Hard Light Productions Forums

Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: DaBrain on July 21, 2005, 06:19:25 pm

Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: DaBrain on July 21, 2005, 06:19:25 pm
This looks incredible cool!

It was just a test, but it's awesome!

(http://img326.imageshack.us/img326/9241/screen21300fx.jpg)

(http://img326.imageshack.us/img326/333/screen21323st.jpg)

(http://img326.imageshack.us/img326/6963/screen21392sq.jpg)

(http://img326.imageshack.us/img326/1341/screen21507mp.jpg)

Damn, I'm proud. This time I'm really happy with the effect!

It needs some tweaking, but I'll release it soon.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: aldo_14 on July 21, 2005, 06:28:04 pm
whoah
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Taristin on July 21, 2005, 06:29:24 pm
just looks like two and three planes showing the same effect to me. Is that what it's suposed to be?
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Cyber Phoenix on July 21, 2005, 06:30:20 pm
Since i can't find any words to describe how awesome it is i'll simply leave it at this:

:jaw: :jaw: :jaw: :jaw: :jaw: :jaw:


Excelente Job :yes:
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: DaBrain on July 21, 2005, 06:32:35 pm
Its only one model... and it's too big atm. One of the things I have to fix.


BTW I was testing again... took a few shots. The second one shows the model is too big.

(http://img326.imageshack.us/img326/5546/screen21724kk.jpg)

(http://img326.imageshack.us/img326/179/screen21661lc.jpg)


The coolest thing is the feeling. It's really 3d. ;)
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Bobboau on July 21, 2005, 06:33:37 pm
thank you for finaly doing some work on the 3D shockwave front, keep in mind it is posable to specify a specific shockwave to both a ship explodeing, and a weapon impact, on a per class bassis.

and I beleive the model should be 40 meters to sync up with the shockwave impact
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: FireCrack on July 21, 2005, 06:46:17 pm
If only the same could be done with 2d ones, owell

Would be nice to have lotsa different types of shockwaves, when this is done i'l definitley use it.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: DaBrain on July 21, 2005, 06:47:41 pm
@Bobboau
I got a *slight* problem here.

The shockwaves uses an animated glow map. Well, that looks great, but the animation begins with the first frame again when it played all frames... very bad.. :(

I think the animation shouldn't repeat for shockwaves at all. Could this be hardcoded?
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Bobboau on July 21, 2005, 07:00:22 pm
can you live with it for a few more months? materials system will let you define how it works on a per-material basis. and anything I do now will just end up getting removed in short order.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: DaBrain on July 21, 2005, 07:13:50 pm
:( Sure. (Maybe I can find a way around that on my own... I got an idea.)

I just got the right size...

(http://img330.imageshack.us/img330/7147/screen22648oa.jpg)

(http://img330.imageshack.us/img330/70/screen22675wu.jpg)

(http://img330.imageshack.us/img330/4530/screen22706sx.jpg)

This one almost went through me. ;7

Edit: BTW you know the animation frames already. ;)
It's the last planar shockwave I've released. ^^
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Unknown Target on July 21, 2005, 07:18:05 pm
Wow, really cool! :) What happens if you look at it from straight on the side, though? It has thickness, right?
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Ghost on July 21, 2005, 07:24:15 pm
Sweet ****ing bajeezus. Release, please. I'd play freespace all day if it had stuff like that in it.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Garvonis on July 21, 2005, 07:25:25 pm
For real! Stop making us drool! I wanna see that beauty go off in my game! :yes:
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: DaBrain on July 21, 2005, 07:30:01 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Unknown Target
Wow, really cool! :) What happens if you look at it from straight on the side, though? It has thickness, right?


(http://img330.imageshack.us/img330/396/sw4ht.png)

Well, it has... somehow. ;)

Edit: It will still look flat from the side. (Somehow)
This is a shot from the side.
http://img326.imageshack.us/img326/179/screen21661lc.jpg

Quote
Originally posted by Ghost
Sweet ****ing bajeezus. Release, please. I'd play freespace all day if it had stuff like that in it.


Ok, ok. :)

That's what the reason I made it for.
But it just got a bit more complicated. I *think* I can make it work though, but I need some more time.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Jeryko on July 21, 2005, 07:30:51 pm
You continue to amaze.  Now we just need better explosions...


I also noticed that there is NO glow 'on top' of the shockwave.  Just outward.  Is that on purpose or as yet done?
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Garvonis on July 21, 2005, 07:43:26 pm
I got an idea.. This "blue" shockwave seems to be the result from the energy systems.. But, what if you tackle on the small red shockwave from the first shockwave dilly in the other thread DaB? That will give off the effect of the "combustion" part. But, simply make the red wave more "firey" in nature. Not like a simple wave, but make it look like a wave of fire. Blue shock wave from the energy/power, red fire wave from the igniting fuel.

Though yea, you gotta keep the original explosion. That's where the red firey wave comes in. It's the fire getting pushed outward faster.

I dunno, just an idea.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: DaBrain on July 21, 2005, 07:48:51 pm
I'll release a 'fire-style' shockwave later. It's no problem.

For now I try to coordinate the "Shockwave speed" value for each ship, so the frames won't get repeated. (I hate table work...  :rolleyes: )

I guess this might cause stuttering or too fast shockwaves again, but at least it will work... well it should work. ;)

Maybe I'll have to fix some other things before.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: BlackDove on July 21, 2005, 07:50:10 pm
Blue sucks.

Color it better.

Shivans are red.

Otherwise :yes:
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Taristin on July 21, 2005, 07:50:22 pm
I think he wants it to blow up red first, for the ship going boom, and then the big blue shockwave for the energy reserves cooking off. But that's more the job of the explosions IMO.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: DaBrain on July 21, 2005, 07:59:13 pm
I don't like blue shockwaves very much too, but this one looks surprisingly good, even for my taste.



@Garvonis
I think it will look odd if the shockwave is red right after the explosion. Don't forget the torps you shoot at cap ships. Unless you have a lot of gfx ram, those torps will detonate with the same shockwave. ;)

I know what you mean though. I'll see what I can do, but I can't promise too much. ;)
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Garvonis on July 21, 2005, 08:00:33 pm
Right.. First you get the firey explosions, then the main explosion with a firey shockwave, that might be doable with a 3D explosion animation, maybe, then the energy shockwave a second later from the complete breakdown of the energy core.. No need to explain further, I think everyone gets it.

As for another color, I suggest an amber yellow, or perhaps a white that is mixed with whatever other ambient light is present, if that's even possible.

(Doh, slow posting.. lol) Well, whatever's do-able. This is awesome as it is. But perhaps the firey shockwave could be more sphere-like, instead of circle? Has anyone tried that?


Oh, and by the way, I got a 256MB DDR Sapphire ATI Radeon 9600.. lol..

And I think small red, firey, spherical shockwaves added to the explosions would make torp explosions look insanely cool...
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: FireCrack on July 21, 2005, 08:56:13 pm
Normal=red
Bombs=Blue-white (this)
EMP=Purple (or mabye yellow to correlate with the lightning)
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: redsniper on July 21, 2005, 10:57:39 pm
Personally, I like blue shockwaves. I liked the default ones and I like these too. Good job DaB :yes:
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Mongoose on July 21, 2005, 11:37:25 pm
I'm seriously almost shedding tears of joy over this thing.  It's utterly beautiful.  This definitely deserves a highlight :D
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Primus on July 21, 2005, 11:54:12 pm
Yes! You know how to do it, DaB :yes2: :D :yes:
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Dave2040 on July 22, 2005, 05:43:18 am
OMG! This looks so fantastic!
Good job! ;7
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Sigma957 on July 22, 2005, 05:56:44 am
Awesome DaBrain :yes:
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: DaBrain on July 22, 2005, 06:28:49 am
Well, sorry guys, there is a new problem.

It looks like the glow map starts at random point, rather than at the beginning. It guess that doesn't mattter for ships, but it kills shockwaves. :(


I can still release what I have if you want it.


Quote
Originally posted by Mongoose
I'm seriously almost shedding tears of joy over this thing.  It's utterly beautiful.  This definitely deserves a highlight :D


... that's it for the highlight... In a few months perhaps...
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Nico on July 22, 2005, 06:43:42 am
Does the shockwave use the ship normal, or does it spawn at random angle?
Looks very leet otherwise.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: DaBrain on July 22, 2005, 07:05:02 am
It seems to use the ship normal. :doubt:
Title: Release!
Post by: DaBrain on July 22, 2005, 07:08:04 am
Release: Blue animated 3d shockwave
(Does not work correct!)

Download (http://www.game-warden.com/starfox/Non_SF_related_stuff/3D_Shockwave_Alpha.rar)

Small fix (http://www.game-warden.com/starfox/Non_SF_related_stuff/shockwave01_fix.rar) (fixes the main texture, which got buggy after DXT compression)


I hope you'll have at least a bit fun with it. ;)

(http://img316.imageshack.us/img316/8045/screen22922of.jpg)
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Roanoke on July 22, 2005, 07:27:06 am
wow @ that.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Nico on July 22, 2005, 08:09:23 am
Quote
Originally posted by DaBrain
It seems to use the ship normal. :doubt:


That might be annoying on large capships.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Martinus on July 22, 2005, 08:51:03 am
[color=66ff00]On a rating of one to BOOM I give this thread BOOM.

Space combat just got a bit more terrifying. :D
[/color]
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: AqueousShadow on July 22, 2005, 11:21:25 am
*drool*
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Boomer on July 22, 2005, 12:15:44 pm
Try instead of spawning it from the ship, have them spawn from the debris.  

For example, take the instance of the red initial explosions.  these would be normal 2D explosions made by the ship breaking up.  Once the ship has been transformed to debris, the blue shockwave could emanante from the debris which since they spin, would put off shockwaves out in random directions.

Uh, I just read my own post....

Never mind, too much work.  Probly wouldn't work anyway.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: DaBrain on July 22, 2005, 12:30:44 pm
I've no idea how to change the 'spawn object'.


But it sounds pretty interesting.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: DarthWang on July 22, 2005, 03:11:56 pm
Nice, but why does it say "Rumpshaden"?
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: kasperl on July 22, 2005, 03:33:18 pm
Hulldamage in German.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Ghost on July 23, 2005, 04:17:19 am
Heh. "Rumpshaden." So, is "rump" "hull" in German? That's kinda funny(no offense towards present company intended).
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: WMCoolmon on July 23, 2005, 04:26:55 am
More descriptive than "BLAST", that's for sure... :p
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: TopAce on July 23, 2005, 04:27:09 am
DaBrain is Portugese, he has the Portugese version, If I am correct.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Col. Fishguts on July 23, 2005, 06:09:13 am
DaB is German, IIRC.
And it's "Rumpfschaden", "Rumpf" = "hull" and "Schaden" = "damage".

That's it for the German lesson for today, see you next week when we'll cover dirty words.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: TopAce on July 23, 2005, 06:10:30 am
DaBrain IS Portugese.
He may be using the German version, still.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: DaBrain on July 23, 2005, 06:45:37 am
Quote
Originally posted by TopAce
DaBrain IS Portugese.


Wow, I didn't know that. ;)


I am german. ;7  Really.


DarthWang and Col. Fishguts are correct. "Rumpfschaden" is the german word for "Hulldamage".

@Ghost :lol: Too bad it's "Rumpf" and not "rump". That would be indeed very funny. ;)




BTW did one of you test the shockwave already?

There are two reasons why I didn't use a 3d shockwave with real "thickness".

1. No cool glow effect. (Would look terribly boring.)

2. If the shockwave really hits you (so you are "in" the shockwave) you would get ugly intersection problems.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: FireCrack on July 23, 2005, 03:00:31 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Col. Fishguts
That's it for the German lesson for today, see you next week when we'll cover dirty words.


Damn, the only class i already know :drevil:
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: DaBrain on July 23, 2005, 04:28:36 pm
@TopAce

I'm curious. Why do you think I'm protugese?
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: BlackDove on July 23, 2005, 05:39:13 pm
He hates the portugese.

Let's burn him.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Taristin on July 23, 2005, 05:48:01 pm
Swamp Thing is Portugese. IIRC.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: MetalDestroyer on July 23, 2005, 05:56:11 pm
Dabrain, you did a great job. Woaaaw, i can't imagine. Now i want to play Fs 2 for a long time. Aaarg, how to play to 4 games in the same time O_o
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: WMCoolmon on July 23, 2005, 06:29:01 pm
;7

(http://fs2source.warpcore.org/screenshots/owchburn.jpg) (http://fs2source.warpcore.org/screenshots/owchburnb.jpg)

Dunno if I should commit it, though, it might break backwards compatibility. :p
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: FireCrack on July 23, 2005, 06:41:35 pm
Upload a build then, if you can.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: DaBrain on July 23, 2005, 07:01:30 pm
Quote
Originally posted by WMCoolmon
;7

(http://fs2source.warpcore.org/screenshots/owchburn.jpg) (http://fs2source.warpcore.org/screenshots/owchburnb.jpg)

Dunno if I should commit it, though, it might break backwards compatibility. :p



... Love...


I see a small bug in there... My fault.


Well, I held back a small thing that makes those shockwaves even a bit better. ;)

Maybe it's time to release it too.

BTW If you have that build already, please send me the link via PM. ;)
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: WMCoolmon on July 23, 2005, 07:02:09 pm
OK, I seem to have fixed the repeating shockwave problem. However, I'm still seeing ghost (grey) shockwaves just in front of the big blue ones. I'm pretty sure the frame of the non-glowmaps and the glowmaps are synced, is the ghosting supposed to be intentional?

Edit: The build's AMD64 Linux, so I don't think it'd be very helpful. But I uploaded it to http://fs2source.warpcore.org/exes/fs2_open_db.rar

Edit 2: I'm going to hold off commiting to CVS until I have a less hackish way of randomly rotating the shockwaves, just in case it matters somewhere.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: DaBrain on July 23, 2005, 07:02:59 pm
Quote
Originally posted by WMCoolmon
OK, I seem to have fixed the repeating shockwave problem. However, I'm still seeing ghost (grey) shockwaves just in front of the big blue ones. I'm pretty sure the frame of the non-glowmaps and the glowmaps are synced, is the ghosting supposed to be intentional?


That's my mistake. ;)

Sorry. :rolleyes:
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: DaBrain on July 23, 2005, 07:10:52 pm
Here is the fix:

http://www.game-warden.com/starfox/Non_SF_related_stuff/shockwave01_fix.rar

Put this into the 'maps' folder.

You can delete shockwave01.dds. It looks buggy. Dunno... I blame DXTc. ;7



Quote
Originally posted by WMCoolmon
Edit: The build's AMD64 Linux, so I don't think it'd be very helpful. But I uploaded it to http://fs2source.warpcore.org/exes/fs2_open_db.rar
 


Noooo! *dies*²


²I call this the 'got exited too early syndrom'. ;7
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: WMCoolmon on July 23, 2005, 07:23:48 pm
Heh. :p

That seems to have fixed the ghosties.

Changes are in CVS; looking through the code, I doubt there's any missions that'll be broken; not even the SEXP lets you pick where shockwave(s) might appear (Although that'd be pretty easy to do, if someone has need of that).

Edit: You know, I'm no UVmapping genius, but couldn't you do the shockwave quadrants thing with the model?
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: DaBrain on July 23, 2005, 08:02:11 pm
Quote
Originally posted by WMCoolmon

Edit: You know, I'm no UVmapping genius, but couldn't you do the shockwave quadrants thing with the model?


I'm not really sure what mean.
Could you explain the "shockwave quadrants thing"?

Do you suggest to toss the animated map? :confused:
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Taristin on July 23, 2005, 08:05:15 pm
Make an ultra high res quarter of the shockwave, and then use UV mapping to line it up the four times to make a ring. Yea, that should work with this. Has nothing to do with animation or not, DaB.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: DaBrain on July 23, 2005, 08:13:01 pm
Ah right...

That won't work that easily. Those frames were not suppoed to be used this way.

There would be visible seams. :(

Creating this kind of frames could be pretty hard and willof course be very time-intensive.


We could test it though. I can take care of the "quater" frame stuff, but I'm not sure how to do this 'exact' UV map stuff. ;)


BTW 12 MB for a shockwave aint that much anyway... I don't think anybody will mind.

Well, maybe some low-end users would rather have a shockwave with seams, than frame drops... :blah:
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Taristin on July 23, 2005, 08:15:47 pm
Ah, easy enough. If you use 3d max, UV map the thing normally, then use the symmetry modifier on the mesh. Mirror along the Y axis, and then again along the  axis, and it should use the same UV coordinates for the entire thing. Only issue would be to then go into the UV Unwrap tool and make it so it uses the entire pixel area for the UV map rather than only the quarter, But that's easy too.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Mav on July 23, 2005, 09:47:31 pm
:yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes:  Great !!
     ... and please keep it blue, that looks very good (I always preferred the style of the FS1-explosion over that of the FS2 one).


Now if it would be made that every fighter releases a shockwave when killed (quick ships.tbl change) like in Wing Commander Prophecy, this would make for some nice fireworks ! ;7    (good-looking .tbl values would however have to be found on a trial&error-basis)
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: WMCoolmon on July 24, 2005, 12:55:45 am
Buh, I like shockwaves how they are now. If everything made shockwaves, there would be no specialness to them.

That being said, DaBrain, eat your heat out/meltdown your video card: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,34068.0.html
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: TopAce on July 24, 2005, 03:56:13 am
Quote
Originally posted by DaBrain
@TopAce

I'm curious. Why do you think I'm protugese?


I probably remembered incorrectly. But I am sure someone is Portugese around here.

But your shockwaves look bearable. It should be a little darker, if you ask me. Or flatter.

Quote
Originally posted by BlackDove
He hates the portugese.

Let's burn him.


Any proof? You're seriously in the need of being seen by a doctor. I can give you a good address if you need medical control.

As for burning me, you can't achieve that. You certainly don't want to investigate who I am, travel to the place where I live and you still don't have any chance of succeeding. I will sooner throw a knife at your face than you pull the trigger on your flamethrower.
And where are you going to get a flamethrower from?
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Black Wolf on July 24, 2005, 06:10:59 am
Quote
Originally posted by TopAce


And where are you going to get a flamethrower from?


They're not that hard to make actually - there were some instructions posted here awhile back.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: BlackDove on July 24, 2005, 08:12:59 am
Quote
Originally posted by TopAce
Any proof? You're seriously in the need of being seen by a doctor. I can give you a good address if you need medical control.

As for burning me, you can't achieve that. You certainly don't want to investigate who I am, travel to the place where I live and you still don't have any chance of succeeding. I will sooner throw a knife at your face than you pull the trigger on your flamethrower.
And where are you going to get a flamethrower from?


I was born with the Flamethrower sonny.

I'll melt you and that knife. People who see Portugese everywhere must be stopped.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: TopAce on July 24, 2005, 08:35:35 am
Must you spam the thread? I don't see Portugese everywhere, I only thought DaBrain was Portugese. And? What's so special?
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: BlackDove on July 24, 2005, 09:06:31 am
Yeah, yeah, you can try to get out of it now, but we know better.

I'll be watching you.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: TopAce on July 24, 2005, 09:14:22 am
If you want, we can continue this via PMs. DaBrain won't be happy to see his thread closed because you continued this off-line discussion. DaBrain confirmed I was wrong by saying he was German. It should have ended there. Then you came along.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: DaBrain on July 24, 2005, 09:26:58 am
Well, no problem. :)

Please don't argue (not even via PM).
BlackDove just wanted to make a joke. I know, but TopAce is right. (thx)

It would be very sad if this thread gets locked beacuse of the off-topic postings.



@WMCoolmon is is possible to disable a few vectors for the shockwave? It looks flat if you see it from the side. But only for a really small number of degrees.

(Has to be relative to the player.)
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: BlackDove on July 24, 2005, 11:45:03 am
So...can you make the shockwave a different color? Is that possible?
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: DaBrain on July 24, 2005, 11:54:08 am
Yeah, I plan to do that soon. ;)
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: BlackDove on July 24, 2005, 01:34:43 pm
Yayz.

If they're colored like the ones you previously made IIRC, this will probably be the last shockwave FS2 ever needed :p
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Fragrag on July 24, 2005, 02:12:01 pm
I can't wait to make the Capellan sun... ;7
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: WMCoolmon on July 24, 2005, 03:15:18 pm
Quote
Originally posted by DaBrain
@WMCoolmon is is possible to disable a few vectors for the shockwave? It looks flat if you see it from the side. But only for a really small number of degrees.

(Has to be relative to the player.)


Probably, but that's getting into maths stuff, and you know me and maths stuff... ;)

I think it'd be Player_rotation (in radian angles) - Shockwave_rotation (also in radian angles), but all orientation data is stored in matrices. I can convert those to angles and do the following op, but it'd be a lot more efficient if I could just figure out how to do it with matrices.

After that, I could add a variable to ships.tbl and/or weapons.tbl that would let you set the ranges for x,y,z. It's now randomly rotated on all 3 axis.

Although it really seems more like the domain of going in a "Shockwaves" section of weapon_expl.tbl. That'd require some slight changes to how how shockwaves are loaded.

So, maybe. :p I'd like to make sure that multiple shockwaves work first. (Which involves mass-renaming some 94 files. :p)
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: DaBrain on July 25, 2005, 01:03:46 pm
Quote
Originally posted by WMCoolmon

Probably, but that's getting into maths stuff, and you know me and maths stuff... ;)



:lol: Same here.

Do you want me to test the multiple shockwave stuff. It's no big deal for me. :)
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: WMCoolmon on July 25, 2005, 03:30:35 pm
If you want to, otherwise, I'll probably get around to it sometime.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Mav on July 25, 2005, 03:39:02 pm
Quote
Originally posted by WMCoolmon
Buh, I like shockwaves how they are now. If everything made shockwaves, there would be no specialness to them.


Just small ones, the big ones would stay for the caps. I was only stating my opinion - if you don't want it, let it be (I'll possibly make this for myself sometime).

@DaBrain:
If you make any major changes with the shockwave after changing the colour, it'd be nice if you could also change it for the blue one (please).
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: DaBrain on July 25, 2005, 05:01:19 pm
I can hardly expain what I'm doing ATM.

Maybe you could say I'm adding fire fragments to the shockwave.
I think that won't look too well with the blue version.

I hope it will look fine for the new variant.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Cobra on July 25, 2005, 06:06:08 pm
when i saw those ships going off i went OMGWTFBBQ!! :D

'zis ees eencredible! :yes:

and fix that bug, ya heartless jerk. :p
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: DaBrain on July 25, 2005, 06:44:01 pm
Bug? Which bug?

The only bug it had was fixed already.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: DaBrain on July 25, 2005, 06:59:46 pm
Sorry guys, you will have to wait a bit longer.

The shockwave turned out too colorful for my taste.

(http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/9020/screen25181uj.jpg)

(http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/8585/screen25931nf.jpg)

(http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/8080/screen25093jc.jpg)
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Bobboau on July 25, 2005, 08:21:43 pm
hey, look! it's the eye of sauron!
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Fenrir on July 25, 2005, 08:29:04 pm
Quote
Originally posted by DaBrain
Bug? Which bug?

The only bug it had was fixed already.


He's probably referring to the glowmap repeating/starting in the wrong place.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Scuddie on July 25, 2005, 10:22:36 pm
Why not have the tip of the shockwave coated with red fragments, and the rest be left alone, or maybe vice versa?  I think that would look good :).
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: WMCoolmon on July 26, 2005, 01:42:36 am
That effect reminds me of something in one of the cutscenes, a star, or maybe the infamous black hole.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: MetalDestroyer on July 26, 2005, 01:47:10 am
Wow, i love it.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Kie99 on July 26, 2005, 02:31:01 am
That is Godly. :jaw:
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: DaBrain on July 26, 2005, 05:52:16 am
Quote
Originally posted by kietotheworld
That is Godly. :jaw:



I don't know...


It's very colorful. But if you don't mind, I can release it.


(http://img318.imageshack.us/img318/2532/screen24890lz.jpg)
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Fineus on July 26, 2005, 06:21:16 am
It looks fantastic, but perhaps it would look better if you used similar color effects to the explosions in game? No reason for the explosion to be white with orange edges while the shockwave is solid orange / yellow.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Col. Fishguts on July 26, 2005, 08:05:53 am
Very cool effects. But why is the Cain/Lilith firing on the Moloch in that pic ?
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Krackers87 on July 26, 2005, 09:00:41 am
Quote
Originally posted by DaBrain



I don't know...


It's very colorful. But if you don't mind, I can release it.


(http://img318.imageshack.us/img318/2532/screen24890lz.jpg)


Thats amazing...

reeeeeleaase
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: TopAce on July 26, 2005, 09:13:07 am
Quote
Originally posted by Col. Fishguts
Very cool effects. But why is the Cain/Lilith firing on the Moloch in that pic ?


To create more explosions.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: DaBrain on July 26, 2005, 10:36:44 am
Quote
Originally posted by Col. Fishguts
Very cool effects. But why is the Cain/Lilith firing on the Moloch in that pic ?


It's firing at a Deimos, but the Lilith is in the way.



I'm slowly getting to a better effect, but I had little time to work on it today. Real life interferences... :blah:


(http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/420/screen26126ci.jpg)


Quote
Originally posted by TopAce


To create more explosions.


:lol:  Yeah, that would be a good reason too. ;)



Quote
Originally posted by Krackers87


Thats amazing...

reeeeeleaase


I'll pack it together later. :)


Quote
Originally posted by Kalfireth
It looks fantastic, but perhaps it would look better if you used similar color effects to the explosions in game? No reason for the explosion to be white with orange edges while the shockwave is solid orange / yellow.


It's kinda hard to get more colors in there... I screwed with it too much...

Maybe I should start from the scratch... dunno.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Jetmech Jr. on July 26, 2005, 11:29:55 am
DaBrain, what would Freespace2 do without you?
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: redsniper on July 26, 2005, 11:49:32 am
look ugly. :nod:
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Flaser on July 26, 2005, 02:39:58 pm
Looking at those screenshots (with the AWSOME shockwaves) made me think.

Why don't we have proper lighting?

If beams can illuminate ships and we have point lightsources, why don't we put one inside the epicenter of the shockwave?

Source mages can this be done?
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Ghost on July 26, 2005, 02:45:39 pm
Holy ****. I want the firey orange shockwave.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Nico on July 26, 2005, 03:14:46 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Flaser
If beams can illuminate ships and we have point lightsources, why don't we put one inside the epicenter of the shockwave?


That wouldn't be great. The shockwave spawns in the middle of the ship, so the shockwave light would be inside the mesh, therefore it wouldn't lighten much of it, just portions of the ship that are facing it, like towers, turrets and stuff facing inward. Would look weird, with straight cuts in the shadows
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: DaBrain on July 26, 2005, 03:27:10 pm
Ok here is the current effect.

I like the blue one better. Maybe I'll redo the red one from the scratch later. :)

Download (http://www.game-warden.com/starfox/Non_SF_related_stuff/3d_shockwave_fire.rar)
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Cobra on July 26, 2005, 03:31:08 pm
AWESOME! *downloads*

Blue Shockwaves = Terrans
Yellow Shockwaves = Vasudans
Red Shockwaves = Shivans

:D
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Kie99 on July 26, 2005, 05:50:25 pm
DaBrain, do you do effects professionally?  I really think you could.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Fenrir on July 26, 2005, 06:12:02 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Cobra
AWESOME! *downloads*

Blue Shockwaves = Terrans
Yellow Shockwaves = Vasudans
Red Shockwaves = Shivans

:D


If something like that was ever implimented, It'd better stay optional. The races are already color-coded enough as it is.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: MetalDestroyer on July 26, 2005, 06:46:00 pm
Just a stupid question, shall we need the tbl files from your primary version ? I mean the 2 tbl file in the zip (ship and weapons).

Another question, how to replace the main explo when you take down an enemy fighter with the one from the TBP 3.2 ??
I put all the explo i found in the effects folder but, i don't see those effects during missions.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Taristin on July 26, 2005, 07:07:24 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Fenrir


If something like that was ever implimented, It'd better stay optional. The races are already color-coded enough as it is.


I second this. Colour coding everything looks ridiculous.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: DaBrain on July 26, 2005, 07:24:38 pm
Quote
Originally posted by MetalDestroyer
Just a stupid question, shall we need the tbl files from your primary version ? I mean the 2 tbl file in the zip (ship and weapons).

Another question, how to replace the main explo when you take down an enemy fighter with the one from the TBP 3.2 ??
I put all the explo i found in the effects folder but, i don't see those effects during missions.



The question isn't stupid at all. The animation of the frames shouldn't depend on the "shockwave speed" value in the ships.tbl.

But the speed of the model animation could be connected to this.

ATM I'm using the new ships.tbl. (The one I've posted.)
I'll test this tomorrow, but if you want to help me you could test it too. I don't think it's a big deal. :)

Second question:

That's weird. Try to do exactly what I wrote:

Quote
Originally posted by DaBrain

Just extract the effects folder and serch for "exp". Copy all files into your FS2  effects folder. (Yes... a lot of files.)

(The explosions are EFFs.)


This just has to work. :)

Unless...

Well, try to create a new TBL, fireball.tbl

Code: [Select]
; fireball.tbl
;
; Table file for specifying which filenames are to be used for which explosions
;
;
#Start

$Name: exp04 ; Used for the 4 little explosions before a ship explodes
$LOD: 1

$Name: WarpMap01 ; Used for the warp in / warp out effect
$LOD: 1

$Name: WarpMap02 ; Used for the KNOSSOS warp in / warp out effect
$LOD: 1

$Name: exp05 ; Used when an asteroid explodes
$LOD: 1

$Name: exp05 ; ship explosion 1
$LOD: 1

$Name: exp06 ; ship explosion 2
$LOD: 1

#End
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: MetalDestroyer on July 27, 2005, 03:36:07 am
Thanks Dab, now it work well except for the hull impact where i have always the same effects :/
Do you know which one from TBP makes a good effects ?
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: DaBrain on July 27, 2005, 06:12:41 am
Maybe exp20. It looks pretty cool for beam hits.

You would have to rename all frames to ExpMissileHit1_xxxx though.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: KARMA on July 27, 2005, 07:14:28 am
dunno... I LOVE those new shockwaves, but....
what I'd REALLY like to see as a shockwave (at least for capships) is.. who remember the one from the star exploding at the beginning in ST:generation, with the station being destroyed by that massive spherical wave? it wasn't colourful or "nice", but it was the most "realistic" shockwave I can remember from any sci-fi
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Ghost on July 27, 2005, 01:13:43 pm
Ok, DaB? I put it in, and the explosion is going way too god damn fast. Is there any way to slow the thing down?
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: MetalDestroyer on July 27, 2005, 01:54:26 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Ghost
Ok, DaB? I put it in, and the explosion is going way too god damn fast. Is there any way to slow the thing down?


Quote
Originally posted by Dabrain
The question isn't stupid at all. The animation of the frames shouldn't depend on the "shockwave speed" value in the ships.tbl.

But the speed of the model animation could be connected to this.

ATM I'm using the new ships.tbl. (The one I've posted.)
I'll test this tomorrow, but if you want to help me you could test it too. I don't think it's a big deal.


:D
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Taristin on July 27, 2005, 03:07:55 pm
Use it for something with a slow shockwave, like a meson bomb, and you can watch, annoyed, as the shockwave changes frames slowly.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Ghost on July 27, 2005, 03:27:07 pm
@ MD: I put in both the tables which came with release 1.0. Was there another tbl file I missed?
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: DaBrain on July 27, 2005, 06:25:57 pm
Sorry, I got no time to work on anything today. Well, I'll do it tomorrow.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: TrashMan on July 27, 2005, 06:36:08 pm
Hmm..am I the only one who isn't impressed with it?

No offense DaBrain, but i like tje bluish, normal  one you made the most. Planar explosion jsut don't do it for me.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: DaBrain on July 27, 2005, 06:46:43 pm
Eh, the red one isn't planar...


Well, I like the blue one most too. There is nothing wrong with that.


Maybe I should have eplained this better:

The red version has to be copied over the blue one.


The model and the tables are missing in the package. It's not the final version of the red shockwave anyway, so I didn't care.


Please wait for the final version if you're not happe with it, or just use the blue one. :)
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: MetalDestroyer on July 28, 2005, 02:01:32 am
The red one is pretty good but too colorfull. For now, i use the blue version.
I'm waiting the final version. I hope it'll be better ^^
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: DaBrain on July 28, 2005, 06:45:49 am
I've decided to redo it from the scratch, so it may take a while.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: General Freak on July 28, 2005, 09:39:57 am
Wait, what?!
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: [Wolf]Maverick on July 28, 2005, 10:07:03 am
where can i get the blue shockwave, it looks amazing but the link is broken?
Thanx
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Grug on July 28, 2005, 11:19:58 pm
WOW!

Those are amazing works of art! :D

Excellent work DaBrain! ^_^

[size=-4]Gamewarden seems to be down though... :( [/size]
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Scuddie on July 29, 2005, 01:21:03 am
The blue one looks awesome, but it also looks like it doesn't belong.  The orange/red one looks awesome, but it also looks overwhelming.  I still think that if you put the two together, it would look perfect.  A redish orange flaming head of explosion followed subtley by a blue trail would work perfectly, IMO.

EDIT:  I was thinking of something like this:
(http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/6881/shockwave9cw.jpg)
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: DaBrain on July 29, 2005, 07:00:11 am
Quote
Originally posted by [Wolf]Maverick
where can i get the blue shockwave, it looks amazing but the link is broken?
Thanx


Very, very strange... I access the FTP with my FTP software. The files are there, but still the links don't work. :confused:
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Fineus on July 29, 2005, 07:00:19 am
That just doesn't look very realistic. I mean... there's no obvious reason for the shockwave to go from white to light blue and then suddenly to orange and dark red. It just doesn't seem to merge very well.

I guess that's down to taste, but it doesn't seem to work for me.

Personally I think shockwaves tailered to the species would work best. White (on the inside of the wave) to dark blue (on the outside) for Terrans. White to bright green for Vasudans and white to dark blood red for Shivans. The more cinematic the better (like explosions) rather than bright solid comic-like.

That's my 2c :)
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Mefustae on July 29, 2005, 08:41:09 am
It would be logical to have colour-coded shockwaves, as each ship is presumably using a distinctive reactor & fuel system specific to their own species (would be a problem for something like the Deimos; a Terran Ship with a Vasudan Reactor if i remember correctly)...but then, you have to ask yourself, with so much colour-coding already...when will it end?! Sooner or later, the Species should cross over aesthetically, and i think it should be the shockwaves...in my opinion; standardisation for all races involved...
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Taristin on July 29, 2005, 08:46:55 am
Why would different ships need to produce different colour shockwaves? Do you think that after 60 years of living together, Terrans and Vasudans still use different fuel in their reactors? Or that they ever truely did at all? Just because the vasudan reactors were more efficient doesn't mean they have to make everything a different colour when they cook off. That's just taking a running theme (like the beam colours) and taking it waaaaay too far.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: DaBrain on July 29, 2005, 09:23:36 am
I'm 100% sure those 'code-colored' shockwaves would look ugly. It maybe easily possible to recolor them in real-time, but the result can't look very good...


I think even if all races have different effect sets, they shouldn't vary too much.


I'd like to have more race specific shield effects. Not only a different color.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: TopAce on July 29, 2005, 09:30:08 am
What if you made a grey-scale explosion and have the SCP implement ship-specific colourization? The HUD is technically such.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: DaBrain on July 29, 2005, 09:50:23 am
This should be possible with a few code changes. (The shield effect already uses this system.

Bob's material system will also allow this afiak.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Fineus on July 29, 2005, 11:15:46 am
Quote
Originally posted by Raa
That's just taking a running theme (like the beam colours) and taking it waaaaay too far.

How do you figure? If the beams are different colours per race - you'd think the reactors would be as well. It rather emphasises that each race uses a different power / fuel / energy / whatever to keep things ticking over.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: aldo_14 on July 29, 2005, 11:35:46 am
Quote
Originally posted by Mefustae
It would be logical to have colour-coded shockwaves, as each ship is presumably using a distinctive reactor & fuel system specific to their own species (would be a problem for something like the Deimos; a Terran Ship with a Vasudan Reactor if i remember correctly)...but then, you have to ask yourself, with so much colour-coding already...when will it end?! Sooner or later, the Species should cross over aesthetically, and i think it should be the shockwaves...in my opinion; standardisation for all races involved...


I'm not sure the colour would correspond to the reactor type; IMO it'd be a radial burst of emitted gas which burns as it's spread before extinguishing.  So the one colour would be more suitable - IMO.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Boomer on July 29, 2005, 12:02:32 pm
I think it would rely more on building materials.  The reactor cooking off supplies the energy to convert just about everything to a plasma, but color in flames and explosions comes from the presence of metals, not non metals.  We already know the Terrans and Vasudans build differently (Serapis armor compared to Myrmidon or even Apollo Armor), why shouldn't there be a difference in the color of the explosion?  I can see not changing HOW they blow up, but to say that every time a big ship, built by two different species blows up, that it is going to produce the same color of shockwave every time is somewhat, improbable to me.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: General Freak on July 29, 2005, 12:04:48 pm
I just think the colour should be based on ship class.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: DaBrain on July 29, 2005, 12:13:04 pm
Here we go again... taste problems.

I don't care about the technical background. It want the best looking option. ;)

Like I said I think shockwaves from differnt races shouldn't differ much, but I think it would be cool if you're able to see the difference though. Just a bit.


Well, I'm the one who's doing this stuff anyway... so it's decided now. :drevil:


Edit: BTW the links are working abain. :)
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: General Freak on July 29, 2005, 01:12:10 pm
You must obey us! We are your (non-paying) customers!
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: FireCrack on July 29, 2005, 02:38:58 pm
Quote
Originally posted by DaBrain
Like I said I think shockwaves from differnt races shouldn't differ much, but I think it would be cool if you're able to see the difference though. Just a bit.

Well, I'm the one who's doing this stuff anyway... so it's decided now. :drevil:
 


1:Yeah, i agree, like all the shockwaves being red per-se but mabye vasudans ahve a slight greenish tint to it or somthing etc...


2:that's the best additude to take on matters like this
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Taristin on July 29, 2005, 02:59:28 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Kalfireth

How do you figure? If the beams are different colours per race - you'd think the reactors would be as well. It rather emphasises that each race uses a different power / fuel / energy / whatever to keep things ticking over.


Pfft. Yeah. Ok. The Terrans use Cold Fusion, the Vasudans use antimatter, and the shivans use subspace to power their ships... Suuure. If anything, recent Terran and Vasudan technology is a direct adaptation of whatever they captured from the Shivans during the great war.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Ulala on July 29, 2005, 03:07:04 pm
These look excellent! :yes:  Y'know what would really spice things up? Some lense flares at the origins of the explosions.

*runs from the ensuing flamewar about lenseflares in space without actual lenses and about just lenseflares in general* ;)
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: AqueousShadow on July 29, 2005, 03:24:46 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Raa


Pfft. Yeah. Ok. The Terrans use Cold Fusion, the Vasudans use antimatter, and the shivans use subspace to power their ships... Suuure. If anything, recent Terran and Vasudan technology is a direct adaptation of whatever they captured from the Shivans during the great war.


Exactly. That's one reason why the shielding technology shouldn't be different at all. If necessary, there would be slight modifications to terran and vasudan shielding technology (which they would share BTW) that would distinguish them from the Shivans because of constant research and experimentation. The Shivan shields shouldn't even change, because those shields have been that way for God knows how long.

As for shockwaves, I'm thinking that even visually, color coordination would be going too far. It'd just be this huge firework show that you can't even enjoy, unless you make a mission specifically for sitting there and watching it.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Scuddie on July 29, 2005, 04:11:24 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Kalfireth
That just doesn't look very realistic. I mean... there's no obvious reason for the shockwave to go from white to light blue and then suddenly to orange and dark red. It just doesn't seem to merge very well.
Well, to explain, the outer radius gets it's appearance from the inflamable explosions, and the inner radius gets it's appearance from the energy explosions.  There are two different elements, but in the same shockwave.  The fiery explosion wouldn't have a trail anyway, if you're using realism as an example.  The logic is that the flame will go wherever the energy force is pushing it.  I also think having two seperate shockwaves for the two seperate reactions would be unattractive, but that's just me.  Anyway, it was just a thought.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: WMCoolmon on July 29, 2005, 04:15:12 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Kalfireth
That just doesn't look very realistic. I mean... there's no obvious reason for the shockwave to go from white to light blue and then suddenly to orange and dark red. It just doesn't seem to merge very well.  


It's half-scientifically sound, since red-orange-light blue is the order of low energy->high energy.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Scuddie on July 29, 2005, 04:20:30 pm
By that statement, the blue should be on the outside, and the orange red be on the inside, no?
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: TrashMan on July 29, 2005, 04:58:09 pm
too many colors = too cartoony.

Hell the beam cannons and turrets, shields and engine glows are enough.

Now there's flak color, explosion color, shockwave color and God knows what's next!

Window color? Cockpit color? nebula trail color?
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: MetalDestroyer on July 29, 2005, 05:22:02 pm
No, space color, ships color :nerd: :crazy:
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: DaBrain on July 29, 2005, 06:34:23 pm
I love the coders.

All shockwaves work 100% correct now:

Try this build.
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,34181.0.html

Happy. ;7
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: MetalDestroyer on July 30, 2005, 01:46:28 am
Should we need your tbl file from the first released or not ??
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Psychonaut on July 30, 2005, 05:44:06 am
:yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes:

So i´m just comming from my two-week vacation and DaBrain makes it look like a whole new game again. I swear, i will never play FSOpen without these shockwaves again AMEN.:eek: :eek: :eek:
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Boomer on July 30, 2005, 10:06:17 am
Quote
too many colors = too cartoony.



This coming from the people who included a cell shading feature in FSO?:nervous:
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: DaBrain on July 30, 2005, 11:24:24 am
Quote
Originally posted by MetalDestroyer
Should we need your tbl file from the first released or not ??


Well, I use it. :)

I've not investigated this issue though. :nervous:
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Flaser on July 30, 2005, 01:00:25 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Scuddie
The blue one looks awesome, but it also looks like it doesn't belong.  The orange/red one looks awesome, but it also looks overwhelming.  I still think that if you put the two together, it would look perfect.  A redish orange flaming head of explosion followed subtley by a blue trail would work perfectly, IMO.

EDIT:  I was thinking of something like this:
(http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/6881/shockwave9cw.jpg)


Kalifireth, actually that's the most realistic shockwave I ever saw.
Closer to the epicenter, the matter is hotter, therefore it produces more high energy emission (ergo lower wavelenght, ergo closer to the blue part of the spectrum).
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Fineus on July 30, 2005, 01:22:46 pm
Then I don't like reality ;)

But that's my personal taste. Doesn't matter. Go ahead and do what looks / works best.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Ace on July 30, 2005, 05:17:37 pm
I actually like it. More or less accurate, and reminiscent of both the blue FS1 shockwaves and the firey ones now popular.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: MetalDestroyer on July 30, 2005, 05:23:58 pm
Hey Dab, i found a little bug in Open GL when playing in Nebula.
I don't know why i got that, but i just have the model, the ani doesn't work very well in nebula.
In this picture, i use the Red Shockwave. I didn't try to play with the blue one.

Take a look :

(http://img306.imageshack.us/img306/2074/fs2openg2005072820050730220318.jpg)
(http://img306.imageshack.us/img306/8563/fs2openg2005072820050730220340.jpg)
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Scuddie on July 30, 2005, 05:34:24 pm
I would actually say that looks pretty awesome in nebulae...  If not for the large opaque figure in the 2nd pic.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: WMCoolmon on July 30, 2005, 06:10:29 pm
DB: What are the table changes that I need to do to have the 3D shockwave working right (The blue one?)

Actually, my plan is to have this effect (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,33858.0.html) for missile shockwaves, and the blue 3D effect for ship shockwaves, so there may be some combining needed. mv_adveffects hasn't been lagging enough lately. :p
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: FireCrack on July 30, 2005, 06:39:26 pm
I think it would be best to go the other way around, because GTVA missiles (bombs atleast) are said to use antimatter warheads and i always imagined an antimatter shockwave as being blue-white. But that's why tables are so modifiable i guess.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: DaBrain on July 30, 2005, 07:02:36 pm
@MetalDestroyer It works fine for me, but I use D3D. I'll try OpenGL.

This problem only appears in nebula missions?
It's probably a code bug then I fear.


Quote
Originally posted by WMCoolmon
DB: What are the table changes that I need to do to have the 3D shockwave working right (The blue one?)

Actually, my plan is to have this effect (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,33858.0.html) for missile shockwaves, and the blue 3D effect for ship shockwaves, so there may be some combining needed. mv_adveffects hasn't been lagging enough lately. :p


Well, I didn't change much... I've only edited the 'shockwave speed' value in the ships.tbl, but I'll have to tweak that a bit for the 3d shockwaves I think.

It's shouldn't require any other table changes.

Maybe mutliple shockwaves require entries in the weapon_expl.tbl, but I don't know. You're the coder. ;7


Edit: I think I can approve the bug MD found.

(http://img327.imageshack.us/img327/8800/nebbug5ux.jpg)

The distance to the shockwave seems to affect the opacity.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: WMCoolmon on July 31, 2005, 12:51:51 am
Well, multiple shockwaves are in as of the latest build, and should be a simple matter of specifying "$Shockwave name:" as the very last shockwave variable in any ship or weapon entry that supports shockwaves. Should behave exactly the same except you can use shockwaves other than "shockwave01".

Of course there's a max of 8 different shockwaves per mission, including the default.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: taylor on July 31, 2005, 06:26:40 am
Quote
Originally posted by MetalDestroyer
i found a little bug in Open GL when playing in Nebula.

Caused by fogging.


@WMCoolmon:  I'm not going to have time to test this any time soon so I'll pass it off to you since it's your code. :p :)

Add MR_NO_FOGGING to the shockwave model_render() flags and see if it helps.  You'll probably want to test it in D3D too just to make sure it doesn't do strange stuff there but I don't think that it will.  This is basically the same problem as the laser nebula render error which only seemed to hurt OGL before.  Just making sure that it's rendered without fog should be enough to fix it.  Non-model shockwaves are rendered without fogging already but POF versions will have fog turned back on before render unless you tell it otherwise.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: WMCoolmon on July 31, 2005, 03:23:59 pm
Added it to CVS...don't know if it'll fix it, but i doubt it'll break it since I already use it in the lab.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: DaBrain on July 31, 2005, 04:54:49 pm
You know... working on tileable frames is really painful....
:(

This is really a crazy ammount of work...

Maybe I can us a batch or something. :doubt:
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: IPAndrews on August 01, 2005, 06:35:27 am
:nervous:

Can someone do a 3D version of this?

(http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/6881/shockwave9cw.jpg)

;7
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: WMCoolmon on August 01, 2005, 11:11:34 pm
Here's an interesting thing to do...

Use the animated shockwave in DaBrain's previous thread in place of the shockwave01.tga :D
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: DaBrain on August 02, 2005, 06:20:16 am
Double animation?

:confused:

You mean the pseudo-non-planar shockwave?


I guess it would look very odd... :wtf:
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Ulala on August 03, 2005, 12:28:54 pm
So, I installed the shockwaves and ran the build linked to in this thread, and my FSO crashes when the mission is about 75% loaded. :sigh:
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: DaBrain on August 03, 2005, 12:32:40 pm
Please try to delete the shockwave files and see if it still crashes.

I hope it's not my fault. ;)
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Ulala on August 03, 2005, 12:53:57 pm
Will do when I get back in town (on a business trip ATM), but it's probably just my FSO that needs reinstallation. There's lots of older SCP junk in there that I never bothered removing. :nervous:
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Cobra on August 03, 2005, 01:14:45 pm
i don't see the new shockwaves, just the crappy ones from :v: with the pixels showing. :shaking:
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: DaBrain on August 03, 2005, 02:09:56 pm
It's important you put the files into the "maps" folder, and not into the effects folder.

Also: The second effect requires the files from the first download. (Plus the fix.)
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Ulala on August 03, 2005, 04:22:27 pm
Rgr. I don't have to enable them in the launcher or anything, do I?
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: DaBrain on August 03, 2005, 04:35:35 pm
All it needs is the -jpgtga option.

Oh and btw, I think it should show you a wip shot of the new shockwave.

It may change a lot though.

(http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/8616/swwip1ls.jpg)

Edit: It's a tile already. ;7
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Fineus on August 03, 2005, 07:23:47 pm
Oh hell yes!!
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Cobra on August 03, 2005, 07:27:06 pm
oh my god that's beautiful!!!

Quote
It's important you put the files into the "maps" folder, and not into the effects folder.

Also: The second effect requires the files from the first download. (Plus the fix.)


figures...
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Anaz on August 03, 2005, 07:59:32 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Kalfireth
Oh hell yes!!


:yes:
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Scuddie on August 03, 2005, 08:26:01 pm
A great improvement, but now it looks like a fireworks demonstration.  It looks VERY gold.  But then again, maybe I need to see it in action.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: BlackDove on August 03, 2005, 08:44:03 pm
MMMMMMMMMHM

MMMMMMMMMHM

That's what I'm talking about.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Cobra on August 03, 2005, 10:29:08 pm
nope, still nothing, and i'm using goob's 20050722 build (his are most stable, so, meh. ;))
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Trivial Psychic on August 03, 2005, 10:44:21 pm
You haven't tried his 07-28 build?
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Charismatic on August 03, 2005, 10:54:34 pm
Excelent job. These are great. Can't discribe how cool this is.

One suggestion. Maby a few different shockwave models, instead of one same shockwave style for each of them. Im not sure if this has been suggested already but its worth saying.

Would be cool.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Scuddie on August 03, 2005, 11:40:26 pm
I agree.  That gold one can be for Anti-matter and nuclear explosions (bombs), the blue one can be from vehicles that have much more energy than weapons (cruisers), the toned down red one for vehicles with heavy weapon capacity (corvettes), and my lovely wonderful beautifully colored shockwave (:D) for vehicles with high  energy AND high weapon capacity (Destroyers).  How's that for variety?  I personally think it's much better than blue for terran, gold for vasudan, and red for shivan.  Thoughts?
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Pnakotus on August 03, 2005, 11:52:12 pm
Thats a pretty arbitrary distinction.  Until we get area-specific explosions (ie, different explosions for powerplants cooking off, magazines exploding, fuel tanks rupuring etc) we're going to have to live with compromise.

T and V technology is largely interchangable by FS2, so why would their explosions be different colours?  Where does the 'stuff' of the explosion come from anyway?  Is it fuel, or armour, or cocaine, or what?
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: MetalDestroyer on August 04, 2005, 01:47:35 am
Ouachhh, i love all of them. Which one to choose ?? O_o
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Getter Robo G on August 04, 2005, 11:35:52 am
Found it, the ring will have to go but I think if you cleaned the sphere effect up it would be nice in fs2... I tried to convert this 2 years ago and the pallete made it look all prismatic so I gave up.

(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b321/Star-Dragon/Exp_16.gif)

If I am right no matter what angle you see it from it will still look like a sphere.

Edit: BTW I need these in YELLOW for RT2, anie style solid but transparent explosions. If you ever seen the show's anti-missile spreads and supression fields you know what I mean.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Taristin on August 04, 2005, 11:42:16 am
Hmm. This gives me an idea..........
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Kazan on August 05, 2005, 10:06:42 am
that's a dangerous think there raa
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: DaBrain on August 05, 2005, 10:47:02 am
Quote
Originally posted by Raa
Hmm. This gives me an idea..........


Yeah, it chould work, but it requires EFF support for glowpoints.

With this feature, I could create this effect in a 3d version, but I really doubt it will look better than the current 3d effect.

The main problem are the hard edges and the texture for the sphere. I fear the sphere won't look very good...
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Ulala on August 05, 2005, 05:40:53 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Raa
Hmm. This gives me an idea..........


No..!! It's too dangerous!!! Don't do it or you could take the whole community down with you!!!!1!!11onetwothree
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Cobra on August 05, 2005, 07:13:47 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Trivial Psychic
You haven't tried his 07-28 build?


i'm using the oen that was suggested by DaB.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: DaBrain on August 05, 2005, 07:14:53 pm
Yeah... that's the 07-28 build

All other build won't display the effect correctly.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Cobra on August 05, 2005, 07:19:01 pm
:ick: figures. i finally get 7-22 to work and now i've got to use 28. :p
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Cobra on August 05, 2005, 10:44:12 pm
i STILL can't see the new shockwaves. :wtf:
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: DaBrain on August 06, 2005, 07:04:28 am
Delete all shockwave files you have, (yeah, everything!) and try the second test release of the new shockwave:

http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,34327.0.html

It works more efficent.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Cobra on August 06, 2005, 11:45:43 am
i wanted it in blue. :p
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Fineus on August 06, 2005, 01:52:37 pm
Then make it in blue. It's not that hard to change the colors.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Scuddie on August 06, 2005, 03:29:55 pm
Actually, it is.  The files are in DDS format, and Photoshop doesn't really like them.  Plus, there's a different DDS file for each frame.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Fineus on August 06, 2005, 03:33:34 pm
Alright then, I take it all back :p
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: DaBrain on August 06, 2005, 03:36:03 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Scuddie
Actually, it is.  The files are in DDS format, and Photoshop doesn't really like them.  Plus, there's a different DDS file for each frame.


Well, there is a DDS plugin, but I'd not recommend to recolor compressed(!) frames and recompress them.
The final product will suffer huge ugly compression artifacts.


No problem, I'll recolor the uncompressed frames when I get the time. ;)
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Scuddie on August 06, 2005, 03:48:07 pm
Do you think you can release the source images in a lossless compression format?  I think that would do well for the community :).
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: DaBrain on August 06, 2005, 05:09:50 pm
That's nearly 2 GB... I think that's no good idea. ;)
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Getter Robo G on August 06, 2005, 07:31:06 pm
Raa's been quiet.... Did I really give him an idea (or was it simply an anurism?)... He he...
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: DaBrain on August 06, 2005, 07:44:19 pm
Raa is pretty good. I think he could do it easily.

Anyway I think this effect won't look good in FS2. The engine would have to support a few more features for this.

Glow effects, EFF glowpoints, and the sphere really needs a pixel shader to do it right.

On the other hand, maybe I'm just lazy and don't want to go through all this complicated stuff. ;7 :rolleyes:
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Kazan on August 10, 2005, 10:40:01 am
you know what 3d shockwaves need: volumetrics
the texture is only applied to the surface of the shockwave model - that's the biggest detriment.  if we could get the texture applied volumetrically - so it as some actually thickness - ie can engulf your ship instead of you just passing through the texture - that would be facking awesome
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Cobra on August 10, 2005, 01:32:52 pm
but i think DaB's too lazy to do that. :p

that would be cool though. ;7
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Kazan on August 10, 2005, 01:37:18 pm
that would require source modifications not artist work
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: StratComm on August 10, 2005, 01:41:43 pm
It would actually require both, because with volumetrics you would need both new textures and a new model.  A proper volumetric shell would look a lot like the stock effect from a distance but look much more convincing from "inside".  However, I don't see anyone jumping up and down to impliment volumetric shockwaves :p
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Kazan on August 10, 2005, 02:16:18 pm
/looks at bobboau
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Turambar on August 10, 2005, 02:40:27 pm
bobbau has more important things to do
especially now that im on an ATI graphics card
(really misses shines)
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Kazan on August 10, 2005, 02:53:13 pm
yes he needs to debug the shinemapping support.. like three years ago
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: DaBrain on August 10, 2005, 03:29:23 pm
Quote
Originally posted by StratComm
It would actually require both, because with volumetrics you would need both new textures and a new model.  A proper volumetric shell would look a lot like the stock effect from a distance but look much more convincing from "inside".  However, I don't see anyone jumping up and down to impliment volumetric shockwaves :p


Maybe not. The current map works perfect for volumetric shockwave. It's pretty ugly, but you can't blame the map for this

Vasudan Admrial gave it a try...
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/Misc/3D_Shockwaves.jpg)

The glow is missing. The engine has to support an volumetric glow, or an postprocess filter, otherwise a volumetric shockwave is no option.
The second problem is the intersection issue... The volumetric shockwave should never "touch" the players ship.



Personally I prefer the flat 3d shockwaves. They allow me to have more influence on the effect. In most view angles, you won't even notice it's flat. Just kill off the other angles and everything will be fine. :)
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Getter Robo G on August 10, 2005, 03:41:46 pm
Would it work in multi-player like that?

Also for Raa: IF you are screwing with the gif I posted can you post a properly colored non-ring one? I liked the effect but the hideous prismatic result after processing drove me nutz.

No one else might use it but I would.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: StratComm on August 10, 2005, 03:54:23 pm
I've never really liked the Praxis shockwave.  Give me a good old spherical wave any day.  Which, by the way, is what you get with a circular shockwave always rendered facing the player.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Kazan on August 10, 2005, 04:09:56 pm
a "real spherical" shockwave would have to be sphereical - textured with sphereical projection and get it's "trail" for trailing energy particles
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Turambar on August 10, 2005, 04:48:09 pm
we should really remove the word "real" from pretty much everything, it should be replaced by ****.  you'd never see a "real" shockwave because it travels at the speed of light, and light is necessary for seeing thigns, so the wave would hit you at the same time the energy would hit you (there wouldnt be any sort of concussion because space is vacuum and theres nothing to compress and expand)

throw real out the window

judge things by how cool they look

for coolness, DaB, i dont like how explosions of ships generate 2 perpendicular sets of shockwaves, i dont think it looks cool, stick with one set, maybe make it bigger, or slower moving, that would look cool
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: DaBrain on August 10, 2005, 04:48:26 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Getter Robo G
Would it work in multi-player like that?

Also for Raa: IF you are screwing with the gif I posted can you post a properly colored non-ring one? I liked the effect but the hideous prismatic result after processing drove me nutz.

No one else might use it but I would.


Damn... the effect breaks the multiplayer... I didn't think about that.

:mad:

@Kazan

Well, ok. Now it's coder-only work I think. ;)
I'm not too fond of spherical explosions anyway. I like the cinematic look. ;)
(Star Wars SE: ANH)
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Scorpius on August 10, 2005, 09:01:50 pm
I always thought the explosions in space would be these white hot orbs of expanding energy clouds (similar to that of a thermonuclear bomb going off)  and the cloud bubble could be explained by bits of vaporized material.  

But I suppose that would be done by volumetric effects.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: MetalDestroyer on August 11, 2005, 01:42:30 am
Quote
Originally posted by Turambar
..., DaB, i dont like how explosions of ships generate 2 perpendicular sets of shockwaves, i dont think it looks cool, stick with one set, maybe make it bigger, or slower moving, that would look cool


Me too, i don't like this kind of shockwave (the perpendicular I mean).
One shockwave is all enought, but just reduce the speed animation to give it a pretty cool effects.

For the Multi, i think your ship.tbl mess up with the one include for the multi.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: DaBrain on August 11, 2005, 06:45:54 am
It's not so easy to find a good timing. The first frames have this big glow effect and I want it to glow right after the explosion.

If I make it too slow the glow comes too late and the animation is stuttery.  159 aren't that much after all. Only relatively much.


I think a single shockwave looks pretty boring, but I can give you a alternative model.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: FireCrack on August 11, 2005, 06:22:57 pm
Shockwaves dont travel at the speed of light...
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Kazan on August 11, 2005, 07:14:35 pm
Quote
Originally posted by FireCrack
Shockwaves dont travel at the speed of light...
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: KARMA on August 15, 2005, 08:04:53 am
as I posted already, I'd love some spheric shockwaves like those of st:genesis, at least for the bigger objects.
I'm playing KOTOR this days, there's a nice effect so that with the power force push (and some grenades too) you see a nice "air distorsion" effect, which would work perfectly imho for the inside of the shockwave
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Turambar on August 15, 2005, 08:37:52 am
somehow i dont think we can do render-to-texture effects like force push until Bobbau gets shaders up and running, and even then, im not sure if it would be supported
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Cobra on August 15, 2005, 05:23:15 pm
Quote
Originally posted by DaBrain
I'm not too fond of spherical explosions anyway. I like the cinematic look. ;)
(Star Wars SE: ANH)


now that is a good shockwave. ;7
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Herra Tohtori on October 21, 2005, 05:39:54 pm
Hmm... I've got an idea but I cannot and I have no time to learn to do it.

I'm sure this will demand a relatively high-end system, though. But.

WHAT IF you'd put *many* of these 2D plane shockwawes together starting from the same point but on different angles? I'm not sure how much memory one single shockwave uses, but it would be a hell of a cool thing to see. Plus, the shokwave art would not have to be that big and colourful then...

Like, one shockwave per 5 degrees? That should definitely be enough to give it a spherical look, especially from a bit of a distance. Plus, if you like the "cinematic" look better than realistic, you could add a larger and more visible shockwave on just one plane.

This 5 degrees gap would use 72 shockwaves per explosion... :wtf:  Which is a *bit* much. But I don't really know how much resources a single shockwave uses when it is rendered in-game. Also, if the amount here is too great you could increase the gap anle to, say, 10 degrees, which would "only" require 36 planar shockwaves to create a pseudo-spherical shockwave.

Please tell me whether this can even be done - well, it obviously can be done, but is it reasonable thing to do, will it demand too much memory/processing time?  ... And another idea; why not make a ship's subsystems explode separately, ora, or at long ships have two or three hull shockwave startpoints, so that the resulting shockwave is roughly shaped along the ship? I guess it'd be safer to stay with fewer shockwaves for that idea, though...

And one final question; can these explosions be used on The Babylon Project? Because they'll not be much of use for me otherwise... Do they require some original FS2 files or do they only work with original FS2 ships or something?

I also noticed that this particular conversation had been abandoned for a *bit* of time, hope I can reactivate it - or please tell me where these guys continued the converstion.

Thank you.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: StratComm on October 21, 2005, 05:49:05 pm
The problem is that doesn't work well when you're not coplaner to any of the major axes (say, if you were looking at it from an isometric perspective, more or less) as you'll get gaps in coverage but will see the segments.  It would be better to have concentric shells, each mapped with a different texture (don't get your hopes up, that'd be a total resource hog) than to try to fake it with planer waves.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Herra Tohtori on October 21, 2005, 06:02:09 pm
Quote
Originally posted by FireCrack
Shockwaves dont travel at the speed of light...



Mmmh, this is where I must say something now!

It actually is, and must be, possible for a shockwave to travel at the speed of light. Otherwise shockwaves would have a bit of a hard time to travel through the vacuum of the space havin about 3 to one proton per cubic metre...

However, in gas clouds a shockwave can be seen if there occurs, for example, a supernova nearby. The electromagnetic radiation sphere emitted by the explosion heats up gas when it hits it, resulting with visible glow emitted by the gas. And, the radiation sphere proceeds through the gas cloud at c, the speed of light.

Unfortunately this information is not very useful for the effects designer. A shockwave has two stages; the mentioned growing spherical pulse of electromagnetic radiation, and mechanical shockwave. What we see in FS2 has two explanations: Either it does not happen in space, or the damaged ships leak enough gas around them to make the shockwave visible, and what is more, affect ships inside the gas cloud.

It would not be very useful to have a shockwave travelling at the speed of light - unless a single occasion.

On nebulas there is plenty of gas everywhere (well, actually there wouldn't be, but FS2 is'nt so physically accurate anyways). So, the electromagnetic pulse generated by exploding ship could possibly generate a flashlight phenomena on the nebula; it would for a brief moment, a fraction of a second, make the gas around it emit for range of few dozens of kilometres... I also think that the explosions we see are way too dim, if you think about it physically.

You should first see a *bright* flash of light when the reactor goes off-line permanently and perhaps the reactor fuel (especially anti-matter) would be quickly consumed in a reaction that would release a significant amount of energy.

After that, you coud see the effect of the mechanical shockwave at surrounding gas, and in the middle of the explosion you might see some particles of debris, but most of the debris would actually fly away from the explosion site, possibly knocking off some fighters or even cap ships.

But it's still a great game. Who cares if the explosions look like traditional bombs, when they practically CAN'T look like that?

... I'm sorry, what happened? Um... I see my evil side took over there writing that... reading too much physics is not alwaysgood, I can see...
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Herra Tohtori on October 21, 2005, 06:05:29 pm
Quote
Originally posted by StratComm
The problem is that doesn't work well when you're not coplaner to any of the major axes (say, if you were looking at it from an isometric perspective, more or less) as you'll get gaps in coverage but will see the segments.  It would be better to have concentric shells, each mapped with a different texture (don't get your hopes up, that'd be a total resource hog) than to try to fake it with planer waves.


That's what I actually thought too... making it so dense that no gaps would be visible would be pointless as it would probably require a Cray XT3 ore equivalent to run smoothly... You would have to make three sets of these shockwaves: one rotated around x, one around z and one around y-axis... Which would raise the amount of shockwaves in one explosion to at least 3x36=108, and it probably still wouldn't look good...

Besides, the planar shockwaves are cool too, as demonstrated here.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: StratComm on October 21, 2005, 07:45:57 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Herra Tohtori



Mmmh, this is where I must say something now!

It actually is, and must be, possible for a shockwave to travel at the speed of light. Otherwise shockwaves would have a bit of a hard time to travel through the vacuum of the space havin about 3 to one proton per cubic metre...

However, in gas clouds a shockwave can be seen if there occurs, for example, a supernova nearby. The electromagnetic radiation sphere emitted by the explosion heats up gas when it hits it, resulting with visible glow emitted by the gas. And, the radiation sphere proceeds through the gas cloud at c, the speed of light.

Unfortunately this information is not very useful for the effects designer. A shockwave has two stages; the mentioned growing spherical pulse of electromagnetic radiation, and mechanical shockwave. What we see in FS2 has two explanations: Either it does not happen in space, or the damaged ships leak enough gas around them to make the shockwave visible, and what is more, affect ships inside the gas cloud.

It would not be very useful to have a shockwave travelling at the speed of light - unless a single occasion.

On nebulas there is plenty of gas everywhere (well, actually there wouldn't be, but FS2 is'nt so physically accurate anyways). So, the electromagnetic pulse generated by exploding ship could possibly generate a flashlight phenomena on the nebula; it would for a brief moment, a fraction of a second, make the gas around it emit for range of few dozens of kilometres... I also think that the explosions we see are way too dim, if you think about it physically.

You should first see a *bright* flash of light when the reactor goes off-line permanently and perhaps the reactor fuel (especially anti-matter) would be quickly consumed in a reaction that would release a significant amount of energy.

After that, you coud see the effect of the mechanical shockwave at surrounding gas, and in the middle of the explosion you might see some particles of debris, but most of the debris would actually fly away from the explosion site, possibly knocking off some fighters or even cap ships.

But it's still a great game. Who cares if the explosions look like traditional bombs, when they practically CAN'T look like that?

... I'm sorry, what happened? Um... I see my evil side took over there writing that... reading too much physics is not alwaysgood, I can see...


Actually, by definition shockwaves cannot propogate through a vaccuum, if you want to get literal with it.  There'd be no shock, as there's no medium to move.  What can happen is that a wave of high-energy matter can expand rapidly enough to form a shell of outward-moving particles, which in turn create the "shockwave" effect we're so used to seeing as it is their collisions with an object that would effect it.  Given that the surface of the shockwave is particulate matter, and not pure energy, it would by definition not be able to travel at the speed of light.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: CaptJosh on October 21, 2005, 10:24:37 pm
The part of the explosion that does move at cee has already passed through you or been absorbed by your radiation shielding by the time the debris from the explosion hits you.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Herra Tohtori on October 22, 2005, 11:17:06 am
Quote
Originally posted by StratComm


Actually, by definition shockwaves cannot propogate through a vaccuum, if you want to get literal with it.  There'd be no shock, as there's no medium to move.  What can happen is that a wave of high-energy matter can expand rapidly enough to form a shell of outward-moving particles, which in turn create the "shockwave" effect we're so used to seeing as it is their collisions with an object that would effect it.  Given that the surface of the shockwave is particulate matter, and not pure energy, it would by definition not be able to travel at the speed of light.


That depends on what do you want to call a shockwave.

Practically, in interstellar nebulaes there simply are not enough matter to convey mechanical energy via wave movemet. Still we can see shockwaves created by supernovae. These larg-scale shockwaves are nothing more but simply gas emitting the energy of electromagnetic pulse from the supernova (and later, of course, particle radiation including expanding gas, protons, neutrons, electrons, positrons, helium4 nuclei and such staff). The emitting zone moves outwards from the explosion, creating a shockwave-like effect.

However, both this c-speed part and slower particles pack quite a punch. Actually this latter phenomenon is strong enough to create more dense concentrations of gas in the previously homogenous gas cloud. These concentrations can then form whole new stars, so this phenomenon is really a great-scale one. The initial electromagnetic radiation is responsible of the initial brightness of the supernovae, and it fades away rather fast, while the later matter-based slower "shockwaves" last longer.

On FS2 or any other space simulation, this would only be useful in nebula missions. The emitting energy from the explosion would make the surrounding nebula glow for a brief moment, then the glow would move away at c. That's what I meant with a "flashlight-effect".


Quote
Originally posted by CaptJosh
The part of the explosion that does move at cee has already passed through you or been absorbed by your radiation shielding by the time the debris from the explosion hits you.


Yes, but the part moving at can last a bit of time, and you'd still see the fotons emitted by surrounding gas, creating a short-timed overall (or ambient) lighting boost. You would certainly have no time to see the radiation zone, moving at c, but you could see it's consequences. It would increase the temperature of the gas around it, and hot gas would start to emit fotons... creating a visible glow, for a brief moment of time.

Supernova can overcome it's mother galaxy in brightness during first few days. While the ship's energy source cannot be nearly as energetic, it should still create a visible glow on surrounding gas in nebula for some time. If there is no nebula in the mission, there would not be this glow. Simple.

Then come the particles (electrons, positrons, helium4 nuclei, neutrons, protons and stuff like that) and then comes the debris aka pieces of molecular matter hitting you.

Depending of the power source of the ship, it would certainly create different type of explosions. For example, fusion reactors would actually have severe problems trying to explode. The density needed for a hydrogen bomb to detonate can only be achieved by putting fusion materia (primarily tritium and deuterium) inside a fission bomb, which compresses the hydrogen enough so that it can fuse into helium and release energy. Reactor technology is somewhat different; the fusion must actively be fed to make it continue. Fission reactor could actually reach critical mass more easily, but there are few space ships using this primitive technology, eh?

Anti-matter and subspace/hyperspace energy sources create explosions more like these described. Anti-matter fuel must be kept away from matter actively. If this system suffers damage and becomes unable to do this, the resulting energy burst has the energy of 2mc^2, where m is the mass of anti-matter released.

Even small amounts of anti-matter annihilated with matter release *significant* amounts of energy, as you probably know... This would be in the form of gamma radiation, which could create a glow effect very much like mentioned before. Then the glow would die away, revealing some debris of the ship. Subspace/hyperspace tap energy sources could behave similarly; when the tapping mechanism becomes damaged, it could create a local energy overflow, released in explosion.

Btw, here (http://images.google.com/images?hl=fi&hs=eV0&client=opera&rls=fi&q=shockwave%20from%20a%20supernova&spell=1&sa=N&tab=wi) are some images of shockwaves created by radiation zone travelling through space and making the gas glow. As I said, the initial superior brightness of the supernova becomes from the electromagnetic radiation making nearby gas glow, while the later particle radiation travels slower and creates a much similar phenomenon in a smaller scale, and the slowest and latest, but not least, comes the high-speed gas colliding other gas molecules and creating the longest visible effects in space.

All these are results of the explosion, but I don't know if you like to call them all "shockwaves". They can all cause damage to your ship... but practically none of these would even be seen as shockwaves we see on FS2. Alla of them would have such speed that in small range such explosion would only produce the bright glow, and parctically a *very* small time interval would be between that and gas and other particles hitting you.

The only way for such shock waves to be seen in FS2 would be wighting on an athmosphere. But as I said, I don't really care of that while I'm playing FS2 - the flight model is not newtonean and thus has no resemblance to real life physics, so why would the rest of the game have?;7

It's more important that it looks good and is fun to play in this occasion.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: CaptJosh on October 22, 2005, 01:32:06 pm
Looking at those images I can't help but think that if you were close enough to have seen the initial explosion, you wouldn't be around to talk about it anymore.  As for may comment about the part of an explosion traveling at the speed of light, I somehow forgot about the light itself. Dunno how.
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: Herra Tohtori on October 22, 2005, 08:43:56 pm
Quote
Originally posted by CaptJosh
Looking at those images I can't help but think that if you were close enough to have seen the initial explosion, you wouldn't be around to talk about it anymore.


Yeah... They managed to describe it almost right in the finale of the original FS2 campaign - except that you would not notice that increasing humming voice, because the radiation from the star would certainly not incrase steadily during dozens of seconds AFAIK. It would just be a single flash ripping you into atoms along with your fighter.

But yeah, first comes the radiation, or light if we want to say so, but visible light is only one part of it. Much more energy is delivered via röntgen (x-ray) and gamma rays.

But could it even be possible to make the surrounding nebula "glow" after an explosion? Only method of doing this is changing the ambient lighting briefly, but can it be changed during mission?

That would be cool, a sudden white flash in the nebula, which would then fade away to normal lighting durin 5~10 seconds, depending on the size of the explosion... Hmm, this might be worth a thought, eh? It would give the explosion a slightly more "real" taste... first you'd see a bright flash of light, then (if you were close enough) you'd "feel" the matter hitting your craft damaging it.

Btw, the radiation itself ought be enough to damage your hull if you were close enough to explosion's centre. Your craft could literally melt, or even better be vaporized...
Title: OMG I got it working!!! SUPER-3d-SHOCKWAVES!
Post by: CaptJosh on October 22, 2005, 11:23:33 pm
Depending on the distance and radiation shielding, the pilot might be killed while leaving the craft intact. Though with energy shields, this isn't as much a problem as it might be.