[Knight Templar]

if anything the Vasudans developed faster. They had a lot more incentive to blast off of their rock than we did.

[Eishtmo]

If I remember correctly, the Vasudan Empire has existed for 10,000 years.  How much of that was spent as a space faring civilization is something else all together.

[karajorma]

Originally posted by Shiva-jin Buu
I disagree. Somewhere in FS, or 2, they say that their empire was far greater than us. And they had the Knossos technology!

And couldn't it have been that the Ancients were the "all-powerful race" in the HoL vasudan legends, or derived of them?

I think the shivans were the all powerful destroyers of vasudan legend but of course that assumes that the vasudan legends had any validity. Almost every religion has a destroyer/battle to end all battles myth so that might also be all the vasudan myth was.
 After all even with the help of the HOL the shivans still didn't manage to destroy everything (I bet they must have felt real stupid about that one when the Great War ended )

As for the ancients they must have been at least as advanced as the GTVA because they managed to build technology the GTVA didn't have (i.e the knossos portals). They also managed to enslave several other races before the met the shivans (which does make you wonder what ever became of them?)
 
They may have discovered Terra and Vasuda but it's also possible that the necessary jump nodes weren't stable at the time. Or simply that the ancients saw no reason for exploiting those systems.

[Sesquipedalian]

On the one hand, the Vasudan civilisation had existed for 10 000 years, as Eishtmo said. On the other, we are told that they had to enter space a bit early due to the scarcity of resources on their planet.  These two facts are made compatible by the third fact that the Vasudans seem much less divisive and warlike than Terrans: "The Vasudans are a civilization of philosophers, artists, and scholars... To the Terran outsider, Vasudan society appears convoluted and ritualistic. The Vasudans themselves may seem arrogant, treacherous, and superstitious. On the other hand, Vasudans tend to view Terrans as aggressive, paranoid, and stupid. "  Warfare drives much of our techological innovation and consumes great amounts of resources, so presumably the less warlike Vasudans would not have developed the technology as quickly, nor have needed to.  Of course, it must also be said that when the need arose (i.e. they entered into war with the Terrans, and then the Shivans) they developed their technology at an alarming rate!



As for the Ancients, who says their homeworld was within GTVA space?  It may be that GTVA space was on the edges of thier empire, and they felt no especial need to colonise yet, so didn't bother exterminating and/or subjugating the Terrans and Vasudans.  From the Ancient monologues in FS1, it sounds more like they engaged in subduing races who could offer them some threat (i.e. other spacefarers) than that they were concerned with subjugating aliens at the beginning of deveoping civilisation.

[vyper]

Originally posted by Petrarch of the VBB
Maybe they did find Earth and Vasuda, and the life on them, but decided to leave well alone. They might have had some sort of Prime Directive, like the Federation.

Not likely, in the monologues we hear how the empire expanded and crushed whatever life it encountered.

[CP5670]

here is a relevant piece from the FS reference bible:

It is suspected that the Vasudans may have actually been visited long ago in their past by another race, simply called “the Ancients”.  Not much is known about this race, but from archaeological digs, it seems that they originated from a system nearby to Vasuda Prime.  Since it is unlikely that Vasuda Prime could have sustained a primitive race for long enough to develop space travel, it is not unfeasible that “the Ancients” may have helped Vasudan culture develop enough to allow them to survive.  

However, all evidence of “the Ancients” is mysteriously cut off after a certain point in time, leading scientists to believe there was some kind of cataclysm which befell their culture.  Other more religious groups claim that they were destroyed by a powerful cleansing force, and that the same would happen to the Vasudans when they became too prideful.  They claim that the ancients left a prophecy detailing the destruction of themselves, and the subsequent destruction of the Vasudans.  Most modern Vasudans have abandoned this mythos, and believe that “the Ancients” were just another spacefaring race that stayed in the area for awhile, then moved on to more fertile systems.  

Any ideas on what exactly the "system nearby" is? I think I vaguely remember it being said somewhere that Altair itself was their homeworld but I'm not sure at all about that.

[Razor]

Originally posted by TopAce
No god there isn't any projects working with the story of the Ancients.

[TrashMan]

Yeap.....Never seen the Ancients ship pack?

[Petrarch of the VBB]

That word "the". It gives me the 'orn.

:runs:

Were the ancients conquerors? I can't reme,ber what was said in the Ancients cutscenes.

[tEAbAG]

Yea, they stomped on quite a few races before the shivans got 'em.  At the end they figure they got what they deserved.

[Petrarch of the VBB]

Damn right.

'Tis like what happened with the British Empire, then. Or indeed the French or Spanish Empires.

[Eishtmo]

Originally posted by CP5670
Any ideas on what exactly the "system nearby" is? I think I vaguely remember it being said somewhere that Altair itself was their homeworld but I'm not sure at all about that.

I think, and this is gleamed from the cutscenes, that the Ancients homeworld was taken out long before the rest of the species was vaped.  It would follow the Shivan's pattern in FS1, take out the homeworlds rapidly, clean up afterwards.  That would mean that Altair was NOT the Ancient homeworld, but likely a far out colony.  The last outpost if you will.

[Liberator]

It makes sense that the Ancients would leave information vital on defeating the Lucifer someplace the Vasudans would find it.  

Since the Ancients commented on how they defeated or annihilated lesser species, it's possible that the Vasudans were in space and possibly had subspace technology in time to have some interaction with the Ancients and they possibly inherited some of their empire when the Ancients were wiped out.  

Subspace Technology, of cource, being the deciding factor between whether the species was wiped out or interacted with.  In their way the Ancients are as much a "Great Destroyer" as the Shivans but in reverse.

[Knight Templar]

err, IIRC, the Ancients talked about how they were beat back to their homeworld and killed.

[tEAbAG]

Originally posted by Liberator

Since the Ancients commented on how they defeated or annihilated lesser species, it's possible that the Vasudans were in space and possibly had subspace technology in time to have some interaction with the Ancients and they possibly inherited some of their empire when the Ancients were wiped out.  
 

The ancients were destroyed, what, 8000 yrs ago?  They may have had some contact with very ancient zogs (this is where I think the destroyer myth came from), but I don't think they had any technology to speak of.

[Eishtmo]

Originally posted by Knight Templar
err, IIRC, the Ancients talked about how they were beat back to their homeworld and killed.

Actually, reread it.

And we retreated to our home system.
Abandoned our empire.
We believed at home we would be safe

That's where you're reading.  Yet this follows:

And our world is gone

Next scene

There are few of us left.  We know we will soon be gone.  
And so we can see our fate as others will see it.

That seems to indicate that there were others outside of the homeworld.  This is actually pretty reasonable.  Look at what the Shivans did to the Vasudans and were trying to do to the Terrans, take out the homeworld in one nasty blast, then clean up the rest.  The survivors of the assualt on the Ancient homeworld were probably on on the homeworld in the first place, and then the Shivans came.

Altair could still be their homeworld, but I'm inclined to think otherwise.

I seriously doubt the Vasudans had subspace tech 8000+ years ago.  Vasudans and Terrans are said to be at the same tech level, so if the Zods had subspace 8000 years prior it was either completely lost (not impossible, but unlikely) or they would have been so advanced compared to the Terrans that such a comment could never have been made.  At a minimum, the Vasudans discovered subspace at about the same time as the Terrans, probably earlier, but not by more than a decade or two.

[Knight Templar]

I stand corrected.

[Liberator]

The Vasudans are Philosophers, Poets and Scientists first and Warriors second.

They remind me of what little I've read about the samurai in Japan, they were warrior/poets who when not embroiled in a war or some form of swordplay were more comfortable in intellectual pursuits.

It's possible that, given the above and what we know about Vasudan governance, that they have had subspace tech for a long time.  Empires and 10,000 Year reigns don't happen in a few centuries, they take time to develop.  

When Vasudans act it is deliberate and as a race.  

Humans in contrast, are short-fused, short-sighted, and chaotic.  Rallying as a race only in the direst of circumstances.

or more simply:

Humans explode.

Vasudans smolder erupting in a blaze every few centuries.

Granted the thought of them have subspace 8000 years in the past is ludicrous.  That figure is taken from the age of the Knossos.  But we don't have accurate historical records much before 2500 years ago, with only the Bible and a few other texts describing events from those times.  We have little or no idea what happened civilization-wise past about 7500 years ago.  We have the Atlantis stories which have led some archaeological theorists to put forward the idea that maybe we're(America and the rest of Western Civilizaton) not the first technological civilization to inhabit the Earth.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Petrarch of the VBB
Damn right.

'Tis like what happened with the British Empire, then. Or indeed the French or Spanish Empires.

So who stamps on the Shivans..........?

[Petrarch of the VBB]

Some British colony that then goes on the dominate the world economically, politically and militarily.

Can you see what I'm getting at?