[Goober5000]

Indeed.  One of the reasons the installer is taking so long is the amount of bulletproofing that needs to be done so that it's suitable for use by the general public.

[hypercast52]

hope it all happens soon so i can play the new Jad. but on a unrelated but still related note...last time i used tureys i was able to get 3.6.14 and i think the RC for 3.7 so maybe it is being updated?

[General Battuta]

You can install JAD without using any kind of fancy installer.

[tommy1986]

i don't think somebody is talking about standalone
rather a case of reducing a noobs usual way of installing stuff from:
- install fs2
- read through confusing instructions, get an up to date launcher and copy all the files by hand
- read through confusing instructions, get an up to date version of fso and copy all the files by hand
- read through even more confusing instructions, get the up to date mediavps (several seperate downloads, a noob will have no idea what he needs)
- select the exe and mod you want to use (read: mediavps) in the launcher
- have crashes because you installed freespace into a directory with a too long file path

to:
- install fs2
- install everything fso from one .exe, and be ready to go for playing with the latest stable fso and the latest mediavps
 (the installer should come with a BIG warning that freespace can crash from too long file paths)

(1) was **EXACTLY** my experience with my current, 2 month old install.
And I had installed FSO previously! A couple of years ago, but still - I already knew what the MediaVPs were.

To me, this issue takes precedence over nice graphics, scripting, AI, upgraded models, etc.
If we cant get new people playing fairly easily and quickly, then whats the point?

BH

I agree!!!!!

If growing the community is a goal, the installation process is the most important step. Think of the foreign people with lame English literacy. I myself - as an Austrian speaking a quite good English - had a hard time with the manual install, since there is no automation available at the time. I'm not speaking of translation. I think the most common FS player (from whereever) is able to understand the game and to handle a step-by-step windows-installer in English.

Happy new year
tom

[Luis Dias]

Bah I've regarded this issue as a big ****ing mess for years now. My strategy to get friends playing this is a lot more illegal and all the **** you can throw at me (and I won't correct you on the morality of it), but at least it functions. I just make a copy of my FS2 folder (though a lot simpler and leaner w/out the rubbish I have) and give them a pen with it all. I've tried the "correct" way with them, but the shenanigans are so large and so paramount that even with the astonishing level of voluntarism and generosity of all the forum's people with errors and bad installations they just quit the next day. As far as they can tell, it's just not worthy that much trouble, and they go back to play GTA or other ****. And I can't blame them. Who can?

[MatthTheGeek]

I can.

[Hellzed]

This is how I see things :
https://www.dropbox.com/s/801qnuxhhdrsnz2/hlpcat.zip
(unpack the HTML page and its data directory somewhere, and open it in any modern browser)
(imagine this page with a HLP header and a menu bar to select a mod type : "Great War/FS2/Post Capella/TCs...")

Next generation FreeSpace mod database should enable a "click & play" feature. Browse mods as a slide show, click "play !", and FreeSpace 2 will launch (using the latest options profile used with selected mod). If the mod is not installed, an installer launches, downloads the mod files, and then we resume FS2 launch process.

What would need to be done :
- a HTML+CSS template to present mods.
- a simple mod database referencing a nice HD screenshot, mod title, author, mod description, size...
- a PHP script to generate the final pages.
- a tool to launch when a fs2:// protocol link is clicked, launch the game if the mod is installed, launch the installer if it is not installed.

No need for a unified installer/launcher. Just a modern browser would do the trick.
The drawback is that users would have to be online to launch FreeSpace with this method.
The workaround is a standalone webkit/Qt window and a locally cached list of mods.

[The E]

I can.

For what do you blame them, exactly? For wanting to play a game that they remember from ages ago, or that they read about, with minimal issues? For being interested in the stuff we've produced, but not in learning how to tame a game and its various technical issues?

[MatthTheGeek]

For not be willing to take 5min to follow simple instructions.

[The E]

It's not 5 minutes, and it's not that simple. The number of people willing to invest the mental work necessary to read, understand and follow the guides is not that large, and even a good portion of that set will resent having to do it just to have a bit of fun with a game.

Games, IMHO, should not be made for power users. Games should be easy to access, easy to get going, and easy to patch. Right now, FSO is only partially there. Demanding that your audience engage in what is for all intents and purposes the digital equivalent of housekeeping is not going to make said audience want to play the game.

I don't know about you, but I want the maximum number of people to be able to enjoy this game and all the stuff we've produced over the years. I want the install process to be as easy as "Step 1: Run GOG installer, Step 2: Download this executable and let it patch the game up for maximum awesome".

Personally, I am frequently astonished at the amount of problems some people have to get this thing going. But then I remember that most of them probably do not have to deal with Computers everyday, or even care about learning how to operate them properly. And that's totally fine! Just as knowing how to write a novel should not be a prerequisite for enjoying a book, knowing how to mod FS2 should not be a prerequisite for enjoying the game.

[Luis Dias]

I can.

Blame them away, see if they care one yota. These are smart people, and they are very fast at calculating the sort of work it's ahead of them. First they will have to understand the kind of problem they are facing, then they will have to understand if the solutions that are sort of given in a fragmented, scattershot way have any basis in current reality, if they still work or not, what webpage giving instructions is reliable or not, and what kinds of mistakes they are allowed to do or not.

What is a "launcher" (remember we are not in the nineties anymore), now you telling me I shouldn't download 3.7.0, the stable latest build if I want to have the latest mediavps? Openal? wtf? What are these words you are talking about?

I had enough of this, let me play this other game that seems a lot more 2014, fun and easy to install. See? I just need to click "Install" and press "accept". That was easy. Now bang bang here I go! And stop whining how fun that 90s game is. It's from the bloody 90s, can't be that good anyway. It's just too much work, and that kind of **** I do already too much of it during workhours. I want to have some fun, not bloody scream at the screen.

[General Battuta]

I don't think there can be any reasonable doubt that the FSO install process should be:

1. Press 'Download FreeSpace Open'
2. Press 'Install FreeSpace Open'
3. Click 'FreeSpace Open Launcher'

[OverDhill]

Well as a retired IT professional that recently decided to get back into space flight sims I can tell you the  install process for FS2 Open is anything but clear and straight forward. There are so many old threads in this forum and changes over the years as to what to do and how to do it you can spend weeks searching and reading. I have tried to get some friends (some of which are also IT) to try this out and when they see the mess they pass.

I have also recently gotten back into flight sims. I purchased IL-2 and was invited to join a squad. Well they have the right idea. Someone wrote an app that automatically updates and downloads and installs all patches and high resolutions mods.  No messing around. And since everyone's final install is the same (same mods) playing together online becomes much easier.

I totally agree with those that feel this is priority #1. I applaud all those that have worked on this project and its campaigns (quite amazing really) but unless you come up with a better approach to installing and upgrading you will never see the full extent of users who would get to use all your hard work.

There seems to be a growing interest in space sims once again. Some of these projects are years away. Others really do pale compared to what you guys have done. Others will have a bad business model (like free to play but it will cost you hundreds in the end).  Freespace 2 Open is there now.

Here are some of the things I feel need to be address to make Freespace 2 Open attractive to the general sim player.

1) An automatic installer and updater (this is the 21st century not the 90's)

2) Build in cockpits

3) Fix the joystick limitations so it can handle more advanced setups without the need for PPJoy

4) Something like Hyperlobby to support online play

Thanks again for all the hard work. It would be great to see even more people enjoying it.
 

[Flipside]

I will admit, I haven't installed FS2 on my new computer, whilst I'm sure I could figure out the install process, as I've done it enough times before, it's just the thought of taking on the whole thing again that puts me off.

I think the problem may be that the launcher was developed alongside the code and media updates, so it changed to adapt to their needs rather than initially having been written to support them, and that resulted in a method that feels 'clunky', and I can understand how that might put potential new players off.

[Hellzed]

So, any criticism about some web based installation/modding/launcher experience ?

[attachment deleted by an evil time traveler]

[General Battuta]

If you post a candidate I'll happily give my thoughts.

[mjn.mixael]

Only if it works on more than just Linux.

[m!m]

Only if it works on more than just Linux.

If I understand it correctly it is just a web page so it will work anywhere where you can have a web browser but we will still need some sort of installer tool that can handle the special protocol.

[Hellzed]

That's my issue. The only languages I know are Bash and php. I know some HTML and CSS. But I can't say I'm really good at coding in general.

@m!m: exactly !
Hopefully, the utility script called after clicking the fs2:// protocol links would not be a full installer/launcher. It could hook within wxlauncher for launching the game, and a real installer for installing the game files and the mods. The only real task of this piece of code would be to detect if a mod is installed or not and pass the right arguments to the right software.
wxlauncher would need to have a hook allowing to bypass most of its GUI and skip directly to its fs2_open arguments flags parsing before launching the game.

Of course, it does not do anything to solve the initial install issue...

[karajorma]

I always wanted the launcher to do all this. Having only one entry point to the game simplifies things a lot.

Basically have the launcher work as the online installer for mods. Make it capable of accepting 7z files too and we solve the problem of people who don't want an online installer.