Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: General Battuta on January 17, 2014, 02:29:11 pm
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All mods, all campaigns, no items, final destination. Give me your favorite individual warship! I'm not talking class here, I want one individual ship. Tell me wwwwwwwwwwwwwhhhhhhhhhyyyyyyy! Her command crew? Her plucky resolve? Her dashing good looks? Insuperable beam firepower? The way she just...blows up?
BONUS ROUND: give me your favorite SEXP. Staple **** like is-destroyed-delay is banned. Explain to me in words accessible to a dumb space baby why you like it so much. In related news, I'm proud to announce the birth of my first child, an Aeshma.
EDIT a long time later:
At seven votes each, it's a tie between the Atreus and the Temeraire!
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You named your child after the Zoroastrian demon of wrath? :wtf: I am missing something here I think... 'Tutta, drugs are bad, m'kay?
Favorite ship is the Steele. Eh, charges Sathanas Juggernauts while going down and doesn't afraid of anything. :p
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My love for the sexp is divided between the ship-protect and ship-guardian, both vital in so many ways! But I have love for many sexps, I would like to think I have a sexp harem.
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I take you want particular ship examples, and not ship models right?
Favourite ship: Belisarius, Reason: Love the tone of the commander as he says "negative Vasudan".
Favourite sexp: ship-guardian-threshold, Reason: Makes my work just a little easier.
Second close favourite sexp: play-sound-from-file, Reason: Lets me fu** with the player's mind.
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That's one vote for a nude and ballistic Admiral Chiwetel Steele, technically qualified as a spacecraft!
My love for the sexp is divided between the ship-protect and ship-guardian, both vital in so many ways! But I have love for many sexps, I would like to think I have a sexp harem.
You need to go on a picnic with three SEXPs. Please submit a guest list and a menu for the picnic.
I take you want particular ship examples, and not ship models right?
yes
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Fav ship: GTD Temeraire. So big. So welcoming. So home.
Fav sexp: mission-set-nebula. So many scary.
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Favourite ship: Typhon. So beautiful.
Favourite SEXP? Couldn't tell you exactly what it is, but in my own experience the one which lets me end the mission when I choose under whatever conditions I set. I think it's just the End Mission SEXP. It's vital for my branching campaign, especially the mechanic of being able to continue after your death, by cutting the mission short before the failure options pop up. I think I'd be stuck without it. I remember getting that one to work confused even the best FREDders around here for a short while.
You named your child after the Zoroastrian demon of wrath? :wtf: I am missing something here I think... 'Tutta, drugs are bad, m'kay?
Yeah, I've no idea what he means either. Makes me think of BritishShivans and his Ravana gimmick. If you actually gave your child that name, you'd be setting them up to be bullied mercilessly.
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The Carthage, she's basically the HMS Warspite of the GTA.
Axem SEXPs
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Not your favorite ship class, your favorite individual warship.
Yeah, I've no idea what he means either. Makes me think of BritishShivans and his Ravana gimmick. If you actually gave your child that name, you'd be setting them up to be bullied mercilessly.
I will bet you a TC-TRI full of tacos that someone in this thread will get it and explain it, killing the joke. We will divide the joke among ourselves and eat it in sacrament. FRED be praised. May our missions be spared from crashing. May our event editors fail to lag. Eat this, my child; it is the corpse of humor.
The Carthage, she's basically the HMS Warspite of the GTA.
Vanilla Carthage or BLUE CARTHAGE FEATURING LOPEZ FEELINGS ACTION
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I was gonna mention that the Belisarius is cool 'cuz it face the Psamtik and doesn't afraid of anything, but something that doesn't afraid of anything has already mentionned.
So I'll have to settle for the Iceni, which just feels like running all the time.
Me's favorite SEXP is either set-object-position, create-weapon or call-ssm-strike. set-object-position combined with waypoints makes a fiiine meal, but weapon create allows you to manually fire stuff like missiles'n'guns, which is pretty neat too. Aside from parental pride, I have taken a sadistic pleasure in using and abusing call-ssm-strike in all sorts of twisted ways.
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"Negative Vasudan" sounds like a DJ name/Internet forum handle. :D
The BP Carthage has so may feels it turned blue.
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Not your favorite ship class, your favorite individual warship.
Yeah, I've no idea what he means either. Makes me think of BritishShivans and his Ravana gimmick. If you actually gave your child that name, you'd be setting them up to be bullied mercilessly.
I will bet you a TC-TRI full of tacos that someone in this thread will get it and explain it, killing the joke. We will divide the joke among ourselves and eat it in sacrament. FRED be praised. May our missions be spared from crashing. May our event editors fail to lag. Eat this, my child; it is the corpse of humor.
Ah, that will certainly take some thinking about, I may not be able to answer. Perhaps the Guardian Angel from Wings of Dawn, more for the characters within it than anything else. The Colossus also comes to mind.
Perhaps the joke has something to do with Blue Planet. I don't know. As far as child names go, dropping the m makes Aesha, a fairly nice girl name. In fact, I just googled it's meaning, and it supposedly means "alive and well." I like that.
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No, it has nothing to do with Blue Planet. Torture is WRONG
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Vassago duh
Favorite SEXP is whatever one enabled me to megabeam Vassago
If you love someone, megabeam them
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Torture is WRONG
Yes. It is. Well, usually. Why do you say that anyway?
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Favorite Friendly Ship: The Custodian from Homesick. Didn't realize how much it meant until the last mission, but, I mean, it's all you have, and you go through a lot with it.
Favorite enemy ship: Tie between the Generation from Transcend (When he comes back: "Hello Omicron") and the good-ol' Lucifer.
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The Galatea. Only ship in FS to actually make me emotionally invested in its fate. When the Galatea went down, it provoked memories of all the lack of character building done on that ship... all the redshirt pilots coming and going from our squadrons with no dialogue save for wingman personas... and perhaps the most heartwrenching of all, the single line in the debrief about the previously unmentioned Admiral Wolf.
Fav sex pee: script-eval-string
Because WMCoolmon liked do-nothing so much he added a second one!
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Masayaf, so spinning, so spooky, so FA1337.
beam-free-all because everyone forgets to use it.
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The Galatea. Only ship in FS to actually make me emotionally invested in its fate. When the Galatea went down, it provoked memories of all the lack of character building done on that ship... all the redshirt pilots coming and going from our squadrons with no dialogue save for wingman personas... and perhaps the most heartwrenching of all, the single line in the debrief about the previously unmentioned Admiral Wolf.
You're a loose cannon, Shivan Hunter. But you get posts.
beam-free-all because everyone forgets to use it.
It has diminished into the West, and become a checkbox in mission specs. The line of beam-free-all has gone down into memory. Where is the horn that was blowing? Where are the horse and the rider? They have passed like retail briefings in my post history.
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The GTD Atreus. It's the face of Admiral Steele in WiH, and is therefore the utimate face of the enemy that has been beating you at every turn.
And with such a brilliant commander, it can and will drive all before it in a great sweep of blue fire. Even when sitting at a dock, it casts a large shadow indeed.
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It has diminished into the West, and become a checkbox in mission specs. The line of beam-free-all has gone down into memory. Where is the horn that was blowing? Where are the horse and the rider? They have passed like retail briefings in my post history.
I know but it's like, for a long time back in the day, if someone said "I has a FRED question," you could say "Ctrl + click to place ships, beam-free-all," and that would answer it every time.
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How do I shot beam
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:welcome:
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Two votes for the Atreus (I'm gonna count Admiral Steele hurtling through space as a vote for the Atreus)
One for the Vassago, one for the Belisarius, one for the Temeraire, one for the Carthage, one for the Iceni, one for the Custodian, one for the Masyaf, and one ~so ironic~ vote for the Galatea.
Will the man with the contingencies carry the day?
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The Galatea. Only ship in FS to actually make me emotionally invested in its fate. When the Galatea went down, it provoked memories of all the lack of character building done on that ship... all the redshirt pilots coming and going from our squadrons with no dialogue save for wingman personas... and perhaps the most heartwrenching of all, the single line in the debrief about the previously unmentioned Admiral Wolf.
stuck between this and the PVD Hope, just for the mission where you have to protect it while its repaired
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I vote for the GTCv Pork.
Just cause its hilariously funny and kills cruisers with its face. Not to mention the crew is laid-back and like there ship very funny.
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Are you stuck with 'the Galatea is my favorite ship' or 'the Galatea was handled lousily and why does anyone care about it?' If the former, please remain in a separate magnetic bottle from Shivan Hunter until you are injected into the warp core.
I vote for the GTCv Pork.
Just cause its hilariously funny and kills cruisers with its face. Not to mention the crew is laid-back and like there ship very funny.
the what from the where
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whoever mentioned the megabeam gets my vote for temporary president of space
my favorite ship is the ravana because and comes in and gives the lysander and the actium a lovely beam hug
unfortunately they didn't survive :(
my favorite sexp is change-soundtrack because i can't believe some people wouldn't use it to set the tone of something happening in the mission
and also because of Serkr Team
although uncertainty nears
can i vote for the vassago and the ravana, which are both ravanas
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the what from the where
JAD 2 mission 2
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The Galatea was an excellent example of how to tragically destroy a vessel that creates an intimate bond with the player. I mean, has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do drama more like? Exactly. No, it was cheap and poorly done.
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Favorite ship: The Colossus. It . . . it's just the COLOSSUS. 'Nuff said.
Favorite SEXP: Play-sound-from-file, I guess. A kewl music track played at the appropriate moment, like Razorback in Forced Entry, can really pump you up and really add to the mood of a mission. Fire-beam is also cool, for scripted beam barrages.
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Temeraire. Close proximity to that ship as it beams the holy **** out of Shivan Destroyers creates a bond that cannot be sundered by mere anything.
Favorite SEXP? Hmmm, that's a lot tougher. Probably one of the ones to do with distance/proximity. Those, or is-player-facing, which is a great way to sneak things into missions quietly.
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Fav ship: GTD Temeraire. So big. So welcoming. So home.
this, due to the excellent voice acting of the crew in AOA
favourite sexp: play-sound-from-file, Reason: Lets me fu** with the player's mind.
and this, for the stated reason
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The GTC Orff - A Fenris-class with enough guts (or stupidity) to attack the GTD Hades.
:)
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The GTC Orff - A Fenris-class with enough guts (or stupidity) to attack the GTD Hades.
:)
not only that but the first capship you get a good look at
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My favorite warship obviouslys the Guardian Angel with its amazing trend setting captain. (http://lazymodders.fsmods.net/axemart/FreeSpace/Campaigns/WoD/frenchcrystal.jpg)
My favorite sexp has to be modify-variable, because without it how else could I humblebrag about how complex my missions are with just 2 words? (157 variables, bro)
And my sexp picnic would have play-sound-from-file for some light jazz, script-eval to create arbitrarily complicated sandwich formations and behavior, and ship-create for infinite tacos.
(This is for the FreeSpace dating game right?)
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Favorite ship: The Colossus. It . . . it's just the COLOSSUS. 'Nuff said.
I'm going to go for the Colossus as well. The Guardian Angel is a fine ship, but at the end of the day, I was thinking of it for it's crew, not the ship itself. Sorry Crystal and co... :(
So I'm taking the Colossus. Apart from the obvious fact it's a beast of a ship, there's the way it's built up. From literally through the Colossus Cutscene to the fact it's built up as everything depends on the Colossus, as it displays it's power in numerous engagements, and even brings down the first Sathanas (with a lot of help.) I also like the fact it's crew don't just try to beam everything to oblivion which would be the easy thing with a ship like that, they try to reason with Koth first, before blowing him and his crew to dust. So then when the Colossus finally goes down, it's a memorable moment.
And of course, let's not forget about the baseball bat swing. I'm surprised (unless it hasn't already been done) that no one has made a mission of the Colossus just swatting fighters like flies with the "bat"! :lol: :lol: :lol:
Let's finish this up with the Colossus Cutscene. 20 years to build, all the major corporations, Terrans and Vasudans...
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You need to go on a picnic with three SEXPs. Please submit a guest list and a menu for the picnic.
Ship-guardian, because she's like a goddess that protects the faithful ships from mortal danger. So dreamy
Send-message, she's a bit of a chatterbox, but she is just so Genki~
Set-armor-type, it takes a bit to get through her cold exterior but once you get to know her...
I would like to put Taco's and Capella sun-boms! on the menu.
Also I would like to put my ship vote on the Vassago.
(I'm scared of supernova-start though)
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GTD Bastion as the only ship to appear in both games, and going out like a destroyer should compared to some of the chumps down the years.
Also, send-message-list, which lets me do anything I want to the player with endless bad writing.
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Not one vote for the "most useful ship in FS2", the Psamtik?
F'ing racists.
Hell, my vote goes for the Sath 17.
Probably stood behind to let others go where no shivan had gone before.
NEVER FORGET.
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Not one vote for the "most useful ship in FS2", the Psamtik?
F'ing racists.
Screw the Psamtik. I wanted to join them, go on a journey with them, and ultimately save them, and look what they did to me...
Alpha 1 tries to hitch a ride on the GVD Psamtik, intending to take the story in a new direction, and ultimately save the Psamtik from it's fated destruction, but is snubbed, and goes the way of the Belisarius... :(
(http://i40.tinypic.com/5yx79x.jpg)
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how typical blaming the bros for your own piloting incompetence.
Is there no end to all this racial hatred?
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how typical blaming the bros for your own piloting incompetence.
Is there no end to all this racial hatred?
Oh yeah, play that card, just because they happen to be Vasudans, it automaticaly has to be down to racism... :rolleyes:
I was just sat there waiting for acknowledgement, and they jumped...
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Favourite ship: the Lucifer, for it is the epitome of the Shivan enigma! Why is there only one? Where did it come from? Why are there five not-so-hard-to-hit reactors in plain sight on its hull? Why is it shaped like a lobster? So many questions!
Favourite sexp: mission-set-nebula, for it is the key to all successful terror!
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Favorite ship: The GTC LoneWolf, because it was a loveable hunk o' junk and I got to say its name a bunch!
Favorite SEXP: Sex-pee? What sort of kinky stuff are you people into?! :wtf:
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that joke was almost certainly first made in the fifties
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I blame Axem.
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The Temeraire's pulled ahead with three! We have two lovely picnics in the planning!
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I want your
(http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/500/24730/George%2BMichael.jpg)
SEXP!
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I want your
(http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/500/24730/George%2BMichael.jpg)
SEXP!
Baby baby.
Hang on a second! What's this? If you use shady tactics and accept split votes, a jagged nemesis lurks behind the Temeraire! It's the Vassago! Can our stalwart mother of blue beam salvation defeat the silent sorcerer of subspace? Only YOU decide!
In the tail with two votes we find Admiral Steele's Atreus, the gentleman surgeon of the GTVA at the helm of his scalpel - the Colossus, talisman of Allied pride and boondoggle hammer of inter-war policy - and the nightmarish Lucifer, the oven that cooked Vasuda Prime! WHAT A PICNIC, FOLKS
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My favourite SEXP would have to be when-argument simply because of the amount of stuff I've done with it. If you want a change SEXP though, I'm going to have to go with modify-variable for much the same reason as Axem.
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My favourite SEXP would have to be when-argument simply because of the amount of stuff I've done with it. If you want a change SEXP though, I'm going to have to go with modify-variable for much the same reason as Axem.
I was waiting for you to show up to nominate query-orders as best SEXP ever!~
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Nevermind! GO VASSAGO!
BECAUSE IT IS A RAVANA! AND BECAUSE OF BIG BEAMS!
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I was waiting for you to show up to nominate query-orders as best SEXP ever!~
If I was going to nominate one of mine, I'd go with alter-ship-flag. Seeing as how it does the work of about 20-30 other SEXPs. :D
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the "most useful ship in FS2", the Psamtik?
My favourite ship is absolutely the Psamtik! "Gunnery control: open fire!"
Favourite SEXP: is-destroyed-delay. Rewarding us for wanton destruction since 1998!
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The Psamtik jumps up to contend with the Lucifer, Atreus and Colossus! Can Khafre's vacuum sleigh dethrone these legends?
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The Trinity.
wow
much nebula
such mystery
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Favorite Ship: GTD Aquitaine.
Kinda useless in the campaign (besides carrying Alpha 1 to combat) but the username of my old FS multi PXO account was based on it.
Favourite SEXP: script-eval
That's like using all sexps at the same time and much more.
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atreus; script-eval
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Favourite warship: The LSF Guardian Angel, because it's full of candy and space elves.
Favourite SEXP used to be beam-free-all because pretty lights, now that it's no longer mandatory I like script-eval
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UED Toutatis, cuz Calder... That guy has bawlz.... And the seeing the Toutatis save the day against the Hood and Serkr(?), instant bond formage right there!
Favourite seksp? training-msg, cuz with it you can do stuff like branching conversations as well as something simple as RUN.
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Favorite FSverse Warship:
The original Lucifer
Despite many-a-campaigns attempt to deminish this noble class of Shivan warship in its fearsome reputation, the SD Lucifer was the most threatening Shivan warship around. Until the end of FS1 you just didn't know if you could kill it, which lend all the more urgency to final attack.
Favorite SEXP:
Everything you can combine with
Rand-multiple (Arithmetic operator)
Gets a random number. This number can and will change between successive calls to this sexp.
[MrTorgue]RANDOMIZING STUFF WITHOUT BEING SEEN IS F*CKING AWESOME! *AIR GUITAR SOLO*[/MrTorgue]
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Galatea, for that moment when you first get to see and fly around an orion in FS1.
beam-free-all for sexps, because 1) i'm not a fredder, so it's one of the very few i even know about, and 2) beamz. duh.
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GTD Bastion from FS1 and FS2, GTD Nexus from Shadow Genesis, MTD Auriga from Derelict and UED Toutatis from WiH.
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The Lucifer and the Atreus both climb to three, contending with the Temeraire! It's Sam's solitary solace in Shivan space against the savage surface-scorcher of Sol and Steele's subtle stilletto!
Joining the Psamtik and Colossus at two is the LSF Guardian Angel, hammer of the Hertak! If Betrayal settles on a vote there's also hope for the Bastion and Toutatis! Will Calder's chrome cataphract cull Command's colossal cudgel?
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NTSC Pal. Just for the name.
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NTSC Pal. Just for the name.
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How long is voting open? I'm still deciding between two or three on which one to vote for.
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Like Dumbledore's snitch, we open til the close.
that means 'forever' b/c that book sucked
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The Colossus. Especially for its UNBEARABLY LOUD COMMANDER.
yes COMMAND we are READY FOR ACTION. Firing BEAMS NOW.
My favourite sexp right now is is-facing because it is awesome.
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The Colossus. Especially for its UNBEARABLY LOUD COMMANDER.
yes COMMAND we are READY FOR ACTION. Firing BEAMS NOW.
And because someone saw fit to make a lego one... :pimp:
(http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs21/i/2007/299/1/0/GTVA_Colossus_2_by_ImtheArbiter.jpg)
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I hope I don't offend anyone when I say that they could do a way better job. (https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/6048098560/h77710F74/)
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eaaaaaaaaaaargh my eyes
remove that gross thing please
it burns
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eaaaaaaaaaaargh my eyes
remove that gross thing please
it burns
Yes, get Battuta's ship out of there, whatever it is. It pales in comparison to the magnificence of the Lego Multicoloured Colossus! ;)
EDIT: Wait, it's a Battlestar, isn't it?
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Made by Lego Pros (and the Colossus is up to top tier!)
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no sarcasm please i was obviously talking about the multicolored lego colossus
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FS1 is Orion, its classic good looks. FS2 is Hecate, its just sexy. Yeah people have flogged it with bad gun placements, but its beauty makes up for it. Best Vasudan ship is the hatshepshut?
Best fighter of all time is the Ares, and in 2nd place, for good looks, the Delta? FS2's stealth fighter. Ares is just a can of whop ass, great design, and massive firepower and shielding.
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FS1 is Orion, its classic good looks. FS2 is Hecate, its just sexy. Yeah people have flogged it with bad gun placements, but its beauty makes up for it. Best Vasudan ship is the hatshepshut?
Best fighter of all time is the Ares, and in 2nd place, for good looks, the Delta? FS2's stealth fighter. Ares is just a can of whop ass, great design, and massive firepower and shielding.
Favorite individual warship, not favorite class.
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no sarcasm please i was obviously talking about the multicolored lego colossus
I know, that's what this little guy ;) was for.
I'm sure if that person had had all-green bricks the Colossus would have been all green. Ah, I remember well the frustrations of not having enough of the right colour bricks when I played with lego years ago...
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GTD Bastion for launching the strike that took down the Lucy and for stopping the 2nd incursion (well, doing at least 50% of the job, but you know squat about the GTD Nereid anyway)
"Favourite" sexp? True; because it's a FUNCTION, not a VALUE :hopping: :mad:
(also not a FREDer, bring on wxFRED ;))
edit: remove double negative :banghead:
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That puts the Bastion in contention for second place! It's the Atreus, Colossus, Temeraire and Lucifer neck and neck, followed closely by the Bastion, Psamtik, and Guardian Angel!
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Vassago's been dropped like the beat of the dirge of the same name
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Oh **** I forgot that canny little customer.
It's the Atreus, Colossus, Temeraire and Lucifer in the lead with three, followed closely by the Bastion, Psamtik, Vassago and Guardian Angel at two!
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How many votes does each ship have I can't even tell for some reason
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Ah, I remember well the frustrations of not having enough of the right colour bricks when I played with lego years ago...
So now when you play with LEGOs you have enough of the right colors? :D
Anyways, my favorite warship would be Alpha 1's Terran Mara. It may not be a "traditional" warship, but when you're flying it, you feel like one. With dual Kaysers, it packs a greater punch than any blob turret out there and it would fire deadlier beams if command would just let me mount one on it. :nono: It also can fire more missiles than a Fenris. :rolleyes: At least I can kill one before it fires that many...
For the SEXP, I haven't FRED'd in years, so I forgot most of them.
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Ah, I remember well the frustrations of not having enough of the right colour bricks when I played with lego years ago...
So now when you play with LEGOs you have enough of the right colors? :D
Heh. :)
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Ohh..tough one.
The GTD Orestes stands out as one of my favorite designs. It's such a great blend of Terran functionality with Vasudan form, throws out some major hurt, carries an Admiral I'd like to punch in the face...
But, I just finished Diaspora (does that count for this discussion?) and the Theseus...oh how I fell in love with the Theseus. Galactica may get all the glory, but the Theseus (and Sobek-class in general) definitely got the looks. We didn't spend much time together (curse you short campaign!) but I absolutely adored everything about that ship. Fantastic gun coverage, plenty of launch tubes for Viper goodness, willingness to sacrifice dozens of pilots for a few useless civilian vessels.
My favorite SEXP is a much easier one - is-ship-stealthy. Not because of any actual usage, but whenever I see it I get this thought of a conversation the game engine is having with itself.
"Is it stealthy?"
"It's a Sathanas...it's over 6 kilometers long, what do you think?"
"Um...is that a yes?"
"NO! That's a NO! Why in the hell would you think a ship that huge could be stealthy?"
"Someone might have changed the flag..."
"Just die."
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The Theseus definitely counts. Why would you want to punch Daddy Bei :(
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The Theseus definitely counts. Why would you want to punch Daddy Bei :(
I never forgave him for the first message I got from him after transferring to the Orestes.
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The best ship is clearly the GTVA Mai Dique... I mean, Colossus. It really makes everything (in retail) small in comparison and I always loved the idea of a sort of big, massive superweapon of mass destruction.
Favourite sexp - show-subtitle-image. Because Universal Truth is awesome.
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THE COLOSSUS LUMBERS AHEAD (4 VOTES)
MY TENSION SINKS CAN'T STAND THIS KIND OF ABUSE
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GTD Arbitrary (an Orion) from the campaign "Ridiculous".
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NTD Repulse (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Repulse)
So awesome it looks more frightening than the Colossus in Feint! Parry! Riposte! (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Feint!_Parry!_Riposte!) :lol:
Seriously, I liked that ship so much because the mission culminating with its destruction was the last playable one in the copy of FS2's demo version that I played ad nauseam for a long time before I got my retail FS2.
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Naberus, a Lilith-class cruiser that can ruin your day so fast on one hell of a mission yo.
set-object-orientation because warpin in forward guns blazin is the way **** gets done.
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The NTF Iceni because of her commander.
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The Iceni's at two, but the Colossus still holds a commanding lead!
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The Iceni's at two, but the Colossus still holds a commanding lead!
Democracy is not always the best way to solve things out.
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The way NTD Repulse is written means it should get at least 5 extra votes. :P
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GTD Temaraire
The moment when it's battlegroup jumps in to flank the Sathanas is one of my favorite parts in any campaign.
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Oh **** I forgot that canny little customer.
It's the Atreus, Colossus, Temeraire and Lucifer in the lead with three, followed closely by the Bastion, Psamtik, Vassago and Guardian Angel at two!
FOUR VOOOOOTE VENDETTTTAAAA! COLOSSUS VS TEMERAIRE! It's the long lance of Lost Generation law against the world-wandering TEI widowmaker! Whose flight decks are more beloved? Whose beams burn brighter? yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyYOUUUU DECIDE
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The LSF Guardian Angel. Nothing motivates like its captain~.
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Current standings are Colossus vs. Temeraire at four, Atreus, Lucifer and Guardian Angel at three, and the Bastion, Psamtik, Vassago, and Iceni at two! And maybe some stuff I forgot!
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Putting my two cents worth in. Temeraire all the way. ;)
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IT'S THE HIGH PRIESTESS OF PLASMA CORE INSERTION, THE TITAN OF KYTON FIGHTIN', OUT FRONT WITH FIVE
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Psamtik! Obviously!
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Another for Temeraire.
And ship-guardian, for a long time, it was the only way to have recurring characters make sense.
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SEVEN FOR THE ICE-QUEEN IN HER HALL OF OWN
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5+1=7 I see.
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IT'S HULKAMANIA MATH
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And ship-guardian, for a long time, it was the only way to have recurring characters make sense.
I can think of two different viable ways ... not SEXP but a writing solutions (you just have to leave behind all your Freespace'y conceptions about "one man fighters")
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Do we have a WINRAR yet?
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Do we have a WINRAR yet?
If we're going by those standards it's Bastion for most compressed.
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GTSD Merdarion from Shadow Genesis. For it's main beam which crushed dozens of enemy warships.
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SEVEN FOR THE ICE-QUEEN IN HER HALL OF OWN
*Insert Frozen reference just because.*
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GVD Cleopatera (am I writing it properly?) because red beams. And the number of fighters :).
set-ship-class because it spoils FRED's day :).
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I have never heard of a GVD Cleopatra.
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GVD Cleopatera (am I writing it properly?) because red beams. And the number of fighters :).
set-ship-class because it spoils FRED's day :).
Freespace3: The Search for Bosch I presume? :lol:
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Second Great War Part II, actually. And I'm pretty sure it was the GVXD Cleopatra. :P
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GVD CleopatEra :) Yep, the search for Bosch...
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My vote for GVD Cleopatera as well. Such overkill that ship ;D
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Atreus all the way. Because Steele is mah hero.
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Current standings are Colossus vs. Temeraire at four, Atreus, Lucifer and Guardian Angel at three, and the Bastion, Psamtik, Vassago, and Iceni at two! And maybe some stuff I forgot!
Temeraire at six, Colossus and Atreus at four, Lucifer and Guardian Angel at three, and the Bastion, Psamtik, Vassago, Iceni, and this, uh, Cleopatera creature at two!
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Casting my vote for Atreus.
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AHHHHWWWWWHHUUUUUUUHHHHHOOOOOOO
Temeraire at six, Atreus at five, Colossus at four!
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bp is way overrepresented here. the atreus isn't that cool compared with the Hattie. Come on.
PS: HEY WAITTA minute here. Cleopatera is a hattie.
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Another vote for the Custodian.
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bp is way overrepresented here.
VOTE LUCIFER!
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Custodian's up to two!
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Vote for Crys... er... for Guardian Angel!
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Temeraire at six, Colossus, Guardian Angel, and Atreus at four, Lucifer at three, and the Bastion, Psamtik, Vassago, Iceni, Custodian, and this, uh, Cleopatera creature at two!
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+1 for the Psamtik.
First destroyer with real beams, and the Hatshepsut is a pretty, pretty ship.
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Psamtik for pew-pew-peeeeeeeeeeew ing the Bellisarius, and if-then-else for its endless nesting potential.
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WHY DOES ANYONE USE IF-THEN-ELSE :mad: :hopping: :confused: :mad: :hopping: :confused: :mad: :hopping: :confused:
e: what i'm trying to say here is 'nested conditionals for life (because they do literally everything better)'
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WHY DOES ANYONE USE IF-THEN-ELSE :mad: :hopping: :confused: :mad: :hopping: :confused: :mad: :hopping: :confused:
e: what i'm trying to say here is 'nested conditionals for life (because they do literally everything better)'
if-then-else is a conditional, and moreover, is the best conditional (followed closely by when-argument).
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If-then-else is a way to do exactly the same thing as a pair of whens, but make it less readable. :colbert:
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I must admit, I'm no fan of the SEXP myself. For much that reason.
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Disagree entirely, if-then-else makes it more readable by giving you a structured, ordered pathway through multiple outcomes for the same set of initial conditions. Nested whens can't do that anything like as tidily.
Imagine Command calls up a cruiser that's just seen off a bomber attack. With nested if-then-else, the response to that call can be selected from any number of responses determined by the hull strength of the cruiser, all within one neat and sequentially arranged event. It's a beautiful thing done right.
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Right, but you can just do that with whens, and it's a lot clearer how the event is organized because each subconditional's trigger logic is kept local. With if-then-else (which I've used in massive pyramids) it's easy to get lost regarding how deep you are and exactly what logic is currently producing the responses you're working with.
The bigger my events have gotten the more importance I've found elegance, internal robustness, and local storage of information to be. You want as little as possible of your event to be scattered across the event, and if-then-else violates that rule by forcing you to keep track of how deep you've gone in the branching.
So for example we could take your example of picking a response using if then else:
IF: situation's good AND we hit 'time for this to happen'
SAY YAY!
ELSE - If: situation's okay
SAY OKAY
ELSE - If: situation's kinda bad
SAY KINDA BAD
ELSE - If: situation's real ****ty!
SAY KINDA ****TY
ELSE - cruiser's gone!
SAY CRUISER'S GONE
But with nested conditionals you can just use (and I'm going to write this in the worst case):
When: it's time for this to happen!
IF SIT'S GOOD but NOT OKAY, BAD, ****TY OR GONE! say it's GOOD!
IF SIT'S OKAY but NOT GOOD, BAD, ****TY OR GONE! say it's OKAY
IF SIT'S BAD but not GOOD, OKAY, ****TY OR GONE! say it's BAD!
IF SIT'S ****TY but not GOOD, OKAY, BAD, or GONE! say it's ****TY!
IF SIT'S GONE but not GOOD, OKAY, BAD, or ****TY! say it's GONE!
I think that's a lot more readable and a lot easier to spot errors in. It's also more robust if you want to alter something, and it looks nicer in FRED
(if we stick to your hull strength example this is even easier, since you just say
When: it's time for this to happen!
IF SIT'S GOOD say it's GOOD!
IF SIT'S OKAY say it's OKAY
IF SIT'S BAD say it's BAD!
IF SIT'S ****TY say it's ****TY!
IF SIT'S GONE say it's GONE!)
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See even Axem thinks so!
[21:03] <@Axem> if-then-elses are fine for a 2 outcome event
[21:03] <@Axem> but after that...
[21:03] <@Axem> when's just make more sense
[21:03] <@Axem> also if-then-elses are only good for a single sexp
[21:04] <@Axem> if you want more than one thing to happen on the then, you need to attach a when true then
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I also find if-then-else too limited for any complex use. I mean just a single expression that can be used when its true? What the heck!
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Eh, I guess it's stylistic. For me, the sequential nature of if-then-else is what makes it readable, because each outcome is limited to one set of conditions at a time, and they're all set out neatly and because you can do it all with one sexp (multiple outcomes are annoying, but can be farmed out using cars if you absolutely need to). It also guarantees that an event will only fire once, no matter what, which simplifies things in bugtesting.
I am curious though, with multiple whens, how do you drag the parser through multiple cause/effect steps if you're not satisfying the earlier ones? I thought nested when only fired if the cause part came back as true - what would the event tree look like to fire off the message for "bad" up above?
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You have the mommy when that contains all the others, and all the kid whens nested inside her (eww). All of these whens are, in this case, mutually exclusive, so only one of them can ever fire at a time. They all evaluate when the mommy when becomes true, but you're guaranteed that only one of the children will also come back true.
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They all evaluate when the mommy when becomes true, but you're guaranteed that only one of the children will also come back true.
if-then-else will stop evaluating once that one child has come back, though, whereas your nested loop will continue evaluating conditions you already know are false. It won't matter unless you're calling it every frame or something similarly criminal but it's still worth nothing.
It sounds like the problem is in inadequate implementation of the if-then-else SEXP and, in this case, a proper switch SEXP.
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Orestes....
Because fourth bulkhead.
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Renjian then.
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Temeraire at six, Colossus, Guardian Angel, and Atreus at four, Lucifer at three, and the Bastion, Psamtik, Vassago, Iceni, Custodian, and this, uh, Cleopatera creature at two!
Temeraire at six, Colossus, Guardian Angel, Psamtik and Atreus at four, Lucifer at three, and the Bastion, Vassago, Iceni, Custodian, and Cleopatera at two!
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Oh, I forgot to vote.
Galatea. :(
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Galatea's up to two!
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Ever since I was in middle school I always liked the NTD Repulse and the magnificent bastard admiral Koth who was the captain. He was all too willing to throw everything away to prove a point.
Outside of freespace canon I would have to say the Generation (I think that's the name) from Transcendant. That thing just refused to quit hunting you down it was scary.
My favorite sexp has to be the one that changes object (ship) types. That allows so much versatility it's almost hard to believe.
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Pick one!
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omg Repulse then :ick:
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Oh, I forgot to vote.
Galatea. :(
Awww crap, I forgot. /me salutes Admiral Wolfe.
Can has vote change?
sex pee vote= supernova_start
Kaboom.
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The GTC Orff.
Because that ship marks the start of the campaign.
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From the official games, I love the Aquitaine, Psamtik, and Repulse, and I have a huge soft spot for the Colossus. The Actium/Lysander team is enjoyable, the Mecross and Hope have cool names, and the Iceni helps move a large part of the plot. Oh yeah, Bastion ship is best hero ship. Mod wise, much love to the Nyarlathotep, Vassago, Yangtze/Indus and Katana/Altan Orde teams, and of course, the good old Carthage. Atreus makes a great antagonist, as well.
However, I gotta vote for the GTCv Generation of Transcend fame.
"Memories never die, Omicron."
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Fav Ship: Iceni... so stealthy...
Fav SexyP: beam_free_all
When I went into my missions before Open... watched for a bit... and then screamed
"WHERE ARE TEH BEAMS!!!!"
This little guy would always soothe the eye ache and make things shiny!!!!!
Luv you beam_free_all <3
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Favorite Ship: The Relentless. Reason: If you look at it from the right angle (actually ... ANY angle), it looks like huge flying man-parts in outer space. Strange nobody ever noticed this as far as i know.
As for SEXPs, I haven't seen the inside of FRED a single time so far, so little do I know about their naming. But I do love death-on-arrival after a jump-in, no matter what the initial hull value of the defending ship was. Doing that is the only viable way, if some ship HAS TO GO DOWN for the mission to continue ... Just in case the player is too awesome while defending it ... Like me ... Most of the time. (I can't seem to enjoy playing constantly on insane though.)
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Temeraire at six!
Colossus, Guardian Angel, Psamtik, Iceni and Atreus at four!
Lucifer at three!
...and the Bastion, Vassago, Custodian, Generation, Galatea, and Cleopatera at two!
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i vote atreus
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Can TC one?
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Temeraire at six!
Colossus, Guardian Angel, Psamtik, Iceni and Atreus at four!
Lucifer at three!
...and the Bastion, Vassago, Custodian, Generation, Galatea, and Cleopatera at two!
Hey, don't forget the Orff at one!
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GTD Aquitaine. Psamtik might be the best destroyer but Hecate is the coolest, and Aquitaine is home.
would be cool if they made this destroyer better at, like, you know, destroying
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When the Atreus gets the Aesaar treatment, I'd guess it will skyrocket in this poll...
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GTD Aetreus, still my favorite destroyer and beam-whore of the Tevs.
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man the atreus has so much more going for it than beams, you're selling it short there
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Especially given that it's an SSM platform.
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Temeraire and Atreus TIED at six!
Colossus, Guardian Angel, Psamtik, Iceni and Atreus at four!
And the Bastion, Vassago, Custodian, Generation, Galatea, Cleopatera, and Aquitaine at two!
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...Atreus TIED at six!
...Atreus at four!
It's so popular, it's in two places at once!
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Bumping the Atreus down to five due to voter fraud (nice try Steele)
Temeraire at six!
Atreus at five!
Colossus, Guardian Angel, Psamtik, Iceni and Atreus at four!
And the Bastion, Vassago, Custodian, Generation, Galatea, Cleopatera, and Aquitaine at two!
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Bumping the Atreus down to five due to voter fraud (nice try Steele)
Temeraire at six!
Atreus at five!
Colossus, Guardian Angel, Psamtik, Iceni and Atreus at four!
And the Bastion, Vassago, Custodian, Generation, Galatea, Cleopatera, and Aquitaine at two!
(http://oi57.tinypic.com/2vlqgli.jpg)
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that makes 9 votes for the atreus in total, i believe
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What happened to the Lucifer? - She used to be at 3 votes
Vote Lucifer!
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whoops
Temeraire at six!
Atreus at five!
Colossus, Guardian Angel, Psamtik, Iceni and Atreus at four!
Lucifer at three!
And the Bastion, Vassago, Custodian, Generation, Galatea, Cleopatera, and Aquitaine at two!
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you're still listing the atreus twice!
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Generation. Gotta go for the psychopathy warship that was so hell bent on revenge, even death could not stop him.
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I can't believe I haven't voted yet!
Definitely the Vassago. An entire campaign revolves around the vessel even though its appearance is so brief!
It's so awesome it exists in a different parallel universe!
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you're still listing the atreus twice!
I think he's doing it on purpose, at this point. If we all pretend we didn't notice, he might stop.
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Favourite ship: Colossus
Reason why: Because if you told anyone the plot of Freespace 2 it would easily be their favourite ship.
It makes the CO of the Hawkwood wet himself, crushes the NTF ships barricading jump nodes and then sacrifices itself to give us a chance of keeping the Shivans out of the rest of our systems. The game just never showed us the Colossus invading NTF territory with all beams blazin' and did a pretty awful job at giving it an heroic send-off. That all still happened, though. It was a fine ship which the GTVA should be proud of. Plus it had awesome VA, even if it sounded like someone was wetting himself because of a piddling little Ravana.
Favourite SEXP: player-use-ai
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Favourite ship: Colossus
Reason why: Because if you told anyone the plot of Freespace 2 it would easily be their favourite ship.
I do not think this is correct but I will still count your vote!
Temeraire at six!
Atreus and Colossus at five!
Colossus, Guardian Angel, Psamtik, Iceni and Atreus at four!
Lucifer, Vassago, and Generation at three!
And the Bastion, Custodian, Galatea, Cleopatera, and Aquitaine at two!
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Granted, it's the only ship that has ever had a massive cutscene just for itself.
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Granted, it's the only ship that has ever had a massive cutscene just for itself.
Except the Lucifer && Bastion scenes, unless you're emphasizing "massive". The Colossus scene is longer than the other two (if you don't include the Alpha 1 monologue at the end of FS1).
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im gonna close boting
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Before you do, I just have to leave my last-second vote for the Atreus here. It's only sporting to support the best warship ever made, after all.
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UNBELIEVABLE! From out of the Kuiper Belt, a last minute vote!
TEMERAIRE VERSUS ATREUS AT SIX! It's ssssuddeeeeen DEATH
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(http://i.imgur.com/S6DCKqW.png)
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Dat texture <3
You got my vote!
ARTREUS!!!
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ARTREUS!!!
He misspelled it. The vote shouldn't count.
Temeraire is best girl ship.
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Can we have a runoff election between the top two at some point down the road?
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That would be hilarious. However, I feel bound to close voting as I announced!
At seven votes each, it's a tie between the Atreus and the Temeraire!
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NOOOOOOOOO go to penalty shootout make them fight in FRED
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Nutrius?
Is Oresetes same flavour?
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I'm not going to tally any more votes but since we've got a favorite fighter thread going I'm gonna bump this too.
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no items, final destination
...
Its closed so I'll vote now...
My favorite warship is...........GTD Russwel
Info:Boreas-class destroyer,CO is admiral Luke Hightower.The ship is the capital of the 4th battlegroup from the 3rd Fleet,Ross 128.(battlegroup is a part of the fleet in FD).Player's second homeship(WTF,why am I spoiling this?).It has a freaking BFBlue as its primary beam cannon,it can crush any destroyer by itself and its simply awesome.
THE RUSSWEL (http://www.moddb.com/mods/wardog300k/images/more-screenies4#imagebox)
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Sidenote: I hear there's a campaign out that actually uses the Sirona now. I may have to change my vote.
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Sidenote: I hear there's a campaign out that actually uses the Sirona now. I may have to change my vote.
I like your sig
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Thank you.
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Sidenote: I hear there's a campaign out that actually uses the Sirona now. I may have to change my vote.
I like your sig
I have to second this.
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NTC Trinity.
Bosch: "I need you to be the first through this mystery portal"
NTC Trinity: "OKAYYYYY!!!"
I mean, going into a Shivan infested nebula in a Fenris. And without backup.... If that doesn't count as being ballsy, I don't know what else is.
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This thread is for specific warships of a class, not classes!
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This thread is for specific warships of a class, not classes!
Haha whoops! Saw that 30 secs after my post above, and so I fixed it :P
Which brings me to another point... How many Fenrii (plural of Fenris?) do I need to take out an Erebus?
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To give the standard answer: One, accelerated to a sufficient velocity.
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10. Two to convince the Erebus to engage, two to distract the reinforcements sent to help the Erebus, six to disable the Erebus quickly before it can jump out, and one to land the killing blow.
Or, what NGTM-1R said. But I'm doubtful one Fenris would be enough. Maybe 13. Possibly dozens more.
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The Vindicator. It fell over and died without contributing anything of value, just like most of us in this life.
Serious answer: The Repulse, for its colorful history spanning ST:R and the main FS campaign.
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Or, what NGTM-1R said. But I'm doubtful one Fenris would be enough. Maybe 13. Possibly dozens more.
The key question is whether a Fenris turned into relativistic slag is still a Fenris. What's our frame of reference?
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I'm torn between the Temeraire and the Guardian Angel, but prooooobably the latter. Temeraire kicks a lot more ass, but GA has better story :P As for sexps, it has to be allow-ship, because accomplishment yay! :D
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Relativistic KKVs fired from range probably don't work on FS ships :science:
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Relativistic KKVs fired from range probably don't work on FS ships :science:
But how then are the mass drivers of UEF frigates able to damage their targets?
Separate Note: I can totally see the 3rd Shivan Invasion going like this:
*GTD Orestes deployed*
Hmmm..... No Shivans here. Wait, is THAT A RELATIVISTIC RAKSHASA!!?!?!?!?
*Kaboom*
gg Shivans. No re.
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Those are super short range and low velocity by comparison.
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Relativistic KKVs fired from range probably don't work on FS ships :science:
That rather depends on the range, and if we can get them to enter and exit subspace at relativistic speeds. Relativistic SKKV strike.
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That's actually how the Vishnan ultrabombs work!
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Those are super short range and low velocity by comparison.
But why would KE diminish over range? There's no drag in space
That's actually how the Vishnan ultrabombs work!
Those cheeky b*****ds.
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But why would KE diminish over range? There's no drag in space
Not space, Freespace. Drag totally exists in Freespace.
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Yeah, you're talking about FreeSpace here, where unpropulsed objects stop.
But even then! Long-range KKV attacks are dangerous because it's hard to see them coming in real life - they're moving near the speed of causality. FS has superluminal communications and sensors. FS ships also seem to take up arbitrary positions and velocities when they jump, making it hard to target them...although I'd like to think there's some kind of navigational or fuel limit on the delta-V involved, or you just made relativistic attacks on planets really trivial...
This way madness lies
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nagari is the ultimate subspace kkv
the elders are a kkv
everyone is a kkv
please help
why are we all kkvs what is even happening
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This thread is for specific warships of a class, not classes!
Haha whoops! Saw that 30 secs after my post above, and so I fixed it :P
Which brings me to another point... How many Fenrii (plural of Fenris?) do I need to take out an Erebus?
I actually did a test. I've set up a scenario that throws the Raynor into Fenrii hell!
Average jump in range ~~6000 meters.
Attack ship positions: Front, Starboard, Broadside, Rear
Attack ship count: 6
Erebus stationary
So I did it like that, set up 2 ships per position, and make up 10 waves of them, all attacking the Erebus head on.
All front, front, starboard, broadside didn't even stand a chance. starboard and broadside only managed to land like 5-6 beam shots, while front didn't even made it to firing range. Once all of them were pulverised, only rear attacking ships managed to inflict actual damage.
So battle report:
Erebus destroyed.
Fenrii casualtise: 54
Survived Fenrii: 60
SPECIAL NOTE. If Erebus would reposition after defeating front, starboard, broadside, it would survive at ~~50% hull integrity, even if surviving fenrii were split to attack from all sides again.
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Did you turn on the Erebus' armor and jamming? (Did you put local SSMs on the launchers ;7)
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No. I just placed the ship in, and make it fight. I also set AI to general, while Fenrii remained on Lieutenant
EDIT: I used BP2 build
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no man the important question is that did the fenrii ram the erebus
did they embrace their proud heritage as kkvs and ram the erebus at -100% the speed of light
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FS ships also seem to take up arbitrary positions and velocities when they jump, making it hard to target them...
So shoot the Fenris#KKV at arbitrary positions using a giant shotgun. Problem solved! :p
Or just shoot Artemis Station and laugh when Steele runs out of fuel.
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Toss up between the Galatea and Bastion. First time I played FS1 I was depressed for around 3 missions after the Galatea was destroyed. The commander of the Bastion was helpful for dealing with it initially. Also the Bastion saves humanity twice.
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i don't even
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EAD Devout--the first Lindos destroyer I ever got close to. I've always had a thing for that class of ship too--so different from anything I saw in FSO before.
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The Lindos owns. Lindowns.
i don't even
what
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I think I'm going to go with the Carthage. I'm in awe every time I see it.
I don't FRED so can't give a sexp.
I do wonder what the Carthage will look like once the high poly orion is finished!
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Hmm NOT the Colossus, certainly! That big hunk (junk?) of overrated metal had trouble in every mission. In the battle with the Sathanas, its guns didn't have enough energy to keep firing ("HALP MEH! I need more power, Captain!"). And, in the battle with the Bellisarius, it couldn't fire at all. The engineers behind that scandal should have been shot. Though its huge size was pleasant to look at.
I get excited when I see Demon warships. When they show up I see Big Juicy Points (BJP)! Cruisers are also very tasty, and I always feel like putting one of them in my mouth.
The Typhons were impressive. That Hammer of Light warship that suddenly shows up and blocks your path to the node while you're racing after the Shivans was very memorable. The Thoths that start several kilometers behind your run and broadcast the "Don't wait for us, Alpha 1. We'll catch up to you." were great as well. I don't remember any other non-capital ship having an impact on me like that.
I like look of the GVD Hatshepsut class, and the view of the GTD Hecate from below as well. Okay, that sounded more perverted than I expected, so I'll stop now.
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Kaiser-Ezra :) kit-bashed thanks to PCS2
[attachment deleted by nobody]
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There seems to be something horribly wrong with the textures on that.
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EASD Nemesis - micro-jumps FTW! Try to blitz-jump that Steel!
....now I badly want Inferno EA vs. Blue Planet Tevs (UEF is just a bunch of soft g*y hippies)
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Please don't use gay as a disparaging term.
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Oh no problem, the UEF is only disparaging term in the whole sentence :P
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Oh no problem, the UEF is only disparaging term in the whole sentence :P
No, this is actually a serious warning. Using "gay" or similar terms as slurs or negatives is something we do not want to see here. Kindly watch your language, you are not on the chans anymore.
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I might enter the dangerous territory here, but I still claim UEF if the only negative word in the whole sentence...seriously.
The all other adjectives are rather neutral facts accurately describing the essence of the UEF:
soft - they didn't see war and destruction for long time
<the word that makes some too sensitive> - if I remember correctly two of the main UEF carracters are actually belong to this group
hippies - the whole ubuntu peace, love and understanding philosophy.
If you feel offended then I apologize, but I didn't indended to insult anybody, rather to point out that UEF is on many levels diffrent than Tevs and EA.
I actually wanted to point out that both EA and Tev factions are much more interesting, dark and badass.
It's propably because I was spoiled by currently fashionable brutality (Game of the Thrones, House of Cards, Spartacus, Rome, The Walking Dead and a few other series). I'm actually amazed that I'm not yet oversaturated with dark characters/factions yet.
Then UEF and My Litte Pony would be a good detoxicant :)
Ending this whole side discussion and going back to EA stuff I really start to think that BP Tev took some ideas from Inferno EA. Nemesis can tactical jump (kinda like Tev sprint drive) and Lindos is basically the one ship equivalent of Tev corvette beam blitz group. Telemus supercarrier was like a stronger Titan (two BFSilver would fry Titan in 1v1 combat).
War between these two factions would be epic, EPIC!
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I might enter the dangerous territory here, but I still claim UEF if the only negative word in the whole sentence...seriously.
The all other adjectives are rather neutral facts accurately describing the essence of the UEF:
soft - they didn't see war and destruction for long time
<the word that makes some too sensitive> - if I remember correctly two of the main UEF carracters are actually belong to this group
hippies - the whole ubuntu peace, love and understanding philosophy.
If you feel offended then I apologize, but I didn't indended to insult anybody, rather to point out that UEF is on many levels diffrent than Tevs and EA.
You misunderstand. You violated our Guidelines for forum conduct. (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=87037.0)
HLP is a large community with diverse views from all points on the political, social, and spiritual spectra. While we may disagree on certain issues, a core HLP value is that we will be respectful of one another when discussing them. Being respectful means that you debate the arguments, and you don't attack the person making them; you contribute meaningfully to discussion, and do not disrupt it for others. This also means that racism, homophobic language, sexism, personal attacks, and harassment are behaviours that can earn you an immediate ban. All warnings, temporary restrictions, and bans are at the discretion of the moderating team, based on the respect principle. HLP's moderators will strive to intervene early to correct unacceptable behaviour instead of resorting to immediate formal actions; if you are the subject of a warning, this is an opportunity to change your behaviour and learn from it.
The relevant part has been bolded for your convenience. "Gay" is not a synonym for soft, weak, or whatever else you wanted to convey, not in this place.
Consider this your first warning. Should you wish to continue this discussion, please take it to PMs; But be aware that in this instance the onus is on you to change your behaviour, because we will not be changing the guidelines.
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Spartan culture engaged in formalized pederasty. Soft was not one of the adjectives you typically associate with them.
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Don't forget the UEF have the Fedayeen, who will happily hook up a dead Shivan to a supercomputer and use it to calculate the best way to triple-cross false-flag everyone.
BP Tevs were mostly just a straight extrapolation from the end of FS2. Pulled a lot on modern naval doctrine and maneuver war. If anything rhymes with them I think it's some of the old BWO fluff, at least via convergent evolution.
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@Battuta: Yeah! Fedayeen campaign was best and totally diffrent experience of the entire BP. I almost felt like I'm playing as entire different people (that would looks like shivan grade aliens to typical UEF Citizen). Fedayeen Custos-X if I really would be force to pick any UEF ship, it would be it.
@The E - I understand your point and I assure you my intention wasn't to insult nor to harass anybody. Nor did I used it a synonym for any negative meaning as you might wrongly understand (well, the blame is partially on my side for putting these words next to eachother).
I put 3 diffrent AND separate words to accuratly describe UEF nature - it might be taken as insult by someone, it might be taken as neutral fact (my stance) and it might be taken as a praise by someone else, depending on the readed.
Quick test - I describe two person:
Person A - weak, soft, indecisive, slow to react, evade conflict
Person B - tought, decisive, fast to react, fight for victory
Now you might think that I insult person A and glorify person B, but then point out that Person A is civilian in USA and Person B is a combatant in Syria who lost his entire family in war. Suddeny it's not so obvious which one is better isn't it?
This might be also incorrectly taken as drifting offtopic, but UEF nature directly impact their ship design philosophy which I pointed in my previous comments...before someone turned casual warship discussion into witch hunt.
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Using gay as a pejorative isn't cool, don't do it. If you didn't know it was a pejorative, now you do!
'A bunch of soft women hippies' or 'soft black hippies' would be equally 'accurate' but equally rude and déclassé.
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'soft black hippies' just sounds like they're made of velvet or something
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OK, honestly in peace time I could gladly live in UEF, but during wartime I'd fly Tev/EA warrships rather than UEF. Does it make me politically incorrect? or hurt someone feelings? For stating obvious?
Yeah I might exaggerated here and there with harsh words, but ending as a homophobe wasn't my intention :(
Lest get back to normal discusion before I gonna be banned.
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You're cool! Good talk.
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Regardless of any communication issues here, I wouldn't really classify the protags in WiH as "soft" or any other "déclassé" terms, although I would say the wider UEF are mostly a bunch of whining weaklings, in comparison to their TEVs counterparts. I'm also willing to bet that this is changing rapidly while the war goes on.
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What I wouldn't mind seeing is how UEF ships perform against the Tevs if they were equipped with a form of beam weaponary.
This is something I hope we begin to see the future acts.
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I find similarities in UEF and Europe, and in GTVA and the rest of the world, namely USA, China, Russia. We don't really have a Japan.
Now, before someone takes this and runs with it. I find the attitude of today's Europe somewhat undecided, soft, yet often cruel and harsh, and all in all useless in today's real world.
The other big players seem to have the flexibility and grit to survive and prosper in these specific and interesting times.
Yes, yes, I know about Cassandra and Fedayeen and the rest, this was just a random thought. :)
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What I wouldn't mind seeing is how UEF ships perform against the Tevs if they were equipped with a form of beam weaponary.
This is something I hope we begin to see the future acts.
So you wouldn't mind seeing how UEF ships would perform if they were more like the Shivan ships that Tev ships are more like. :p
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Well.. they could have a Terran twist, like a uni-directional beams... doesn't have to be like the usual beams we have seen.
But how would a UEF frigate armed with beams do against a deimos corvette for instance. Could UEF destroyers armed with beams take on an orion or even the Atreus?
But suppose in essence of what you said.... yeah I wouldn't mind.
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Well.. they could have a Terran twist, like a uni-directional beams... doesn't have to be like the usual beams we have seen.
Hey... good idea! They could even be slightly different than "beams", they could behave like cannons to make things a tad different.... hell they could even target subsystems instead of being this crude "killlzstreak" stuff, a tad more civilized, more incisive. And then.... we could name them Gauss Cannons! (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Gauss_Cannon)
(Sorry.... I'm so sorry)
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Speaking about potential UEF beam usage it makes me wonder what did the done to their (better) half of Lucifer wreckage? Put it in museum? C'mon no one in entire Sol had any brains to make use of it? Also why does UEF use so much missiles if even their own point defence is capable of shooting down most of their salvos? Granted they would be devastating against anything FS1 grade or dangerous to anything FS2 grade, but in the time of BP they are nearly useless.
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The probability of seeing UEF ships with beams (barring a defected Tev warship making an appearance) in War in Heaven is exceedingly low.
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That is indeed true. We know the war is growing in a crescendo and that in a few days or a couple of weeks, the Endgame will be reached. There is simply very little time to airdrop a new beam tech.
So what are the chances of this happening? Analytically, we can see that for this to still happen in the chapters that are left, this beam must already be in development. Hell, one could say they started the whole analysis and development of said technology right at the start of the war. But this is very improbable. Let's put this phenomenally euphemistically, it is easier to develop technologies around your strenghts than trying to catch up to your opponents' strenght who are decades ahead of you technologically in just over a year. The inverse would just be too unbelievable, and they didn't have any ship, IIRC, that could even serve as a source of inverse engineering. Yes, the UEF has captured (optionally) a TEV destroyer by the end of Tenebra, but this is already in an impossible timeline.
Much better to focus on further development of your own Gauss Cannons, hacking attacks, stealth technologies and all sorts of real advantages that the UEF has managed to bring, creating an assymetric balance of tactics between the fleets that can still provide hope for creating hits in the enemy.
To even attempt to emulate a shivan technique that the TEVs have prepared so well against for decades is not only a waste of resources, it's a total strategic dead end.
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No one expect they magically do the whole beam R&D in months and pull them out of the hat.
My questions is why they didn't used the real gem of front section of Lucifer? If GTVA could make their beams out of nothing then UEF should be capable of reverse engineer beams from Lucifer wreckage. Hell GTI was able to mount them on Hades right at the end of the war, so the majority of the tech should be already in Sol by the time of node collapse.
Cost effectivness and budget cuts is real BS if you have just been near extinct by the murderous space exterminators.
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That was a bit of harsh sarcasm Luis Dias! :(
Ok, maybe a bad example to say uni-directional (it was morning and the coffee hand't kicked in when i posted it). But I was certainly not going down the gauss cannon route. But the original idea was to see how a beam armed UEF frigate would fair against something like a Deimos, rather than focussing on the tech side of it.
But okay then... something new to beam tech in the BP verse... what about a gattling beam? Something that fires in bursts for about the same length of time as a standard beam weapon but each individual hit does less damage, and no I am not thinking AAAs, but something with a higher rate of fire to be used against capships.
Following on from what mr.WHO said the tech room could say:-
The UEF developed experimental Gattling beam weaponary by reverse engineering Shivan technology found in the Lucifer debris. Due to a lack of resources needed to generate the power required for a full powered "Lucifer beam", the UEF was not able to employ standard beam weaponary and so decided to take a different approach to the "experimental" tech by employing lower powered shots but many of them (say about 12 shots a burst). With the appearance of the superior GTVA ships and firepower, the development of the technology was accelerated, with the help of captured GTVA ships to inject fresh incentives and inspiration, then jury rigged onto UEF capital ships that were being repaired from a critical status.
Fair enough if this is not likely, but it would be pretty cool! :)
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I know I was, I'm so sorry. Still your reasoning doesn't respond very well to my latter commentary on this particular issue. I think the biggest problem here is one of timing, and a "gattling beam weapon" at this moment would be too visually similar to a gauss cannon and it would be momentarily confusing for any player.
But I'm not dismissing new weaponry tech ideas, they could be very interesting to watch and engage with gameplay-wise!
No one expect they magically do the whole beam R&D in months and pull them out of the hat.
My questions is why they didn't used the real gem of front section of Lucifer? If GTVA could make their beams out of nothing then UEF should be capable of reverse engineer beams from Lucifer wreckage. Hell GTI was able to mount them on Hades right at the end of the war, so the majority of the tech should be already in Sol by the time of node collapse.
Cost effectivness and budget cuts is real BS if you have just been near extinct by the murderous space exterminators.
This does not answer to my strategic commentary on this issue. You are effectively advising for the porsuit of a questionable R&D that will necessarily only get you to a very worse technological status than anything the TEVs can launch at you for merely having decades of experience and research more than you do. It is also a development of a weapon technology that tries to emulate shivan weaponry, and thus will result in the adoption of Shivan-like tactics (weapons always necessitate particular tactics, they come hand in hand), tactics that have been guarded against by the TEVs for decades as well. Again, you'd be developing something to get to a very mediocre technological endpoint, only to face an opponent that has specialized against these very tactics!
Again, I stress it: any UEF victory or advance has come from tactics that are completely orthogonal to these tactics, that come from completely different weapon R&Ds, that have totally different frames of tactical necessities. These caught the TEVs slightly off-hand, for they didn't have decades of experience fighting against this at all. This is the angle you should push, for here you still have a slight advantage and you will still keep an advantage if you keep advancing your particular technology.
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No one expect they magically do the whole beam R&D in months and pull them out of the hat.
My questions is why they didn't used the real gem of front section of Lucifer? If GTVA could make their beams out of nothing then UEF should be capable of reverse engineer beams from Lucifer wreckage. Hell GTI was able to mount them on Hades right at the end of the war, so the majority of the tech should be already in Sol by the time of node collapse.
What threats in post-Isolation Sol would spur the development of beam weapons?
The GTVA had the potential return of the Shivans. The collapsing GTA and the nascent UEF had nothing worse than Gefs to worry them.
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Plus the UEF inherited and developed a ton of great infrastructure for making antimatter.
In general we are always looking for clever, asymmetrical, interesting weapons and tactics that characterize the philosophies of the combatants.
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I'm a bit confused as to how they would look visually similar. I thought the gauss cannon looked like a very long laser bolt.
Where as a gattling beam would look something like the gatling laser from Fallout 3. Suppose a better example would be like the weaponary on a Minbari Nial, but on a capship of course!
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In general we are always looking for clever, asymmetrical, interesting weapons and tactics that characterize the philosophies of the combatants.
I was trying to base my reasons from canon, but of course that we all know that this is, by far, the most important reason of all!
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I'm a bit confused as to how they would look visually similar. I thought the gauss cannon looked like a very long laser bolt.
Where as a gattling beam would look something like the gatling laser from Fallout 3. Suppose a better example would be like the weaponary on a Minbari Nial, but on a capship of course!
Sounds like the two anti-subsystem flicker beams on the Erebus.
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No one expect they magically do the whole beam R&D in months and pull them out of the hat.
My questions is why they didn't used the real gem of front section of Lucifer? If GTVA could make their beams out of nothing then UEF should be capable of reverse engineer beams from Lucifer wreckage. Hell GTI was able to mount them on Hades right at the end of the war, so the majority of the tech should be already in Sol by the time of node collapse.
Cost effectivness and budget cuts is real BS if you have just been near extinct by the murderous space exterminators.
And my question for you is: why would they use reverse-engineered weapons from a ship that just had the snot beaten out of it repeatedly by the GTA Orestes?
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By the time of the node collapse Orestes wasn't even on the drawing boards. You can't be worry about threads that don't exist yet. My point is that with Hades finished shortly after the node collapse, I think that whole beams R&D documentation (or most of it) should be already in Sol. Add the Lucifer debris and you have beam starter pack waaaay ahead of the GTVA.
Obviously UEF didn't developed into this path - I really want to know the logic behind that. Not even the AAA beams?
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Obviously UEF didn't developed into this path - I really want to know the logic behind that. Not even the AAA beams?
Again, what enemies would the collapsing GTA need beams to fight?
And since it took until FS2 for AAA beams to become commonplace on GTVA ships, it seems to me that they're developed from heavier beam systems. No heavy beams, no AAA. Sol GTA/UEF never needed heavy beams, so they never laid the groundwork necessary for AAA beams. Went down more conventional lines instead.
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Again, what enemies would the collapsing GTA need beams to fight?
And since it took until FS2 for AAA beams to become commonplace on GTVA ships, it seems to me that they're developed from heavier beam systems. No heavy beams, no AAA. Sol GTA/UEF never needed heavy beams, so they never laid the groundwork necessary for AAA beams. Went down more conventional lines instead.
Reductive. It took until FS2 for heavier beams to become commonplace on GTVA ships as well, so by that logic they were developed from AAA beams.
We don't particularly see railgun systems, or for that matter heavy torpedo systems comparable to those the UEF uses on its warships, in FS1 at all. The Lucifer at least deployed something beam-like, establishing it was possible. If there are targets that required these weapons systems and drove their development, however, there are targets that could have required beams.
This isn't actually an answer, basically.
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I don't even get what you're trying to prove? Sure, if you want to you can totally write a setting where whoever ended up left in Sol reverse-engineered beams from the Lucifer and ended up with a suite of weapons more similar to the GTVA than the UEF's. The BP team decided they wanted an asymmetric war, so they wrote a setting where that didn't happen and the UEF developed their own thing, and they wrote it pretty well. WiH justifies most of its conceits very eloquently. That doesn't mean that it's the only way to develop the FS universe, and indeed the team have been pretty vocal in encouraging people to explore other directions in their own work; but people keep on misunderstanding that and trying to pick holes in BP for not including their pet concept.
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In the BPverse I think GTI actually kept a lot of its more radical research outside Sol, to preserve its asymmetric advantage over other factions in the GTA power structure.
The front half of the Lucifer blew up, and then Solar civilization nearly collapsed. The newborn UEF had no access to Vasudan scientists, who are usually pretty important in helping Terrans make big leaps in energy related topics.
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I don't even get what you're trying to prove?
Aside from the fact that Aesaar is offering justifications that don't hold water? Nothing. I'm fine with BP doing its own thing because they wanted to, but an answer that's complete sophistry isn't a satisfying one and good storytelling demands better.
Battuta's is.
The matter is closed for my part.
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Again, what enemies would the collapsing GTA need beams to fight?
And since it took until FS2 for AAA beams to become commonplace on GTVA ships, it seems to me that they're developed from heavier beam systems. No heavy beams, no AAA. Sol GTA/UEF never needed heavy beams, so they never laid the groundwork necessary for AAA beams. Went down more conventional lines instead.
Reductive. It took until FS2 for heavier beams to become commonplace on GTVA ships as well, so by that logic they were developed from AAA beams.
Hades had heavy beams. They obviously came first. Unless you think GTI had AAA beams but never used them or equipped them on anything.
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The loss of the Idun Dictionary suggests that GTI info in Sol was scattered pretty badly.
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Was it STR or BP that said GTI was primarily based on the GTD Legion and it decentralised after the ship was destroyed? I remember something about that.
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satanus its mine favorite becouse its strongest freespace2 ship in univers
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If I could be a freespace 2 ship, I would want to be satanus, his power is maximum
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Hades had heavy beams. They obviously came first. Unless you think GTI had AAA beams but never used them or equipped them on anything.
Hades had whatever beam-like weapons the Lucifer had. We really don't know the particular line of descent between those and GTVA beams, save for the Lucifer probably being an inspiration. Both sets got blown up and nothing in the modern GTVA's arsenal packs quite the punch of an SSL so it seems fair to assume the line's not as direct as you are suggesting.
I mean, by this logic, they built an exact copy once 23 years ago and have been working with watered-down knockoffs, despite having either a full or partial set of the original's blueprints, ever since. That...doesn't sound particularly plausible. Even the Colossus only had BGreens until they fried the safeties.
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I don't know why you're so hung up on semantics, but whatever. Point is, the GTA in Sol only had experience with Shivan heavy beams. The Lucifer's forward beams are all that wound up in Sol when the node collapsed, and there were no threats in Sol that required the GTA or UEF to build heavy beams, so they didn't bother trying to replicate them.
Yes, in hindsight, we know AAA beams are possible. The GTA/UEF didn't. In the absence of any threats requiring heavy beams, they had no reason to invest in the technology, and therefore no way to know AAA beams were possible.
The GTA outside Sol, however, did have a need for that technology. GTI adapted it first, and some time after Silent Threat, the GTA and PVE followed suit. At some point, they realised the technology could be downscaled and adapted to shoot at fighters. This, to me, is the most likely explanation for why the UEF has no AAA beams. If you have an alternative, do share it.
Who cares if the beams on the Hades were SSLs in tables? BP replaced the beams on the Lucifer with something weaker (LReds), and getting hung up on table stats is the worst way of discussing BP.
In a BP context, there's no reason to believe the beams on the Hades were carbon-copies of the Lucifer's LReds, or anywhere near as powerful.
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BP replaced the beams on the Lucifer with something weaker (LReds)
HReds for the front beams, and LReds for the side beams to be precise.
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LReds aren't weaker than SSLs though. They both have a 10s recharge time but LReds do 23100 damage per pulse while SSLs only do 15000.
And if you're only looking at per-pulse damage rather than DPS then even BGreens are better than SSLs as they do 26400 damage per pulse. Even by BP no Terran beam can actually out-DPS an LRed if we take table stats as canon. Even the HBlue does just over half the DPS of an LRed. Yeah, A Lilith has more frontal firepower than a Raynor. Even the remade Erebus with an HBlue and BBlue only beats it by around 6%.
All of this is obviously just table wank. But if you're going to bring up table stats at least make sure you double check them.
Also it would seem kindof strange to accept that the Hades had beams as good as the Shivan ones with the same recharge times. Those are based on so much more than the beam itself, no Terran reactor could handle a direct fire beam with a 10s recharge time and a 15000 damage pulse. It would seem much more likely that they managed to get the per-pulse damage around Shivan levels but couldn't refire it as quickly due to a reactor bottleneck. This would also explain the "downgrade" by FS2.
Also I wouldn't really take anything from the original ST as canon as it was under thought and just bad. I'd rather just pretend it never existed.
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We don't particularly see railgun systems, or for that matter heavy torpedo systems comparable to those the UEF uses on its warships, in FS1 at all.
Fusion Mortar? I'm pretty sure that in a damage per second sense, that was the most potent weapon in the Terran arsenal during FS1. Certainly, looking at the design of the Fenris/Leviathan, they've clearly been built around their missile turrets. Plasma weapons have the advantage of (probably) not really having significant ammo restrictions, but it makes a certain degree of sense that, if they needed to put out a lot of damage very quickly, upgrading the fusion mortar would be a good way to do it for post FS1 Terrans.
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In the BPverse I think GTI actually kept a lot of its more radical research outside Sol, to preserve its asymmetric advantage over other factions in the GTA power structure.
The front half of the Lucifer blew up, and then Solar civilization nearly collapsed. The newborn UEF had no access to Vasudan scientists, who are usually pretty important in helping Terrans make big leaps in energy related topics.
That's the explanation that actually sounds plausible to me. Cover all lose ends too.
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LReds aren't weaker than SSLs though. They both have a 10s recharge time but LReds do 23100 damage per pulse while SSLs only do 15000.
And if you're only looking at per-pulse damage rather than DPS then even BGreens are better than SSLs as they do 26400 damage per pulse. Even by BP no Terran beam can actually out-DPS an LRed if we take table stats as canon. Even the HBlue does just over half the DPS of an LRed. Yeah, A Lilith has more frontal firepower than a Raynor. Even the remade Erebus with an HBlue and BBlue only beats it by around 6%.
All of this is obviously just table wank. But if you're going to bring up table stats at least make sure you double check them.
Don't have STR or FSPort installed, so I can't check how powerful the Hades and Lucifer beams are. The wiki only has the stats for the original FS1 blobbeams.
HReds for the front beams, and LReds for the side beams to be precise.
Yes. Which is weird because HReds are weaker than LReds are. Unless I messed my calculations up.
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Just checked FSPort and STR. The "SSL Beam" in Fsport has $damage at 850 and +life at 3. The recharge time is still 10 so the full damage per pulse is 850*5.5*3=14025, a bit less than the blob-beam. So the SSL Beam in fsport does 1425 DPS, a bit more than the HBLue(and obviously the HBlue completely blows anything short of a BFRed in initial pulse damage).
STR doesn't seem to have new weapons or ships aside from hulls or a shivan(the one that jumps on your fighter).
The fc2 file for the last mission simply spawns the GTD Hades from the fsport table with the beams replaced with BGreens.
EDIT: Nvm, it uses SSL Beams if you select fsport-str as your mod, FRED just defaulted to BGReens when I didn't have SSLs loaded.
And yes, HReds are weaker than LReds. They do slightly more damage per-pulse but have a 30s recharge time instead of the LRed 10s. Forced Entry would probably be a lot easier if the Lilith had its LRed replaced by an HRed. Seems weird to let a cruiser have it but make Lucy downgrade to HReds.
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That's because the plot never really makes you realise that.
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Yes. Which is weird because HReds are weaker than LReds are. Unless I messed my calculations up.
From a meta perspective, I assume that this is so that the Lucifer doesn't stomp the Orestes 30 seconds after it starts firing. I'm not sure what in-universe reason we could come up with, though.
EDIT
Just checked FSPort and STR. The "SSL Beam" in Fsport has $damage at 850 and +life at 3. The recharge time is still 10 so the full damage per pulse is 850*5.5*3=14025, a bit less than the blob-beam.
It's closer than you think, a beam actually tick 5.88 times per second rather than 5.5, according to this (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=80789.msg1610498#msg1610498), which bring to total damage per pulse to 14994. Scratch that, see below.
EDIT #2: actually doing the full calculations:
3000 / 170 = 17.64 ticks
17 * 850 = 14450 damage per pulse
So yeah, it is a bit weaker than the blob.
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Eh, Liliths are bull****. Cruisers with the firepower of an Orion(~3 Bgreens) shouldn't exist.
Then again Shivans in general are bull****. With the constant 1-upping their ships do I guess the Liliths skipped a few stages when it came to mounting beams.
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Yes. Which is weird because HReds are weaker than LReds are. Unless I messed my calculations up.
From a meta perspective, I assume that this is so that the Lucifer doesn't stomp the Orestes 30 seconds after it starts firing. I'm not sure what in-universe reason we could come up with, though.
Beam overloading to increase effective damage against the Raynor-class' reactive armor.
Remember, the Orestes was winning tactical engagements with the Lucy, it just got worn down by Shivan logistics and repair.
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My favourite warship has got to be the Belisarius. Like someone said earlier "Negative Vasudan" and the tone the ships captain says it in is my reason.
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You mean the ship whos' captain sentence his whole crew to death for no strategic, nor tactical gain?
C'mon even that Orion which rammed Collossus at least tried to achive something meanigfull (like changing the course of war....but who would thought that front section of Collie was actually so durable - it looks like most fragile part of the ship).
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I quite like the reaction I had to the HVD which tried to stop me in the final non subspace mission of freespace the great war.... but Orestes for life...For I......am Orestes.
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I quite like the reaction I had to the HVD which tried to stop me in the final non subspace mission of freespace the great war.... but Orestes for life...For I......am Orestes.
I imagine you doing the Gainax pose ontop of the Oreste's.
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After seeing this thread it took a bit of thought, but I'm going to have to go with the Lucifer. A single, silent, imposing menace marching forward, laying waste to all in its path. And yet, at the same time, the only thing capable of bringing the Terran and Vasudan races together. God ****ing bless you Lucy, you will and won't be missed. :v:
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I came into this thread to say I love Lucy! The Lucifer has one of the most interesting ship designs, and I much prefer FS1 Shivan ship design to FS2 Shivan ship design. It's indestructible and it destroys people's home planets.
One more vote for Lucy, Battuta!
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GTD Bastion for me, hauled ass from FS1 to FS2, but GTD Galatea is a close second, i cried internally (i was 8-9), got so mad i replayed the mission 3 times and still Lucifer destroyed it.