Author Topic: What the Shivans were doing at Capella... :o  (Read 35451 times)

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Offline Snail

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Re: What the Shivans were doing at Capella... :o
Two points. Doesn't say two planets anywhere there. However, what I think is that nanojumps aren't possible without highly advanced navigation systems. And I mean ADVANCED. 's why we haven't seen nanojumps.

 

Offline Kie99

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Re: What the Shivans were doing at Capella... :o
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In High Noon it would not have been practical for the Colossus to nano jump, because the Sathanas would have done the same thing as soon as the Colossus emerged, which would put the Colossus at a tactical disadvantage.

Wrong. The sath just jumped in, and in a perfect position to shoot at the Collie to boot, so it would have to charge up it's drives to jump again. If anything it is a PERFECT situation to nano-jump behind it and give it a broadside

Sathanas was there straight away in the mission.  The Vasudan Briefing you says they're going to "Send in" the Colossus.  That implys that the Colossus would be the one making the first aggressive actions.


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That said, tactical nano-jumps have NEVER been mentioned or used and are theferefore NOT CANON. Why didn't the Psamtik nano-jump the 8000 meters? Why don't the ship nano-jump closer to the node when they're running away insted of moving slowly at the node? Why didn't the Bastion nano-jump?

It's quite clear that jumping is used for BIG distances only (and by big I mean something like a distance between 2 planets)

The Bastion and Psamtik didn't nano-jump because they'd just jumped in and wouldn't have recharged their jump drives.  Theoretically its possible but tactically its suicide.
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Offline TrashMan

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Re: What the Shivans were doing at Capella... :o
Sathanas was there straight away in the mission.  The Vasudan Briefing you says they're going to "Send in" the Colossus.  That implys that the Colossus would be the one making the first aggressive actions.

I was refering to "Their Finest Hour".. the first one wasn't a real batlte anyway, with the detoothed sathanas..


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The Bastion and Psamtik didn't nano-jump because they'd just jumped in and wouldn't have recharged their jump drives.  Theoretically its possible but tactically its suicide.

It takes about a minute or so for an Orion to re-charge it's jump drives..the Psamtik jumped in and was going towards the portal.  It would take it 10 minutes or so to travel to it, or 1 minute to re-charge and make a nano-jump. theres nothing tacticly unfeasable or unwise about it.
It stood there for 2-3 minutes before the Sath destroyed it.

And the Bastion didn't just jump in. It was in-system fora while, making it's way towards the node while being escorted. It could have shortneed it's trip witha nano-jump by it didn't.Why?

Ergo, I can give you more examples from both games. If FS1, the Bastion persuing the Lucifer..no nano-jumps to close in fast and it had two opportunities to do that (Clash of Titans and hte mission where you race towards hte node)

It is clear that you can't jump anywhere you want. There are limitations. There are some minimal distances between two points...
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Offline Snail

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Re: What the Shivans were doing at Capella... :o
I think that maybe subspace nodes suck up all the gravity in the area or something like that so you can't make nanojumps around them. In Their Finest Hour, the Colossus was disabled. Besides, the reason the Psamtik went wonky and jumped so far from the Knossos 2 was because the Portal had messed up their sensors.

 

Offline Hades

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Re: What the Shivans were doing at Capella... :o
The Nebula also messes with sensors to. :P
[22:29] <sigtau> Hello, #hard-light?  I'm trying to tell a girl she looks really good for someone who doesn't exercise.  How do I word that non-offensively?
[22:29] <RangerKarl|AtWork> "you look like a big tasty muffin"
----
<batwota> wouldn’t that mean that it’s prepared to kiss your ass if you flank it :p
<batwota> wow
<batwota> KILL

 

Offline Snail

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Re: What the Shivans were doing at Capella... :o
Yes, but the Psamtik said something about the Knossos interfering with their jump. Bouncing them somehow.

 

Offline TrashMan

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Re: What the Shivans were doing at Capella... :o
I think that maybe subspace nodes suck up all the gravity in the area or something like that so you can't make nanojumps around them. In Their Finest Hour, the Colossus was disabled. Besides, the reason the Psamtik went wonky and jumped so far from the Knossos 2 was because the Portal had messed up their sensors.

1. ENGINES disabled...not the jump drives...alltouhg they sometimes seem linked.
IIRC, command told the Collie to jump out of there and they responded that they will stay (that means the jump drive was still in tact)

2. FS1, the mission where youre cathiching up with the lucifer? That Typhon jump in right above the node.
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Offline Hades

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Re: What the Shivans were doing at Capella... :o
In FreeSpace 1-2 they do nano jump.When something arrives from empty space that is a nano jump.Like the first mission.The Psamtik nano jumped.
[22:29] <sigtau> Hello, #hard-light?  I'm trying to tell a girl she looks really good for someone who doesn't exercise.  How do I word that non-offensively?
[22:29] <RangerKarl|AtWork> "you look like a big tasty muffin"
----
<batwota> wouldn’t that mean that it’s prepared to kiss your ass if you flank it :p
<batwota> wow
<batwota> KILL

 

Offline Snail

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Re: What the Shivans were doing at Capella... :o
In FreeSpace 1-2 they do nano jump.When something arrives from empty space that is a nano jump.Like the first mission.The Psamtik nano jumped.

No, a nanojump is a tiny jump within the same mission boundries.

 

Offline Harbinger of DOOM

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Re: What the Shivans were doing at Capella... :o
Now i've gotten depressed...why did you have to bring the big rip thingy out.....???


Wait.....I wont live that long.......oh well.....nothing for me to worry about then eh....!
Yeah, but what about your soul?! Your soul will get schmushed just like living matter!
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Offline Kie99

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Re: What the Shivans were doing at Capella... :o
Sathanas was there straight away in the mission.  The Vasudan Briefing you says they're going to "Send in" the Colossus.  That implys that the Colossus would be the one making the first aggressive actions.

I was refering to "Their Finest Hour".. the first one wasn't a real batlte anyway, with the detoothed sathanas..

Would have just been delaying the inevitable.
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The Bastion and Psamtik didn't nano-jump because they'd just jumped in and wouldn't have recharged their jump drives.  Theoretically its possible but tactically its suicide.

It takes about a minute or so for an Orion to re-charge it's jump drives..the Psamtik jumped in and was going towards the portal.  It would take it 10 minutes or so to travel to it, or 1 minute to re-charge and make a nano-jump. theres nothing tacticly unfeasable or unwise about it.
It stood there for 2-3 minutes before the Sath destroyed it.

Knossos intefered which was why it emerged 10 klicks away

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And the Bastion didn't just jump in. It was in-system fora while, making it's way towards the node while being escorted. It could have shortneed it's trip witha nano-jump by it didn't.Why?

It had been stripped out and filled with Meson Bombs.

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Ergo, I can give you more examples from both games. If FS1, the Bastion persuing the Lucifer..no nano-jumps to close in fast and it had two opportunities to do that (Clash of Titans and hte mission where you race towards hte node)

It is clear that you can't jump anywhere you want. There are limitations. There are some minimal distances between two points...

Put it down to Jump Drives taking longer to recharge in FS1.
"You shot me in the bollocks, Tim"
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Offline TrashMan

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Re: What the Shivans were doing at Capella... :o
Would have just been delaying the inevitable.

Isn't that what they were trying to do? Avoid dying..and making it as haard on the other guy as possible?
Or buying the Bastion as much time as possible? Nano-jumping would surely drag the battle longer, so wouldn't that be the perfect way to buy the Bastion time?

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Knossos intefered which was why it emerged 10 klicks away
8 klicks..but granted


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It had been stripped out and filled with Meson Bombs.

It still had jump drives..have you seen the ani at all? It jumped and detonated INSIDE subspace...as did the Neried

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Ergo, I can give you more examples from both games. If FS1, the Bastion persuing the Lucifer..no nano-jumps to close in fast and it had two opportunities to do that (Clash of Titans and hte mission where you race towards hte node)

It is clear that you can't jump anywhere you want. There are limitations. There are some minimal distances between two points...

Put it down to Jump Drives taking longer to recharge in FS1.

absolutely NO proof whatsoever...
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Offline jr2

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Re: What the Shivans were doing at Capella... :o
Hmm, ok, my theory:

In-system jumps are basically the same as inter-system jumps, they rely on existing 'wormhole' or subspace tunnels.  So, you have to use your Nav subsystem, find a node that is stable enough to lock onto, that also has an egress point to close to your destination.  Notice that wings warp in next to each other... ergo, they use the same subspace tunnel, but open individual portals by which they access them.  Once found, your subspace drive stabilizes and opens the node, and then your engines push you into the node (which is why, without engines, you can't jump). 

Inter-system jumps rely on much larger and much more stable jump nodes that cannot possibly be stabilized by a ship (unless perhaps it is Shivan tech); therefore, they have to be stable enough to use without stabilizing; you only have to open one end and enter it.

Also perhaps affecting this is that if you notice, the Knossos stabilizes a jump node, so much that when it is destroyed, the node still exists... or that was a side effect of the destruction.  So, if one ship stabilizes a node for in-system jumps and uses it, it should remain open for awhile, and other ships can use it too.  If it collapses, the other ship just has to lock onto another node that opens into the same vicinity.  Just my theory... basically, in-system nodes form and collapse all the time, and jump drives lock onto and stabilize them for use by a ship.  Inter-system nodes are much bigger, and form and collapse at a slower rate, given their size.  (This solves the mystery nodes to Sol, I think... the other ones were close to collapse, but naturally would have lasted a long time, but the Lucy's blowing up half in subspace affected them, because they open into the same vicinity as the node the Lucy used, and the Lucy was half-in, half-out.)

 

Offline Snail

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Re: What the Shivans were doing at Capella... :o
Jr2, EXCELLENT theory. It also explains why one of your wingmen say "Subspace node activated" when they depart. :D

Can I adopt that for my own campaign?

 

Offline Kie99

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Re: What the Shivans were doing at Capella... :o
Would have just been delaying the inevitable.

Isn't that what they were trying to do? Avoid dying..and making it as haard on the other guy as possible?
Or buying the Bastion as much time as possible? Nano-jumping would surely drag the battle longer, so wouldn't that be the perfect way to buy the Bastion time?

Bastion was on the other side of the system.  It was disabled anyway, that mission is....strange.

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It had been stripped out and filled with Meson Bombs.

It still had jump drives..have you seen the ani at all? It jumped and detonated INSIDE subspace...as did the Neried

Yes, but its unknown whether it had a one shot drive installed like the Hermes, which would take up less space.

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Ergo, I can give you more examples from both games. If FS1, the Bastion persuing the Lucifer..no nano-jumps to close in fast and it had two opportunities to do that (Clash of Titans and hte mission where you race towards hte node)

It is clear that you can't jump anywhere you want. There are limitations. There are some minimal distances between two points...

Put it down to Jump Drives taking longer to recharge in FS1.

absolutely NO proof whatsoever...
[/quote]

No, no proof, its just conjecture.  But the whole idea of nano-jumping would explain why nobody's ever thought of ambushing a Sathanas or a Ravana with a few destroyers and corvettes from behind.
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Offline karajorma

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Re: What the Shivans were doing at Capella... :o
For once Trashman I agree 100% with you on a subject.

I've seen no evidence whatsoever in the FS2 campaign that nanojumping is even possible and I agree with Trashman that there are several times when you might expect a ship to do it and it doesn't.
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Offline TrashMan

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Re: What the Shivans were doing at Capella... :o
Bastion was on the other side of the system.  It was disabled anyway, that mission is....strange.

Yes..an by drawing the shivans attention to itself, the Collossus was buying it time. Why the Colossus was disabeld I do not know, but it could clearly jump. Normal engines (fusion drives) and jump drives are not the same..


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It still had jump drives..have you seen the ani at all? It jumped and detonated INSIDE subspace...as did the Neried
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Yes, but its unknown whether it had a one shot drive installed like the Hermes, which would take up less space.

Hermes is an escape pod...who sez it has a one-shot jump drive anyway? And it's not like thaere's lack of room in an Orion..
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Offline Snail

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Re: What the Shivans were doing at Capella... :o
Nope, you need engines to jump. If you are disabled, your jump drive works not.

 

Offline TrashMan

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Re: What the Shivans were doing at Capella... :o
I don't see them tied directly..at least not with all ships..

I mean, the Collie was able to jump in their Final Hour (but it didn't).

"Colossus, we're pulling you out. Engage your subspace drive."

 "Follow your orders Colossus, jump out of there now!"



Then again that Demon in Barebaiting wouldn't jump if you disabled it.
I guess it's up to a mission designer but it could go both ways.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2007, 04:52:14 pm by TrashMan »
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Offline Hades

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Re: What the Shivans were doing at Capella... :o
Seconded.The only time you see nano jumps is in Inferno R1.(Which has a bad story IMO).
[22:29] <sigtau> Hello, #hard-light?  I'm trying to tell a girl she looks really good for someone who doesn't exercise.  How do I word that non-offensively?
[22:29] <RangerKarl|AtWork> "you look like a big tasty muffin"
----
<batwota> wouldn’t that mean that it’s prepared to kiss your ass if you flank it :p
<batwota> wow
<batwota> KILL