Author Topic: Help with 3D modelling  (Read 8501 times)

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Offline Karl

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Help with 3D modelling
I thought I would start a new thread and place it in the public branch of the forum so that I could have as many people look at the problem as possible.

I have a problem with a 3d model I am attempting to add to MC2, the majority of the faces are missing or white...
I am learning 3ds as I go so if you are attempting to help please do not assume I have done anything correctly!

Here is a link to a pic of what my problem is



I am using 3ds max and exporting as a .ase file, the model displays correctly within 3ds

Also for anyone who wants to see the original .max files I can provide these
« Last Edit: December 13, 2010, 03:11:53 pm by Karl »

 

Offline Starman01

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Re: Help with 3D modelling
Please send me the ase, max and the texture file. I will take a look :) I can't help you with the mech animations, but at least I learned now a little while adding new buildings. The editor is really *****y if the ase file is not correctly edited.

But maybe people with more experience in 3DS Max can be of more help here than myself.....
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Offline Karl

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Offline headdie

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Re: Help with 3D modelling
Looks like some/all of the faces have inverted so the outside is facing in, in blender it would be a case of drop the model into mesh editing, select everything and recalculate normals.  Don't know how you go about that in max though.
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Offline Karl

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Re: Help with 3D modelling
Normals have been suggested a couple of times now, I have tried what I can regarding normals with 3ds but I think I will download blender and use the recalculate see what happens.

This may be my ignorance but would inverted faces result in transparent faces in the 3d model in game?

 

Offline headdie

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Re: Help with 3D modelling
Normals have been suggested a couple of times now, I have tried what I can regarding normals with 3ds but I think I will download blender and use the recalculate see what happens.

This may be my ignorance but would inverted faces result in transparent faces in the 3d model in game?

I would say so yes.  Has conversion been done before using the method you are using?

Below is first a ship with correct normals and the second one is fully inverted

[attachment deleted by admin]
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Offline Starman01

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Re: Help with 3D modelling
Really hard to say. Flipped normals was also my first idea. But I have converted the model to cob and 3ds, and at least in truespace the normals are fine and texture coordinates preserved. Usually flipped normals are visible there. But I noticed that some of the submodels have incorrectly centered axis. When I open the model, the arms and shoulder launchers are displaced (and that quite a lot actually)

Texture and channels also looked ok on the first view, but my experience in that case is not so big.

@Karl : You still have the material reference "vulture" in the model. According to the viewer, I cannot see it used at all in the model. Maybe remove that entry from the ase file and then check again.

Please try this file, I removed the vulture entry completly.

http://wcsaga.hard-light.net/team/Starman/downloads/lupus2.ASE

PLS NOTE : I changed the filename so you don't accidently overwrite your original. But don't forget to change your ini file, otherwise you will not use it :)

If that doesn't work, try the second issue. Rename my texture below to lupus.tga.

http://wcsaga.hard-light.net/team/Starman/downloads/concrete.tga

This texture is working correctly, so if the faces are closed ingame with that texture (coordinates will be messed up of course), than you can be sure that the texture is your problem, not the mesh.

BTW, I'm going to bed now, and tomorrow I will not be reachable until the evening. I'm in desperate need of a new OS install, the errors are taking overhand. But I should be finish later the day
 
Take care :)
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Offline Thaeris

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Re: Help with 3D modelling
Karl, I'm not sure if you are familiar with these concepts or not, but I'd like you to take a look at posts 216 and 222 on this thread:

http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=72062.200

Hopefully, that will be of some use to you.

:)
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Offline Karl

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Re: Help with 3D modelling
Thanks all I appreciate the help,

@Thaeris - I am unfamiliar with everything! This is my first ever model. I have read your posts and I am modeling in quads, the point about shaders was alittle beyond me.

@Starman, thanks for the help, I will try with your concrete texture and my original model and if that fails I will move to your vutureless model, and final stab will be recalc normals with blender

Again not doubting that the normals could be the problem but could/would anyone be able to shed some light on why the model looks fine in 3ds if the normals were dodgy?

Cheers all

 

Offline Angelus

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Re: Help with 3D modelling
Thanks all I appreciate the help,

@Thaeris - I am unfamiliar with everything! This is my first ever model. I have read your posts and I am modeling in quads, the point about shaders was alittle beyond me.

@Starman, thanks for the help, I will try with your concrete texture and my original model and if that fails I will move to your vutureless model, and final stab will be recalc normals with blender

Again not doubting that the normals could be the problem but could/would anyone be able to shed some light on why the model looks fine in 3ds if the normals were dodgy?

Cheers all

convert tzhe mesh in Max to editable poly. Then select face, check "ignore backfaces" or what ever it's called in english.
The click somewhere on the mesh. If Max doesn't allow you to select the face, it has its normals flipped.
Uncheck the option, click the face again and click on flip. Rinse and repeat.


Edit: just checked the mesh in Max. The normnals seem fine, maybe something went wrong with the conversion?
« Last Edit: December 13, 2010, 07:45:47 pm by Angelus »

 

Offline Karl

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Hi all,

@Angelus thanks for looking at the mesh.

Ok here is where I stand, despite what Angelus said about the normals looking good (not to say he is wrong) I am having some success with flipping the normals (again I think Angelus may have a point about how 3ds is exporting the ase file - there are others online who have had similar normal problems with 3ds 9+ and ase exports), but this success only happened after I applied a reset xform modifer, currently I have everything displaying correctly (though with some of the faces if can be difficult to see) with the exception of the arms and missile racks, the inside face just wont display correctly, I may delete the faces and start a fresh for them.

 

Offline Starman01

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Well, since it didn't happened to my models, and I also export the ase with Max 9 (though I still have to edit texture entries manually), maybe you could try with my way of doing it. Sounds maybe stupid, but it works, and is certainly faster than editing the mesh a few hours.

Export your model to 3ds, then use 3d Explorer to export it to *.cob, then back to 3ds. Import in Max, export as Ase.  Watch that the scaling stays correct.

It works for me that way.
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Offline Karl

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I think I have it sorted now but I also have the original unedited model, I will attempt your conversion technique with the original file.

by the way I have some ideas about stopping those mechs from being destroyed I will be implementing it this weekend

 

Offline Starman01

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Cool man :)

That will speed up my chapter 2. I just have to add some brains to the big final battles, and have two other missions done. Though I was a little lazy these days, Life is currently really *****ing with me  :mad: I hope I can do a little more tomorrow and help with magic's stuff
MECHCOMMANDER OMNITECH

9 out of 10 voices in my head always tell me that I'm not insane. The 10th is only humming the melody of TETRIS.

 

Offline Karl

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Thanks for the help all here is the finished product
http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc384/KarlPav/Untitled-8.jpg

Now I have another question, it is about UV mapping. What methods do you modellers out there use to create space efficient UV maps?
I am currently using box mapping which basically "photos" the object from all 6 directions and then removes coincidental faces from one of the two "photos" where they occur.

This isn't very space efficient and I have to rearrange the UV's on the map to pack them together leaving a lot of dead space (or deadspace for those out there who are Issac Clarke fans).

I have looked at instructions on pelt mapping and will have a crack at that soon, but I just wanted to survey the wider community for other techniques and ideas

I am using 3ds max

Thanks in advance for any help

Karl
« Last Edit: December 23, 2010, 07:31:44 pm by Karl »

 
I planar map everything. It's probably not very efficient, but there's never any streaking or stretching. Unfolding can also be helpful.

 

Offline Karl

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Re: Help with 3D modelling
Thanks Bobbtmann I will have play with planar, I was using box but havent really experimented (It was working so why fix it)

 

Offline Karl

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Re: Help with 3D modelling
Ok time for Karl to reach out the community for more helpful tips and tricks

I am remodeling the Lupus because I have polycap room and the arms and legs are wonderfully low poly and ugly, not representative of the concept art.

here is the concept art

The problem I am having is finding an aesthetically pleasing way of terminating the back of the arm gun and beginning the rest of the lower arm to the elbow joint.

From the concept art you can see that the gun is quite large relative to the rest of the arm but another complicating factor is the shape, as you can see it is basically a box rotated 45 intersecting with a hexagon, so quite an odd shape to directly taper into another shape (the rest of the arm I would like to make "round" so 8-10 sided polygon).

So anyone with suggestions or ideas of how to construct a nice "wrist" joint (for lack of a better term)
« Last Edit: January 12, 2011, 03:41:48 pm by Karl »

 

Offline Starman01

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Re: Help with 3D modelling
Would you change the feet to something more common ? Pretty puppy-eye please ?  :p
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Offline Karl

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Re: Help with 3D modelling
Once I have the mech working completely in game I will make a custom version just for you Starman, with new feet!