[deathfun]

I'm not sure how switching focus to the person themselves as opposed to what he said overall adds anything to the discussion

That anyone even considers anything said by Zoe Quinn as having an iota of truth in it is truly mind boggling to me. It's even ironic, given how we are supposed to be skeptic against ms paint screenshots against her but not her grabs.

It depends on how things are presented. I'm initially more skeptical with imgur uploads with MS Paint (which direct focus to things intended to make you see what you want to see) vs a couple pages of screenshots which doesn't have focus being directed by the poster

One acts as someone directing how to interpret an image, the other acts as someone explaining it without completely dissecting it allowing for the reader to take away their own little slice.

One of the "most prominent feminine figures of gaming" whose only contribution to the world was a written adventure game using an available engine (she didn't even code). I'm sure all the brilliant women in gaming coding and crafting and managing complex code, art and innovations must be thrilled that this psychopath is their front figure now.

Calling out a game for using an engine they didn't even code doesn't really say much. Plenty of people use existing engines instead of in-house ones. And those that either modify or build ground up, generally have a more significant team/resources to do it

The other bit being is perhaps those women don't see her as you have described. Hard to say, since I haven't heard much from them (yet, could be out there)


EDIT:

This thread has been putrefying for about fifteen pages now.  Can anyone give me a good reason why it should stay open?

Opinions, regardless of how they're presented, are interesting

[Grizzly]

So I was wrong. Thanks Deathfun.

[MP-Ryan]

Oh lord, I step away for two lousy days and look what happens... 4 pages behind...

No definition of "trivial" is offered on page 6.

See the whole series of posts on de minimis, which I have now referred you personally back to twice in this thread after their original posting.  I don't know if you simply haven't read them or don't understand them, so please follow up with anything you don't understand or want clarification on.

Including trivial examples limits her target audience to people who already agree with her.

You're going to need to explain the logic behind that one.

People who agree with her are already on board with the idea that those trivial examples represent actual sexism in games.  The broader audience is not, hence the amount of debate about those examples.

This is precisely why using trivial examples to make a key argument is a poor strategy and why I am critiquing her so strongly.  You don't see a problem with those examples because your ideology matches Sarkeesian's in this area - but that it not true of broader society.  That those trivial examples are sexism may be self-evident to you, but it isn't self-evident to the general population at large, which is why using them - if you're trying to convince the population at large and not the group of people who simply nods in agreement - is a spectacularly bad choice if she wants her critiques to actually foment change among all people who purchase and play games.

To use an analogy:  Someone makes a video about how human beings are bad for our planet.  One example is a picture of a coffee cup discarded on the side of a highway.  Another example is a person spraying weed killer in their yard.  A third example is someone driving their car.  Example 4 is the full IPCC report on climate change, example 5 is the impact of the coal industry on air, land, and water, and example six is a case study of oil spills into the ocean.  Which examples do you think are going to hurt your argument in the eyes of the general public, and how much unhelpful, distracting noise do you think will be generated as compared to if you just used the three strongest ones that most people don't directly identify with?

[Bobboau]

This thread has been putrefying for about fifteen pages now.  Can anyone give me a good reason why it should stay open?

because if you close it someone else will post another topic about it in a day or two pulling more people into it than if one huge unreadable topic got yet another post appended to the end of it.

worked for me, I was going to make a topic about the death of gamers a few days ago and this thread was here and I couldn't quite fit it in without forcing it, so I didn't say anything. giving people a place to talk about things they want to talk about prevents them from making a place. and as a general policy that I have seen in the chans "you may have ONE thread about this" tends to work well.

[Goober5000]

Well, maybe closing it will give people a chance to calm down, at least.