Author Topic: Yet another doomed Capella theory!  (Read 16231 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline General Battuta

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 214
  • i wonder when my postcount will exceed my iq
Yet another doomed Capella theory!
So, let's take as a given the following -- I recognize that these are all contentious points, based entirely on speculation, but I just want to toss this out there.

This is not a theory I believe in with all my heart; I merely present it for the sake of entertainment.

Abstract, for those too lazy to read: the destruction of the Lucifer crippled the Shivans' strategic command-and-control abilities, and their actions in FS2 were, as a result, confused and ineffectual. The final destruction of Capella was a call for help across galactic distances, using a supernova as as beacon.

Speculative premises, then:

1. The Sathanas is a relatively combat-ineffective juggernaught design. It is not a warship to the Shivans, but a specialized effector for certain applications of their subspace technology -- perhaps including the opening of jump nodes and the destruction of stars. It has tactical value, but it is not a main-line warship.

2. The destruction of Capella by the Sathanas fleet was one of two things: first, the generation of a supernode (this is a common theory) or, second, a signal. I hypothesize, without real evidence, that the Shivans sacrificed multiple vessels in an attempt to touch off a supernova as a signal to distant allies -- extragalactic Shivans. Capella was chosen as the target over Gamma Draconis, but why I do not know -- perhaps properties of the star, or perhaps because of the potential for collateral damage.

I would like to advance the idea of the FS2 Shivans as a confused and leaderless force.

At no point in FS2 do the Shivans exhibit the ruthless, unstoppable goal-seeking behavior of the Shivans in FS1. They appear to have lost their offensive momentum. I posit that the destruction of the Lucifer beheaded the leadership of the Shivan collective.

We see at the end of FS1 that the destruction of the Lucifer leaves the Shivan fleets confused and helpless. It may be that the Lucifer was a unique vessel that served as the 'queen' of Shivan forces in the local area or in the galaxy at large. This kind of centralized intelligence is a common cliche in science fiction, and it rarely has a good explanation. I suggest that the Lucifer itself might be a post-singularity AI of some kind -- a 'Power', for those here who read Vernor Vinge -- and that its mission requirements prevent it from granting similar intellect to its subordinates.

The Lucifer spearheaded the Shivan attempt to exterminate the Terran and Vasudan species, possibly because the Shivans knew that this area of space had once hosted the Ancients -- a powerful and dangerous race that had come very near to uncovering weaknesses in Shivan technology.

The destruction of the Lucifer left the Shivan collective in chaos. After years of rebuilding the Shivans achieved a kind of order, but when the Knossos at Gamma Draconis opened, they were only able to perform an ineffectual sortie to secure their new beachhead -- a single cruiser and a group of transports. (In fact, based on a CBanim before 'The Lion at the Door', there may have been a Ravana on station at one point which then departed back to the nebula.)

The technological progress of the GTVA forces might have been easily countered by the Shivans under ordinary circumstances, but as it was, the Shivans were only able to act effectively on the defensive: deploying successively larger and larger vessels to attack GTVA warships, only to lose them to fighter strikes. At last they resorted to the deployment of one of their Sathani, in the same system-sterilizing role as the Lucifer -- only to find that the GTVA had a match for that as well.

In the end, with their first Sathanas sortie destroyed, the Shivans found themselves with the raw firepower necessary to destroy the GTVA but none of the requisite tactical acumen. They seem to have lost the capability to use transient or hidden nodes to outflank GTVA forces -- the only canon explanation for the 'skipping' behavior of Shivan attacks in FS1.

Hampered by the bulk of their own war machine and the absence of any firm guiding will, the Shivans called for help, activating a supernova messenger contingency to signal other Shivan groups throughout the local universe.

This might lead to :V:'s hints that FS3 would contain an 'even bigger problem' and vessels as large as planetary bodies.

There have been other theories I've read which suggested that the Shivans overestimated the capabilities of the GTVA by a considerable margin. I would like to give credit where it's due.

I am not a strong believer in this theory -- I like the idea of the Shivans as inexplicable and unstoppable destroyers -- but I do think it's an interesting one to consider.

Thoughts?

 

Offline karajorma

  • King Louie - Jungle VIP
  • Administrator
  • 214
    • Karajorma's Freespace FAQ
Re: Yet another doomed Capella theory!
I assume you mean that the signal propagates through subspace unless you expect the Shivans to wait a bloody long time. :p


One thing you don't explain though. Why Capella?
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

[ Diaspora ] - [ Seeds Of Rebellion ] - [ Mind Games ]

 
Re: Yet another doomed Capella theory!
"Chief-Assemblyman Putin, what happened to Capella?"

"It sank 'sploded."

 
Re: Yet another doomed Capella theory!
Ah, a chance to put my personal theory on the differences between the FS1 and FS2 Shivans to work, excellent.

The question that always sticks in my mind is one that none of these non-canonical theories about the Shivans ever seems to address:  Why did the Shivans wait 30 years to send a follow up force, and why didn't they reappear in the systems they first attacked?  The Ancients believed they had trespassed, overstepped their bounds somehow.  From the voice over narration, it doesn't sound as if the Shivans found them, but the other way around.  Their empire was greater then the limits of known space, and yet most of the jump nodes (admittedly not ALL of them) that are not already known are too unstable for any but the masters of subspace travel (The Shivans).   It seems patently obvious when the Knossos is first unveiled:  This was the mechanism the Ancients used to stretch their empire across more worlds then man currently knows.  The discovery of a second and then 3rd Knossos cements that.

Who knows how much further they extended before finally encountering the Shivans?  And how could activating 1 Knossos device trigger countless others on the opposite side of a subspace portal, countless lightyears away?  It makes much more sense to believe that when the Ancients retreated to their home system (GTVA space) they attempted to shut down the first knossos leading to the systems the Shivans came from.

Like the GTVA discovered, the jump node didn't instantly collapse, but had been stabilized.  The Ancients wouldn't have any reason to know this ahead of time, after all, they were the masters of space, crushing all they encountered.  Why collapse portals when you enter them in the certain knowledge of your superiority?  And so the Shivans followed them, and all their works were undone.

So what does that have to do with the Lucifer and it's rather small battle group attacking the GTA and PVN 10,000 years later?  The subspace portal in Gamma Draconis was no longer active.  What the Ancients set out to do when they shut the device off was accomplished through time, effectively cutting off all the systems on the other side.  Since the Shivans never seem to study the technology of other races, and since the gate was on the opposite side, they had no ability to follow.  And yet there were still Shivans on this side of the node.

I surmise the Lucifer and it's fleet were somehow trapped, perhaps several lifetimes (or even longer) before.  Shivans possess much greater knowledge of subspace travel and thus can use nodes too unstable for Terran or Vasudan craft, so the known galaxy for them would be quite a bit larger then it is for us, but still potentially cut off from the regions they came from.  And so they wandered, who knows for how long, until they detected the subspace travel we generated and set out to destroy us.

I don't think the Shivans in Gamma Draconis had ever encountered humanity before, nor had the Lucifer's fleet been in contact with the rest of the Shivan race.  Had they been, simply destroying the Lucifer should have triggered the sort of response the destruction of the SJ Sathanas generated (unless you think they built those in 30 years), and it would have been on their terms of engagement.  They came through the node in Gamma Draconis and attacked us because we opened that door, and Shivans are attracted to significant subspace activity.  Had Bosch not pursued his ultimately futile agenda, the GTVA might never have encountered the Shivans again.
That sums up my position on the subject.  Plus, if the Sathanas isn't intended to be a full on combat spacecraft, I'd hate to see what they consider an actual warship. 

So while it's an interesting theory, I'd disagree with it for all the same reasons I came up with my own, as it doesn't really explain the particular points I addressed.  Well, other then maybe the jumpnodes thing, but there's a limit to your freedom of motion when you're in fact restricted to one point of entry into a system with only one known exit, and do keep in mind the Shivans never tried to go past Capella to begin with.  There's no reason to suggest that the Shivans have lost their mastery over unstable subspace nodes when the notion that Gamma Draconis doesn't have other nodes going anywhere useful is simpler.  Remember, the Lucifer fleet was already in our space when it started systematically destroying us, and if it really had been wandering around the galaxy for millenia they probably had explored it all previously so they'd know where those nodes led.
Everything is better with monkeys.  Even pie.

That is the best first post I have ever seen.

 

Offline TrashMan

  • T-tower Avenger. srsly.
  • 213
  • God-Emperor of your kind!
    • Minecraft
    • FLAMES OF WAR
Re: Yet another doomed Capella theory!
Quote
"Chief-Assemblyman Putin, what happened to Capella?"

"It sank 'sploded."

Why does this remind me of Spuk, Kork and Schrotty? ....(T)Raumschiff Surprise .. aaah, those were some good gags!

LOLZ:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=search_videos&search_query=traumschiff&search_sort=relevance&search_category=0&search=Search&v=&uploaded=&filter=1&page=1
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!

 

Offline Snail

  • SC 5
  • 214
  • Posts: ☂
Re: Yet another doomed Capella theory!
I still think they nuked the star to make a supernode, not as a signal...

 

Offline General Battuta

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 214
  • i wonder when my postcount will exceed my iq
Re: Yet another doomed Capella theory!
They're both possibilities I like, and I'd be happy to use either one if I was penning a campaign story.

Karajorma --

I assume you mean that the signal propagates through subspace unless you expect the Shivans to wait a bloody long time. :p


One thing you don't explain though. Why Capella?

I did address that, rather briefly.

Quote
Capella was chosen as the target over Gamma Draconis, but why I do not know -- perhaps properties of the star, or perhaps because of the potential for collateral damage.

I'd imagined there'd be a subspace signal -- maybe the star was a booster for the signal? Or perhaps they're just very, very patient. The contingency they were activating might have been a long-term one.

Marcus, I've read your theory and I think it contributed a great deal to my own. They both seem possible to me, and again, they'd both make interesting premises for a campaign (though the nice thing about this one is the way it hooks into a greater menace.)

 

Offline Snail

  • SC 5
  • 214
  • Posts: ☂
Re: Yet another doomed Capella theory!
What about my theory? :nervous:

 

Offline TrashMan

  • T-tower Avenger. srsly.
  • 213
  • God-Emperor of your kind!
    • Minecraft
    • FLAMES OF WAR
Re: Yet another doomed Capella theory!
It suckoroz, HA! :drevil:...Yes, I'm EVIIIIIL...

Now for a "better" theory -  the shivans might have been cold and were simply trying to turn up the heat a bit, but they broke the sun.
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!

 

Offline Snail

  • SC 5
  • 214
  • Posts: ☂
Re: Yet another doomed Capella theory!
It suckoroz, HA! :drevil:...Yes, I'm EVIIIIIL...

I think somebody snuck a snuke up your snizz... And I thought you were a man, too.

 

Offline General Battuta

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 214
  • i wonder when my postcount will exceed my iq
Re: Yet another doomed Capella theory!
What about my theory? :nervous:

Actually, yes, I did like yours a lot. I think it was what actually triggered this line of thought.

 
Re: Yet another doomed Capella theory!
Naahh, this theory is doomed because here comes mine (and it's not a long @$$ story because it's already past 1:00 AM here):

The Shivans were scared s**tless, and the only hope they've seen to survive as a species was to jump to some really far away place. They decided to make a supernode by detonating a star, warping out and leaving a supernova behind to make sure they aren't followed untill they could destroy the supernode from the other side.

They also detonated Capella too early for many ships to either make it to the supernode, or charge their jump drives to warp out, because they simply ran out of time.

Whoever or whatever was the reason they were running remains a mystery for the GTVA, because we didn't have any units in Gamma Draconis to find out once the Shivans evac'd their fleet to Capella.
'Teeth of the Tiger' - campaign in the making
Story, Ships, Weapons, Project Leader.

 

Offline Retsof

  • 210
  • Sanity is over-rated.
Re: Yet another doomed Capella theory!
 :shaking: I don't think I want to know what chases Shivans away!
:::PROUD VASUDAN RIGHTS SUPPORTER:::

"Get off my forum" -General Battuta
I can't help but hear a shotgun cocking with this.

 

Offline TrashMan

  • T-tower Avenger. srsly.
  • 213
  • God-Emperor of your kind!
    • Minecraft
    • FLAMES OF WAR
Re: Yet another doomed Capella theory!
I have a theory...either they're running from Derek (not so) Smart or from An0n.
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!

 

Offline Snail

  • SC 5
  • 214
  • Posts: ☂
Re: Yet another doomed Capella theory!
I have a theory...either they're running from Derek (not so) Smart or from An0n.

an0n is not capitalized, for he is so cruel he is beyond grammar.

*chainsaw*

So they're running from some evil monster that eats planets for breakfast? The idea's good for a campaign, but it doesn't explain the differences between the FS1 and FS2 fleets, or why the FS1 fleet decided to go for a turkey shoot while the Sathanes decided to run away.

 

Offline TrashMan

  • T-tower Avenger. srsly.
  • 213
  • God-Emperor of your kind!
    • Minecraft
    • FLAMES OF WAR
Re: Yet another doomed Capella theory!
I have a theory...either they're running from Derek (not so) Smart or from An0n.

an0n is not capitalized, for he is so cruel he is beyond grammar.

And that's exactly why I do capitalize it. It's an insult!

Hm..what do you think Derek did to scare of shivans? Was he caught ..doing inapropriate things with a sathanas? :LOL:
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!

 

Offline Snail

  • SC 5
  • 214
  • Posts: ☂
Re: Yet another doomed Capella theory!
Your comments are getting increasingly annoying. They're just simply bad jokes that don't add anything to the discussion. :doubt:

 

Offline TrashMan

  • T-tower Avenger. srsly.
  • 213
  • God-Emperor of your kind!
    • Minecraft
    • FLAMES OF WAR
Re: Yet another doomed Capella theory!
Alright..I maybe be overdoing it with the comedy bit.. :P

so, to get back on topic.

It's not a bad theory General Butta. It does explain some things nicely.
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!

 

Offline General Battuta

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 214
  • i wonder when my postcount will exceed my iq
Re: Yet another doomed Capella theory!
Hemhem.

Battuta.

And thank you.

 

Offline TrashMan

  • T-tower Avenger. srsly.
  • 213
  • God-Emperor of your kind!
    • Minecraft
    • FLAMES OF WAR
Re: Yet another doomed Capella theory!
That was NOT deliberate. I was in no way trying to say butt.
It was a typo. Sry. ;)
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!