Hard Light Productions Forums
FreeSpace Releases => Asset Releases => Topic started by: Black Wolf on January 23, 2011, 03:22:52 am
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[EDIT2] - RELEASE 1.2 NOW AVAILABLE, INCLUDES TURRET, DISH, BIODOMES ETC. - Go HERE (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=74116.msg1542081)
So I made a little drydock thing for a Fenris.
(http://i51.tinypic.com/n33cd0.jpg)
(http://i53.tinypic.com/am3ywx.jpg)
And then I thought... "That needs more girders." So I added them.
(http://i53.tinypic.com/29m3rlu.jpg)
(http://i56.tinypic.com/166tsh.jpg)
Essentially, this is a very simple, first pass at a system for creating modular, drydock type shapes around ships, most particularly for ships that are just ridiculously small inside the Ganymede or Polaris (i.e. cruisers and below). At this point it's limited to 5 and 11 cell lengths and single cell joiner pieces, and, as a result, to 90 degree bends. But adding new pieces to allow for 45 degree angles (or whatever angle, really) should be relatively simple. Obviously, they all dock together quite nicely since the lengths are all standardized (Each bar is 1m/1m/8m - a single cube is 10x10x10). The intention is to give FREDders another tool for adding to the atmosphere of a mission, more of the real world stuff that Freespace sorely lacks.
Obviously, it's not going to work so well for something destroyer sized (even corvettes, at this point, will be dicey because of the number of individual pieces required (going up to 21 cell girders would be more logical there, which is a very simple propsition)), but for its nieche I think it works pretty well. I'd like some feedback from people who try it out, any suggestions for new pieces in particular.
Download (http://www.mediafire.com/?o2bqe6edosq9y4q)
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I like this sort of thing, nice work :)
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Very practical :yes: A tube corridor inside might be nice so humans can move there without a spacesuit though :) then maybe attach point to crew quarters module and stuff. Keep up the good work!
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A tube in the central part of the girders isn't really practical given the way they connect together - the single cell connector pieces would need to be oriented correctly, and you'd need separate models for t junctions, 4 way junctions, straight through, ninety degree turns etc. etc. Very complex. Attaching little mini installations to the side though is as easy as pie - well, as easy as making the pofs anyway. I have a few ideas about how to make them work, but I'll need to spend some time experimenting.
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Good stuff, Black Wolf. I once had an idea for making a ship construction yard, with converted cargo containers with windows acting as porta-cabins, like those you might see on construction sites, linked together by cables/tubes to allow crews to move between them. Not sure how 'realistic' that would be in space, though. I also thought that it'd be cool to model one of the construction ships/robots that you see in the Colossus cutscene to go with it. Maybe I'll get around to that if I get more Blender experience.
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Very cool :yes:
Now, for it to be practical to act as a drydock, it would need something like a crane/robotic arm attached to the girders that would actually do stuff.
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Or one of the repair bots from the Colossus cutscene!
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A tube in the central part of the girders isn't really practical given the way they connect together - the single cell connector pieces would need to be oriented correctly, and you'd need separate models for t junctions, 4 way junctions, straight through, ninety degree turns etc. etc. Very complex. Attaching little mini installations to the side though is as easy as pie - well, as easy as making the pofs anyway. I have a few ideas about how to make them work, but I'll need to spend some time experimenting.
You could build a simple connector cube with 6 closed hatches on it, and the girder outside. That would allow making modular stuff without getting too complicated. A 90 degree turn would require connecting a cube with 2 elements at a 90 degree angle, an extension would require connecting the cube with 2 girders on the opposite sides, etc. all the way up to a 6 way 'hub' connection, where the cube would have a girder attached to every hatch.
Also- a crew quarter module would be nice (best with a dockpoint or docking bay for a transport, and another dockpoint with a hatch (same standard one as the cubes and girders) to allow connecting it to the other parts of the modular system), and some sections with the inner pipes for people/machines, but without the girder. These could be placed so that they connect the ouside dock thingy with the ship inside, similar to what the pipes on the Ganymede do.
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Or one of the repair bots from the Colossus cutscene!
I am in the process of making one of those...
But I would find this incredibly useful if it had a few longer pieces for something corvette sized.
Really cool!
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It would also make good makeshift instalation given the quarters and dockpoint modules.
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A modular base could be made using a similar method... such as connecting various transport tube types together to link up landing pads, power generators, processing plants, etc.
At any rate, good stuff Wolf. :yes:
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Cool, but I think it needs a few more "interesting bits".
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This could easily (if modelers have the inclination) have the potential to become a sort of "modular standard" for this size of stuff. Powerplants, sentry guns, living spaces, etc. could all be made to fit into these kinds of things.
I've been using Polaris pylons shrunk 1/6 in PCS2 for this application (Fenris cruiser, actually), but these are miles better. :yes: So far, I've been really liking your 'extra' models. They have a utilitarian aesthetic that blends in perfectly, and unobtrusively, with canon FS stuff.
Plus: Docking > Placing things manually in FRED.
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Cool, but I think it needs a few more "interesting bits".
+1
A section with some kind of generic storage pods (though docking cargo containers would work)
Docking section for repair/construction craft
Small habitation/command section
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You guys are so needy... Can't you be creative with the girders + pylons, cargo containers and all the other junk we have lying around the forums? Why do you have to insist that this guy create you a whole modular installation just because he handed out a set of girders?
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You guys are so needy... Can't you be creative with the girders + pylons, cargo containers and all the other junk we have lying around the forums? Why do you have to insist that this guy create you a whole modular installation just because he handed out a set of girders?
I think people are just seeing the world of possibilities opened up by completed modular station stuff and are just getting excited. Plus, Blackwolf said it was a first pass at it, so he basically opened the field (whether intentionally or not) for people to come in and start asking for their favorite feature. :)
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Terran-Vasudan War reinforcement/recon wing (for jumping through nodes).
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11522509/reinforcements.jpg)
Sorry for the double post; these things are just sexy. You're about half-way to giving me K'Nex or Legos in FRED.
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this is pretty clever. if you keep things square, with fixed girder lengths in multiples of unit length, and unit length being the size of your typical hub (the distance between 2 adjacent dock points of your basic 6-way hub). modules could be designed with linkups that match girder length+2 (for hubs and t-pieces). to expand beyond square is where things get tricky.
say you want a cross-ways girder as part of a square frame and say 1 unit = 10 meters and distance between the center of the hubs is 100m x 100m (or 10 units). provided there is space for an angular dockpoint (say one of the orthagonal docs rotated 45 degrees about the intersecting axis) that doesnt clip with the other docks. the distance between the dock center and the dock is 0.5units, and in this case it would be about 5 meters with a 90 meter (or 9 units) girder (the whole frame would actually be 110x110m, given the extra 0.5units). the distance between kitty corner hub centers would be sqrt(10x10+10x10) or 14.14214 units -0.5-0.5 for the distance between the dock and the hub center. so this would require a girder 13.14214 units long. what you could do is add the extra 0.14214 to the hubs instead so you can have an integer-length girder. you would only need to extrude the dock face of the diagonals by 0.14214*0.5 units.
getting even more 3dimensional, say you have a cube built with 2 of those frames connected by 9-unit girders (gonna use cell units from here out). now the distance between top right hub on the back frame and the bottom left hub on the back frame is sqrt(10*10+10*10+10*10), or 17.32052 units. we can do the same thing as last time and take up the excess 0.32052 space at the hub and use a 17 unit girder. at this point we kinda hit a problem though. say we want to use 5-unit girders, now the distance between the same 2 modules is sqrt(5*5+5*5+5*5) or 8.66025, and if you wanted to use a 7 unit girder you now need to take up 0.66025*0.5 (beyond the 0.5 needed) at the hub.
essentially what your creating is a virtual lego set. if you have used lego for as long as i have you grow to respect the engineering behind the system. my point is that this is something that would require more engineering that graphics design. if you come up with a decent set of design rules then you need not model the whole thing yourself. if you make the standards for the system up front and well documented, providing guidelines to follow for people wanting to create new parts that mesh well with the existing system, then you would have a very powerful way to build whatever kind of installation you want with with only a small library of parts.
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Forgive my ignorance, but could you please illustrate? :nervous:
Edit: Ohhh ok, your talking about diagonals?
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Really cool development- we may soon start seeing bitz that can be modular with this system of girders. Not to mention the potential of "destructible terrain", as it were, for installations.
/me approves.
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Terran-Vasudan War reinforcement/recon wing (for jumping through nodes).
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11522509/reinforcements.jpg)
Sorry for the double post; these things are just sexy. You're about half-way to giving me K'Nex or Legos in FRED.
That's awesome! I hadn't even considered combining the two models, but that's really clever.
this is pretty clever. if you keep things square, with fixed girder lengths in multiples of unit length, and unit length being the size of your typical hub (the distance between 2 adjacent dock points of your basic 6-way hub). modules could be designed with linkups that match girder length+2 (for hubs and t-pieces). to expand beyond square is where things get tricky.
say you want a cross-ways girder as part of a square frame and say 1 unit = 10 meters and distance between the center of the hubs is 100m x 100m (or 10 units). provided there is space for an angular dockpoint (say one of the orthagonal docs rotated 45 degrees about the intersecting axis) that doesnt clip with the other docks. the distance between the dock center and the dock is 0.5units, and in this case it would be about 5 meters with a 90 meter (or 9 units) girder (the whole frame would actually be 110x110m, given the extra 0.5units). the distance between kitty corner hub centers would be sqrt(10x10+10x10) or 14.14214 units -0.5-0.5 for the distance between the dock and the hub center. so this would require a girder 13.14214 units long. what you could do is add the extra 0.14214 to the hubs instead so you can have an integer-length girder. you would only need to extrude the dock face of the diagonals by 0.14214*0.5 units.
getting even more 3dimensional, say you have a cube built with 2 of those frames connected by 9-unit girders (gonna use cell units from here out). now the distance between top right hub on the back frame and the bottom left hub on the back frame is sqrt(10*10+10*10+10*10), or 17.32052 units. we can do the same thing as last time and take up the excess 0.32052 space at the hub and use a 17 unit girder. at this point we kinda hit a problem though. say we want to use 5-unit girders, now the distance between the same 2 modules is sqrt(5*5+5*5+5*5) or 8.66025, and if you wanted to use a 7 unit girder you now need to take up 0.66025*0.5 (beyond the 0.5 needed) at the hub.
essentially what your creating is a virtual lego set. if you have used lego for as long as i have you grow to respect the engineering behind the system. my point is that this is something that would require more engineering that graphics design. if you come up with a decent set of design rules then you need not model the whole thing yourself. if you make the standards for the system up front and well documented, providing guidelines to follow for people wanting to create new parts that mesh well with the existing system, then you would have a very powerful way to build whatever kind of installation you want with with only a small library of parts.
I'm afraid the engineering is a bit beyond me (Thinking in 3d is hard enough, but maths in 3d? :ick:), but I think I see the problem you're trying to lllustrate, namely that adding 45 degree bends will mess up the nice regular spacing in the 3 orthographic planes. I hadn't considered this. The problem, as you've illustrated, is that the length of the angled bit will affect the amount needed to compensate. I will have to fiddle about in Max and see if I can come with some way of compensating - as you say, the changes can be made to the corner pieces easily enough, rather than to the diagonal girders, but I need some way of compensating for people using 5 cell vs. 11 cell diagonals.
As for more parts, I do have some ideas, as I've said. I've already got blank cap-plate type things and an associated docking ring in-game, mostly because they were so nice and simple to do. I'm not sure what'll be next - there seems to be a lot of interest in turning these into an installation of sorts, which wasn't exactly what I'd intended, but that's not really important. I guess I could throw together something... we'll see.
[EDIT]BTW, any other contributions to this would be most welcome, if anyone has any ideas and some time. It's very basic modelling, after all.
[EDIT2]Just been playing around with blowing up the Fenris... wow. :D You have to jettison cargo all the different girders, otherwise it reacts strangely, but it just looks totally ****ed up when all is said and done, as it probably should do. :D
http://imagebin.org/134107
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Double post, sorry... whoever was angsting about it in IRC before.
(http://i54.tinypic.com/11m88zd.jpg)
You can see the plate things I was talking about in that picture, and how some of them also have that dockpoint docked to them, which can then be further docked to cargo or ships. The same dockpoint is employed to cover the top of the umbilical connector cord between the cruiser and the outside world. Had to fiddle with them quite a lot to get mass and MoI right to ensure that docked ships didn't shake the Levi around like a ragdoll (credit to VA for the idea that finally fixed it). And I stole Solatar's idea and added some Acropolis's to the structure up the front there. :D
I just need one more small doodad to fill up the last quarter of my UV map, and then I'll release these 4, then probably start with some other, slightly more complex bits and pieces - possibly an installation attachment.
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Tachyon had a similar usage for modular structures... the way it solved shooting pieces at angles was
to have a "structure blob" as a connector inbetween two sections.
Guess I'll just get you some examples... I'm not good at ASCII art...
http://files.fringespace.org/jgz/HLP/Girders_0000.jpg (http://files.fringespace.org/jgz/HLP/Girders_0000.jpg)
http://files.fringespace.org/jgz/HLP/Girders_0001.jpg (http://files.fringespace.org/jgz/HLP/Girders_0001.jpg)
http://files.fringespace.org/jgz/HLP/Girders_0002.jpg (http://files.fringespace.org/jgz/HLP/Girders_0002.jpg)
http://files.fringespace.org/jgz/HLP/Girders_0003.jpg (http://files.fringespace.org/jgz/HLP/Girders_0003.jpg)
http://files.fringespace.org/jgz/HLP/Girders_0004.jpg (http://files.fringespace.org/jgz/HLP/Girders_0004.jpg)
http://files.fringespace.org/jgz/HLP/Girders_0005.jpg (http://files.fringespace.org/jgz/HLP/Girders_0005.jpg)
http://files.fringespace.org/jgz/HLP/Girders_0006.jpg (http://files.fringespace.org/jgz/HLP/Girders_0006.jpg)
http://files.fringespace.org/jgz/HLP/Girders_0007.jpg (http://files.fringespace.org/jgz/HLP/Girders_0007.jpg)
http://files.fringespace.org/jgz/HLP/Girders_0008.jpg (http://files.fringespace.org/jgz/HLP/Girders_0008.jpg)
http://files.fringespace.org/jgz/HLP/Girders_0009.jpg (http://files.fringespace.org/jgz/HLP/Girders_0009.jpg)
http://files.fringespace.org/jgz/HLP/Girders_0010.jpg (http://files.fringespace.org/jgz/HLP/Girders_0010.jpg)
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These are looking fantastic Black Wolf. So much potential with them too; Make the right modules to go with them and you can create practically anything! (loved Solatar's idea; never considered that) :)
My only worry would be that (assuming your using lots of individual components here) unless they're stealthed the poor player's radar is going to be a mess of blips. When you've finished the modules you wish to do, perhaps you could release them all together in a sort of "construction kit" DAE file? That way people that want big stations can mock up an arrangment with the seperate modules in FRED, and use the kit in a modeller to remake it as a single model. It's a pity we can't do some kind of "merge objects" thing, though i imagine the engine couldn't handle it.
But yeah, this is some truly amazing work here mate. They'll be invaluble to a lot of people that's for sure (definately got a ton of ideas in my head already). :cool:
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Yeah forgot to mention that... Tach used a OCF or Object Combination File, for figuring out how to combine
chunks of things like a base or tubes. The advantage though was that you didn't have to waste FPS on parts of
a single big model not completely seen. Everything was treated like an individual ship. Just some food for thought.
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In case you handn't figure it out by now - I like big cargo platforms :p
(http://i53.tinypic.com/15xlvkm.jpg)
(http://i53.tinypic.com/15dpe39.jpg)
It's scaled to fit a 5 cell girder with 2 single cells on the end. That central docking ring is a separate pof, the same one from the previous set of pics. The satis is there to demonstrate one way of using it (and yes, I know it's upside down :p).
If you've a really sharp eye, you'd have noticed that the new platform actually uses some of the texs from my other cago platform - the rest come from the various other items in the modular kit. So I still need one more object to use up the last quarter of my UV space before I release all this. Fortunately, those Tachyon pics have given me lots of ideas :)
T-Man: All of my bits are stealthed, made hostile and then given the protect ship and invulnerable flags in the Ships editor. This gets rid of them on the HUD and makes them untargetable, which is useful for lots of things. As for putting it all together in DAE, there's nothing stopping anyone doing that with the pof files, of course, but I don't think I'll be doing it myself. The whole point of a system like this is that it works with FRED. No other tools required, especially the nightmare (for modding newbies) of 3d programs, not to mention the conversion to pof.
[EDIT]Oh, quick hint for anyone using these - I'd reccomend uising the jettison-caro sexp on at least a few of your single cells early in th emission, as these things can react... oddly to collisions and such if they're all docked together. Although I'm told there might be a "Never Move" check-box on its way, which would solve that a bit.
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Although I'm not a FREDer I'm pretty certain that this is going to lead to some imaginative uses. :yes:
It's really nice to see something that will enhance the character of missions with installations.
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Awesome!
Now we can have small bases that look like bases and not a bunch of cargo containers and ships floating around :D
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First attempt at a modular outpost.
(http://i54.tinypic.com/2ni5u0o.jpg)
And then with a little texture replacement.
(http://i51.tinypic.com/14uyh52.jpg)
The res is pretty low on that (not helped by the way the mapping is on the dockin pad, I'll admit), but it's more of a proof of concept, really.
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For some reason, Ping Pong comes to mind... :p
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For some reason, Ping Pong comes to mind... :p
:lol:
Are those meant to be giant solar panels in the second pic?
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Yeah, quick and dirty version with the AWACS texs.
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Wow! This stuff will be more than useful for me when it's released!
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I was thinking like a space based stop sign myself, or a gate.
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Second round, with all the new bits and bobs:
[ [ [ DOWNLOAD ] ] ] This version is now out of date - use version 1.1 (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=74116.msg1466816#msg1466816)
I'd really like feedback on some of this - things that need fixing, mostly, or any really good ideas about stuff to add (And don't say installations - I'm still thinking abou the best way to deal with them, but I'll get something better than reskinned cargo containers out before too long.
[EDIT]Just remembered, I was supposed to do a 23 cell girder to go with the 5 and 11, for really large scale stff. I'll do it up tomorrow and post a patch or an update or something.
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Would I be a bastard for suggesting a tube running lengthwise through the girders for people to move through? Mainly on the modular outposts I think this would be good to have.
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Would I be a bastard for suggesting a tube running lengthwise through the girders for people to move through? Mainly on the modular outposts I think this would be good to have.
Yes :p
It's been suggested, and I looked at it, but for a good system, it'll be complex, with lots of parts. Next release, if there is one, I'll look at getting some kind of standardized lenghts of tube in there as a replacement for the current umbilical, and at least a rotateable 90degree piece. But that'll be a little ways off yet, I want to see how this one goes first.
Of course, if someone else wants to get involved... ;)
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Ooooooooooooooooh... :eek2:
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... :eek2:
This is very, very cool. :yes: :yes: :yes: I can already think of a very important Scroll use. :nod:
By the way Black Wolf, are you aware of the Friendly Stealth Invisible ship flag?
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Yeah, but it hasn't been working on my end for some reason... I need to test it with a few different parameters to see if I can nail down exacty why, then possibly mantis it. But yeah, ultimately I'd prefer to use that.
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They can also be used as train tracks for the airport tram next to a gas refinery. :D
My post-processing settings make this image look a little funky, but I'm lazy and I'm not retaking the screens. :p
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11522509/airfield.jpg)
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11522509/airfield2.jpg)
Cookie if you can find all the parts!
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Solatar, it seems like you are using additional pieces than the ones in the pack.. care to share?
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I'm actually not, just good/lucky texture replace. The round thing at the end of the tram track is the red gas container, texture replaced to use pform1 (texture from the cargo platform). It just happens that if you turn it sideways it looks like windows. :D
Other than that, it's BW's refinery, with the 6 sided dock thing from the pack docked to the refinery. One of BW's "cover" things is docked to it to make it look more like a blastdoor to the tarmac. The big cargo platforms aren't actually docked to anything, they're just placed and the "tram" track runs through. The skybox is an older one from the forums, I'll dig it up if you'd like it.
I have no modeling skill, I'm just playing with new toys as they come out. :nod:
EDIT: Also pure coincidence that the Hermes rail looking things fit almost perfectly with the grid.
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Solatar - Love it! :D You're much more creative with this stuff than I am - Makes me wish I's left those tabs off the platform though, I think I'll remove them for the next release. BTW, that texture for the gas tank is really easy to edit (deliberately so). I don't know if this is just something you threw together or something you want to use later, but it might be worth looking into to get rid of that black space on your side on windows there.
Mjn - He's using this (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=74003.0) and some TVWP stuff I think.
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i wonder how well turret modules would work
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Girder tubes, as requested a few times.
There are three pieces, the 90 degree bend, a 44m long tube (this will replace the exisitng umbilical tube) and a 10m long tube. These fit inside the 5 cell and single cell girders, the rest can be made from those pieces. They're a bit of a prick to work with, but I'm slowly ironing out the bugs, where possible. At the moment, only T junctions are possible, bt I hae a plan that should allow for anything up to 5 way (orthorhombic) junctions - six way you can jsut have things pass straight through each other.
Tip though - you absolutely need jettison-cargo for these to work. Otherwise they cause explosions. Daisy chain docking needs to be checked as well, but that should be standard for all missions using this gear.
[attachment deleted by ninja]
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Hm, that tube junction looks more like a Y than a T. It could be the lighting, or the viewing angle, but it looks as if you can't just go from one of the short parts to the other.
Otherwise, very nice work on all of this :yes:
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/me applauds
This is very cool. :yes:
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I suggest to add bigger and smaller parts. (not just different lengths)
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This is perhaps the most practical and useful mod ever released by the community. Well done, sir!
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Solatar, could you release your mission with just the airport you made?
It'd make a great template for making missions using it.
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this is amazing! Does it allow for destructible components?
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Solatar, could you release your mission with just the airport you made?
It'd make a great template for making missions using it.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11522509/airport.7z
A few notes, since it was just me screwing around:
1) Not everything is docked, some of the components are just placed.
2) Messy or non-existent jettison cargo sexps (I was kind of hoping by the time I'd actually use it, if I did, a "never move" check box might be added)
3) I've got fsport as my mod (actually, I have a separate Descent Freespace folder to keep my Freespace 2 folder less cluttered). I went and replaced the fighters with Ulysses, and gave everything I could Prometheus Rs and Hornets (just for compatability).
4) skybox included, it's not mine.
5) Uses BWs Refinery.
6) Hermes/Tram doesn't move yet. I don't think waypoints will do it, since turning around in 3D isn't something ships on a tram track do, so I need to play around with move-object sexps to make it go back and forth.
EDIT: 7) I just had a thought that not everything is named correctly. I THINK I've named the big cargo dock TCD-01 instead of whatever it came with, but everything else should have the default names. If you just can't get something to work (like I said; just a dump of what was in my mission folder), let me know.
As such, I guarantee nothing if you start shooting at stuff, but here's a copy of my WIP lego model. :p
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Hm, that tube junction looks more like a Y than a T. It could be the lighting, or the viewing angle, but it looks as if you can't just go from one of the short parts to the other.
Otherwise, very nice work on all of this :yes:
Yeah, it's more like a Y. I'm committed to doing this in as flexible a way as possible with as few pieces as possible, which means that a separate T piece wont be added if 2 90 degree joiners will do the same job.I do have an idea regarding T junctions though, I might yet be able to do them with existing pieces without the Y look, lemme experiment.
I suggest to add bigger and smaller parts. (not just different lengths)
Problem there is that everything, at this point, is standardized around the single cell and 5 cell girders (except the umbilical dock, but that's already fixed on my end and will be fixed in the next version for you guys). Everything is 10x10 wide. Changing that would mean duplicating every piece in, say, 2x or 5x scale. I can think of uses (like appplying this stuff to destroyers rather than cruisers and corvettes), but I'm not really keen to include it as part of the basic pack, as it'd double the size. Resizing in PCS is now a fairly trivial matter though, so if someone needs big pieces for a mod, they'll be easy to make.
this is amazing! Does it allow for destructible components?
Not really - only the TGas 1 and the cargo plaform have debris at this point - I might change that, but I really don't think a girder should be blow uppable... it just doesn't make sense... what's blowing up? There's no reactor or fuel or anything. But blowing up something near them does cause some pretty spectacular results (http://imagebin.org/134107) (Same image as before BTW).
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Suddenly I had the idea of hitting the cubes with modded Morning Stars with high mass to make Cube Soccer.
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I remember terrible reskins of mine to make something like this...
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Looks great!
Idea: animated tugs which swing around a drydock slowly on a rotating axis.
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Just tested this. Working with this pack is HIGHLY addictive. It's the best puzzle in the world :D
Request: Companion cube piece :lol:
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Looks great!
Idea: animated tugs which swing around a drydock slowly on a rotating axis.
What, like rotating subsystems? Or new ship models?
Anyway, quick update, the 23 cell girder is ingame, making it much easier to do things at corvette scale. And I know that the tubing doesn't go anywhere inside the girders there, just for show at this point.
[EDIT]Now have three and 4 way intersections working on the umbilicals, with no extra pieces, so I'm happy with the system. Just need to remap the docking pad to get rid of the reliance on the cargo platform texture and I'll be able to put version 1.1 up.
[attachment deleted by ninja]
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**Is reminded of giant space tinker toys**
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BTW BlackWolf, you might visit SolCommand's blog for ideas too...
http://solcommand.blogspot.com/
He's always putting out some nice looking stuff.
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Updated to version 1.1:
[ [ [ DOWNLOAD ] ] ] (http://www.mediafire.com/?4f7sn6pqsd59b1o)
Now includes the 23 cell girder and a resized (to standard 44m) umbilical, along with the 10m single cells and the 90 degree benders. Also includes fixed mapping on the docking pad to work better with texture replacement, additional dockpoints on the cargo platfomr at a standard spacing to integrate with the 5 cell girder (didn't get around to taking off the tabs - I like them on the model as a standalone too much). Everything else is pretty much the same I think - oh, the readme's a liitle different, a few more tips.
This will be the last "Drydock" type release. Release 2 will be more about adding on installation modules, though I will include at least some capability for angled girders in the next release.
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Oh.
I should get into FS modding now, just so I can use this.
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So I've gotten onto doing some hab modules, but they're... I'm not convinced I'm going in the right direction. They're just meant as base units, for stuff to be added on to, but they may well change to something completely different before I'm happy.
[EDIT]I should explain the system I've come down on. That module there is 118m wide, 64m tall and 64m long - this corresponds with the girders (5 cell plus 2 10m cubes = 64m, 11 cell +20m = 118m), and you can see how they fit flush against the sides. This particular piece is an end bit - there is an equivalent 64x64x118 without the bevelled cap bit, so they can be strung together in chains. I'm planning at least 3 or 4 similar end bits to add some diversity, plus there'll be further doodads which can be attached - larger scale than the plates, docking rings and whatnot you can see in that picture. Hopefully these larger scale doodads and the multiple cap pieces will add a reasonable level of detail, but it's important to understand that a kit like this is never going to create models on par with something like the Asteria for detail without putting hundred and hundreds of parts together, which obviousy isn't viable.
[EDIT2]Added another pic - I'm rstarting to have fun with this stuff :)
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It's the modularity that counts, in fact i think that less details actually makes sense, as it is designed to be built quickly :-)
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Stole the missile turrets off the Canberra. Also got a couple of bigger doodads made, got some plans for them, should have something a little more freespace-installationish as of tomorrow or tuesday (Need some texs), assuming no work related time hassles.
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Idea: Some kind of rail mounted repair robot or skiff that fixes the girders / platforms.
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Problem: Anything on a rail will require lateral movement, and right now the engine doesn't support submodel translation. I could perhaps foresee a fixed robotic arm but I don't think that you could mount a dockpoint to a moving submodel, so it would be decorative rather than functional.
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Problem: Anything on a rail will require lateral movement, and right now the engine doesn't support submodel translation. I could perhaps foresee a fixed robotic arm but I don't think that you could mount a dockpoint to a moving submodel, so it would be decorative rather than functional.
What about a "craft" exclusive to AI that jumps from dockwpoint to dockpoint?
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id just say use a tug ship, which would dock to the parts, and can manuver them into place. you could actually show an installation being made in game and i think it would be pretty awesome.
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id just say use a tug ship, which would dock to the parts, and can manuver them into place. you could actually show an installation being made in game and i think it would be pretty awesome.
Even better
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id just say use a tug ship, which would dock to the parts, and can maneuver them into place. you could actually show an installation being made in game and i think it would be pretty awesome.
There is a problem with that, as they will only be able to place the components, rather than actually docking them. The only way I could foresee this done, would be to give the component itself an AI class and limited movement. Then when the docked construction pod moves the component close to the dockpoint, the pod shuts down its control and the AI in the component is activated and with the pod in tow, moves its other dockpoint to dock to its intended destination dockpoint on the target structure.
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id just say use a tug ship, which would dock to the parts, and can maneuver them into place. you could actually show an installation being made in game and i think it would be pretty awesome.
There is a problem with that, as they will only be able to place the components, rather than actually docking them. The only way I could foresee this done, would be to give the component itself an AI class and limited movement. Then when the docked construction pod moves the component close to the dockpoint, the pod shuts down its control and the AI in the component is activated and with the pod in tow, moves its other dockpoint to dock to its intended destination dockpoint on the target structure.
im sure with some mod magic it could be made to work.
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These are looking very promising. I want to offer some suggestions if I may? I actually am a USCG licensed Captain and have been to many a dry-dock and regular maintenance dock in my work.
1) This is not a "Dry-Dock." Dry-docking is when a ship is taken out of the water completely and placed on land. This allows work on the underside of the hull and also allows for complicated inspections to take place that will keep the vessel registered, like some of you must get emissions tests on cars, ships and boats who are for hire or inspected as training/military/commercial must undergo regular, rigorous inspection by either the military or USCG inspectors. This happens once a year, with major inspections due every 5 which include running drills and simulations with the crew for the inspectors to pass off crew as being proficient enough to run the vessel.
The equivalent of a dry-dock for a ship would be an entirely enclosed, gravity-enhanced facility that is climate controlled and that would ground the ship by hard, semi-permanent attach points to the inside of the facility.
Instead, you would consider this a "hard-dock." Or just a regular dock, in general, as most all docks for ships have even rudimentary ability to be service facilities.
2) You need more connections and the girders need to be closer to the ship. The girderrs I've seen in your Screens look too far away from the hull to allow a human team of engineers or welders to benefit from them being there. I imagine that most any worker would be suited in an exo-suite of some kind, and thus the only purpose of the girders in deep space would be to allow heavier equipment to be handy, as well as tethering the workers to the station for safety. Also it could be used to help brace and position difficult repair jobs and equipment. You would constantly have traffic on and off the ship.
3) You also need a support center. Girders around a ship with just a small dock at another end with no structure to support materials, housing, utilities such as fuel and gas, and auxilliary machinery that the ship may need is pointless. If the ship were going to do repairs on it's own self without going to a very lively, stocked and supported facility, it would just do them in it's own little piece of space without bothering about the girders. The crew would tether to the ship, and repairs would be made sufficient enough to make the nearest hard-dock.
4) If you want to include some sort of scaffolding support, ie - heavy damage to the ship requires the crew to build scaffolding on to the exterior in order to repair the ship to make minimal way, the scaffolding would be small and localized, and physically attached to the ship. A Fenris cruiser, I doubt, would have the spare cargo room to hold girders the length and scale of what you screened. The scaffolding they would have would be for when it was only absolutely necessary, or when there would be long portions of time away from any hard dock facility where repairs to exterior mechanics could take place. If you've never been aboard any commercial or military ship, they are equipped with scaffolding and maintenance supplies. Some even have cranes mounted in stowed positions that can be spot welded into place should the need arise. However in doing so, they give up a very big majority of stowage space and typically those that have such equipment haul cargo and do scientific missions. Warships have very little space for large scaffolding or repair equipment, relying on support ships for this. The turrets, crew quarters, life support and engine systems take up more room than can be spared, and most quarters aboard are tight, sparse. The BattleStar Galactica series was a bad example of interior ship design. They showed large hallways, spacious quarters and many vacant, unused rooms. A true warship has no space for heavy repair machinery that does not have some dual purpose for war. Everything on a ship has a dual purpose. Right down to the seats. No wasted space.
I really like where you want to go with the idea of manipulative scaffolding. Don't get lost in the "cool" factor though. Keep it realistic and functional.
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Well that was an excellent post.
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i for one dont thing using the naval terminology to describe spacecraft and the support thereof, unless used in a metaphorical sense, is a very good idea. i kinda dont think it would be practical to have an atmospheric enclosed space station large enough to accommodate a ship any larger than a cruiser (in the freespace sense of the word). i would imagine that anything corvette or smaller could be constructed on a moon or asteroid with low gravity and preferably some atmosphere. even if it is not breathable, if the pressure and temperature is appropriate, workers could operate in less constricting gear than a full space suit, such as a breathing mask of sorts. one big thing astronauts always mention is that doing work in a space suit is like working with a beach ball between your arms, and it would be cheaper in manpower, cost and time to use arrays of one shot boost motors to get into space. of course with freespace theres always the possibility of using an intra system subspace jump to orbit.
larger ships would best be constructed in space due to shear magnitude. though i can imagine the construction being somewhat modular fashion, with sections being built at a large installation or planet side, lifted to space, and moved to the "hard-dock" for final installation. pressure seals would be welded first, and if the segments are air tight for the most part, portable life support equipment could be brought in and the workers could finish welding the internal structure without suits.
maintenance would be an entirely different issue than it is with sea vessels. primary concern with those is corrosion, because salt water chews metal something fierce, ships must always be cleaned and painted to protect the hull. in space this would mostly be a non issue. you might have issues with radiation damage or other as of yet unidentified issues with space hulls, but external maintenance would mostly revolve around patching up damage and repairing external equipment. spot welding small scale scaffolding directly to the hull on a temporary basis would definitely be a common practice. of course id figure a primary reasoning for girders would be a place to attach and support large multipurpose robot arms like the ones on the space shuttle or the iss, which would provide footholds for workers and move heavy ship parts, as well as for mooring purposes.
from a modding standpoint i would definitely want to see robotic arms used, they could probably be scripted to a degree to be able to pull off inverse kinematics. so the fredder would be able to call functions to make the endpoints of these arms go pretty much anywhere. there is definitely a large number of possibilities. furthermore the kit could be used to make pretty much anything, so were not limited to shipyards and "hard-docks".
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These are looking very promising. I want to offer some suggestions if I may? I actually am a USCG licensed Captain and have been to many a dry-dock and regular maintenance dock in my work.
1) This is not a "Dry-Dock." Dry-docking is when a ship is taken out of the water completely and placed on land. This allows work on the underside of the hull and also allows for complicated inspections to take place that will keep the vessel registered, like some of you must get emissions tests on cars, ships and boats who are for hire or inspected as training/military/commercial must undergo regular, rigorous inspection by either the military or USCG inspectors. This happens once a year, with major inspections due every 5 which include running drills and simulations with the crew for the inspectors to pass off crew as being proficient enough to run the vessel.
The equivalent of a dry-dock for a ship would be an entirely enclosed, gravity-enhanced facility that is climate controlled and that would ground the ship by hard, semi-permanent attach points to the inside of the facility.
Instead, you would consider this a "hard-dock." Or just a regular dock, in general, as most all docks for ships have even rudimentary ability to be service facilities.
2) You need more connections and the girders need to be closer to the ship. The girderrs I've seen in your Screens look too far away from the hull to allow a human team of engineers or welders to benefit from them being there. I imagine that most any worker would be suited in an exo-suite of some kind, and thus the only purpose of the girders in deep space would be to allow heavier equipment to be handy, as well as tethering the workers to the station for safety. Also it could be used to help brace and position difficult repair jobs and equipment. You would constantly have traffic on and off the ship.
3) You also need a support center. Girders around a ship with just a small dock at another end with no structure to support materials, housing, utilities such as fuel and gas, and auxilliary machinery that the ship may need is pointless. If the ship were going to do repairs on it's own self without going to a very lively, stocked and supported facility, it would just do them in it's own little piece of space without bothering about the girders. The crew would tether to the ship, and repairs would be made sufficient enough to make the nearest hard-dock.
4) If you want to include some sort of scaffolding support, ie - heavy damage to the ship requires the crew to build scaffolding on to the exterior in order to repair the ship to make minimal way, the scaffolding would be small and localized, and physically attached to the ship. A Fenris cruiser, I doubt, would have the spare cargo room to hold girders the length and scale of what you screened. The scaffolding they would have would be for when it was only absolutely necessary, or when there would be long portions of time away from any hard dock facility where repairs to exterior mechanics could take place. If you've never been aboard any commercial or military ship, they are equipped with scaffolding and maintenance supplies. Some even have cranes mounted in stowed positions that can be spot welded into place should the need arise. However in doing so, they give up a very big majority of stowage space and typically those that have such equipment haul cargo and do scientific missions. Warships have very little space for large scaffolding or repair equipment, relying on support ships for this. The turrets, crew quarters, life support and engine systems take up more room than can be spared, and most quarters aboard are tight, sparse. The BattleStar Galactica series was a bad example of interior ship design. They showed large hallways, spacious quarters and many vacant, unused rooms. A true warship has no space for heavy repair machinery that does not have some dual purpose for war. Everything on a ship has a dual purpose. Right down to the seats. No wasted space.
I really like where you want to go with the idea of manipulative scaffolding. Don't get lost in the "cool" factor though. Keep it realistic and functional.
Wow, Battuta's right, that's a good post. Unfortunately, I think you're kinda missing the core purpose behind this project.
I don't want to dismiss your obvious experience or expertise, but you have to remember what's being made here. Initially, it was a set of girders, made solely as a storytelling prop - "This mission is set in a shipyard. You can tell it's a shipyard because there are all these ships sitting in girders everywhere" or "This ship is being repaired after that beating it took two missions ago. You can tell it's being repaired because it's surrounded by girders". It wasn't meant to be a realistic projection of repairs performed in space any more than the Orion is a realistic projection of what human stellar-warfare will look like in the 24th century. It's designed to work ingame and evoke a feeling, not to be technically accurate.
Also, don't forget this is now not just a set of girders for making drydocks - it's designed to be put towards making all sorts of modular stuff. Solatar has already shown some cool things that can be done with it other than just putting girders around ships. Getting everything closer to the hull means making all the pieces smaller, which decreases the viability of that modularity (there's a certain size below which stuff just isn't worth making, given the scale of FS). It also introduces technical issues, such as increasing the number of objects required to completely enclose a ship, which is already getting quite high and potentially problematic.
Also, there is some provision for support type gear - those platforms fit a bunch of cargo containers on them, for example, and you can see a few posts up that I'm working on hab modules that'll eventually make this much more of a modular outpost type pack in addition to just docks. Cranes and stuff make sense, but I'm not sure how good they'd be without better animation code, and I'm certain I'm not a skilled enough POFfer to do justice to any code that might come along.
Lastly, just FYI none of this stuff is meant to live on the Fenris - it's meant to be set up in a shipyard somewhere, and the Fenris comes into it under its own steam (or under tug, I suppose). Obviously, it's far too bulky to all fit on the ship.
That aside, I'll grant you the definition of drydock doesn't really apply here. It's a drydock in the sense that the Ganymede is a drydock - of course, it's never called a drydock anywhere in the player-accessible fluff (It's called a "Repair and Resupply" facility IIRC), but it has the drydock ship flag, and calling it GTI (i.e. Galactic Terran Installation) goes against the definition of installation given in the Arcadia tech room, IMO. So while the terminology may not be strictly correct (Spacedock or Stardock is probably better), it's kinda-sorta-behindthescenes-quasi-canon, so I'm happy enough with it.
As I said above, I don't want to come across as though I'm belittling your experience or your opinions. I just think that we're maybe looking at this project from two very different perspectives, and unfortunately practicality for FREDders and rule of cool have to be given priority over realism in a game like FS2.
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Yeah, seriously, realism ?...
In FreeSpace ?...
...wut
Rule Of Cool ftw.
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i think you can have geometry 5 levels deep. with hull and taking up one with 4 other segments attached, and pivoting joints. point of ik is to calculate the angles of a system of joints to position the end point at, or as close to as possible, any arbitrary vector that is possible for the system to reach. this would definitely need to be scripted, at least to prototype the algorithms used. of course ik may be overkill, it might just suffice to animate it with the existing animation system.
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Keep analyzing this people :yes:
It can be very usefull for future mods based on Black Wolfs excellent work.
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I have a strange feeling that with power suits and robots working in vacuum won't be nearly as hard as it is today.
Compare a car without power steering to one with power steering. You could rotate the wheel with 1 finger on a stationary vehicle with PS, and without you need at least 1 whole hand to do anything.
The same will apply to power space suits vs regular space suits.
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I have a strange feeling that with power suits and robots working in vacuum won't be nearly as hard as it is today.
Compare a car without power steering to one with power steering. You could rotate the wheel with 1 finger on a stationary vehicle with PS, and without you need at least 1 whole hand to do anything.
The same will apply to power space suits vs regular space suits.
Probably off topic, but there's prototype exoskeletons that work today and allow a worker to lift a weight 20 times their usual limit.
Judging by the protype exo's, I'd say that there's no way to get a good lightweight power supply for them. As such, I'd think the girders would be needed so that the workers can tether themselves for not only a safety measure, but also a source of power for the exo's.
Granted, since it will be in the future there may be a backup battery that will last for a couple of hours for safety reasons...
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Basing tomorrow's batteries (or whatever would be used) based on today's is silly, as our batteries just flat out suck. We can most likely produce good batteries 300~ years into the future.
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I have a strange feeling that with power suits and robots working in vacuum won't be nearly as hard as it is today.
Compare a car without power steering to one with power steering. You could rotate the wheel with 1 finger on a stationary vehicle with PS, and without you need at least 1 whole hand to do anything.
The same will apply to power space suits vs regular space suits.
Probably off topic, but there's prototype exoskeletons that work today and allow a worker to lift a weight 20 times their usual limit.
Judging by the protype exo's, I'd say that there's no way to get a good lightweight power supply for them. As such, I'd think the girders would be needed so that the workers can tether themselves for not only a safety measure, but also a source of power for the exo's.
Granted, since it will be in the future there may be a backup battery that will last for a couple of hours for safety reasons...
robots would be used extensively. some would be mostly autonomous and would do things like fetch materials, inspection, or possibly welding (robots can weld already, but usually under extremely controlled assembly line conditions). other robots could be operated by telepresence, with a human operator in the ship or in a habitable section of the dock, for tasks that require too much skill for a robot. and of course you would still have people in space suits, but would only be called upon when absolutely required.
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I have a strange feeling that with power suits and robots working in vacuum won't be nearly as hard as it is today.
Compare a car without power steering to one with power steering. You could rotate the wheel with 1 finger on a stationary vehicle with PS, and without you need at least 1 whole hand to do anything.
The same will apply to power space suits vs regular space suits.
Probably off topic, but there's prototype exoskeletons that work today and allow a worker to lift a weight 20 times their usual limit.
Judging by the protype exo's, I'd say that there's no way to get a good lightweight power supply for them. As such, I'd think the girders would be needed so that the workers can tether themselves for not only a safety measure, but also a source of power for the exo's.
Granted, since it will be in the future there may be a backup battery that will last for a couple of hours for safety reasons...
robots would be used extensively. some would be mostly autonomous and would do things like fetch materials, inspection, or possibly welding (robots can weld already, but usually under extremely controlled assembly line conditions). other robots could be operated by telepresence, with a human operator in the ship or in a habitable section of the dock, for tasks that require too much skill for a robot. and of course you would still have people in space suits, but would only be called upon when absolutely required.
Ah, yes, but humans can be so much less costly than a robot in certain situations.
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I have a strange feeling that with power suits and robots working in vacuum won't be nearly as hard as it is today.
Compare a car without power steering to one with power steering. You could rotate the wheel with 1 finger on a stationary vehicle with PS, and without you need at least 1 whole hand to do anything.
The same will apply to power space suits vs regular space suits.
Probably off topic, but there's prototype exoskeletons that work today and allow a worker to lift a weight 20 times their usual limit.
Judging by the protype exo's, I'd say that there's no way to get a good lightweight power supply for them. As such, I'd think the girders would be needed so that the workers can tether themselves for not only a safety measure, but also a source of power for the exo's.
Granted, since it will be in the future there may be a backup battery that will last for a couple of hours for safety reasons...
robots would be used extensively. some would be mostly autonomous and would do things like fetch materials, inspection, or possibly welding (robots can weld already, but usually under extremely controlled assembly line conditions). other robots could be operated by telepresence, with a human operator in the ship or in a habitable section of the dock, for tasks that require too much skill for a robot. and of course you would still have people in space suits, but would only be called upon when absolutely required.
Ah, yes, but humans can be so much less costly than a robot in certain situations.
i dont know about that, id figure a decent space suit would cost about the same as a robot.
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I have a strange feeling that with power suits and robots working in vacuum won't be nearly as hard as it is today.
Compare a car without power steering to one with power steering. You could rotate the wheel with 1 finger on a stationary vehicle with PS, and without you need at least 1 whole hand to do anything.
The same will apply to power space suits vs regular space suits.
Probably off topic, but there's prototype exoskeletons that work today and allow a worker to lift a weight 20 times their usual limit.
Judging by the protype exo's, I'd say that there's no way to get a good lightweight power supply for them. As such, I'd think the girders would be needed so that the workers can tether themselves for not only a safety measure, but also a source of power for the exo's.
Granted, since it will be in the future there may be a backup battery that will last for a couple of hours for safety reasons...
robots would be used extensively. some would be mostly autonomous and would do things like fetch materials, inspection, or possibly welding (robots can weld already, but usually under extremely controlled assembly line conditions). other robots could be operated by telepresence, with a human operator in the ship or in a habitable section of the dock, for tasks that require too much skill for a robot. and of course you would still have people in space suits, but would only be called upon when absolutely required.
Ah, yes, but humans can be so much less costly than a robot in certain situations.
i dont know about that, id figure a decent space suit would cost about the same as a robot.
I don't know about that either, but I'd figure that, if space suits were mass-produced, they'd pretty cheap.
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I have a strange feeling that with power suits and robots working in vacuum won't be nearly as hard as it is today.
Compare a car without power steering to one with power steering. You could rotate the wheel with 1 finger on a stationary vehicle with PS, and without you need at least 1 whole hand to do anything.
The same will apply to power space suits vs regular space suits.
Probably off topic, but there's prototype exoskeletons that work today and allow a worker to lift a weight 20 times their usual limit.
Judging by the protype exo's, I'd say that there's no way to get a good lightweight power supply for them. As such, I'd think the girders would be needed so that the workers can tether themselves for not only a safety measure, but also a source of power for the exo's.
Granted, since it will be in the future there may be a backup battery that will last for a couple of hours for safety reasons...
robots would be used extensively. some would be mostly autonomous and would do things like fetch materials, inspection, or possibly welding (robots can weld already, but usually under extremely controlled assembly line conditions). other robots could be operated by telepresence, with a human operator in the ship or in a habitable section of the dock, for tasks that require too much skill for a robot. and of course you would still have people in space suits, but would only be called upon when absolutely required.
Ah, yes, but humans can be so much less costly than a robot in certain situations.
i dont know about that, id figure a decent space suit would cost about the same as a robot.
I don't know about that either, but I'd figure that, if space suits were mass-produced, they'd pretty cheap.
same can be said for robots
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Hey Black Wolf, I'm considering making some installation components that would be compatible with your construction kit, I was wondering what the standards would be?
I'm looking for size standards (1 "cell" = 10m cube?), and docking standards (distance between the dockpoint dummies, naming conventions).
Do you think it would be OK to have more than one dockpoint at the same spot? I'm thinking of making a few pieces that can be docked at different angles by simply choosing which dockpoint to attach to, but I don't know if this is allowed by the game engine.
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Has there been any progress lately in making more custom modular stuff? I've been having a lot of fun building with these the past months and I'd love to see more modules, station parts, and the whole assortment of things that I can't even think of right now ^^.
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Has there been any progress lately in making more custom modular stuff? I've been having a lot of fun building with these the past months and I'd love to see more modules, station parts, and the whole assortment of things that I can't even think of right now ^^.
There's plans for the FringeSpace installations to built entirely out of modular stuff, but I can't say when we'll be able to release them...
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Yeah that doesn't really help FS2 folks much...
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Yeah that doesn't really help FS2 folks much...
Well there's some parts that may of be some use. A dish is a dish...
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OK, lemme give a bit of an update here. New stuff has been made. At releasable level I have a turret and a rotating sensor dish. I also have a bunch of cables which need to be tweaked (slightly rescaled, and split into submodels), but are near releasable. The only issue keeping them from release is that the UV space isn't being utilized to its full potential - I want to make a few more pieces prior to releasing this lot, but I've struggled for ideas. I have a sort of array of panels modelled and about half UVed, which should use up some of the remaining space.
As far as modular installations go, I'm yet to get past the initial snag of making it just modular enough, i.e. How do you design something that can be put together out of components that are small enough to produce a diverse range of station designs, but large enough to prevent people from losing sanity putting it together (or, more significantly, running into the inherent engine problems of having too many objects in mission and docking too many together)? I have started the process, but it's s tad difficult getting both inspiration and time (especially to UV and texture). One of my failed attempts turned into that station I posted on modding last week.
Z - I've always based everything around the single girder cell (10 x 10, as you say) and the 5 cel (44m long). The girder lengths are (# cells x 9)-1, but if you want to dock in a perpendicular orientation, you need to add 10m to the dockpoint separation distance to allow for a unit cell on either end. Almost everything fits together neatly, except for the black cross cube, which I made in a hurry, and so is scaled badly.
As for dockpoints on top of each other at different angles, this does work - the system is in place for the 90 degree bends on the pipes.
If you have some ideas, I'd appreciate any new pieces. If people are really keen, then once I get back from work (a couple of days from now) I can upload my WiPs, as long as there's an underdstanding that they are just that, and might be tweaked before being finalized.
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You need to rescale the cables because they're too thick amrite?
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Well I mean Tachyon is the land of piecemeal stuff.. there's not a cap ship or structure that isn't made out of parts
used elseware or duplicated. If you want a longer look into Tach let me know.
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This goes nicely with the pack... (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=77700.msg1539493#msg1539493) Though I expect it might need a few tweaks to really make it work, BW. Feel free.
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Droid - Well, actually the ring around the cables, but the end result will be thinner cables, yes. :p
Mjn - It most certainly does go well, but any tweaks that may be needed are well beyond my poffing capabilities I'm afraid. I can't even get the DAE exporter to work - I still have to use truespace. :(
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I've always based everything around the single girder cell (10 x 10, as you say) and the 5 cel (44m long). The girder lengths are (# cells x 9)-1, but if you want to dock in a perpendicular orientation, you need to add 10m to the dockpoint separation distance to allow for a unit cell on either end. Almost everything fits together neatly, except for the black cross cube, which I made in a hurry, and so is scaled badly.
As for dockpoints on top of each other at different angles, this does work - the system is in place for the 90 degree bends on the pipes.
Thanks Wolf, I'll make of note of it somewhere and will hopefully get started on the Tach stuff "soon."
If you have some ideas, I'd appreciate any new pieces. If people are really keen, then once I get back from work (a couple of days from now) I can upload my WiPs, as long as there's an understanding that they are just that, and might be tweaked before being finalized.
A few ideas came to mind:
Modular oxygen plant unit
Nuke/Crystal/etc. power plant unit
Garbage compactor/disposal unit
Gardening unit
observatory unit
communicaitons/command unit
repair unit (complete with "Workin' at the Car Wash" song)
Safety/navigation lights unit
generic processing plant unit
Hope those suggestions help everyone?
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Keep up the good work! I was actually using some of your modular models yesterday. :)
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I want to add the need for Crew Modules, bar-like modules, and other things to be able to really create a civilian station that feels like a place people would live in for long periods of time.
Looking forward to see any new additions though.
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For those who are interested, this is what modular bases look like at the moment (http://imagebin.org/168931). It's imagebin, so the link will expire eventually. What you see there is made from 2 pieces - the bevelled bit and the flat fronted bit - where they join is pretty obvious. You can also see the dishes, turret and cables. I still have some work to do with diversity, obviously. I'm going to be grabbing a few pieces off that outpost I posted the other week (The "Claws", which are designed to integrate with the Kit anyway, and likely the pods), and doing some more large chunk type pieces, but I'm not quite sure exactly how to design them. I am working on it though.
[EDIT]My bad, you can't actually see the dishes in that particular shot, but I'm sure I've posted a pic of them before.
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Another imagebin pic - another type of possible hab module (http://imagebin.org/168968), but with a lot more work involved. Going down the biodome route means something to fill them with, which adds quite a bit of work
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Another imagebin pic - another type of possible hab module (http://imagebin.org/168968), but with a lot more work involved. Going down the biodome route means something to fill them with, which adds quite a bit of work
Maybe just have them opaque or semi-opaque Eden Project (http://www.edenproject.com/whats-it-all-about/index.php)-style for now? Assume they have an artificial lighting system running inside, which would be good if the crops/scene they're growing needs light and day settings or a controlled environment anyhow.
Love how these are coming along though Black Wolf; the people of the GTA thank you! (well they would... if they had a voice... :lol:)
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Awesome! Ever think of adding solar panels?
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Awesome! Ever think of adding solar panels?
As a matter of fact... (http://imagebin.org/169044)
:D
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Awesome! Ever think of adding solar panels?
As a matter of fact... (http://imagebin.org/169044)
:D
Sexy. But can you make larger variations? I was building a spaceport using a custom Installation model and your modular kit (sadly an older version) and a large spaceport/city might have several massive solar panels as opposed to lots of small ones. Just a thought.
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Sexy. But can you make larger variations? I was building a spaceport using a custom Installation model and your modular kit (sadly an older version) and a large spaceport/city might have several massive solar panels as opposed to lots of small ones. Just a thought.
Probably not - nothing personal, but I've nixed varying the sizes of things before - the reasons then still hold now:
I suggest to add bigger and smaller parts. (not just different lengths)
Problem there is that everything, at this point, is standardized around the single cell and 5 cell girders (except the umbilical dock, but that's already fixed on my end and will be fixed in the next version for you guys). Everything is 10x10 wide. Changing that would mean duplicating every piece in, say, 2x or 5x scale. I can think of uses (like appplying this stuff to destroyers rather than cruisers and corvettes), but I'm not really keen to include it as part of the basic pack, as it'd double the size. Resizing in PCS is now a fairly trivial matter though, so if someone needs big pieces for a mod, they'll be easy to make.
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Version 1.2 - http://www.mediafire.com/?xhrz4dh5znndwxn
Included everything bar the modular installation bits, which aren't really ready yet. Let me know if there are any bugs.
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dont forget modular turrets or perhaps some kind of defense module with a wide array of weapons, where you only need a couple to provide adequate firepower.
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:wtf:
Did you open the pack? It has a turret in there.. You really shouldn't need more than 1 or 2 turret designs though...
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This is awesome! Utility of this pack is almost unbounded. Can't wait for other types of modular turrets.
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:wtf:
Did you open the pack? It has a turret in there.. You really shouldn't need more than 1 or 2 turret designs though...
of course not, cant really say i intend to make use of it. mission design is not really my area of expertise. i just thought it would be kinda cool to have guns, and didnt see any mention of them.
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I downloaded the latest pack, and my virus scanner reported the presence of Univ.script/99a. :blah:
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(http://blogs.pcmag.com/securitywatch/fail-owned-spyware-fail.jpg)
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a sort of robotic arm mounted on the girders using them as rails would be Pretty cool too, and a missile launcher turret, along with some force field projectors maybe? and you know... that sort of modules, space fusion reactors, science stations, warp nasceles (i know i know lol...), and maybe don't make them indestructible... it would be really cool if when hit by a bomb for example, they explode with some radial splash damage, thus causing a chain reaction that you can see advancing and destroying each adjacent piece.
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I downloaded the latest pack, and my virus scanner reported the presence of Univ.script/99a. :blah:
What's virustotal.com say?
EDIT: 0/44 virus scanning engines detected a threat... must be false positive (http://www.virustotal.com/file-scan/report.html?id=f85ed47c8b4aef77b6dc894e1650251f581f65fe13eecd365d5708ec981cbd6f-1314382957)
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i wish virus programmers would go back to writing their own libraries instead of #including commonly used ones :D
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I just downloaded it again and got the same thing. :rolleyes: McAfee says that it's limited to readme.txt though. Can someone quote it here?
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Freespace Modular Construction Kit
By Black Wolf
This is the 1.2 version of the Freespace modular construction kit, used to create drydocks and small installations from a series of small pieces in FRED. There will most likely be future versions with more parts, especially habitation modules. That said, any modders who feel like adding to the collection are more than welcome to do so.
The kit contains the following pieces:
- A single girder cube
- A five cell girder (open ended)
- An eleven cell girder (open ended)
- A twenty three cell girder (open ended)
- A Small cap plate
- A Docking ring
- An Umbilical dock, to connect ships inside the drydock with the ouside world
- A Short umbilical connector
- A 90 degree bent umbilical connector
- A cube/cross connector piece
- A large docking pad
- A series of Solar-type Panels
- A Modular Turret
- A modular sensor dish
- A set of cables
- A "Biodome" Type habitable area
In addition, two mods that are not directly a part of the kit have been included, a cargo platform (included as one of the models uses one of its textures) and a gas tank cargo container (as a stand-in for a habitation module until a better one is made).
One mod that has not been included but, in my opinion, fits very well with the kit is the GTDk Acropolis Fighter dock. If you choose to add the Acropolis to your kit, it is most easily found via the FSWiki -
http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/GTDk_Acropolis
Another useful model is the GTDr Phidias, or Colossus Construction Drone, by MjnMixael. It is also available from the wiki here:
http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Phidias
An associated model, the 3301, is available here:
http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/GTDr_3301
All of the models have been tested with Freespace Open 3.6.12, and there's no reson why they shouldn't work with earlier or later builds, to a point. They will not work with retail for a bunch of reasons, most significantly the lack of multidocking support.
Some Tips for FREDders
- Position your items in FRED by docking them together, but use the "Jettison-cargo" sexp at the start of the mission to break the girders up into their component pieces for the actual game. The engine struggles with the physics of docked ships at the best of times, and multidocking potentially dozens of things together can give it a heart attack if anything shoots or collides with the docked meshes.
- Some of the pieces have multiple docks, sometimes to allow cargo to dock, other times to give different orientations. Play with the docking to get it right.
- The texture-replacement feature in FRED is very useful for getting more diversity out of a limited set of models. Access it through the Ships editor
- Always choose a single, easily identified piece of material in any docked set and make note of its coordinates, or place it somewhere easy to remember like 0,0,0. This will be very useful when FRED decides to drag your carefully positioned drydock as one unit a few hundred metres out of place trying to dock something incorrectly.
- Also, don't stress is FRED suddenly seems to scatter your pieces all over the place - this is a multidocking issue, but it's easily rectified by just moving your construct up or down on one of its axes, then back into place, or even just right clicking on something and using the Position and Orientation editor. As long as everything is docked together and not just placed there, it will snap together.
- Set all your pieces to hostile, protect ship and stealth in the ships editor to avoid filling the Radar with dots. You may also want to use invulnerable, but that's up to you.
- Recent builds of the SCP have the ability to define objects as immobile, using the "Does not Move" checkbox in the ships editor. This is very useful.
- Be creative! The parts are designed to be as flexible as possible, so all sorts of shapes and combinations are possible. In addition, standard sizes have been used for most of the pieces, and so additions to the kit are very welcome.
NOTE - Although pretty heavily tested, the occasional bug may have crept in. Please let me know via the Hard Light Productions forums:
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php.
While you're there, check out this thread for some cool ideas about how to use your kit:
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=74116.0
(But please, if you're downloading this in the distant future, don't bump the thread without good cause - that ticks people off).
CHANGES SINCE PREVIOUS VERSION:
Obviously, new pieces have been added. Also, changes have been made to a few dockpoints to make them more useful - the TGas1 has gained additional dockpoints, and a bug with the 90 degree umbilical connector has been fixed (dockpoint aligned on the wrong axis).
FUTURE PLANS:
Proper Habitation modules for modular outposts. Promise.
NOTES REGARDING THE BIODOME:
The Biodome is currently in limbo due to FSO's inability to handle transparency properly - it's only capable of rendering one model behind a translucent surface, hence anything that lives in the biodome is invisible. It's been included so that, if someone wants to use it, they can, but I would strongly reccomend that they use an opaque texture for the glass.
CREDITS:
All models and textures created by myself, Black Wolf, except the Fen08 texture, which came from the Inferno mod.
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I found your problem....
McAfee says
Try a real Anti-Virus... like AVG, Avira, or Avast...
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AVG actually failed to catch a virus that required me to wipe and refresh one of my spare laptops. So I question your judgement there.
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I'm using COMODO, and while it's a bit too restrictive (for instance, marking some mostly harmless cracks and, curiously, VLC player as viruses), it does it's job very well. I never had any virus problems (though this may be also because I'm a generally careful person and use Opera instead of a more popular browser).
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Anti-Virus software on jr2's hatelist:
#1: Norton
#2: McAffee
Both have failed to detect viruses in the past (although, that was a long time ago). Also, I have seen both FUBAR a system when they uninstall incorrectly and get stuck in a state of not being installed (so they can't be uninstalled), whilst also still being resident and half-active in the system (so they can't be re-installed, "please uninstall old versions first", etc) and also the internet is usually borked, as the firewall is half-uninstalled or has gone into a paranoia state of self-preservation. (Useful, but usually doesn't get the viruses, they usually manage to shut down the AV soft and firewall.)
*Note: these are the opinions of jr2. They are not to be taken as a unilateral statement of fact. Please don't get hyper-defensive if your favorite AV software is Norton or McAffee.
Personally, I do like AVG (now, anyways, they've improved a lot). But I like MS Security Essentials even more (I've switched to using them, as they've cleaned up the issues they initially had.)
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I use Avast. Free n good. Also, keep up the good work on the construction kit!
The ISS has external thrusters to move the station to avoid debris. Maybe a new piece to add could be large thrusters?
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gah how the hell did this thread became an antivirus discussion thread?
PD:
MSE for the win.
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It didn't. Or, it shouldn't. Enough AV stuff please.
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anyhow so back to the original topic... a robotic arm mounted on the girders using them as rails would be Pretty cool too, and a missile launcher turret, along with some force field projectors, science stations, and maybe don't make them indestructible... it would be really cool if when hit by a bomb for example, they explode with some radial splash damage, thus causing a chain reaction that you can see advancing and destroying each adjacent piece.
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anyhow so back to the original topic... a robotic arm mounted on the girders using them as rails would be Pretty cool too,
I think there was something about rails not being able to work at the moment, about the only closest thing to rail movement would to have the arm hop from dockpoint to dockpoint. Could try bugging the coders about it. :D
and maybe don't make them indestructible... it would be really cool if when hit by a bomb for example, they explode with some radial splash damage, thus causing a chain reaction that you can see advancing and destroying each adjacent piece.
If I remember correctly, Black Wolf had already tried that, but ended up crashing... I'm not sure what all would be needed to prevent that (from crashing).
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hmmm well i don't see why it would crash ... must be something weird, since when capital ships for example explode, often their splash kills o ther small ships around, nothing prevents said smaller ships own blast from killing even smaller ships around...
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Bizarrely, for some reason adding the -mod Modular 1.2 tag to my launcher command line (features section) has no effect.
I say bizarre, as every other mod adds in totally fine.
Any ideas?
I've copy-pasted the EXACT name from the folder, no joy.
Bh
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select it from the mod tab instead of the features tab? I'd also say get rid of the space in the name, but spaces in mod names seem to work for me.
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No differences.
BUT if it put the MCK files into a mod folder that DOES work (EG a certain circular space station :) ) then they DO show up in FRED2.
Very weird.
BH
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There cannot be any spaces in the directory path. Try renaming folder to Modular_1_2