Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Charismatic on January 02, 2012, 05:19:09 pm
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Will this be able to run FSO in all its glory, and C&C4?
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=7281738&CatId=5138
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That's not a laptop. :P
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That's not a laptop. :P
...unless he has the legs of a professional cyclist.
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Will this be able to run FSO in all its glory, and C&C4?
Well, no. Not with that GPU. I mean, it's probably going to be more or less fine (I'm using a Radeon 5470, which is the 5450's slightly bigger brother), and you should be able to run FS2 at acceptable framerates if you're not using shadow builds or play at full HD resolution. Not sure about C&C though. I can tell you that the 5470 with current drivers is powerful enough to run most current games, including DXHR and Skyrim. Not at full detail, obviously, but it'S still pretty enough.
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I'm still assuming that that was a link fail.
Regardless, I would highly recommend avoiding refurbished systems.
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I'm still assuming that that was a link fail.
Regardless, I would highly recommend avoiding refurbished systems.
I hate the "this" meme, but...
This.
OP, If you meant to say desktop, take a look at this: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/core-i5-overclock-performance-gaming,3097.html
Tom's Hardware usually has some pretty good budget builds.
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i have bigger issue with prebuilt desktops than i do with refurbished. and i feel compelled to warn you that C&C4 is horrendous. so horrendous that it in fact does not exist, much like the matrix sequels. it's not even worth pirating. if someone gives it to you as a gift, punch them in the face.
but if you're still determined to play it, i would imagine that anything that can run FSO can run it also, because it looks like ass. on top of being horrendous.
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i have bigger issue with prebuilt desktops than i do with refurbished. and i feel compelled to warn you that C&C4 is horrendous. so horrendous that it in fact does not exist, much like the matrix sequels. it's not even worth pirating. if someone gives it to you as a gift, punch them in the face.
but if you're still determined to play it, i would imagine that anything that can run FSO can run it also, because it looks like ass. on top of being horrendous.
I couldn't agree more. Pretty much anything after Red Alert 2 was just an insult to the glory that was once Command and Conquer. Generals was okay but it didn't really need to bother with the C&C label, it was pretty much a new IP.
I don't know if the prebuilt comment was directed at my post but if it was, Tom's Hardware baselines aren't prebuilt, they're basically a blueprint. I hate prebuilt rigs, too. They tend to use crappy parts from crappy manufacturers, have cramped cases with terrible airflow, have woeful stock cooling abilities, bare minimum power supply voltage, and basically no room for upgrades, on top of essentially paying full price for Windows (not advocating pirating it but there are ways to get it without paying full price, I know there's a thread on here somewhere about it) and getting saddled with crapware. Of course, I'm preaching to the choir. :P
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I couldn't agree more. Pretty much anything after Red Alert 2 was just an insult to the glory that was once Command and Conquer. Generals was okay but it didn't really need to bother with the C&C label, it was pretty much a new IP.
I don't know if the prebuilt comment was directed at my post but if it was, Tom's Hardware baselines aren't prebuilt, they're basically a blueprint. I hate prebuilt rigs, too. They tend to use crappy parts from crappy manufacturers, have cramped cases with terrible airflow, have woeful stock cooling abilities, bare minimum power supply voltage, and basically no room for upgrades, on top of essentially paying full price for Windows (not advocating pirating it but there are ways to get it without paying full price, I know there's a thread on here somewhere about it) and getting saddled with crapware. Of course, I'm preaching to the choir. :P
I hate the "this" meme, but...
This.
Woo, C/P responce, thanks for saving me time :D
Ya, I would avoid black-box (prebuilt) at all costs unless you don't know computers and need the warranty. I would avoid refurbished ones even more, as that means black-box that something broke in and a shorter warranty.
The comp on the tom's link looks good, but I twitch a little when I see that 430W PSU next to that 6870. I know PSUCalc says it should only take 375W, but it still feels a bit weak, and what if you get another 6870 for crossfire?
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i have bigger issue with prebuilt desktops than i do with refurbished. and i feel compelled to warn you that C&C4 is horrendous. so horrendous that it in fact does not exist, much like the matrix sequels. it's not even worth pirating. if someone gives it to you as a gift, punch them in the face.
but if you're still determined to play it, i would imagine that anything that can run FSO can run it also, because it looks like ass. on top of being horrendous.
I couldn't agree more. Pretty much anything after Red Alert 2 was just an insult to the glory that was once Command and Conquer. Generals was okay but it didn't really need to bother with the C&C label, it was pretty much a new IP.
I don't know if the prebuilt comment was directed at my post but if it was, Tom's Hardware baselines aren't prebuilt, they're basically a blueprint. I hate prebuilt rigs, too. They tend to use crappy parts from crappy manufacturers, have cramped cases with terrible airflow, have woeful stock cooling abilities, bare minimum power supply voltage, and basically no room for upgrades, on top of essentially paying full price for Windows (not advocating pirating it but there are ways to get it without paying full price, I know there's a thread on here somewhere about it) and getting saddled with crapware. Of course, I'm preaching to the choir. :P
my comment was on the link in the first post. i didn't even click on yours :P.
as for C&C, imo they were all fine until 4. i was never one of the rabid C&C universe fans, and generals was the first one i played anyway, so that never bothered me. i really like the more realistic/modern setting. i was hoping for another in the series to be honest. i played the RA3 demo, and while it didn't grab me, it didn't seem that bad. i just never really bothered to invest the time to get to know it. the graphics were rather horrid though. i'm not sure just why the hell they would do it like that.
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I couldn't agree more. Pretty much anything after Red Alert 2 was just an insult to the glory that was once Command and Conquer. Generals was okay but it didn't really need to bother with the C&C label, it was pretty much a new IP.
I don't know if the prebuilt comment was directed at my post but if it was, Tom's Hardware baselines aren't prebuilt, they're basically a blueprint. I hate prebuilt rigs, too. They tend to use crappy parts from crappy manufacturers, have cramped cases with terrible airflow, have woeful stock cooling abilities, bare minimum power supply voltage, and basically no room for upgrades, on top of essentially paying full price for Windows (not advocating pirating it but there are ways to get it without paying full price, I know there's a thread on here somewhere about it) and getting saddled with crapware. Of course, I'm preaching to the choir. :P
I hate the "this" meme, but...
This.
Woo, C/P responce, thanks for saving me time :D
Ya, I would avoid black-box (prebuilt) at all costs unless you don't know computers and need the warranty. I would avoid refurbished ones even more, as that means black-box that something broke in and a shorter warranty.
The comp on the tom's link looks good, but I twitch a little when I see that 430W PSU next to that 6870. I know PSUCalc says it should only take 375W, but it still feels a bit weak, and what if you get another 6870 for crossfire?
Eh, it's intended to be $600, it may not be some cheap Acer crapbox but it's still a budget rig for sure. I posted it because I'm guessing the OP is working on a limited budget since he or she was checking out refurbished stuff. Tom's Hardware has pretty extensive benchmarking on their builds so it doesn't sound like they had any problems with the power, even overclocking the 6870 a bit. But, if the headroom is still uncomfortable, CoolerMaster 500W is $45.99 on NewEgg while the one listed with the build is $45. Parts change prices and go on sale all the time so I'm guessing if one wanted to actually build this, one could change up the parts a bit. Also I haven't really looked at every part on the build, because I'm in the process of building my own rig atm, but I don't think the motherboard does Crossfire...again, $600 build, it's not gonna have THAT much room for upgrades. Building my rig, I found I had the choice of building a $900 setup or a $1200 setup...the specs were the same out of the gate, really, but paying a few hundred bucks more I got a fully modular PSU, liquid cooling, and a whole hell of a lot of room to add stuff. Building these things is fun. :P
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as for C&C, imo they were all fine until 4. i was never one of the rabid C&C universe fans, and generals was the first one i played anyway, so that never bothered me. i really like the more realistic/modern setting. i was hoping for another in the series to be honest. i played the RA3 demo, and while it didn't grab me, it didn't seem that bad. i just never really bothered to invest the time to get to know it. the graphics were rather horrid though. i'm not sure just why the hell they would do it like that.
Another one (http://www.commandandconquer.com/en/games/bygameid/cncgenerals2) is in the making actually. Not sure if it'll be any good though.
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when i saw that i got all excited for a minute. then i saw something at the bottom of the screen that reminded me.... origin. **** that. if origin hasn't been dropped by the time this comes out, i'm not getting it.
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I did mean desktop. And since that model was unavailable i went and purchased this, after a long and narrow search. I don't know PCs enough to get a custom built one.
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Asus+-+Essentio+Desktop+/+AMD+A-Series+Processor+/+8GB+Memory+/+1TB+Hard+Drive/3237058.p?id=1218388673178&skuId=3237058
I looked up the model number Asus Essentio CM1740-04 and found it had a extremely low wattage, but as far as i could tell it was a decent PC.
Any comments on it?
Can it run FSO with decent details/graphics?
Also, how can C&C 4 be horrendous? Iv never seen a bad CNC game. Red Alert 3 was not my style but it was the style and cartoon graphics that made it less attractive. Anyone got any links to back up their CNC remarks?
Whats origin?
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You might find this site (http://www.lenscrafters.com/) helpful when purchasing computers in the future. :p
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I did mean desktop. And since that model was unavailable i went and purchased this, after a long and narrow search. I don't know PCs enough to get a custom built one.
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Asus+-+Essentio+Desktop+/+AMD+A-Series+Processor+/+8GB+Memory+/+1TB+Hard+Drive/3237058.p?id=1218388673178&skuId=3237058
I looked up the model number Asus Essentio CM1740-04 and found it had a extremely low wattage, but as far as i could tell it was a decent PC.
Any comments on it?
Can it run FSO with decent details/graphics?
Also, how can C&C 4 be horrendous? Iv never seen a bad CNC game. Red Alert 3 was not my style but it was the style and cartoon graphics that made it less attractive. Anyone got any links to back up their CNC remarks?
Whats origin?
If I had to guess, I would say you could probably play FSO with mediavps and most things on with that APU, the problem comes from that while they were kind enough to put 8GB in it, they put 8gb of DDR3 1333... the APU series runs much much better with DDR3 1600 or better due to the graphics card having to share a memory bus with the CPU (being on one chip). The fact its basicly a 2.4ghz Athlon II x4 doesn't help things, as FSO is very CPU bound, and only able to use one core. I would not expect to play WiH with all the pretty settings and a smooth framerate on that box, and nothing short of a CPU upgrade will fix that.
Simply put: Ya, it will play FSO, just dont expect it to max out everything.
You might find this site (http://www.lenscrafters.com/) helpful when purchasing computers in the future. :p
The case design is clean. If you buy an OEM box for looks, then glasses isn't all you need :lol:
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Also, how can C&C 4 be horrendous? Iv never seen a bad CNC game. Red Alert 3 was not my style but it was the style and cartoon graphics that made it less attractive. Anyone got any links to back up their CNC remarks?
Whats origin?
Origin is EA's latest brainstorm - it's a steam-clone with all the width and most of the depth stripped out, that only works for EA games, is required for all (new) EA games, and has to be running, with an active connection, even if you purchased through a different service and are only in single-player.
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Its' equivalent to Athlon 2 quad core? Dam i didn't know that. I was hoping it would be on par with the Phenom 2.
Is the difference between the 1333 and 1600 really that big?
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Its' equivalent to Athlon 2 quad core? Dam i didn't know that. I was hoping it would be on par with the Phenom 2.
Is the difference between the 1333 and 1600 really that big?
Considering I'm currently running an Athlon II x4 620 as my primary desktop/gaming system, I can say right off the bat/from experience with other builds that the A8 is faster; it's based off an optimized Phenom II core, and keeps up quite nicely with the Phenom II parts.
As a side note, for the most part I've not run in to too many slowdowns on the Athlon anyways. WiH more or less maxed out (admittedly the initial release) at times made it dip to 15~20 fps, but nothing unbearable
The 1333/1600 split wouldn't be a particularly big issue if it weren't for the GPU portion of the A-series using the same RAM as the CPU. It ends up bandwidth-starving the GPU with only 1333, not letting it work at its full potential.
EDIT: this all with the caveat that the Athlon II x4; while being a solid chip that does a better job than you think it'd do, and matching a Phenom II on many things; falls apart on things that need a lot of CPU Cache.
EDIT II: and the fact that I just noticed it's an A8 3800, not a 3850, which actually makes a significant difference. I that case it more or less matches my Athlon II.
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Its' equivalent to Athlon 2 quad core? Dam i didn't know that. I was hoping it would be on par with the Phenom 2.
Is the difference between the 1333 and 1600 really that big?
The only real difference between Athlon II and Phenom II is L3 cache, don't worry about it too much.
Considering I'm currently running an Athlon II x4 620 as my primary desktop/gaming system, I can say right off the bat/from experience with other builds that the A8 is faster; it's based off an optimized Phenom II core, and keeps up quite nicely with the Phenom II parts.
As a side note, for the most part I've not run in to too many slowdowns on the Athlon anyways. WiH more or less maxed out (admittedly the initial release) at times made it dip to 15~20 fps, but nothing unbearable
The 1333/1600 split wouldn't be a particularly big issue if it weren't for the GPU portion of the A-series using the same RAM as the CPU. It ends up bandwidth-starving the GPU with only 1333, not letting it work at its full potential.
EDIT: this all with the caveat that the Athlon II x4; while being a solid chip that does a better job than you think it'd do, and matching a Phenom II on many things; falls apart on things that need a lot of CPU Cache.
Having only L2 cache, Its an Athlon II, not Phenom II. And die shrink, no optimization. Non-OEM A8s are all faster or the same as a 620. The A8-3850 is about par with an Athlon II x4 635 (http://www.anandtech.com/show/4448/amd-llano-desktop-performance-preview/2) (2.9ghz, both), which would make the 2.4ghz A8-3800 about the same as a 610e. OEM people dont like to use full-speed chips. :rolleyes: Still, I stand corrected on the average performance.
The WiH ships in the update are optimized btw, it should run better, just a heads up.
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Having only L2 cache, Its an Athlon II, not Phenom II. And die shrink, no optimization. Non-OEM A8s are all faster or the same as a 620. The A8-3850 is about par with an Athlon II x4 635 (http://www.anandtech.com/show/4448/amd-llano-desktop-performance-preview/2) (2.9ghz, both), which would make the 2.4ghz A8-3800 about the same as a 610e. OEM people dont like to use full-speed chips. :rolleyes: Still, I stand corrected on the average performance.
The WiH ships in the update are optimized btw, it should run better, just a heads up.
And I stand corrected on the lack of L3 cache and optimization on the A8. My bad :) However I think you did miss me (finally) realizing it was the 3800 not the 3850 in my second edit. :lol:
Regardless, it's not a particularly poor chip, it handles FSO fairly well, and my point with the RAM speed stands.
And I do plan to replay WiH at some point, I just haven't had the spare time.
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In my opinion.. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCUwQIn3GrU)
Not much in the way of future proofing. Graphics and CPU both leave a lot to be desired. Always, always do tons of research before spending any amount of cash on a new system / component. Might as well use the internet for something other than forum browsing and porn. Weird application, I know, but it pays off.
edit: maybe I was a bit harsh. When I see an integrated, memory sharing GPU solution I tend to have an allergic reaction :) It is, however, rather cheap for a full system so I guess it's not all bad. Wouldn't expect wonders, especially not gaming-wise.
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In my opinion.. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCUwQIn3GrU)
Not much in the way of future proofing. Graphics and CPU both leave a lot to be desired. Always, always do tons of research before spending any amount of cash on a new system / component. Might as well use the internet for something other than forum browsing and porn. Weird application, I know, but it pays off.
edit: maybe I was a bit harsh. When I see an integrated, memory sharing GPU solution I tend to have an allergic reaction :) It is, however, rather cheap for a full system so I guess it's not all bad. Wouldn't expect wonders, especially not gaming-wise.
The CPU isn't really that bad, and llano graphics are insanely good (for integrated). Should it ever get too slow, a vid card upgrade down the line gives the cpu the full ram bus as well as stronger video, win win. And ya, in the price range it is -very- hard to beat llano for a gaming system.
And I stand corrected on the lack of L3 cache and optimization on the A8. My bad :) However I think you did miss me (finally) realizing it was the 3800 not the 3850 in my second edit. :lol:
Regardless, it's not a particularly poor chip, it handles FSO fairly well, and my point with the RAM speed stands.
And I do plan to replay WiH at some point, I just haven't had the spare time.
Ya, I did. I kinda wish it did have a full speed A8, but at least it seems they left the gpu half alone.
And apperently we both missed the fact it has turbo core... up to 2.7ghz. That would make a pretty big difference. Also a bit interesting since it seems only the 3800, 3600, and 3500 have it. Ugh, why do OEMs have to make it so hard on people :blah:
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just as a "for next time" note, many of us here would have been happy to help you with a custom built PC. parting it out is the hard(ish) part, and that could be done with help over the internet. assembling them is like legos for grownups. don't let inexperience drive you toward an OEM computer.
and as for C&C 4 - here you go. (http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/command-conquer-4-tiberian-twilight) Keeping in mind that the critic score always DRASTICALLY overrates games, a 66 is abominable. but that's not even what tells the true story, user scores are far better measures of a game. and you're right, all C&C games in the past have been excellent. this one blows because it's NOT a C&C game. kane is the only weak link it has to the original franchise.
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I did notice it had integrated graphics, and with 8 gigs i thought that if the GPU took extra ram from the processor that would be fine with how much extra it has. It actually limits the GPU instead of letting it borrow more?
I liked this model over some others because it had a better GPU even tho it was integrated.
Also from your replies it seems your saying the 3800 is not as good as the 3850. I looked when i was doing my research, and the 3800 had a better or similar GPU and it had Turbocore where as the 3500 didn't. What am i missing?
Lastly, what is OEM again and why is it important?
EDIT: Can anyone link me to the HLP C&C4 topic, the main innitial one (when the game came out.) Thanks.
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OEM = Original Equipment Manufacturer - or for our purposes, system builders - usually large corporations. I.E. Dell, Asus, etc. The issue is that mass-produced systems are just that - mass produced, often not put together with any sense of care for how the parts will actually work together, and with the intention of getting the maximum profit margin possible. It would not have been more than an extra 20 dollars for faster RAM at todays prices, but that's an element most average people won't notice or won't know any different.
The issue with the RAM isn't the amount; actually, that's an unusually reasonable amount for an OEM system. The issue is with the speed of the RAM - 1333 mhz, vs. 1600 mhz or more; this affects the bandwidth (amount of data that can be transferred per second/unit of time).
You seem to have missed the numbers' significance. It makes sense that the 3800 would be better than the 3500, just look at the numbers. A 3850 has a 200 - 500 mhz (0.2 - 0.5 Ghz) speed edge on a 3800, that's really the only difference (aside from slightly higher power usage).
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I did notice it had integrated graphics, and with 8 gigs i thought that if the GPU took extra ram from the processor that would be fine with how much extra it has. It actually limits the GPU instead of letting it borrow more?
Well, the on-chip graphics will only allocate up to 1gb to itself (plenty for what it can do). The problem here isnt the amount of ram, its the speed and bus width. The average vid card these days has a 256-bit bus (256 1s and 0s per 'tick' of the clock) usualy running at 1000mhz or faster. Even with dual channel, due to the low speed of the ram, the best you can get is a 128-bit bus at 1333 mhz, and it has to share that with the CPU. The primary issue here is it can't get information to the CPU/GPU fast enough.
I liked this model over some others because it had a better GPU even tho it was integrated.
Yes, at the price point it is very hard to beat an A8. It outshines any intel integrated and almost every nvidia/ati dedicated card you can find in the sub-$600 computer range. Even with the slower ram.
Also from your replies it seems your saying the 3800 is not as good as the 3850. I looked when i was doing my research, and the 3800 had a better or similar GPU and it had Turbocore where as the 3500 didn't. What am i missing?
The A8-3800 runs at a stock clock of 2.4ghz, and can turbo up to 2.7ghz. The A8-3850 runs at a stock clock of 2.9ghz. It doesnt matter that the A8-3800 has turbocore, its still slower. (this logic only applies to CPUs in the same family. i.e. A8-* or i3 2*** and so on.)
As a side note, the A8-3500 is a laptop cpu (and does have turbocore).
Lastly, what is OEM again and why is it important?
OEM: Original Equipment Manufacturer
Dell, HP, Asus, Lenovo, Gateway and others like them are all OEM. In this context, the A8-3800 is an OEM CPU, meaning it is sold only to OEMs like Asus or Dell. The CPU is not available to be bought on its own. Typically, OEM cpus are slower then the consumer available versions.
An OEM is out to make a profit; they will not hesitate to put in cheaper parts (within reason) to bring down the cost. Such as putting in 4 2gb sticks of 1333 instead of the more logical 2 4gb sticks of 1600. Or a 5400rpm harddrive instead of 7200rpm.
OEMs have a positive side, They offer warrantys, support, drivers available on their site, and the fact you don't have to build it yourself. On the other hand you don't get the best quality of hardware, your upgrade paths are limited, and if you modify it there is a chance it breaks your warranty.
Most tech savvy people prefer to build their own computers. It is not hard to match an OEMs price with better hardware inside, and people will help pick out parts if you ask. But you lose the warranty (from the OEM, the parts still have warrantys) and all the services an OEM would provide.
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EDIT: Can anyone link me to the HLP C&C4 topic, the main innitial one (when the game came out.) Thanks.
Site-specific Google searches (http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Ahard-light.net+c%26c+4) work wonders. It's the same thing that anyone searching for that thread would have to do, since I doubt that anyone has the link lying around. :)
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Thanks everyone for your replies. I'm learning, woot.
I did a site specific search and did not find it -- but i will try again.
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that made me waste about an hour reading through some of the old thread. man, i forgot how much everyone seems to hate generals and kane's wrath. i thought both were quite good. other than a bit of general bugginess, i thought KW added quite a bit to c&c3.