[el_magnifico]

But... UBUNTU?!? XD


Was there  a precursor movement called Debian maybe?

[/intentional asshattery]

Well, there was another more radical faction named gNewSense, but it was full of ideological bull****.  

What's all this talk about protoculture then?

I knew someone was going to mention Robotech.

However, Carl Macek passed away last Saturday.

[SpardaSon21]

Badass Bookworms

Awesomeness by Analysis

Fixed.

Seriously, you mention tropes but do not link to them?

[Mongoose]

That's because he was nice enough to not send us for a three-hour link-hopping spree through the depths of TVTropes goddammit Sparda aargh...

(Well, I escaped myself, but I'm sure someone else won't. )

[General Battuta]

DERAIL

TVTropes has jumped the shark a wee bit, actually. A lot of its entries have gone from dry understated humor to that certain class of raving that comes from people who don't understand that other people don't care quite as much.

PLZ RERAIL

[Mongoose]

DERAIL AGAIN 4 A SEC PLZ

Hasn't the phrase "jumped the shark" jumped its own shark by this point?

RERAIL KTHXBAI

[el_magnifico]

Well to put this back on topic...

I think we should see the Ubuntu-GTVA ideological conflict from a different point of vue. Let's remember Capella : the Shivans can't be defeated with military actions. It's a fact. Yes, we can slow them down, yes, we can isolate ourselves blowing nodes up, but eventually, we can't win a war against the Shivans.

Starting from this fact, GTVA's point of vue is wrong. Even if they win the war against the UEF with minimal losses, get the hand on Sol industrial power and build a huge fleet of Raynors and Titans, they can't hope to win a war against the Shivans. The only thing they can hope is either to stop them temporarily via node collapsing, or make a last stand before going into hiding à la Sanctuary. Humanity can't spend its history fighting an invincible enemy, dreading about their next incursion, or go in hiding forever in a sleeper ship.

So, that being said, what remaining choice do we have ? The Ubuntu is not ready for a military conflict against a xenocidal race, it's also a fact. But as I just said above, the military solution isn't the good solution anyway.

Now let's remember Age of Aquarius. How did the 14th Battlegroup and the Sanctuary made it back to our universe, while the whole Shivan armada wanted them dead ? Not really thanks to their military might. They survived because of the Vishnans. More precisely, because the Vishnans chose to save them.

Now why did they chose to ?

They have created. They have created communities where former enemies can live in peace. They have created peace from war, where former enemies are now friends.

Both races exhibited potential.

And what is humanity doing in War in Heaven ? Where are the communities, where is the peace, what do we create, where is the potential the Vishnans decided worth saving ? And add to that the fact that even the relations between the Terran and Vasudan in GTVA are damaged, and you will be starting to understand my point.

Only the Vishnans have the power to stop the Shivans. But if we ever manage to contact the Vishnans in our universe, they probably won't be so much willing to save our races if we continue to fight each other.

Conclusion : War isn't the solution. But basing all our hopes on the Vishnans when we don't even know how to contact them, and not even being assured that they will help us, isn't very clever either. Maybe it's too late, maybe we have already wasted our potential as a race, and then we can only count on GTVA's military solution. But maybe not. We know some Ubuntu leaders "claim that they are in contact with a sophisticated alien race", and same goes for some Vasudan "prophets". Maybe it's the Vishnans. Maybe it's just fantasizing. Maybe it is something totally different. But it also may be the last hope to "bring the rest of our race to enlightenment".

I think MatthTheGeek's post sums up my opinion on this topic.
And I quote this as evidence:

Meanwhile, two powerful alien races watch from afar, waiting to see if humankind will fulfill its potential as the Great Creators.

I hope they have a lot of patience...

[High Max]

;-)

[Aardwolf]

I would be rather amused if the Shivans came back and kicked the GTVA's butt.

Come to think of it, if it weren't for the GTVA, the UEF wouldn't even be at risk of a Shivan attack. It's their stupid fault for building a portal and potentially letting the Shivans back into Sol. Idiots.

el_magnifico++;

[General Battuta]

Don't forget that the Shivans can rebuild jump nodes, though.

[el_magnifico]

I would be rather amused if the Shivans came back and kicked the GTVA's butt.

If the Shivans decide to intervene, I don't think they will only exterminate the GTVA.
It looks like they evaluate species as a whole, not factions (look at what they did to the HOL and the NTF).
Maybe they would spare the Vasudans though.

Just my humble opinion.

[Ravenholme]

I would be rather amused if the Shivans came back and kicked the GTVA's butt.

If the Shivans decide to intervene, I don't think they will only exterminate the GTVA.
It looks like they evaluate species as a whole, not factions (look at what they did to the HOL and the NTF).
Maybe they would spare the Vasudans though.

Just my humble opinion.

I doubt it - they glassed Vasuda Prime in the first Shivan Incursion.

[el_magnifico]

I would be rather amused if the Shivans came back and kicked the GTVA's butt.

If the Shivans decide to intervene, I don't think they will only exterminate the GTVA.
It looks like they evaluate species as a whole, not factions (look at what they did to the HOL and the NTF).
Maybe they would spare the Vasudans though.

Just my humble opinion.

I doubt it - they glassed Vasuda Prime in the first Shivan Incursion.

According to the info that we have, Vasudans have changed a lot since the first Shivan incursion. Don't you think so?

[MatthTheGeek]

Don't forget that the Shivans can rebuild jump nodes, though.

orly ?
Sure, Shivans can travel through unstable jump nodes, and even then, we don't know how much stable it need to be for them to travel in it. But as far as we know, only the Ancients have ever 'rebuilt' nodes (and I don't really think the term even applies to jump nodes).

Meanwhile, two powerful alien races watch from afar, waiting to see if humankind will fulfill its potential as the Great Creators.

I must have missed this one. Where is it from ?

[Spoon]

orly ?

yarly
There is so much we don't know about the shivans, if the BP team says they can rebuild nodes in the BP universe, then they bloody well can

[MatthTheGeek]

You got a point. Just forgot that Battuta is best positioned than us to talk about the BP continuity

[Colonol Dekker]

Orestes control has a super mario tea-cup. This much is fact.

[General Battuta]

orly ?

yarly
There is so much we don't know about the shivans, if the BP team says they can rebuild nodes in the BP universe, then they bloody well can

You got a point. Just forgot that Battuta is best positioned than us to talk about the BP continuity

Whoa whoa whoa, this has nothing to do with Blue Planet. Rewatch the FreeSpace 1 end cutscene.

[MatthTheGeek]

Yeah, if you really trust what the guy says in the ending cutscene. I don't think he really knows what he's saying.*

But yes, he did say that, point.