[m!m]

Technically we wouldn't need much, some sort of mod repository in an easily machine-readable format (json (probably the best if we want a web interface), xml, ...) and an additional wxLauncher tab. On installation wxLauncher could also register itself as the handler for our fs2:// protocol and handle mod installation from the web that way.

[karajorma]

I proposed the idea years ago but everyone ran off and did things their way. Which got us into the mess we're in now. If we're going to do something, I strongly suggest we get our **** together with a plan we all agree on first and only then start coding.

[Goober5000]

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I'll say again that the Installer really is almost ready.

I know people will respond that it's been years without anything released yet, and they'd be correct, but I'll remind them that people said the same thing about ST:R.

[Spoon]

On a scale of urgency I would rate the release of a proper launcher slightly above that of ST:R 

[deathspeed]

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I'll say again that the Installer really is almost ready.

I know people will respond that it's been years without anything released yet, and they'd be correct, but I'll remind them that people said the same thing about ST:R.

GOOBER ROCKS!!
oh wait that's the other thread where I'm supposed to use caplock.

[Sarkoth]

On a scale of urgency I would rate the release of a proper launcher slightly above that of ST:R 

Very slightly. If you consider an increment of a quintilliontude to be marginal.

[OverDhill]

Well there have to come a point where you need to draw a line in the sand and say the development and changes are frozen then work on upgrading the better campaigns to use those changes. This falls into the reason why people shy away from all this. This campaign only works with this Build and or this MediaVPs. Its great to see all these addons but there needs to be some order to all of it. It might not be the first priority but it is directly related to standardizing and polishing the experience for new comers.

[Bobboau]

I don't think there can be any reasonable doubt that the FSO install process should be:

1. Press 'Download FreeSpace Open'
2. Press 'Install FreeSpace Open'
3. Click 'FreeSpace Open Launcher'

unfortunately it cannot be unless you are assuming a preexisting FS2 install.

[MatthTheGeek]

There is no possible way to avoid assuming a pre-existing FS2 install.

[karajorma]

Yes there is.

Like I said years ago the installer should be able to send people to GOG or point them in the direction of the standalone games. Expecting new users to know they need to pay to download the game from GOG by themselves, THEN come to HLP is a rather unnecessary hurdle.

[MatthTheGeek]

Of course, but you still can't avoid assuming a pre-existing install before installing the MVPs and MVPs-based mods.

[Hellzed]

Any FreeSpace 2 installer should either :
- ask where GOG version is installed before upgrading the install, and point to GOG to buy the game first if it isn't installed anywhere
- set up a base install with fs2_open and launcher builds, and if its missing retail data, point to GOG.

The second option is much better for Linux and OS X users since they can't install a native version from GOG (and the FS2 installer has to use innoextract to get retail data).

(I have attached a screenshot of how I handled this issue in the bash installer I made)

[attachment deleted by an evil time traveler]

[The E]

I don't think so. I think the best approach is to offer to install any TC available, and offer the option of upgrading an existing FS2 install (and if no FS2 install can be found, exit), not create a situation where the user may end up confused over whether or not everything's fine. I can just see the support posts that would come from that: "Hey, I used this installer thing, and now I get an error that says 'Web Cursor bitmap not found, this may be due to you not having FS2 installed', what's up with that?"

[Kopachris]

One solution: Bundle innoextract with the installer.  Ask the user to select their GOG installer, with a short explanation about how FS2_Open works on top of FS2 rather than instead of and instructions and a link to GOG's website if they haven't downloaded it yet.  Would also have the option to select their FS2 install directory if they already have it installed.

[The E]

That also works, I suppose. The only thing I really want to avoid is a situation where the installer downloads FS2 mods without having verified that FS2 is actually installed.

[Hellzed]

@Kopachris :
I was thinking about that. Currently, the script uses the distro's own packaging system to install innoextract if it is not installed yet (It works on Ubuntu but I'm missing info for other distros). I'll change that to download a distro agnostic version of innoextract and store it with the config files of the script.
Maybe a fully unified installer would even use innoextract on windows.

Currently, to avoid redundancy with Goober's installer, I'm looking into splitting the script into small functions, port the whole thing to python to prepare windows compatibility, and dropping the "pseudo GUI" thing.
My ultimate goal would be to write a cross-platform command line utility for managing FS2 installs with a syntax similar to apt-get. I don't know if anyone would be interested, but sounds fun to me.

Code: [Select]

$ fs2tool --install-from-gog <your GOG installer>
$ fs2tool --install-from-cd <your drive with retail CD>
$ fs2tool --add-mod <mod descriptor or mod descriptor url>
$ fs2tool --update-mod <installed mod name>
$ fs2tool --uninstall-mod <installed mod name>
$ fs2tool --remove-mod <installed mod name>
$ fs2tool --get-binary [stable|nightly]

[Kopachris]

Hellzed, I think we have similar goals, although mine are a bit more extensive.  If you already know Python or can learn it fairly easily, I have some ideas of my own I've been thinking about, using PyInstaller to package installer, mod manager, and innoextract into a single binary.  Care to collab?

[The E]

Uhhhh

guys

While I applaud your enthusiasm, you are missing a few important points here:
1. We do not want multiple ways of achieving the same goal. We especially do not want multiple infrastructures that we have to maintain.
2. The end goal is to integrate wxLauncher and the installer, so that the interface to getting FS mods installed is the same across all platforms

[Hellzed]

@Kopachris :
At the moment, I would prefer to wait before starting anything.
There are 3 big unanswered questions :
- How well do Goober's installer and wxlauncher integrate (if they integrate at all, apart from sharing the same FS2 directory) ?
- How does Goober's installer manage downloads ? It will be a repository, but that's the only thing I know.
- How does it handle GOG install ?

@The E:
1) I do not host whole mods, only mod descriptors, files that take 5 minutes to create and 2 minutes to update, from mod release posts on the forum. Basically, it takes more from a manual install automated with a bash script than a "real" full blown installer as what's Goober is doing. Maintenance is only on my side, and once the script is stable, it will be a piece of cake to manage these small files.
Anyway, I hear what you mean, that's still a bit redundant.

2) That will be awesome when it's done. I have no intention to code something that does exactly the same thing. I wish I could hook into these pieces of software to come up with a nice web interface for managing FreeSpace using these tools. A bit in the way Steam does things : they both have a website and a client, and clicking "Play" in both interfaces launches the game in the same way.

[The E]

1) I do not host whole mods, only mod descriptors, files that take 5 minutes to create and 2 minutes to update, from mod release posts on the forum. Basically, it takes more from a manual install automated with a bash script than a "real" full blown installer as what's Goober is doing. Maintenance is only on my side, and once the script is stable, it will be a piece of cake to manage these small files.
Anyway, I hear what you mean, that's still a bit redundant.

Yeah, I understand that, but you do realize that you're setting yourself up to be the single point of failure for this whole venture, right? Way I would do it (note that I do not know how Goober's planning to solve this) would be to use the HLP wiki as the source for the mod metadata; a place I can be reasonably sure will exist for the foreseeable future.

2) That will be awesome when it's done. I have no intention to code something that does exactly the same thing. I wish I could hook into these pieces of software to come up with a nice web interface for managing FreeSpace using these tools. A bit in the way Steam does things : they both have a website and a client, and clicking "Play" in both interfaces launches the game in the same way.

Which gets me to the whole "install a web handler thingie". For several reasons, I really dislike this. Not the idea in theory, the idea is great, but the actual realities of it all, with all the security checks that have to be done to ensure that noone does bad things with it. I do realize that, in the grand gaming ecosystem of the internet, we're a very small community and as such less likely to be targeted than Steam for example, but I still dislike the idea of opening ourselves up to attack like that.

(This is probably paranoia on my end)