Author Topic: Am I a horrible person?  (Read 15127 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Mikes

  • 29
Re: Am I a horrible person?
Yes, yes you are a horrible person.

He is!!! :)

 

Offline Buckshee Rounds

  • 29
  • Lord Defecator
Re: Am I a horrible person?
I understand the GTVA's motivations, especially considering their whole reason for still existing is built around the fear of some (very real) cosmic bogeymen, but I feel they jumped the gun with this war, no matter how much the situation was FUBAR'd following the 14th's little inter-universal jaunt.

Technically speaking it was the Renjian that jumped the gun by firing at the 14th instead of surrendering like good little Buntu. :)


 

Offline crizza

  • 210
Re: Am I a horrible person?
But it was not a buntu ship...it was from third fleet...

 
Re: Am I a horrible person?
Technically speaking it was the Renjian that jumped the gun by firing at the 14th instead of surrendering like good little Buntu. :)

After the Orestes declared Hostile Intent. And after the UEF found GTVA probes filled with ELINT gear. It was pretty obvious what they were planning from the start.

 

Offline Droid803

  • Trusted poster of legit stuff
  • 213
  • /人 ◕ ‿‿ ◕ 人\ Do you want to be a Magical Girl?
    • Skype
    • Steam
Re: Am I a horrible person?
The Renjian clearly didn't think things through. HURF DURF I ATTACK A FLEET BY MYSELF!!!!!!!!1!!!11!one WHAT COULD GO WRONG!!!?!/!/!//1/??/!/one1?/questionmark
(´・ω・`)
=============================================================

 

Offline Snail

  • SC 5
  • 214
  • Posts: ☂
Re: Am I a horrible person?
The Renjian clearly didn't think things through. HURF DURF I ATTACK A FLEET BY MYSELF!!!!!!!!1!!!11!one WHAT COULD GO WRONG!!!?!/!/!//1/??/!/one1?/questionmark
Captain thought they were about as heavily armed as his own ship, he was going to hold out until the reinforcements eventually arrived.

 

Offline Droid803

  • Trusted poster of legit stuff
  • 213
  • /人 ◕ ‿‿ ◕ 人\ Do you want to be a Magical Girl?
    • Skype
    • Steam
Re: Am I a horrible person?
A Karuna charging into a fleet of other Karunas doesn't last very long either...
It an hero'd.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2011, 04:54:34 pm by Droid803 »
(´・ω・`)
=============================================================

 

Offline Snail

  • SC 5
  • 214
  • Posts: ☂
Re: Am I a horrible person?
Yeah but he would've lasted a couple minutes, long enough for reinforcements (4 more frigates, apparently) to arrive.

 
Re: Am I a horrible person?
Better question - what the hell was the Renjian actually supposed to do? She just jumped, she wasn't exactly in a position to stall for time, and to top it off, Jovian Pride and all that (the Renjian was third fleet, right?)

Yes, all things considered, it wasn't wise charge a GTVA battlegroup, but they had no way of knowing what they were up against. I see no other alternatives that her captain would have entertained.

 

Offline General Battuta

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 214
  • i wonder when my postcount will exceed my iq
Re: Am I a horrible person?
Probably figured the GTVA ships had a bunch of blob turrets and was all :smug:

 

Offline Droid803

  • Trusted poster of legit stuff
  • 213
  • /人 ◕ ‿‿ ◕ 人\ Do you want to be a Magical Girl?
    • Skype
    • Steam
Re: Am I a horrible person?
I donno, I mean, I see five unknown destroyers (I don't know that two of them are logistics ships and the one is a sleeper ship! I just see five 2km+ ships), a bunch of corvettes and cruisers.

Really? A few minutes?

Probably figured the GTVA ships had a bunch of blob turrets and was all :smug:

Well, ok, if they only had blobs XD
(´・ω・`)
=============================================================

 

Offline crizza

  • 210
Re: Am I a horrible person?
Well, the standard terran turret is not that good at intercepting torpedos and other stuff...
Presuming the Orestes etc had great war era weapons equiped...

 

Offline -Norbert-

  • 211
Re: Am I a horrible person?
Also, the GTVA ships were pretty badly banged up, featuring a few holes from their breakthrough.

 

Offline Nohiki

  • 28
  • Graf von Kaffeetrinken
    • Minecraft
    • Skype
    • Steam
Re: Am I a horrible person?
Yeah, because asking a sovereign state to give up its independence is such a good move.

Well, in the FreeSpace universe, it always worked like this. The majority of terrans and vasudans decided for GTVA and declared it the supreme power in the explored space and enforce it as such. I think it's called democracy or something like that. If they don't want the GTVA, they should say so in the next elections.
:::ALSO PROUD VASUDAN RIGHTS SUPPORTER:::

 

Offline General Battuta

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 214
  • i wonder when my postcount will exceed my iq
Re: Am I a horrible person?
Yeah, because asking a sovereign state to give up its independence is such a good move.

Well, in the FreeSpace universe, it always worked like this. The majority of terrans and vasudans decided for GTVA and declared it the supreme power in the explored space and enforce it as such. I think it's called democracy or something like that. If they don't want the GTVA, they should say so in the next elections.

I don't think that makes sense. If the citizens of Canada voted to be ruled by the Canadian government in a democratic election, how would that make the Canadian government the supreme power of Mexico?

ED: And given that Sol probably had more Terrans in it than the rest of the GTVA during Reconstruction, why doesn't their majority rule hold by that reasoning?

 

Offline Bri_Dog

  • 28
Re: Am I a horrible person?
Waging a war of conquest against your species' homeworld is a monstrous thing.

At least that's what I was thinking while playing WiH.
Sig

 

Offline Qent

  • 29
Re: Am I a horrible person?
It's a war of desperation against the most imminent threat to all humanity: Ubuntu.

 
Re: Am I a horrible person?
The Renjian clearly didn't think things through. HURF DURF I ATTACK A FLEET BY MYSELF!!!!!!!!1!!!11!one WHAT COULD GO WRONG!!!?!/!/!//1/??/!/one1?/questionmark

This always baffled me as well. At the very least, the UEF should have had ships already at the node when the 14th jumped in; they saw the probes, knew they got in-system somehow, and really, there's nothing to suggest whether or not the UEF could have detected that the DS-Sol node was opened again, but considering that finding nodes HAS to be a prerequisite to using them in the first place (and I would find it difficult to believe that scientists in Sol weren't also working towards the goal of reopening the node and thus would have a presence on the site, most likely in the form of science cruisers or possibly even an installation)...well, I wondered why the UEF didn't scout through the node themselves.

They should have known someone was coming through, and in the face of uncertainty, the Renjian shoudl have been stationed there already. She could have then quickly escaped with the news of an invasion force (which, given the state of the 14th at the time, would have given the UEF forces enough time to either finish the 14th off or chase them out and blockade the node) instead of being forced of die because her jump drives were recharging.

Slightly more on-topic: OP, you are not a horrible person. I find that I identify with both groups. The GTVA isn't wrong when you see their viewpoint in the context of what they've been through. Really, the same could be said for the UEF.

 

Offline General Battuta

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 214
  • i wonder when my postcount will exceed my iq
Re: Am I a horrible person?
My impression is that the Renjian wasn't on station for reasons that might well seem shockingly naive in retrospect: the Elders were well aware that some form of reunion was imminent, but they were all convinced it would be peaceful. It's an open question whether they'd actually tracked the node down at that point (the lack of science ships or a waiting delegation suggests otherwise - nodes in BP are not always very predictable in their motions, especially after 50 years of disconnection), but when the Renjian did arrive on the scene, it did so in the following context:

Quote
For the UEF’s part, the arrival of the 14th was not unexpected. The Elders had greeted the sighting of GTVA probes with open arms, and in spite of a Fedayeen (the paramilitary black ops unit reporting directly to the Elders, often - and arguably correctly - labeled 'state sponsored terrorists' by the GTVA) report suggesting that the probes were stuffed with sophisticated ELINT gear, prepared no military contingencies for the GTVA’s arrival. The widespread assumption was that Earth’s lost brethren had achieved a degree of peace and enlightenment similar to that which pervaded Sol (barring certain elements of the Kuiper periphery and the military). The coexistence of Terran and Vasudan technological elements in the probes scanned by the Fedayeen was cited as evidence for this view.

Only when the newcomers failed to arrive in a timely manner did the Fleet Admirals (Calder, Byrne, and Netreba) convince the Council of Elders to prepare a limited military response. Admiral Calder also initiated a ‘training exercise’ for the Third Fleet, loading several frigate divisions with live ammunition and practicing quick-response jumps to various points in the system. When the 14th finally did arrive, the Renjian responded to reports of a massive subspace transit with conflicting orders. The Elders’ standing request was that the visitors be escorted directly to Earth. Admiral Calder privately requested that Captain Leicester hold the newcomers at the node as a measure of caution.

When it became apparent that the newcomers had hostile intentions, Captain Leicester reacted rashly. Believing the GTVA warships comparably armed to his own Karuna, Leicester engaged the Orestes while calling for the 3rd Fleet to respond. He promptly found his ship gutted by the Orestes’ plasma beams – the first occurrence of a tactical nightmare that would plague the UEF for the rest of the war.

But as for the question of what else the Renjian could have done, Captain Leicester reacted rashly. He believed he could survive the engagement until the rest of Third Fleet arrived to seize the node. He was very, very wrong, and he didn't survive long enough for relief to arrive. But if Third Fleet had in fact deployed in force while the 14th was still in chaos, they might have taken the node. The four frigates Calder deployed were basically routed in a panic, and the attackers' failure to press their advantage only contributed to the confusion, since it gave still-hopeful elements of the Council of Elders a reason to argue that the whole thing was some sort of colossal misunderstanding.

From a clear vantage point with only a few elements to think of it's easy for us to have better ideas. But for Captain Leicester, scrambled to the location of the new node to respond to reports of a massive subspace transit, 'don't give up the node' and 'keep them tied down here, instead of tied down bombing Earth' were probably first on his mind.

The real pressing question in my mind is this: given that beam damage is applied per-frame, and given that Karunas cause awful lag, how could four Karunas fail to win the day?

 

Offline -Norbert-

  • 211
Re: Am I a horrible person?
Because it happened off-mission and thus the textures didn't have to be loaded, thus no lag.