[Luis Dias]

It's harder to give a "proper acting" when you have a helmet hiding your subtle eye movements. But the character arc is there if you pay attention. Vader comes from finding his son is alive and just blew the Death Star, then proceeds to find him and try to make an ally out of him against the Emperor. Right here, he's already trying to screw over Palpatine (the emperor orders Vader to kill him, Vader convinces him he would be a "great asset" to the Dark Force). In retrospect we get that Vader was trying to ally with Luke to destroy the Emperor and rule the galaxy, while Palpatine was trying to arrange a fight between those two and he would stay with whomever would win.

In ESB, Vader is pursuing Luke like a madman. He sacrifices Star Destroyers within an asteroid field just to get his friends to build a trap for Luke. He confides his fatherhood. But at that last moment, before Luke escapes, you do see a psychological back and forth between them. There's a connection between them. That builds Vader's character much further than anything done in ANH. When Luke escapes, he manages to not choke anyone, or being angry. He just appears sad to see his son going away. And you get that despite his helmet. I think that's actually not bad acting.

In RoTJ we see the conflict within Vader. When Luke surrenders to him and talks to him, you do see him wrestling with himself. Again, all within the helmet. "It is too late for me", that's quite the sentence he gives, quite the hint that he is not just this evil beast. Then he gets his feet on the ground again and tells him the emperor will show him the true meaning of the force. Luke tells then that Ben was right after all, his father is dead. And Vader just wrestles again, silently, after he's gone up. That's character development.

While fighting Luke, Vader seems more in control with himself, but that's just because the emperor is looking. Yes, it only comes to the surface and to the action right at the last minute, but the conflict was there and was acted. It showed. If you didn't see it, I recommend you watch the movies again.

[The E]

Yeah, David Prowse and James Earl Jones, assisted by the Directors and DoPs, were able to put a lot of things into Vader. They managed to convey a lot just through motion, gestures, and lighting changes, and that's a bit of an achievement.

[Akalabeth Angel]

A few quick points here and there regarding most comments after my last one.

Akalaabeth's deus ex machina is not a correct example. The desperate situation was to destroy the Starkiller base and the map that allowed Rey to find Luke had nothing to do with that. It was structured as an epilogue, not as a deus ex machina. Insufficiently explained why R2 would turn on at that point? Perhaps. Still more than 14 parsecs away from any reasonable interpretation of what "deus ex machina" means. The crawling paragraphs were on how Leia was trying to find Luke and little BB droid had the last parts of the map to do so.

#1 "Desperate" is not a requirement for Deus Ex Machina. Your understanding of the definition is wrong.
#2 Even if desperate were a requirement, The Star Wars universe disagrees in the opening title crawl:

General Leia Organa leads a brave RESISTANCE.. She is desperate to find her brother Luke

Now if you want to disagree with something written in plain english and 10 feet high on a theatre screen go ahead, but you'd be wrong.

My guesstimate is that R2 was "off" until Starkiller was destroyed in order to smooth out the script. First, destroy Starkiller, then find Luke. Easier on the audience.

Smooth out the script? You mean introducing a contrived plot point out of nowhere is meant to smooth out the script?
R2D2's turning on wasn't even foreshadowed, one of the most basic devices of literature and movie making. C3PO says he would turn on when Luke was near. That just was just a red herring in a disjointed story.  He literally turns on for no reason present in the story, this is the very definition of deus ex machina, and event that comes out of no where.

The story as presented in the crawl and in the first half of the movie is finding Luke. This problem, is solved not by any of the characters in the movie but by a trashcan coming to life.

[Mars]

. . .

For the record, you actually convinced me to watch the movies again. Some of the stuff your describing I guess I didn't have the attention for.

[MP-Ryan]

Fun fact:  My wife hasn't actually seen TFA, nor did I say anywhere that she had.  Points deducted for reading comprehension failures.

@karajorma:

What you and I consider to be plot holes in this film obviously differ.  Pretty much all the plot holes I readily come up with are only plot holes in the context of the SW universe, and not the plot of the film.

-Starkiller base origins? Only relevant if you consider the OT.
-Republic and its fleet?  Ditto.
-Distinction between Rebels vs Republic vs Resistance? Yup, that too.
-Origin of the First Order? I see a continuing theme...

I challenge anyone here to identify a plot hole that exists solely within the context of the TFA script.  Again, I've only seen it twice, but none spring to mind.  The entire basis for criticism of the plot derives from the previous films.  While I would have also preferred they clear some of those items up, it really isn't that important to the story TFA is telling - as Luis pointed out.

Disney could have made a direct-continuation-30-years-later-that-neatly-explains-all-the-backstory.  They didn't.  That's an artistic choice, and considering the way Han was used I think it was actually likely the appropriate one; TFA is very clearly the first of a trilogy about new characters in a universe that is substantially different from the one we left at the end of ROTJ, and filling in all those blanks in TFA wasn't necessary, or likely even desirable, in the context of its story.  Rey and Finn are surrogates for a new generation of fans unfamiliar with the previous films; Han and crew were for the rest of us.

EDIT:

Deus ex machina is literally "god in the machine," or a supernatural or deific solution that occurs as a matter of happenstance in the mechanics of the world.  "The Force" and all its miraculous qualities are quite LITERALLY the definition of this concept, to the point that Star Wars is laced with deus ex machina pieces from start to finish.  If you're going to criticize these elements in the film, you might as well throw all seven of them out and go watch Babylon 5.  This is one franchise where DEM invocation is not only permissible, it's appropriate.

[karajorma]

I challenge anyone here to identify a plot hole that exists solely within the context of the TFA script.  Again, I've only seen it twice, but none spring to mind.  The entire basis for criticism of the plot derives from the previous films.  While I would have also preferred they clear some of those items up, it really isn't that important to the story TFA is telling - as Luis pointed out.

I've already pointed to the ridiculous coincidences multiple times.

[Luis Dias]

Coincidences abound in SW from the very beggining. Leia's ship is captured while trying to go to Alderaan, and the droids contanining important info just happen to fall down into Tatoine, mere miles from Luke's uncle who buys them. Luke, Darth Vader's son. "Nothing coincidental to see here, move along". And Ben Kenobi is just another few miles away from that point.

Leia Organa just happens to also be Luke's sister. It's all very natural these circumstances you see. A galaxy with an economy size that is able to build death stars is just filled with brothers and sisters who have meetups like these. Jango Fett, the guy who finds the Millenium Falcon after its cunning disguise as garbage just happens to be the son of the guy who was porsuing Ben Kenobi some 20 years ago.

Ridiculous coincidences are a Star Wars theme. Just have fun with them.

[headdie]

I challenge anyone here to identify a plot hole that exists solely within the context of the TFA script.  Again, I've only seen it twice, but none spring to mind.  The entire basis for criticism of the plot derives from the previous films.  While I would have also preferred they clear some of those items up, it really isn't that important to the story TFA is telling - as Luis pointed out.

I've already pointed to the ridiculous coincidences multiple times.

TBH if leaning on coincidence to heavily is a film's worse aspect then it is way ahead of the curve on the story quality curve than most electronic format entertainment

[karajorma]

I've already said it's a good film. I'm pissed off cause it could easily have been better if it wasn't for the lazy scriptwriting.

Coincidences abound in SW from the very beggining. Leia's ship is captured while trying to go to Alderaan, and the droids contanining important info just happen to fall down into Tatoine, mere miles from Luke's uncle who buys them. Luke, Darth Vader's son. "Nothing coincidental to see here, move along". And Ben Kenobi is just another few miles away from that point.

General Kenobi, years ago you served my father in the Clone Wars. Now he begs you to help him in his struggle against the Empire. I regret that I am unable to present my father's request to you in person, but my ship has fallen under attack and I'm afraid my mission to bring you to Alderaan has failed. I have placed information vital to the survival of the Rebellion into the memory systems of this R2 unit. My father will know how to retrieve it. You must see  this droid safely delivered to him on Alderaan. This is our most desperate hour. Help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi, you're my only hope.

Yeah. It's a enormous ****ing coincidence!

Leia Organa just happens to also be Luke's sister.

You think that it's possible that Leia's father who knows that she is Vader's daughter might have sent her to Obi-wan deliberately? Cause I don't find that to be an enormous stretch at all.

Jango Fett, the guy who finds the Millenium Falcon after its cunning disguise as garbage just happens to be the son of the guy who was porsuing Ben Kenobi some 20 years ago.

I think we all agree that the prequels were badly written. This kind of idiotic shoehorning in of earlier characters is a major part of the reason they were so bad. Plinkett even points out that the best thing about the prequels is that they didn't do this kind of idiocy to Han Solo too.

[Luis Dias]

Yeah you're right about the Leia / Ben Kenobi stuff.

[MP-Ryan]

I challenge anyone here to identify a plot hole that exists solely within the context of the TFA script.  Again, I've only seen it twice, but none spring to mind.  The entire basis for criticism of the plot derives from the previous films.  While I would have also preferred they clear some of those items up, it really isn't that important to the story TFA is telling - as Luis pointed out.

I've already pointed to the ridiculous coincidences multiple times.

1.  Coincidences are not plot "holes."  Plot holes are unacknowledged and unexplained; coincidences are acknowledged and carry minimal explanation.  Coincidences are also acceptable in some circumstances as they do readily occur in real life as well.
2.  Most, if not all, of those coincidences also refer back to the OT.
3.  See point about "The Force" and DEM, above.

[Phantom Hoover]

Rey (and Finn) beating Kylo Ren didn't feel like a triumph, it felt contrived.  There was no sense of accomplishment.  At no point does it feel like the characters earned that victory (or any of their victories).  Everything just felt like it was handed to them.  Rey jumps in the Millennium Falcon and she can fly it well enough to outfly TIE fighters immediately.  She can use the Force effortlessly 20 minutes after she learns she's Force-sensitive.  She beats the film's main antagonist in a lightsaber duel the very first time she picks one up.

It took Luke three movies to beat Darth Vader in a duel.  That scene had weight because of that.  It had weight because the last time he fought Vader, he got his hand served to him on a platter.  And that was after being trained by Yoda and Obi-Wan. 

Forget ~plot holes~, this is the real problem with the film.

[Luis Dias]

She's a tad of a Mary Sue, but she sold it well. Regarding her defeating Kylo Ren, it stands to reason that Kylo is also a newbie regarding the force. His lightsaber is badly constructed, and although he knows a few tricks, it's not ridiculous the notion that he could be defeated by a female noob who perhaps has more natural talent than him.

The real test for Kylo was to confront his father and kill him (mirroring Luke's test), and he couldn't do it quite well. The Sith hologram says he has to complete this guy's training. His rash emotions when someone gives him bad news indicates he doesn't control the Force.

My guess is that both were written as "force newbs", one more natural talented, the other trying too much and in conflict with himself. In the second movie these two will have been trained. And I think Kylo will kick Rey's ass. I think it's a very easy guess, because frankly I don't see in all this story a huge amount of originality. Both the First Order and the Republic are now at open war and both have been dealt heavy blows. A huge investment of the First Order is destroyed, while several Republic planets are gone (Coruscant?). They will try to paint the second movie as "the darker one" (sigh), with the First Order fleet harrassing everyone and invading the Republic's territories all over. As I said, this will also be expressed by Kylo kicking Rey's ass.

In the third movie they will have to rally what's left of the Republic and try to defeat the Order. Rey will try to get Kylo back to the Light. If the writing is bad enough, she will be able to do this and we will realise they are brothers. I hope I'm wrong on that one.

[karajorma]

1.  Coincidences are not plot "holes."  Plot holes are unacknowledged and unexplained; coincidences are acknowledged and carry minimal explanation.  Coincidences are also acceptable in some circumstances as they do readily occur in real life as well.

I've already been over that too. You want to say they aren't plot holes, fine. They're are still far too many of them and they're still proof of the lazy writing that runs throughout the film. If you didn't mind them good for you. But there are a lot of people who hated them.

[Akalabeth Angel]

I challenge anyone here to identify a plot hole that exists solely within the context of the TFA script.  Again, I've only seen it twice, but none spring to mind.

R2D2 activating at the end.
Kylo Ren knowing where to find Rey on both the smuggler world and Starkiller's forest.
The alien monsters capturing Finn when they've killed everyone else on sight.

And no, none of these are "coincidences".

[headdie]

She's a tad of a Mary Sue, but she sold it well. Regarding her defeating Kylo Ren, it stands to reason that Kylo is also a newbie regarding the force. His lightsaber is badly constructed, and although he knows a few tricks, it's not ridiculous the notion that he could be defeated by a female noob who perhaps has more natural talent than him.

The real test for Kylo was to confront his father and kill him (mirroring Luke's test), and he couldn't do it quite well. The Sith hologram says he has to complete this guy's training. His rash emotions when someone gives him bad news indicates he doesn't control the Force.

My guess is that both were written as "force newbs", one more natural talented, the other trying too much and in conflict with himself. In the second movie these two will have been trained. And I think Kylo will kick Rey's ass. I think it's a very easy guess, because frankly I don't see in all this story a huge amount of originality. Both the First Order and the Republic are now at open war and both have been dealt heavy blows. A huge investment of the First Order is destroyed, while several Republic planets are gone (Coruscant?). They will try to paint the second movie as "the darker one" (sigh), with the First Order fleet harrassing everyone and invading the Republic's territories all over. As I said, this will also be expressed by Kylo kicking Rey's ass.

In the third movie they will have to rally what's left of the Republic and try to defeat the Order. Rey will try to get Kylo back to the Light. If the writing is bad enough, she will be able to do this and we will realise they are brothers. I hope I'm wrong on that one.

There is also the fact that Kylo had recently been hit in the leg by a boltcaster which has been shown multiple times to launch stormtroopers at will, so Kylo taking that hit with an outward response along the lines of "bugger, that is going to be a problem" I would suggest is causing him more problem than he is letting on

[Scotty]

Rey (and Finn) beating Kylo Ren didn't feel like a triumph, it felt contrived.  There was no sense of accomplishment.  At no point does it feel like the characters earned that victory (or any of their victories).  Everything just felt like it was handed to them.  Rey jumps in the Millennium Falcon and she can fly it well enough to outfly TIE fighters immediately.  She can use the Force effortlessly 20 minutes after she learns she's Force-sensitive.  She beats the film's main antagonist in a lightsaber duel the very first time she picks one up.

It took Luke three movies to beat Darth Vader in a duel.  That scene had weight because of that.  It had weight because the last time he fought Vader, he got his hand served to him on a platter.  And that was after being trained by Yoda and Obi-Wan. 

Forget ~plot holes~, this is the real problem with the film.

Obligatory reminder that Ren had not five minutes prior been shot in the hip with a Bowcaster, which had immediately obliterated whoever was on the receiving end through the entire movie, to the point of shattering entire plates of armor and sending the target flying twenty feet through the air.  Repeatedly.

EDIT: or I could be beaten severely to the punch.  Oh well.

[Sushi]

Those posts made me do a double-take. Nicely done, people!

[Phantom Hoover]

Rey (and Finn) beating Kylo Ren didn't feel like a triumph, it felt contrived.  There was no sense of accomplishment.  At no point does it feel like the characters earned that victory (or any of their victories).  Everything just felt like it was handed to them.  Rey jumps in the Millennium Falcon and she can fly it well enough to outfly TIE fighters immediately.  She can use the Force effortlessly 20 minutes after she learns she's Force-sensitive.  She beats the film's main antagonist in a lightsaber duel the very first time she picks one up.

It took Luke three movies to beat Darth Vader in a duel.  That scene had weight because of that.  It had weight because the last time he fought Vader, he got his hand served to him on a platter.  And that was after being trained by Yoda and Obi-Wan. 

Forget ~plot holes~, this is the real problem with the film.

Obligatory reminder that Ren had not five minutes prior been shot in the hip with a Bowcaster, which had immediately obliterated whoever was on the receiving end through the entire movie, to the point of shattering entire plates of armor and sending the target flying twenty feet through the air.  Repeatedly.

Well yeah, the film did a decent job of explaining why Kylo lost the fight. That's not the issue. If Chewie had aimed a metre higher and blown his brains out that wouldn't have been a 'plot hole' but it'd have been a terrible narrative move.

[karajorma]

Rey is still somewhat of a Mary-Sue even if you don't count the lightsabre battle. She's certainly not the worst one I've ever seen but it is a little bit hard to buy that she's so good so quickly. Funnily enough though I never really had that much of a problem with that aspect of it.