[Vrets]

Who is rubber-stamping these games for release? Somebody's racist and/or incredibly tired intern?

It doesn't even sound like this game got to the "release" part.  If being Greenlit just depends on getting a certain number of votes, that step is probably an automated process at this point.  Stories like this definitely show that it'd behoove Valve for it to NOT be an automated process, that's for sure.

VALVe should definitely take an active hand in filtering content for quality, if for no other reason than to protect the brand of their platform. It's good business sense, all moral arguments aside.

I think it's because Valve gets a cut of whatever is sold and more games = more purchases = more money for Valve. At least they don't pocket the $100 fee for getting a game on Greenlight.

I think that, in order to maintain a certain level of profitably, VALVe has ignored signs that their platform's scale is outgrowing the staff and infrastructure that they are willing to pay to support that platform.

It's "tolerating-unacceptable-levels-of-unsupportable-features-with-predictable-consequences" levels of mild evil, but not "directly-permit-this-kind-of-content-for-the-sake-of-profit" levels of evil.

[666maslo666]

Those "acts of defiance" are the reason why we can't all get along, you know? They're never a good thing.

I do not believe it is possible to have a free society and at the same time to not have people insult muslims, or christians, or anyone else. Humanity is just too big and diverse for everyone to be curteous all the time. And coupled with the fact that there are some muslims who are murderous savages, certain level of ambient insulting activity against islam is guaranteed, I would say even justified.

The only way to solve this issue is not by ceasing to insult muslims, it is by islam becoming desensitised to insults. The same thing which happened to christianity over the centuries.

We will never all get along with no insults but we should all get along with no actual violence.

[Phantom Hoover]

My position on this is the same as last time: drawing offensive pictures of Mohammed for the sole purpose of pissing off Muslims is crass and self-indulgent. But there are plenty of entirely reasonable motives for depicting a significant historical figure who has significant social relevance today, and I have complete contempt for the idea that anyone should be expected to self-censor if some sect arbitrarily decides to take offence at it. Mohammed is part of the common history of humanity and so is the right to draw him.

[rance]

I think your average Islamist is just as desensitized to insults as the average Christian. After all they've been around for roughly the same amount of time and are both considered to be a fully fledged religions. Neither religion strongly follows doctrine in everyday life that promotes violent reactions to insults because if they did, the religion would quickly lose popularity, support and would be unable to integrate into a law abiding society. Muslims and Christians wouldn't be able to integrate into society if they all burnt images or Muhammad or attacked people who eat meat on Friday; it is only the extremists (and this applies to all regions and faiths) that react this violently to this. I believe it's not Islam or people's interaction with it that has to change, it's extremism on a grander scale.

Since this is OT can we go back to talking about how Valve sucks? I'll get you started 'Half life 3'.

[karajorma]

This does actually make me wonder what would be the response to a "Draw Jesus as not actually being white" Day would be. I suspect we'd get quite an interesting backlash to it.

[Scourge of Ages]

This does actually make me wonder what would be the response to a "Draw Jesus as not actually being white" Day would be. I suspect we'd get quite an interesting backlash to it.

I'd like to think people in general would be ok with it. Surely you'll get a few freaks that would, ya know, freak out like they do about everything, but I'd imagine that it'd be mostly fine. There's no rule anywhere that you can't draw Jesus, like there is with Muhammad. It'd sure be interesting to see, though.

[Phantom Hoover]

This does actually make me wonder what would be the response to a "Draw Jesus as not actually being white" Day would be. I suspect we'd get quite an interesting backlash to it.

I think a lot of people on this forum would be completely in favour and would side against the inevitable fundamentalist outrage, so I'm not sure how it's meant to illustrate any hypocrisy from that quarter.

[Aesaar]

My position on this is the same as last time: drawing offensive pictures of Mohammed for the sole purpose of pissing off Muslims is crass and self-indulgent. But there are plenty of entirely reasonable motives for depicting a significant historical figure who has significant social relevance today, and I have complete contempt for the idea that anyone should be expected to self-censor if some sect arbitrarily decides to take offence at it. Mohammed is part of the common history of humanity and so is the right to draw him.

  I completely agree with this.

[Mongoose]

This does actually make me wonder what would be the response to a "Draw Jesus as not actually being white" Day would be. I suspect we'd get quite an interesting backlash to it.

There's already a crap-load of artwork out there depicting Jesus as not white, soooo...

[karajorma]

Yeah, but it's always been my contention that it's the actually "Let's have a day to piss off X" rather than the actual act which is the problem. Muhammad is actually depicted in several places throughout the muslim world. Hell, in Iran you can buy his picture on a postcard if you want cause Shia Islam is actually much more tolerant of depictions of Muhammad. Do you think no one in Iran protested against Draw Muhammad Day?

My point is that if a bunch of non-christians suddenly started drawing Jesus, you'd get a very interesting reaction from the hardcore believers.

[Spoon]

Something Something Valve.

This does actually make me wonder what would be the response to a "Draw Jesus as not actually being white" Day would be. I suspect we'd get quite an interesting backlash to it.

There's already a crap-load of artwork out there depicting Jesus as not white, soooo...

There's also a crap-load of artwork with Jesus riding raptors and I dont know what. Christians aren't generally as ass backwards as Muslims when it comes to this subject. There's hasn't been any shooting of journalists while they are at work for drawing Jesus in newspapers recently for example. Even the more fundamentalist (western) Christian believers are relatively mild compared to the Muslim ones. Cults like the westboro church generally just hangs outside with dumb signs and annoy people that passby.

My point is that if a bunch of non-christians suddenly started drawing Jesus, you'd get a very interesting reaction from the hardcore believers.

Your point has already been proven false on multiple occasions.

[NGTM-1R]

My point is that if a bunch of non-christians suddenly started drawing Jesus, you'd get a very interesting reaction from the hardcore believers.

After the Pissing On Christ, I really don't think you can sustain the idea that you'll get the kind of reaction you do from certain Muslim sects to Muhammad anything.

[jr2]

Honestly, they can't really claim to be true hard core believers if they think Jesus was.. white??

Also, I think Spoon was referring to Raptor Jesus.  Not going to post the image in case it offends someone - although, ironically, I find it slightly offensive, as it seems to me to be a way of communicating contempt of Christianity -- however, I'm not going to flip out about it, or hide from it, people are free to express their opinions, and I'm not going to help win anyone over by being condescending about it.

One person I know that has a bumper sticker of Raptor Jesus did say that i wasn't an a-hole like other Christians -- however, I have to wonder if that stereotype isn't borne out of the abrasive Christians being overly loud and attention gathering.  (Westboro anyone?)

[666maslo666]

Yeah, but it's always been my contention that it's the actually "Let's have a day to piss off X" rather than the actual act which is the problem.

That day exists as a consequence of multiple violent incidents which targeted people insulting Muhammad. Similar violence does not occur due to people insulting Jesus, but if it did, then yes you will probably see a "Let's have a day to piss off Christians" day, too. And it would be a justified reaction, too.

[karajorma]

As everyone seems to have missed it, I'll repeat what I said about images of Muhammad being all over Iran.

[Phantom Hoover]

O...K, but I don't think anyone's suggested that all Muslims are going around killing people for drawing Mohammed.

[NGTM-1R]

As everyone seems to have missed it, I'll repeat what I said about images of Muhammad being all over Iran.

No one missed it. It simply wasn't relevant to your central assertions or anyone else's. Cool story, bro; back to the point.

[karajorma]

Except it was. People act like this whole thing is simply "If you draw Muhammad, muslims get cross." It's nowhere remotely close to that.

But nevermind, I don't think it's worth continuing to argue the point.

[TrashMan]

Honestly, they can't really claim to be true hard core believers if they think Jesus was.. white??

Also, I think Spoon was referring to Raptor Jesus.  Not going to post the image in case it offends someone - although, ironically, I find it slightly offensive, as it seems to me to be a way of communicating contempt of Christianity -- however, I'm not going to flip out about it, or hide from it, people are free to express their opinions, and I'm not going to help win anyone over by being condescending about it.

One person I know that has a bumper sticker of Raptor Jesus did say that i wasn't an a-hole like other Christians -- however, I have to wonder if that stereotype isn't borne out of the abrasive Christians being overly loud and attention gathering.  (Westboro anyone?)

Since when is Raptor Jesus problematic?

[jr2]

It exists only as a mockery of Divinity incarnate, without Jesus Christ of Nazareth you would not have the  said Raptor Jesus.

Yes?

I mean... What's the point? Although I'm sure some just mean it as a funny joke. I can understand that.

Perhaps my perception is colored by my experience, I can't say for sure.