[fightermedic]

Short and simple:
i have massively reworked the oldie but goldie campaigns lighning marshal 1 and 2 as well as "the regulus campaign" - now before i can go on to voice act them, i need them tested by someone else than me. there should be as good as no bugs left, but nonetheless the stuff needs testing before i can go on.
i will continue with lightning marshal 3 and 4 if you keep me motivated, so you really should provide some feedback 
here is the link (included are regulus campaign and lm 1-4)

update: now all campaigns are reworked and some feedback included in lm1/2 and the regulus campaign - get them here:
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?aclg722jem2149m
if anybody wants to help voice act this i am more than happy to accept offers

maybe i should post a sample screen as a little appetizer, don't you think? here you go:

[Alex Heartnet]

there should be as good as no bugs left, but nonetheless the stuff needs testing before i can go on.

Here, have a word sandwich.     I found a showstopper-grade bug, as well as a bunch of minor things.  But, that's why this campaign needed testers!

Spoiler:

Lightning Marshal Bugs:

General:  There is no description for Episode 0 in the campaign room.
Mission dialogue is spoken too fast to read in some places.
Ursa bombers are not ideal for carriyng Tsunamis - it can only carry 2 more of them then the Medusa can.  The Ursa is meant to carry heavy torpedos, not light torpedos.
While it is nice to see the campaigns split into multiple parts in the campaign room, there should be an option to play through them all in order.

Episode 0:
Mission 1:  Grammer mistake in briefing.  "We have recieved not yet confirmed rumor" should be "We have recieved an unconfirmed rumor".  It just flows better.
Beta Wing of Medusa Bombers isn't being deployed in a missle boat role, so why does its loadout consist almost entirely of harpoons?  It would make more sense for it to carry Cyclops or Tsunamis.
Mission 2:  When Libra wing shows up, command gives a warning about Virgo wing.
Mission 3:  Why does my Ursa have a rapid-fire Kayser turret?
Even on very easy I take extreme amounts of damage very quickly in the Ursa.  Won't the Medusa fit the mission profile better?
Mission 4:  The way the mission objectives are updated seems...odd, to say the least.  Why not just use the directives window, that's what it's there for.
Mission 5:  This mission is unfairly difficult.  There are swarms of enemy ships, your wingman are useless, hostile capital ships WILL tear you to shreads, and overall your chances of survival are very low on any difficulty except Very Easy.
After Beta wing takes out the Deimos-class Corvette, they should be given an order to attack to the Aeolus-class Cruiser
Mission 6:  The NTC Cox is not added to your escort list whe it jumps in.  There is plunty of room on the escort list for it.

Episode 1:
Mission 1 - Showstopper:  The game will not let you proceed to the next mission after successful completion.  The mission in question appears to be one of those 'Failure is the only option' missions.  Since success is not possible, it is not possible to move onto the next mission

I kinda stopped testing after meeting the showstopper, might continue testing later.

[fightermedic]

thank you for your feedback!

Lightning Marshal Bugs:

General:  There is no description for Episode 0 in the campaign room.
oops.. gotta add one

Mission dialogue is spoken too fast to read in some places.
true - but i gues we'll have to live with that for now, press f4 to read the dialogs when testing, the problem will be gone once the voice acting is there

While it is nice to see the campaigns split into multiple parts in the campaign room, there should be an option to play through them all in order.
might do that some time, but it's low priority

Episode 0:
Mission 1:  Grammer mistake in briefing.  "We have recieved not yet confirmed rumor" should be "We have recieved an unconfirmed rumor".  It just flows better.
Beta Wing of Medusa Bombers isn't being deployed in a missle boat role, so why does its loadout consist almost entirely of harpoons?  It would make more sense for it to carry Cyclops or Tsunamis.
i will add some bombs

Mission 2:  When Libra wing shows up, command gives a warning about Virgo wing.
you don't want to know how much of THOSE bugs i have fixed in the missions, seems like i missed one

Mission 3:  Why does my Ursa have a rapid-fire Kayser turret?
Even on very easy I take extreme amounts of damage very quickly in the Ursa.  Won't the Medusa fit the mission profile better?
because i'm too lazy to change the ursas table entry - you can always change the missions loadout yourself during the briefing if you don't like Ursas

Mission 4:  The way the mission objectives are updated seems...odd, to say the least.  Why not just use the directives window, that's what it's there for.
yes i agree, it's really strange, don't know why the guys that did the missions implemented it, away with that stuff!

Mission 5:  This mission is unfairly difficult.  There are swarms of enemy ships, your wingman are useless, hostile capital ships WILL tear you to shreads, and overall your chances of survival are very low on any difficulty except Very Easy.
After Beta wing takes out the Deimos-class Corvette, they should be given an order to attack to the Aeolus-class Cruiser
you should have seen the misson before i changed it  , but you are right here, maybe i really should remove more enemy fighters
beta wing should rather guard the phiadelphia i think.. after all thats the mission objective

Mission 6:  The NTC Cox is not added to your escort list whe it jumps in.  There is plunty of room on the escort list for it.
right, will add her

Episode 1:
Mission 1 - Showstopper:  The game will not let you proceed to the next mission after successful completion.  The mission in question appears to be one of those 'Failure is the only option' missions.  Since success is not possible, it is not possible to move onto the next mission
this was the cause before i fixed the mission.. but.. but.. i FIXED it... something is very wrong here, i will check it out!

[fightermedic]

found the showstopper bug (and most of the other things too)
get the fix here
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?0wam7s808qhz48y

[Alex Heartnet]

<Witty comment about mission bugs>

Spoiler:

General:
The AI does not know how to use the GTM-39S Pheonix.  Its status are probably based on the Trebuchet, which the AI does not know how to use either
There's a big difference between AAAf and AAAh.  AAAf shoots faster on lower difficulty settings, it is meant for friendly warships.  AAAh shoots faster on higher difficulties, it is meant for enemy warships.

Episode 1:

Mission 2:  It would be nice to be able to see the contents of the cargo containers when you scan it.

Episode 2:

Mission 1:  Lower the AI skill level of the Virgo Wing Medusa Bombers.  They do not need to be duel-firing torpedos at hapless transports.
Libra wing should not have trebuchets!  The AI does not know how to use them.
Those Lokis seem a little too good at sending harpoons up your Herc MKII's tailpipe.  Perhaps give them Rockeyes or Harpoon#weak instead...
The Leviathians are equipped with AAAf, they should have AAAh.
The anti-fighter beams on the Leviathians are a little too lethal even with AAAh.  They will all be focusing their fire on the player for having taken out their main beam cannons, and 4 anti-fighter beams can tear the player up pretty quick (especially when they are using AAAf).  I had to hide behind the corvette.
The main beams on the Leviathians need a subsystem damage threshold to keep the player from disarming them soon.  I would set that threshold at 1% until the transports have been destroyed.  Once the transports go boom, remove the threshold.  Also destroy the cruiser's beams if they were taken down to 1% while the threshold was up (the player destroyed them, but the cruisers managed to get off that one last shot before their cannons melted)

Mission 2:
FRED2 spits out the following errors when the mission file is opened up:

Inital orders error for wing "Alpha"
Wing assigned to guard a different team

Inital orderd error for wing "Scorpio"
Wing assigned to attack same team

Command briefing mencions that the Leviathan's missle launcher is for anti-fighter work.  It's really for anti-capship work and not really a threat to fighters unless swapped for Interceptors or something.
Alpha wing of Myrmidons is given harpoons, it cannot mount them normally.
Beta Wing should not get Phoenix missles, I don't think it knows how to use them.

Mission 3:
Why is the Leningrad represented as a Deimos-class Corvette in the mission briefing?  There are icons for the Fenris/Leviathan class.
The AI does not know how to use dumbfires either.  Alpha Wing's entire loadout needs to be changed.
Subach HL-7 is missing from loadout screen, it was not missing before.  Oh wait, episode 3's command briefing explains it...
The transport is not on the escort list at the beganning.
I love how both allied corvettes on the escort list have visible orders to attack an enemy corvette that has not even arrived.  Mission spoiler, much?
Said hostile corvette is armed with....AAAf!  It should have AAAh.
How many of the enemy warships are using AAAf?  I'm not going to even bother checking.
The objective to destroy the corvette's forward beams just sits there if the corvettes are destroyed before their beams are taken out.
Space is 3D.  You know all those hostile cruisers?  Mix up their Z-axis a bit.  The whole campaign has Z-axis troubles, true, but it stands out more then it otherwise would when there are half a dozen warships coming at you at once.

Episode 3: (Critical Bug)
The command briefing says that the Subach HL-7 is now avalible?  What has the player been using up until now?    (Hint:  not the Promethus R, Katana, or Acketon SDG)  Definately NOT an easy fix, as removing it from previous missions could wreck mission balance...good grief...

(or, we could take the easy way out and remove that bit about the Subach...)

[Macfie]

I think we should go with the original intent of the Katana and the Phoenix-S being forerunners to the Subach and Trebuchet and modify Regulus and LM1 and 2 appropriately.

[fightermedic]

General:
The AI does not know how to use the GTM-39S Pheonix.  Its status are probably based on the Trebuchet, which the AI does not know how to use either
 
There's a big difference between AAAf and AAAh.  AAAf shoots faster on lower difficulty settings, it is meant for friendly warships.  AAAh shoots faster on higher difficulties, it is meant for enemy warships.
hm, didn't know that, thanks for stating

Episode 1:

Mission 2:  It would be nice to be able to see the contents of the cargo containers when you scan it.

Episode 2:

Mission 1:  Lower the AI skill level of the Virgo Wing Medusa Bombers.  They do not need to be duel-firing torpedos at hapless transports.
Libra wing should not have trebuchets!  The AI does not know how to use them.
Those Lokis seem a little too good at sending harpoons up your Herc MKII's tailpipe.  Perhaps give them Rockeyes or Harpoon#weak instead...
The Leviathians are equipped with AAAf, they should have AAAh.
The anti-fighter beams on the Leviathians are a little too lethal even with AAAh.  They will all be focusing their fire on the player for having taken out their main beam cannons, and 4 anti-fighter beams can tear the player up pretty quick (especially when they are using AAAf).  I had to hide behind the corvette.
attacking a warship with a fighter -> bad idea, as it should be, the leviatahans are not the biggest threat to the Actium in this mission - btw whats wrong with having to hide sometimes?

The main beams on the Leviathians need a subsystem damage threshold to keep the player from disarming them soon.  I would set that threshold at 1% until the transports have been destroyed.  Once the transports go boom, remove the threshold.  Also destroy the cruiser's beams if they were taken down to 1% while the threshold was up (the player destroyed them, but the cruisers managed to get off that one last shot before their cannons melted)
i don't think anyone can manage to destroy the beams fast enough, you have got like what, 30 sekonds? and the transports would blow up anyway, they self destruct   

Mission 2:
FRED2 spits out the following errors when the mission file is opened up:

Inital orders error for wing "Alpha"
Wing assigned to guard a different team

Inital orderd error for wing "Scorpio"
Wing assigned to attack same team
intended

Command briefing mencions that the Leviathan's missle launcher is for anti-fighter work.  It's really for anti-capship work and not really a threat to fighters unless swapped for Interceptors or something.
ah damn, i noticed that too, seems i forgot to change it

Alpha wing of Myrmidons is given harpoons, it cannot mount them normally.
will change that
Beta Wing should not get Phoenix missles, I don't think it knows how to use them.
stupid AI  

Mission 3:
Why is the Leningrad represented as a Deimos-class Corvette in the mission briefing?  There are icons for the Fenris/Leviathan class.
The AI does not know how to use dumbfires either.  Alpha Wing's entire loadout needs to be changed.
Subach HL-7 is missing from loadout screen, it was not missing before.  Oh wait, episode 3's command briefing explains it...
The transport is not on the escort list at the beganning.
I love how both allied corvettes on the escort list have visible orders to attack an enemy corvette that has not even arrived.  Mission spoiler, much?
i already fixed the briefing, seems i forgot to save after that
subach will be added
i will add the transport to the escort list
damn, i hoped noone would see the initial orders

Said hostile corvette is armed with....AAAf!  It should have AAAh.
How many of the enemy warships are using AAAf?  I'm not going to even bother checking.
The objective to destroy the corvette's forward beams just sits there if the corvettes are destroyed before their beams are taken out.
Space is 3D.  You know all those hostile cruisers?  Mix up their Z-axis a bit.  The whole campaign has Z-axis troubles, true, but it stands out more then it otherwise would when there are half a dozen warships coming at you at once.
good point with the z-axis
all the ships are using their default equip, *sigh* lots of changing to be done
i will change the problem with the staying directive


Episode 3: (Critical Bug)
The command briefing says that the Subach HL-7 is now avalible?  What has the player been using up until now?    (Hint:  not the Promethus R, Katana, or Acketon SDG)  Definately NOT an easy fix, as removing it from previous missions could wreck mission balance...good grief...

(or, we could take the easy way out and remove that bit about the Subach...)
already changed on my computer - don't bother testing episode 3, it's not done yet

[fightermedic]

I think we should go with the original intent of the Katana and the Phoenix-S being forerunners to the Subach and Trebuchet and modify Regulus and LM1 and 2 appropriately.

i disagree on the katana, and here is why: there are many campaigns taking place before or at the same time as LM, and in none of them, there is a katana. i would, however, like to have as little inconsistencies among this campaigns as possible. we have reworked quite a bit of NTF related campaigns over the years and i planed to release them as a kind of NTF-Bundle at some time.
my intent was to present the katana as a rather flawed design, to explain why it is not mentioned in any campaign after this one
the phoenix-s never did say anything different than being a forerunner to the trebuchet

btw: i started to upload the campaign to the ftp server, but this upload is not complete yet, please dont change something until i have uploaded the rest, i might override something by accident 

[Macfie]

I'm having a lot of problems with the skyboxes.  They cause massive slowdowns.  They drop the frame rate from 60FPS to around 30fps.  In addition because of the lighting issues with the skybox half of the time it's like flying into the sun so I can't see the backgrounds.  Also they do not jive with the canon systems the FSCRP has established.  I'd be willing to do the canon backgrounds for the missions.  We could also get rid of the mainhall files they only work for 640 x 480.

[fightermedic]

really? i'm not having any problem at all, and i think they look very good
true is, the col_neb skybox's texture files are not compressed - for some reason everytime i tried to compress them i got terrible pixel errors - could you try to compress them files?
by lighting errors, do you mean the huge suns in some missions? i have already decreased the size of some of them, they really had been to huge.
one of my skyboxes really is too bright, but i have not included that one in lm1 and lm2, and for lm3 i will decrease its brigthness

btw i have deleted all the unnecessery files (including the mainhall anis) on the ftp server
oh and i have uploaded new mission files where most of alex heartnets suggestions are included, but had no time to adjust the changelog yet, so it still lists all of them

stupid question: could you upload a screen showing what you don't like about the skyboxes? they surely are not to bright on this pc....

[Colonol Dekker]

Have you any plans to do Taskforce Panda as well?

* Dekker is showing his age now.

[Macfie]

Okay, you got me stumped.  I've never heard of task force Panda.

On the Sky boxes you are missing the main point.  They do not match the canon system design we use for the systems.  Just as you want to present the katana as a flawed design for consistency with other NTF campaigns we want to maintain a consistency with the appearance of systems.  All of the missions in lightning marshal occur in known systems.  There are missions with the various systems in the FTP account.

If you want to see the effect of the skyboxes turn on post processing and FXAA

Also could you cleanup the missions folder before you post to the FTP account? 
I had to clean out all the backup mission files.  Space is at a premium.

[fightermedic]

hah! i have heard of it.. (from dekker, several times, in some ancient threads that i searched for information on various campaigns )
i have NO idea what it is though

[Macfie]

In LM-2A the NTCv Leningrad and NTCv Irkutsk are Leviathan class cruisers they should be Deimos Class corvettes
In LM-2B the NTCv Leningrad is a Leviathan class cruiser it should be a Deimos Class corvette
In LM-2C the NTCv Leningrad is a Leviathan class cruiser it should be a Deimos Class corvette
These were corvettes in the original release and have nameplates made for them.

[fightermedic]

yes i changed them, destroying 4 deimos corvettes (a new ship design of which not much models have been built at the time the campaign takes place) in a 3 mission long campaign seems rather ridiculous to me
even more so since the NTF is supposed to use mostly older ships
i did not know about the nameplates, seems like i've got to adjust them

edit: i didn't have the latest version of the lm campaigns after all, since in my download there definitely were no nameplates included, but now i see that you have uploaded them to the ftp

[fightermedic]

i have applied the nameplates

[Macfie]

yes i changed them, destroying 4 deimos corvettes (a new ship design of which not much models have been built at the time the campaign takes place) in a 3 mission long campaign seems rather ridiculous to me
even more so since the NTF is supposed to use mostly older ships
i did not know about the nameplates, seems like i've got to adjust them

I think you are missing the point.  This campaign is someone else's original work all we do is edit it not recreate it.  The original author used the corvettes we should do the same.   I would recommend you review the section in the Wiki on upgrading campaigns.
http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Upgrading_Campaigns

Several members of the FSCRP have already invested time and effort in creating backgrounds that follow a set appearance for each system and had them as part of the work in progress.  This is supposed to be a group effort not a solo project.

[fightermedic]

This campaign is someone else's original work all we do is edit it not recreate it.

this is the reason why i was a bit reluctant to join the team in the first place, and why i mostly worked on campaigns noone cared about too much
i knew someone would post a post like that at some point, if i would touch a "holy cow" like Derelict - well it happened despite not doing so
i'm that type who doesn't care too terribly much about permissions to change/use other peoples stuff any way i like it, and views any released non-profit stuff at the internet as open-source by default (which freespace even is, how fortunate ), i thinks you have guessed as much by now
all i want to do is to improve campaigns - not to sit and think for hours what i'm allowed to change and what not
and there is absolutely no use in arguing about this, this site really has seen enough "this is not close enough to the original" discussions over the years - i wont change my view on the matter, you wont change yours

the question that remains to discuss however is what to do with lightning marshal
1: we could release 2 different versions - crap, since doing stuff twice isn't that smart after all
2: i can simply do it my way and not brand it as something the CRP has anything to do with, if you'd like that
any other realistic options? 
(please note: i'm not saying that i want to work on this in some "everybody else but me is stupid so i'm pulling this of alone!"-manner, but i do think that our opinions what to do with that particular campaign simply differ too much as to reach a compromise we both could live with...)

thanks god the CRP is not a team for some major mod - it's stuff like this that kills mod development 

[CaptJosh]

The realistic option is to upgrade it with the nicer versions of the SAME SHIPS that were used in the original. This is the campaign RESTORATION project, not the campain re-imagination project.

[Admiral Nelson]

Macfie asked me for an opinion here.  In general I agree that these campaigns should be handled with a light touch.  It must be said, though, that the Lightning Marshal 1 and 2 are fairly bad campaigns -- I gave up on them rather than trying to restore them at all a long time ago.  It is probably necessary to alter them more heavily to make them work at all.  I do think that the effort would be better spent on restoring other campaigns than these,  especially The Lightning Marshal 3, which is fully voice acted and is a good campaign.