[Snail]

All the events, the NTF rebellion and the 2nd Shivan incursion are strung together for FSsan. The NTF started up the the Knossos, which brought on the Shivvies. The Shivans blew everything up and the Colossus, but this allowed the GTVA to get the blueprints for the Knossos portal. My views.

[AlphaOne]

My view is that they would of got the damn blueprints of the Knossos regardless of the NTF. They were bound to find it soone or later. Not to mention they could of studied it more and perhaps even take it apart and move it to the Sol jump node.

Oh and we are forgetting one major event that the NTF can be blamed for indirectly and that is the destruction of capella.

[Snail]

You forget to realize it was the ****ing NTF who opened the damn portal. But if you negate that part of the argument, then yeah.

[NGTM-1R]

"fly into the Lucifer's hangar"

GTA Command seems to be willing to kill off their best pilot.

GTA Command knows you're just that badass and would survive.

[Harbinger of DOOM]

GTVA would be F***in' dead if it weren't for the NTF.

Can I have some of what you're smoking? Pretty Please?

[Snail]

The NTF were the idiots who opened the portal. How did they help?

[Dylnuge]

Calm down, Snail. Yes, the NTF opened the portal. But, yes, the SSI would have still occured at a later time without the NTF. Bosch's ETAK and communications with the shivans just sped things along. Oh, and btw, disregarding the portal issue, the GTVA did not stand a chance with or without the NTF hurting them. 80 Sahathans. 80. Bigger then out 1 Colossus. Which took 20 years. And died. In about 2 months, I believe. Capella was screwed from ths start.

[aldo_14]

i forgot about that part if the freaking NTF wouldnt of opened the gate then we wouldnt have a second shivan war so soon! A second shivan war would of happened anyway but not when the shivans wanted but rather when the GTVA wanted and it would of been far less cheaper in terms of man and ships losses. Plus by that time the GTVA would of probably figured out how to colapse the node etc etc.

GTVA command may be idiots but they are not suicidal.

Why would the GTVA want a war with the Shivans?

[AlphaOne]

Because as we can clearely see from the game the GTVA was already producing ships to counter the shivan main aces :1. huge amount of fighters and that is how we have the Deimos and 2. the Lucyfer class SD or atleast that is what they believed to be the greatest threat. Sure it turned out to be 80+ Jugg's but hey nobody is perfect. Also the GTVA was already conducting intensive research into shivan tech to implement on its ships. So we have the Kaiser and god knows how many other tech.

Oh and le us not forget about the Vasudans who given the fact that they ageneraly better ship builders the the Terrans decided to build that all time favorite ship of mine the Sobek class corvette.

It has decent AAAf protection and all that foroward facing firepower. It was designd to counteract another very agravating shivan traight sending loads of cruisers after you.

Basicly its not the GTVA wanted a war with the shivans but rather that they can not avoid another shivan war. If they are to have any chance of survival they must break out and colonize new sistems. This will inevitably lead to furteher encounters with the shivans.


The point is this given the amount of ship building gooing on in the GTVA not to mention the fact that SOC seemed to know about the shivan threat a lot more then you know when you first encounter them sugests to me that the GTVA was already taking measures o ensure that in the event of a second shivan war they would be the winners. They just miscalculated theyr real chances of winning against the shivans.

[wtf_cl0vvn]

Well, wasn't there a lot of infighting after the GTA collapsed following the Great War?

Perhaps, with a strong military, you have a deterrent against rebellion.

With a Collie, you can pretty much own whatever destroyers get sent against you.

idk. just playing devils advocate here. The GTVA pretty much was getting ready for GWII...its pretty clear from the Collie cutscene: "We vanquished the shivans in the Great War, but the hard questions remain..."

[AlphaOne]

WE have no evidence of any rebelions or terran vs. vasudan skirmishes after the first GW. Basicly even if they wanted to fight they had nothing left with wich to fight. WEll the vasudans were somewhat better off since they had shipyards etc. intact or at least a good portion of them.

[aldo_14]

Because as we can clearely see from the game the GTVA was already producing ships to counter the shivan main aces :1. huge amount of fighters and that is how we have the Deimos and 2. the Lucyfer class SD or atleast that is what they believed to be the greatest threat. Sure it turned out to be 80+ Jugg's but hey nobody is perfect. Also the GTVA was already conducting intensive research into shivan tech to implement on its ships. So we have the Kaiser and god knows how many other tech.

Oh and le us not forget about the Vasudans who given the fact that they ageneraly better ship builders the the Terrans decided to build that all time favorite ship of mine the Sobek class corvette.

It has decent AAAf protection and all that foroward facing firepower. It was designd to counteract another very agravating shivan traight sending loads of cruisers after you.

Basicly its not the GTVA wanted a war with the shivans but rather that they can not avoid another shivan war. If they are to have any chance of survival they must break out and colonize new sistems. This will inevitably lead to furteher encounters with the shivans.


The point is this given the amount of ship building gooing on in the GTVA not to mention the fact that SOC seemed to know about the shivan threat a lot more then you know when you first encounter them sugests to me that the GTVA was already taking measures o ensure that in the event of a second shivan war they would be the winners. They just miscalculated theyr real chances of winning against the shivans.

That doesn't suggest they want a war, only that they were preparing for the possibility of one.  (Aside, of course, from the whole NTF war thing going on)

Even the most pacifistic country has to be able to defend itself, after all.  And somehow I don't see the GTVA reaction to the Shivans' arrival in GD being one of glee.

[Snail]

The GTVA was not happy about the Shivans returning, they were simply arrogant. We got the Colly, we got the Deimos, we can smack up their Liliths and their Lucys. They faced a larger Shivan force than they could ever have imagined. I dont think the NTF could have helped anyway. In the long run (the really long run) the NTF could've helped with ETAK, but nobody knows if it works or not (given the Shivans reaction I dont think it did, but since it was the focus of FS2 then it should have some impact on the story).

[AlphaOne]

WEll regardless if all those aditional ships could of made even a dent in the shivan jugg armada it would of been a hell of a lot better if the GTVA actualy had those ships to spare. While aver time i have been the advocate of the idea that the GTVA has  much more ships then you see you can not count on them since they would be tied up with various other very important tasks within the GTVA.

But those ships could of come in handy for the actual war fleet the GTVA sent to engage the shivans.

Also regarding the ETAK project i tend to believe its usefulness is zero even in the very long term. Why? Simply because the GTVA could of found a better way of testing to see if some sort of comunication could of been established with the shivans without sacrificing an entire solar sistem and hundredds of thousand of soldiers in the proces.

It all depend on time or the amount of time you are willing to spend finding a way to test your devices without causing genocide destroyng solar sistems ..etc.

[Snail]

It was Bosch who was psycho. Using his research into ETAK could be useful. But the Shivans would have nothing to say but ''DIE EARTH MONKEY, DIE DESERT FROG!'' anyway.