pm
Hornet Promo is out. Upgraded my to the F7C-M Super Hornet
(http://abload.de/img/f7c-m_superhornetc8ueh.png)
Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=g0gZES2pTWk
PDF and Variant-Infos
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13329-Introducing-The-Anvil-Hornet-Lineup
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Unknown Target on October 22, 2013, 05:26:17 pm
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=85879.msg1716399#new

Looking for folks.
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: MatthTheGeek on October 23, 2013, 01:25:24 am
...I think someone forgot to not make the ball turret compatible with the nose hardpoint :p

(http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/8941/kmx6.png) (http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/8941/kmx6.png)
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Deathsnake on October 23, 2013, 01:54:56 am
My F7C-M:
(http://s7.directupload.net/images/131023/plxvhd9h.jpg)
(http://s1.directupload.net/images/131023/p4j9fvxb.jpg)
All Systems ready, start in 3,2,1 - go!
(http://s1.directupload.net/images/131023/z7nf9r97.jpg)
Title: Re: Robert Space Industries. From the Wing commander + sequels makers
Post by: Patriot on December 03, 2013, 01:29:44 pm
Necro, because good news everyone!

I pledged as well, bought me an Aurora MR+ package(previously known as the Merc package), will probably buy something a bit more potent once i graduate and get that job i've been working for.