[Angreifer]

Yet another impressive episode. I'm not sure what I liked more, that Tyrol isn't Nicky's dad, or that "Hotdog" is. I guess it frees Tyrol of any commitments to the humans, so maybe we're going to see him embrace his Cylon side even more. I could see a split occuring between the Four, with Tori/Tyrol on the Cylon side and Anders/Tigh on the Human side. Hm...

The revolution that Gaeta and Zarek are cooking up sounds nasty. I almost think that Zarek is more of a scumbag than Baltar; at least when Baltar destroyed the human race, he wasn't fully aware of what he was doing. Zarek, on the other hand, almost seems to revel in causing chaos. Someone needs to push him out an airlock.

And yay for Roslin deciding to embrace the rest of her life! She's always been portrayed as a strong, indepent woman, and it's good to see her returning to her true nature. And it's about time Bill and her racked up. 

[IceFire]

I watched the webisodes but still...having a hard time with Gaeta's turn on everything.  Not that they didn't make it believable but just that he was willing to turn around so much and then, at least right now, keep going.  He's one of those few characters who seemed to be like a rock...but now with Earth being a wasteland he's totally changed.  Dee was the other character that we could count on and everyone knows what happened there.

[karajorma]

I don't think it was the thing with Earth so much as what happened to him during the webisodes that causes his change.

[foolfromhell]

I always suspected Tyrol wasnt Nicky's dad or that Tyrol wasnt really a Cylon. Cottle didnt use Nicky's blood to cure Roslin this time (and I assume Roslin's new cancer is now immune to Hera's blood)

[General Battuta]

It was odd to feel so disappointed in Roslin and Adama even when they (finally!) got around to hooking up.

Neither of them are carrying out their duties. Which is understandable, of course, and makes perfect sense; but it's still disappointing.

[Rian]

Gods, Roslin in this episode made me cringe. She’s more manic than really happy, and you can tell that she’s just inches away from a truly epic crash. It’s not really just a “find some happiness before I die” sort of thing, because Dee did that and was clearly much more genuine about it. I suppose that may bode well for Roslin snapping out of it at some point.

I would cheer for their hookup, (which has been way too damn long in coming) but I kind of hate them both right now.

Also, this Zarek/Gaeta business drives me crazy. Neither of their motivations is at all compelling to me (as I read it, mostly self-interest on Zarek’s part and pure bitterness on Gaeta’s) so I just find their plotting tiresome.

Tyrol and Hotdog were the only ones in the episode who didn’t make me grit my teeth. I don’t think Tyrol is going to give up on humanity, though, because he seems to be calming down and realizing that he still has a responsibility to his son, even though they’re not actually related. (The “I’ll be back when I sober up” remark.) Also, poor Hotdog.

edit – Also, the med tech seemed to be having some misgivings when Six was rhapsodizing about the survival of the Cylon Nation. Think there’s some conflict of interest brewing there?

[General Battuta]

It was clear that Ishay (is that the right spelling) the medtech was planning to do something about that Cylon baby. At least, I think so.

I don't mind the Gaeta/Zarek intrigue so long as it leads to some crazy mutiny shenanigans next week. Gaeta's motivation, at least, is plenty clear after the webisodes. He's been screwed over by a Cylon (Anders) who shot him in the leg and was then subsequently forgiven, and then screwed over by another Cylon (Sweet Eight) who he thought was his lover.

Roslin was definitely manic. The scene of her jogging made me wince. Believable, but urgh.

I don't think I disliked the episode - the writing was snappy, even if the plot didn't really cohere - but I'm ready for some action.

[Angelus]

One other thing, probably not important but still interesting, is that Adama takes pills.
It might be just vitamines, OR he has something serious, which could mean he is the dying leader.

The entire Gaeta turns evil plot is a bit...i don't know, i don't like it.
There will be some serious bloodshed the next episodes...

Spoiler:

...and from the teasers we saw, it seems that the Gaeta/ Zarek faction will succeed, at least they will arrest all the Cylons on Galactica.

[General Battuta]

Gaeta isn't turning 'evil.' Arguably, the people he's turning against have failed him.

Look, everything Gaeta (and even Zarek) said that episode made perfect sense. Roslin and Adama are sleeping together, they're making autocratic and arbitrary decisions, they're forcing the human race into an alliance with (of all things) the very Cylons that put them in this mess.

As ever on Galactica, the 'evil' side seems...pretty much justified.

Not to say that I don't still love Roslin and Adama. But I wish they'd get their crap together. They just seem very tired.

[Angelus]

Well, the "turn evil" thing is related to the conversation between Gaeta and Zarek.

[General Battuta]

Well, the "turn evil" thing is related to the conversation between Gaeta and Zarek.

It's still not turning evil -- he's stepping up to save the fleet from a pair of emotionally wrecked crazies. And he's justified. I mean, the Admiral and the President are sleeping with each other. A mutiny might very well be in order from his standpoint.

Of course, we as the audience know that Adama and Roslin are the 'good folks'. But Gaeta's position is almost more rational.

What did you guys think of Mary McDonnell's acting? At a few points I think she went a bit far, but maybe that was just right: she's uncomfortably euphoric. And she did have a couple brilliant spots.

This was a consummate setup episode, so I wasn't disappointed. I just really want it to be next Friday!

When did the effects on this show get so gorgeous? Some of the stock shots of Colonial One were just beautiful.

Bear McCreary introduced a new theme. I'm not sure if it's supposed to be 'Zarek's Theme' or a 'Rebellion Theme'.

[Angelus]

Well, the "turn evil" thing is related to the conversation between Gaeta and Zarek.

It's still not turning evil -- he's stepping up to save the fleet from a pair of emotionally wrecked crazies. And he's justified. I mean, the Admiral and the President are sleeping with each other, they're both behaving strangely -- a mutiny might very well be in order from his standpoint.

They all behave from the beginning like wrecked crazies, it was the request from the Cylons and the fact that Adama put Zarek into the Brigg that 'caused that decision to team up with Zarek ( and the things from the new webisodes, of course).

Saving the fleet by killing everyone who think, it's ok to team up with the Cylons, or at least isn't stupid enough to follow a one legged idiot and a moron who is only interested in himself, isn't evil?

[General Battuta]

Nope, not from some points of view. Others would disagree. Besides, the mutiny won't be about killing people -- he'll probably try to relieve Adama of command.

This is what Alessandro Juliani had to say with regards to his 'turning bad':

“Baddie? Who said anything about being a baddie? I mean, if resisting an alliance with a race of malevolent, deceitful robot-people responsible for the genocide of humankind, enforced by a bunch of ‘leaders’ who time and time again had proven to be completely misguided and hypocritical in their policies is bad…who wants to be good? If what you meant to ask was when did I find out that Felix was to assume the mantle of being the moral center of the show, then I believe it was during the filming of the now infamous ‘Stump Serenade’ that a certain Emmy-nominated writer who shall remain nameless first hinted at his heroic destiny.”

As for Zarek, this from Richard Hatch:

"In my opinion, I don’t know if we learn all that much more about Tom Zarek on a personal level; his backstory so to speak, but we do see just how strongly and passionately he feels about what he believes to be the hypocrisy of the Roslin/Adama regime and their condescending and arrogant attitude towards the opinions of the Council of the twelve, true democracy, which he feels no longer exists, and of himself in particular.   I believe we get to see that Roslin and Adama may be as flawed as they believe Tom Zarek is.”

And I must, reluctantly, concur -- much as I love those two.

[Rian]

It's still not turning evil -- he's stepping up to save the fleet from a pair of emotionally wrecked crazies. And he's justified. I mean, the Admiral and the President are sleeping with each other. A mutiny might very well be in order from his standpoint.

Of course, we as the audience know that Adama and Roslin are the 'good folks'. But Gaeta's position is almost more rational.

If this was actually Gaeta’s motivation, I might be more sympathetic. But my impression is that he’s at least partly driven by racialized hatred for the cylons, which he justifies with a few personal bad experiences. It’s not Adama’s political missteps that bother him so much as his willingness to come to an agreement with the cylons, and I don’t think that’s a rationally justified position.

I wouldn’t call him evil, because I don’t think this show ever lays things out that neatly and I don’t particularly want it to. But I think he’s at least as damaged as everyone else here, and he’s acting out of irrational desperation just like they are.

[General Battuta]

I don't think Gaeta's making the right choice. I think he thinks he's making the right choice, though. And I don't think he's at all evil.

His motivations aren't purely regarding the Cylons. As he says. "The world is frakked. It's upside down, and someone has to turn it rightside up." He may think the Cylons are the wrong direction, but they aren't the source of the problem.

Hrm. Racist? I don't think so. I think he believes the Cylons as a people are not a compatible ally for mankind, and that they're untrustworthy, deceitful, and mechanistically driven to achieve objectives. From his experiences, that's a justifiable position.

He clearly wasn't a racist when he fell for Sweet Eight, after all. If anything, he's learned the lesson that she was trying to teach him: in warfare you can't afford to be naive. You have to recognize and strike at your enemy. Probably a bad lesson, probably not what it will take to keep humanity going, but from his perspective...

He's certainly damaged (like everyone else), and I don't agree with his actions, but I have the benefit of being an audience member, rather than someone grappling with these problems in situ. I think what he's doing makes sense to him and a great many other people.

I mean, think about it. The leadership utterly failed. Threw away lives, ships, and civil liberties in the name of the hunt for Earth -- and that was a mirage. And now they want to turn to the Cylons in order to keep the status quo. A little creepy.

And then we get this:

"They found the tylium ship. Do you care?"

"Mm-mm."

"Neither do I."

Adorable, yes. But damn, these people should not be in charge of the entire human race at this moment.

So I can very much sympathize with his decisions.

Just rewatched the episode, by the way, and loved it (which I did not the first time.) Literary, thoughtful, and slow-paced. I'm definitely ready for some action, though.

[Rian]

“Toasters” is a racial epithet, in the context of the show. His catty little diatribe against Starbuck was racially charged, if you look at the references to Anders. He suddenly mistrusts Tigh, who has never shown signs of wavering in his loyalty, just because he’s a cylon. And the fact that he’s making these generalizations – that “cylons as a people...are untrustworthy, deceitful, and mechanistically driven to achieve objectives” – is arguably a sign of a racist perspective. (I mean, can you honestly imagine saying that about some subset of humans?) And the fact that he fell for the eight back on New Caprica isn’t really relevant, because I’m arguing that these attitudes are new, the product of his recent personal trauma. But that’s just my reading, and it’s clear that it’s not the only one.

*edit* Also, must you modify every post a million times?

[General Battuta]

Well, there's a fine line here between 'hating Cylons because they're Cylons' and 'hating Cylons because of the things they have done.' Or, even further, 'hating Cylons because of the things they have done, and then ascribing those things to their nature'. I'm not sure which category he falls into. If it's the latter, he's a racist, though he might call it justified.

Racism aside, I don't think that's his primary motivation. He and Zarek clearly think Adama and Roslin really are authoritarian nutters. I mean, look at this -- Adama fabricated evidence to blackmail Zarek. Never mind that the fabrications were probably accurate -- what happened to Adama's dedication to justice? Goes out the window as soon as Tom Zarek enters the picture.

As Zarek pointed out, Adama and Zarek really aren't very different. They do all the same things. Adama just wears a uniform.

[Angelus]

Gaeta should know better then that, knowing Athena ( or the fact that she CHOOSE to join the colonials ), and maybe the idea that there are probably more like her.

Ok, the things he learned from sweet eight might have been much to take.


I always like the character Gaeta, he reminds of Lennier from B5.
And the relationship Gaeta/ Baltar looked always like a twisted version of Lennier/ Delenn.

I don't like what he's doing right now, and judging from a scene from the trailers

Spoiler:

he will regret it later. The question is, how many of the main characters/ people in the fleet, will have to die, before he gets qualms/ comes to sanity again.

[General Battuta]

*headdesk*

Did you read anything I posted?

[Angelus]

Yes, and

*edit* Also, must you modify every post a million times?