Hard Light Productions Forums
Hosted Projects - Standalone => Wing Commander Saga => Topic started by: Jake2447 on March 22, 2012, 05:22:42 pm
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Is there a way I can use the Freespace style mouse controls? I know it was changed to match the controls in the WC games, but I prefer the Freespace style.
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Uh, could you be a bit more specific? Where exactly?
I was wondering the same. I masively prefer the Freespace style mouse controll. This new style actively dimishes my fun with the game as targeting is a major pain in the a** and I cant hit the broadside of a barn.
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yes i agree..
The classic Freespace Mouse Control is much better.
The idea behind this control is cool indeed but if you playing both games you will lost the aiming.
Ideal was a toggle between the 2 Mouse behaviors.
Greetings Peter
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I'm playing full keyboard because this mouse control is... 'not my cup of tea' to put it politely.
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http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/03/22/back-in-the-cockpit-wing-commander-saga/ :
Update: Comment-Hero Dominic White points out that you can adjust the deadzone problem from the joystick controls. I hadn’t really looked over there since I wasn’t using one, but a quick tweak there indeed completely fixes that control and makes the mouse floaty and lovely.
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The mouse control is sluggish for me in the menu system? FYI have all mouse acceleration disabled in Windows if that matters (via registry hacks etc. for FPS competition).
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You could turn up the sensitivity in windows... not sure if the in-game mouse sensitivity (F2 key) will change the menu responsiveness or not.
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I'm still downloading... did they actually adjust the mouse-handling code? Or is this using some variation of the mouse script?
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I'm guessing the latter, as the joystick deadzone options affect the mouse... but I really don't know for sure.
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I agree, please bring back the Freespace mouse control! With the current mouse control I fly and aim like a drunk and can't even hit a target directly in front of me :doubt:
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If it's a script, it should be fairly easy to override it with a dummy script of the same name. If it's hardcoded, then you're screwed.
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You could turn up the sensitivity in windows... not sure if the in-game mouse sensitivity (F2 key) will change the menu responsiveness or not.
To be clear, this has nothing to do with sensitivity or the deadzone (the joystick deadzone slider affect the mouse, btw). The problem here is, thats its a entirely different type of mouse control than in FS.
Freespace mouse control was like an FPS: the movement of the mouse directly translated into an equivalent turn of the ship. That means if you dont move the mouse, the ship will not turn. This has two effects:
1) to contantly turn you also have to move the mouse constantly in the same direction. If you reach the end of the mousepad or any other obstacle you have to lift the mouse and set it on a convinient spot at the mousepad manually.
BUT 2) it provides an extremely high precision with the ships "nose" itself.
With this new control scheme your position of the mouse cursor on the screen determines the direction and turnspeed of your ship. Instead of directly controling the ship you only set the direction and speed of the movement. This means if you want to stop turning you have to position the mouse cursor back into the center of the screen. But unlike a joystick, which has itself a center it can "snap" back to, there is no guidance for the mouse. It is very easy to miss the center or shoot the cursor way over in the other direction. The effect is a massive loss in precision.
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Totally agree with Zombimode, that is exactly the problem. I think it is better to keep the Freespace mouse control OR to adapt the control from Freelancer, which means that the position of the mouse cursor is were your weapons are shooting (so enemies don't have to be in the center of the screen to hit them). Maybe this would make the game too easy? Not sure.
However, the current solution is probably the worst I think :(
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I don't have any problem with the new mouse controls. I'm able to steer my fighter and aim very well.
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Yar! You need a toggle button, like in the toggleable mouse script link in my sig... so you can dynamically switch between this new mode (good for dogfighting) and FreeSpace mode (good for sniping!)
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Yar! You need a toggle button, like in the toggleable mouse script link in my sig... so you can dynamically switch between this new mode (good for dogfighting) and FreeSpace mode (good for sniping!)
This would be perfect
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So, perhaps if this is the result of a script you could install this one to WCS (just use WCS's directory instead of FS in the directions)
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We'll see what we can do. but keep in mind, this game was never designed for mouse in the first place. And during the beta we got overwhelming negative feedback for the original FS style Mouse controls...
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We'll see what we can do. but keep in mind, this game was never designed for mouse in the first place. And during the beta we got overwhelming negative feedback for the original FS style Mouse controls...
:wtf:
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The best will then be an option to switch on or off the new mouse behavior - this will be the best way. Then can everybody choice his favorite mouse steering system ;)
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We'll see what we can do. but keep in mind, this game was never designed for mouse in the first place. And during the beta we got overwhelming negative feedback for the original FS style Mouse controls...
...I
...I have to words to describe how silly that sounds to me.
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As I said, we'll see. Currently the original mouse controls are not even part of the build anymore. The UI doesn't offer any possibility to switch between two different mouse control options so this isn't as easy as just putting both in and that's it.
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Obligatory "don't fork next time"
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Obligatory "don't fork next time"
Obligatory "Nobody forces you to play the game..."
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OK guys calm down....
the new mouse control is bad for me, but i try again my joystick ;)
But i think in the near future the WCS team has an clue what is to do ;)
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As I said, I'll see what we can do about an alternative mouse control option. No promises though.
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Umm.. hot-toggle, bindable to a key, IMHO would be the best shot.
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Umm.. hot-toggle, bindable to a key, IMHO would be the best shot.
Leave it to us ;)
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:) EDIT: BTW, for whatever reason, touchpad doesn't pick it up. Maybe I have to enable the mouse or something. Got through mission 3 with numpad. Liking this game!
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Yeah, I definitely prefer the FS style mouse control. However, I don't find it that bad actually. Oh I hated it for sure at the start and couldn't hit anything. But now I've gotten used to it and am aiming almost as well as with a joystick.
**Joystick deadzone corresponds also to mouse deadzone, but you really need to bring it down to 1 or 2 pips to get good control
Certainly there're annoying bits like not being able to see the cursor over a bright background (dotted line from cursor to reticle would help), or coming out of autopilot into a wild slew. I'm actually quite impressed by how well the control scheme's been implemented. I think it'll be much easier for newcomers to get used to than FS mouse controls. So kudos to the team.
But of course, if you could make an option in the launcher for FS controls, I can go back to my mouse/numpad combo and start wasting cats with horrible efficiency...
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You guys need to go out and buy some Flight Sticks. Jesus.
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Hey, it's 2012. We're no archaeologists. Flight sticks were cool back in the 90s.
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Hey, it's 2012. We're no archaeologists. Flight sticks were cool back in the 90s.
And they're still cool. Go buy a joystick ! :)
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When can I expect the money you'll send me to buy it ?
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You guys need to go out and buy some Flight Sticks. Jesus.
So I can play WCS alone. No, I think not.
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You guys need to go out and buy some Flight Sticks. Jesus.
So I can play WCS alone. No, I think not.
Okay, I'm curious, how would a Flight-Stick make you play alone? Aren't you already playing alone? Its a single-player game. Even then, what about a Flight Stick prevents you from attempting multiplayer? Your logic escapes me.
Oh and Matt, just get a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro, they're modern sticks, 30 Bucks, and of good construction. They may not have force feedback, but they're good solid sticks.
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That's still 30 bucks I don't want to spend, thank you very much. I have a perfect input device in my hand here (no pun intended) and I don't intend to buy something I will use just for one mod that some people have managed to convince me to not play anyway.
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That's still 30 bucks I don't want to spend, thank you very much. I have a perfect input device in my hand here (no pun intended) and I don't intend to buy something I will use just for one mod that some people have managed to convince me to not play anyway.
Suit yourself. We are not forcing you to do anything anyway. :)
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That's still 30 bucks I don't want to spend, thank you very much. I have a perfect input device in my hand here (no pun intended) and I don't intend to buy something I will use just for one mod that some people have managed to convince me to not play anyway.
Somebody is being a negative nancy.
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That's still 30 bucks I don't want to spend, thank you very much. I have a perfect input device in my hand here (no pun intended) and I don't intend to buy something I will use just for one mod that some people have managed to convince me to not play anyway.
Why don't you see the good thing to have a joystick ? It's not only for SAGA, but all the mods for Freespace 2 or all games that support Joystick. And 30 € is very cheap and if you can afford to get one with force feedback, you can't go back to mouse control. Count all the time you will play with it, you won't waste your money.
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Your argument presuppose I will play many games with the joystick if I buy it. I don't intend to, if I can avoid it. That's why I have a mouse and a keyboard for. So, no thanks.
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That's still 30 bucks I don't want to spend, thank you very much. I have a perfect input device in my hand here (no pun intended) and I don't intend to buy something I will use just for one mod that some people have managed to convince me to not play anyway.
Why don't you see the good thing to have a joystick ? It's not only for SAGA, but all the mods for Freespace 2 or all games that support Joystick. And 30 € is very cheap and if you can afford to get one with force feedback, you can't go back to mouse control. Count all the time you will play with it, you won't waste your money.
I'm not willing to spend the (considerable) money OR desk space it would require to get a joystick that has as good small-movement precision as even a $10 mouse.
I actually bought a T-Flight Hotas X a year or so ago. I resold it about three weeks later out of frustration.
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Well, it is a matter of habit. The first time, sure, playing with joystick is painful while it is about precision. But the more time you play with, you'll get acustom with and be better. There are thing you couldn't do with a mouse like doing some sort of super maneuver and well you don't have force feedback with a mouse.
Ok, HOTAS don't have force feedback either except the Logitech G940.
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Some maneuvers simply can't be done with a mouse. Simple as that. And there is truly a no more rewarding feeling than feeling like a Top Gun Ace rocking the missiles and lasers into the assholes of every enemy pilot you come across.
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Some maneuvers simply can't be done with a mouse. Simple as that. And there is truly a no more rewarding feeling than feeling like a Top Gun Ace rocking the missiles and lasers into the assholes of every enemy pilot you come across.
This.
I never understood why mousecontrols were used in a spacesim anyway.
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The same reason why every game with a form of flight has mouse control? So everyone has an option?
I'd say the same thing about keyboard control, but what I just said immediately invalidates that argument.
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Some maneuvers simply can't be done with a mouse. Simple as that. And there is truly a no more rewarding feeling than feeling like a Top Gun Ace rocking the missiles and lasers into the assholes of every enemy pilot you come across.
This.
I never understood why mousecontrols were used in a spacesim anyway.
This is quickly getting really dumb.
If you seriously can't figure that out... :doubt:
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Hasn't QD been over this to death? The keyboard gives you fast turning. The mouse gives precision. Joysticks fall somewhere in-between. That's why he uses the keyboard and mouse together.
I'm not sure where the WC-style mouse would fall, but I'm guessing somewhere near joysticks. For me, the more options the better. But I find myself using the keyboard more with this, so it's all good.
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Some maneuvers simply can't be done with a mouse. Simple as that.
That's why I ALSO have a keyboard at hand's reach. Simple as that.
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I'm not sure where the WC-style mouse would fall, but I'm guessing somewhere near joysticks.
Is there even a word for it? As far as I'm aware the best definition for it is joystick-emulated.
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Hm. There must be another name, since it's quite common. It's the same thing when I click the mouse wheel to scroll smoothly. And when I highlight more than a page of text. Certainly neither of those are emulating a joystick.
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EDIT: And XBOX360 wired controllers work with and Windows XP on up PC or laptop with a free USB port. Not sure about PS controllers, but XBOX360 should be around $30 IIRC... gotta check that. ... yup, $30 incl shipping (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16874103205).
You could always get one of those, and use XPadder / PPJoy / all that good jazz.
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Well, it is a matter of habit. The first time, sure, playing with joystick is painful while it is about precision. But the more time you play with, you'll get acustom with and be better. There are thing you couldn't do with a mouse like doing some sort of super maneuver and well you don't have force feedback with a mouse.
I should probably clarify that when Freespace/Freespace 2 first appeared, I played them with a joystick. Trust me, I know what a good joystick feels like, and have probably logged a thousand hours of my life into various flight & space sims with a joystick. :) I'm not sure what "super maneuvers" you're talking about, but with a mouse and a smart keyboard mapping I feel like I can pull off all of the moves I want, without sacrificing precision, even in a 6DOF environment (Which neither WCS nor Freespace is). This gets even better if I can use the toggleable scripted mouse, and switch between "Freespace-Style" and "WCS-style" mouse flight at the click of a button.
That said, I can't argue with the fact that joystick (especially HOTAS) just plain feels cool and can be lots of fun. :) I've just discovered that it isn't for me, and that mouse+kb is perfectly viable and effective.
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Choice is good. I personally like my G940 HOTAS with force feedback, especially used with trackIR pro. But there are some things to keep in mind. Cheap joysticks can often bring more frustration than anything else to the table, and not everyone is willing to shell out 300$ or above for a top of the line system. Nor sacrifice so much desk space, or go through the trouble of setting the whole thing up, pedals, throttle and stick included, to work right with every game you want to use it for.
So while I personally don't like to play with mouse only, saying "buy a good stick" to anyone who wants to doesn't seem like a good policy to me.
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I'm also owner of a G940 (because I play a lot of flight sims when I have time to) and I admit I now play the game with an old MS Sidewinder Precicion Pro because my arm really hurt after playing with the G940. The Force Feedback feels good, but it is rather strong, and the G940 is also more precise, but the problem is that you have to move the stick much farther to achieve the correct response. (ok, maybe I could make it more sensitive... I'll try that)
Also I don't seem to be able to assign the throttle (including all the buttons on the throttle) and my rudder pedals to the controls. Is it even possible to use joysticks in FSO that consist of more than one USB device?
That's why I use the other stick at the moment. I'm not that good with mouse controls. I've never been.
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I'm also owner of a G940 (because I play a lot of flight sims when I have time to) and I admit I now play the game with an old MS Sidewinder Precicion Pro because my arm really hurt after playing with the G940. The Force Feedback feels good, but it is rather strong, and the G940 is also more precise, but the problem is that you have to move the stick much farther to achieve the correct response. (ok, maybe I could make it more sensitive... I'll try that)
You can adjust the strength and resistance of the stick easily. I've had no such problems.
Also I don't seem to be able to assign the throttle (including all the buttons on the throttle) and my rudder pedals to the controls. Is it even possible to use joysticks in FSO that consist of more than one USB device?
That's because Logitech, in it's infinite wisdom, decided it's a good idea to have G940 register the stick, pedals and throttle to windows as 3 separate devices. This means that any game that doesn't support 3 input devices like that aren't going to work with it.
Unless you use ppjoy. It's a free app that will take any input devices you might have and combine them into a single "virtual" joystick. You then tell any game (FS2_open based stuff too) to use the ppjoy virtual joystick as the input device. Works pretty well for me, but it is a bit of work to get it working right under windows 7 64 bit. It's possible though. This also illustrates why it's a good idea not to nerf mouse controls.. some people aren't going to want to go through the trouble of setting it all up.
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That's really cool,
I'll try that, thanks!
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That's because Logitech, in it's infinite wisdom, decided it's a good idea to have G940 register the stick, pedals and throttle to windows as 3 separate devices. This means that any game that doesn't support 3 input devices like that aren't going to work with it.
Unless you use ppjoy. It's a free app that will take any input devices you might have and combine them into a single "virtual" joystick. You then tell any game (FS2_open based stuff too) to use the ppjoy virtual joystick as the input device. Works pretty well for me, but it is a bit of work to get it working right under windows 7 64 bit. It's possible though. This also illustrates why it's a good idea not to nerf mouse controls.. some people aren't going to want to go through the trouble of setting it all up.
Shouldn't G940 come with a special app to do just that? CH Products HOTAS does, and every Logitech device I have came with it's own manager, capable of doing various neat things such as setting macros, assigning letters to buttons and axes and calibrating the device. Usualy there's also a game-specific profiler.
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You guys need to go out and buy some Flight Sticks. Jesus.
So I can play WCS alone. No, I think not.
Okay, I'm curious, how would a Flight-Stick make you play alone? Aren't you already playing alone? Its a single-player game. Even then, what about a Flight Stick prevents you from attempting multiplayer? Your logic escapes me.
Oh and Matt, just get a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro, they're modern sticks, 30 Bucks, and of good construction. They may not have force feedback, but they're good solid sticks.
He's saying he's not going to go out and pay money for a flightstick he'll only use for WCS.
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@Dragon:
There is such a program and until now it worked perfectly, I use the stick for some old DOS games like Privateer for example. In the worst case I define the throttle buttons as keyboard commands. No Problem until now. But somehow Saga does not even recognize a key is being pressed, which is really weird.
I'll try again and test it, though, perhaps it was my fault.
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@Dragon:
There is such a program and until now it worked perfectly, I use the stick for some old DOS games like Privateer for example. In the worst case I define the throttle buttons as keyboard commands. No Problem until now. But somehow Saga does not even recognize a key is being pressed, which is really weird.
I'll try again and test it, though, perhaps it was my fault.
That's because Saga, like any other FS2_Open based game, only recognizes one input device. G940 consists of 3 separate ones. Meaning you you tell Saga to use the stick, it won't see the throttle and pedals, etc. So when you push a button on the throttle, it won't be recognized. The software that came with the stick doesn't allow to combine all 3 devices so windows see it as one. Yes you can define macros and stuff but you can never have a profile that reports it all as a single device to windows. Without that, games that don't support multiple input devices won't work. Well, they'll work, but they'll only recognize one of the devices. Flying with only pedals without the stick or a throttle isn't much fun.. Logitech doesn't seem interested in fixing it, either. And I'm guessing the SCP have better things to do than code in multiple input device support, too.. after looking everywhere, the only solution I've found was ppjoy.
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Well, that's not really a problem for me, I'll simply use PPjoy. (or continue using my other stick which is also ok)
I just wondered where that came from since this is the first time I encountered that particular problem. :)
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Actually, I've just found this:
http://forum.ea.com/eaforum/posts/list/7665701.page
Specifically, this:
Solution: G940 works fine in both BF2 and BF3 (all flight axes fully analog).
The problem is with the way the Logitech software creates 3 controllers. You have to go to device manager, uninstall the "logitech game controller" or whatever it is called and make sure to select the box to permantly delete the device drivers. Now click the scan for hardware changes button and Windows will install the default driver. Now we have one G940 controller in "devices and printers."
May want to calibrate at this point.
Now that we have one controller, both games can fully utilize the G940. BF2 is a little more difficult as you have to manually edit the controls.con file. A quick search can pull that up but we are here to talk about Battlefield 3 because flying around with my G940 is pretty freaking awesome.
Note that I haven't tested this yet so I can't say whether or not it will work. But I'm going to check when I get home. If it works it's a much better, practical solution than ppjoy.
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Your logic escapes me.
You're reading alone as though it is not in reference to the word immediately proceeding it, but to some other context that does not exist within the statement you have responded to.
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Can anyone point me to a working download location for a x64 capable version of PPjoy? All Downloads I found are 404...
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Actually, I've just found this:
http://forum.ea.com/eaforum/posts/list/7665701.page
Specifically, this:
Solution: G940 works fine in both BF2 and BF3 (all flight axes fully analog).
The problem is with the way the Logitech software creates 3 controllers. You have to go to device manager, uninstall the "logitech game controller" or whatever it is called and make sure to select the box to permantly delete the device drivers. Now click the scan for hardware changes button and Windows will install the default driver. Now we have one G940 controller in "devices and printers."
May want to calibrate at this point.
Now that we have one controller, both games can fully utilize the G940. BF2 is a little more difficult as you have to manually edit the controls.con file. A quick search can pull that up but we are here to talk about Battlefield 3 because flying around with my G940 is pretty freaking awesome.
Note that I haven't tested this yet so I can't say whether or not it will work. But I'm going to check when I get home. If it works it's a much better, practical solution than ppjoy.
Perhaps, after installing the generic driver, you could then disable that driver, install the manufacturer ones, then disable them and re-enable the generic drivers, letting you switch between them? Or will the OEM drivers uninstall the disabled generic driver?
Can anyone point me to a working download location for a x64 capable version of PPjoy? All Downloads I found are 404...
I just finished downloading all of the following files:
Driver Signature Enforcement Overrider:
http://www.ngohq.com/home.php?page=dseo
Here you can get the following versions (0.83, 0.845, 0.846)
http://www.4shared.com/archive/9bwBd488/ppjoy.html
Source Code (coders can has compile quick with no bother, or is it hard?)
http://www.4shared.com/zip/xaBqntQI/PPJoyOpenSource084.html
If you can get the control panel app to build I will be forever in your debt.
I do not take any credit for this, just something I found on the internet that 1) fixes the control panel (still cannot get the compiled one to run on win 7 x64) and 2) it fixes your VID thing.
http://www.mediafire.com/?1g2a71cygydq84o
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First off, great mod.
I completed playing it but had issues with the mouse controls. I do have my choice of flightstick/gamepad. Slightly older but were expensive, good quality when new. I dislike using them due to crappy precision and lack of comfort for long term play(every one I've tried). Really despise force-feedback, so not a selling point. Have always preferred kb-mouse. Even best flightsicks have used, almost always have to take a hand off controls to hit a button or two on the keyboard for some function or other; yet another needless distraction. It would be nice if the game engine (FS2 as well) would recognise that my mouse has 7 buttons instead of merely 3.
The mouse position pointer in-game has a tendency to freak out and jump all over the screen whenever facing debris, asteroids, or get close to complicated geometry capships, sending my ship in a crazy spinning tumble that takes time to stop, as have to try and locate rapidly flickering and position roaming pointer just to try to correct the tumbling. Happens in almost every mission, especially if trying to accellerate or hit ab when approaching these objects. Sensitivity and deadzone changes do squat. Even reduced the dpi settings for the mouse to lowest possible in its control applet but no luck. I had to extract the missions and reduce the asteroid field densities to about 100 just to get a reasonably ability to play where they are present. As for the capships, had no choice but to put up with a follow-the-bouncing-ball routine on sight of one, then stop and ever so slowly gently twitch the mouse and tap accel toward the target. Much irritating self-death ensued. I don't mind if my frame rate occassionally sags below 20. It would still be playable. With the present control set-up, it is not just a framerate problem. It is an uncontrollable issue. This is not a problem with the FS2 setup under similar circumstances. I've checked with similarily detailed models in the latest RC build.
The FS2 mouse controls were a lot better for kb-m play than the WC versions. It's impressive to see a team add in an authentic idea like this from WC, but it was always an irritating, distracting detraction from game enjoyment for myself. I would have been a lot happier to see it optional or left in the dustbin.
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Perhaps, after installing the generic driver, you could then disable that driver, install the manufacturer ones, then disable them and re-enable the generic drivers, letting you switch between them? Or will the OEM drivers uninstall the disabled generic driver?
I tried it with the generic driver yesterday. Diaspora seemed to work, all the axes got recognized when setting up controls in the f2 menu. But for some reason the game wouldn't register throttle movement no matter what I tried.
WCS, on the other hand, saw "G940" in the launcher, but failed to recognize any inputs either in the f2 menu or the game. I ended up restoring the logitech driver and using ppjoy again. Which is a shame because ppjoy doesn't recognize enough buttons / axes so I can't use the hat mini stick, stuff like that. Would have been awesome to use that for thruster control.
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That mouse control actually brings me back to the days I first played WC and couldn't hit a damn thing, except that was with a flight stick.
Anyway, while I do feel a little frustrated at times, I believe I'm well on my way to getting used to it.
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You can now stop whining. First patch (http://www.wcsaga.com/forum/index.php?f=3&t=591&rb_v=viewtopic) is available and it adds FS2 style mouse control. Yes, we are listening.
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Thanks. will give it a try. As well, can't say it enough: Thak-you for your labours. You people have accomplished what few ever do outside a professional dev studio.
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You can now stop whining. First patch (http://www.wcsaga.com/forum/index.php?f=3&t=591&rb_v=viewtopic) is available and it adds FS2 style mouse control. Yes, we are listening.
You guys are awesome.
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The FS2 option in the patch cleared up the loss of control issue perfectly. Still jumpy in the situations above but this is due to my hardware, and much easier to compensate for during play. Fine job folks. Well done!
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Thanks for the fix.
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Yes, thanks for that. I was afraid i will be forced to uninstall it.
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TL;DR: [David Banner]Please don't make me angry.[/David Banner]
I'm pleased to see WCS Team address this issue so well.
What I'm not so pleased with is the several posts that had no meaningful contribution to the issue and the near directly hostile tone that they took. And while I have no wish to moderate issues that I know the WCS Mods are more than capable of handling, I would like to say that I don't want to see it repeating itself ever again. Because I also would have fully supported WCS to NOT have patched in FS style controls just based on the tone that some of these posts took (Especially the ones levied against WCS Team Members directly).
And that would have benefited nobody in the long run.
Thanks for the patch for the controls and the dedication it took to get to a release.
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Thanks for the patch for the controls and the dedication it took to get to a release.
As mentioned before, we are listening to feedback and are making necessary alterations. However, hostilities towards team members will no longer be tolerated and such posts will be deleted without advanced notice.
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Thanks, this is so awesome!
EDIT: Woo, cats don't stand a chance now! :D
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I have to say, I'm having a blast with this game. It feels like Wing Commander. Admittedly the only Wing Commander game I've played previously was Prophecy, but the feel is right. The missions are long, but that feels right too. I never remember having any short missions to speak of playing Prophecy. I miss the walking around the ship parts, but I can manage without them. I think I may just have to treat myself to Wing Commander 1-3 as a birthday present so that I can learn about the story up to this point in the universe, as well as what happens with the people everyone is buying time for.
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I'd be curious to see if the WCS Team uses FPS elements once they are integrated into FreeSpace (that is, if that's still planned; I saw it once on a table of suggested features that the SCP guys were going to try to do).
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I had been wondering if it was possible to adapt the interface scripting to allow for the interactive elements, myself. Wing Commanger, as far as I know, never had shooter elements, but you could go to different parts of the ship and talk to people. Depending on who you talked to and what you said, it could have an affect on the outcome of some of the missions, like a wingman staying alive instead of getting himself killed, for example.
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I'm sure it would be possible code-wise after a lot of work. But art-wise, we're talking such an incredible amount of work that I wouldn't count on seeing this feature. Making the actual ship interiors would be the least of your problems; modeling and texturing characters is a lot more work, and character animation is the most difficult type of animation to pull off looking right. I think I'd rather see that much work pulled towards new campaigns, tbh.
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You can now stop whining. First patch (http://www.wcsaga.com/forum/index.php?f=3&t=591&rb_v=viewtopic) is available and it adds FS2 style mouse control. Yes, we are listening.
Thanks. Without this I really couldn't enjoy WCS at all. I play with a mouse and joystick (plus very few keyboard commands) and use the mouse for precision aiming and firing.
I don't see people whining, I see them wanting to enjoy your game and giving feedback that the controls are a major barrier. Maybe I don't understand the context though.
With the FS mouse control option it's been really fun so far, though I also had to turn up the difficulty (now that I can fly/shoot straight).
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You can now stop whining. First patch (http://www.wcsaga.com/forum/index.php?f=3&t=591&rb_v=viewtopic) is available and it adds FS2 style mouse control. Yes, we are listening.
Thanks. Without this I really couldn't enjoy WCS at all. I play with a mouse and joystick (plus very few keyboard commands) and use the mouse for precision aiming and firing.
I don't see people whining, I see them wanting to enjoy your game and giving feedback that the controls are a major barrier. Maybe I don't understand the context though.
With the FS mouse control option it's been really fun so far, though I also had to turn up the difficulty (now that I can fly/shoot straight).
100% Signed !!!!!
With FS2 Mouse steering the game is wonderful.
Without patch i had a hit ratio from about 6% with Mouse and 15% with Stick - But now !!! up to 30-50% - this is a drastic difference
Thanks a lot !!!
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My first post here! I was looking for something on the mouse reticule and settings for it and found this forum and thread. First a big thanks to all the developers, programmers, artists and people who made this game possible. Was an avid WC gamer back in the day and this is really a great way to be nostalgic and have more modern visuals to do it with. TY!
I have to agree with the mouse reticule being a hard thing to adjust to after playing FS2. The patch was pinpoint and fast, TY for that! About the little arguement over a joystick, as far I am concerned, this is a fun game for me, probably wouldn't be any more or less fun for me with a mouse or joystick. However, a mouse setup is easier to get as many people playing as possible. So IMHO the point of it is, who do you want to play this game? As many people as possible or just those with a joystick or controller? The largest audience won't have a joystick or the desire to go buy one for one game which they may or may not play for very long. In my busy schedule hooking up a flight stick and clearing desk space for it is just one extra bit of time that I will have to spend not playing. I use the mouse and keyboard cause its fast, easy and already there. I'm not a game developer or salesman but I do remember enough from that business course I took years ago, one should always try and reach the biggest potential audience one can..
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Heresy! Only
the privileged elite joystick users should be allowed to rule play! :lol:
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Obligatory "wait there are still people using a joystick in mah 2012".
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Obligatory "wait there are still people using a joystick in mah 2012".
Obligatory "stop this bull****". Consider this a warning.
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Right, so the guy above me can do a lighthearted comment and I can't ? Why don't you just lock the thread if you feel it's not being serious enough.
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Yes, because as far as I am aware, he's not trying to turn "x? in mah <year>?" into a meme.
Actually, let me apologize. I jumped the gun on the warning thing; while I do consider the act of saying "You're still using x? How quaint." to be slightly annoying, it did not deserve the warning, or even the threat of one. Mea culpa.
(Note to self: do not moderate forums after having been annoyed by cow orker)
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What's a cow orker? :D JK, it just sounded funny. :)
Anyway, BTT: Joystick vs. Mouse is an interesting thing. Most people playing WCS outside of the hardcore Spacesim- and Flightsim- communities, (and even lots of those inside) play WCS with the mouse. I couldn't play it with keyboard and/or mouse to save my life, I hardly it anything that way, but I know there are quite some people who not only prefer playing with a mouse because it is there already (no need to plug in a Joystick) but actually prefer the mouse because it is more precise.
Fun fact: Both mouse variants that are available are used, and there are people that can only use one of them and say the other is impossible to play with.
For me mouse controls always had the problem that if you fly a lot of turns they are most annoying. I understand the precision thing though, compared to a simple/cheap joystick.
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About the better precission of the mouse over the joystick I have so say that I just bought a new joystick, since my old one broke while moveing.
After consulting with someone from the WingCenter and doing some research I bought a Thrustmaster 16000M. It uses a quite different technic then my old stick and without going into the technical details I just want to say that this one is very precise. I would say it is pretty much as presice as the mouse controle, except you want to target a specific pixel ^_^
Personaly the argument about precission died for me with this stick.
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How much was the Tmaster 16000M?
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With shipping about 40€