[Snail]

That's not the point. We have poor info about the Ancients. I can't give for sure that your theories aren't valid. You should have done the same...you accept my theories as "possible" just because you fear another Flame War^TM. I don't want to flame males.

I don't want to get banned, besides, I accept that "several" decades could mean anything.

[Hades]

Mobius, there is no cannon evidence that the Ancients were strong.It said that "They could not harm the Shivans".

[Snail]

The canon evidence is that "The Ancients are only a few decades ahead of the GTA and PVN". But that could mean anything from 20 years to 90.

[Mobius]

That's the point!

No more argues!

[Black Wolf]

Will you stop with the massive ****ing text?

I agree. Size 9 text is unneccesary.

[Mobius]

It's necessary to calm everyone down.

[Hades]

No, I think it just makes every one less calm Mobius.

[Mobius]

It helped me in stopping flaming, I guess it was useful

[Black Wolf]

Once may be justifiable, but after that you're just yelling for no good reason. Please don't.

[Fang_Taichou]

Maybe it was the lucifer fleet that destroyed the ancients.
(Just trying to stop the flaming).

This is the most plausible explanation.  The Lucifer was the only Shivan warship with shielding, plus it was the only vessel capable of planetary bombardment to wipe out the Ancient's planets and homeworld (a Sathanas might be able too, but those don't have shielding and the forward beams can get defanged with reasonable firepower then destroyed, but Sathanas are more of a supernova weapon).  Shivan fighters and bombers have much weaker shields that can get blown past by simple explosive force (GTM Furies anyone?), but the Lucifer can take torpedo hits as if they were duds.

Let's put it this way, if the Ancients didn't encounter a Lucifer, then there would've been no need to find out shields fail in subspace, as Shivan fighters and bombers don't have the firepower to wipe out life on a planet, or the shielding strength to survive a barrage of missiles.

[Mobius]

No, it doesnt' make sense.

The Lucifer was the only Shivan ship with shielding...we have yet seen. It can bombard planets and make the unhabitable, but it doesn't appear to be designed to wipe out civilizations(supernovae). The Ancients were completely annihilated, which means that the Shivans sent warships and plenties of spacecraft.

Vasudan scientists found the remnants of the Ancient civilization in a planet. Was it bombarded by the Lucifer? We know that the Lucifer is capable reducing everything to shreds. How it is possible that a considerable number of artifacts remained(the Ancients must have been tough)?

The Ancients almost LIVED in subspace. And in subspace, the advantage of using shields disappears. We can't only think of the Lucifer, I mentioned the Dragon and I had my motives.

[Snail]

The Ancients didn't live in subspace.

Where did you get that idea?

[Hades]

His imagination^TM.

[Vip]

The Ancients didn't live in subspace.

Where did you get that idea?

Well, they used subspace, extensively I guess... But to actually live in it ? That's a bit too much. Next thing we'll hear is that the Ancients are a sister race to the Shivans...

[Snail]

It's practically disproven since the Ancients only found out that Shivan shields did not work in subspace when it was too late.

[Vip]

It's practically disproven since the Ancients only found out that Shivan shields did not work in subspace when it was too late.

That raises a question in my head. What did they mean by the "no means" phrase ? Didn't they have any space vessels left capable of going into subspace ? Or perhaps they simply didn't had enough firepower on the few remaining ships to actually hurt the Lucy/whatever else Shivan vessel in subspace ?

[Snail]

It doesn't matter evil way, but IMO it would be the latter.

[Hades]

It could be a little bit of both.

[Snail]

How's that possible? How could they have NO ships and a FEW ships at the same time?

[Hades]

I meant they have like freighters and transports.Very few of them.