Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: an0n on November 21, 2003, 08:36:37 am
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.......and thought I'd have a stab at making a campaign.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not going for a sprawling epic like Inferno or anything. Just 20 or so no-mod missions. Using all the default junk to just tell a little story and give me an opportunity to blast some innocent civillians outta the sky.
And I got to thinking: FS2, by all normal measures of coolness, is the best for doing such a thing. But I'm a purist, in that I like the no-nonsense approach of FS1. I can't be bothered with the over-complication and excessive doing-stuff-ness of FRED2, but I was originally planning my little story as a post-Capella kinda thing (despite the fact that, baring a major plot re-write, you never leave Delta Serpentis).
So I'm left with the choice of using FRED2 despite my objections to its 'stuff' and having cool scripted beam-fights between fleets of destroyers, or using FS1, losing the beams and other 'flash', and being able to play it in FS1, which I am VASTLY more fond of.
Being the nice, community-spirited guy I am, I thought I'd give you 'tards the choice.
Choose, my monkeys. Choose.
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wow.....you really are insane....
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go FS2, if you really want to use FS1 stuff, rip some **** from the port. you might as weell use some FS1 ships in some pirate faction, while your at it. actually, use FSO, so you can do some other fun stuff with the new functions, so we can use your camp as a tech demo for FSO.
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I am NOT using FSO.
With FS1, I have no options and therefore won't start going "Oooh, I could add glow-maps" and end up never finishing the damn thing.
If I categorically refuse to use ANY modifications to the default files (except mission and campaign files), it's feasible for me to do it myself.
And there's also the matter that I don't know where my FS2 Disk 2 is. So I'll need at least a week of scouring the house to find it if I'm gonna use that.
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or dl the hotu thing in about 5 hours....
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Use FS2... :p
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Have I mentioned that I hate you all?
*mentally prepares himself for doing hundreds and hundreds of beam-free-all's*
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Global beam-free all tag, mate. Oh, but you aren't using FSO.
:ha:
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Is global beam-free-all a FSO thing or just a FRED2_Open thing that'll work with normal FS2?
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Use FS2[Retail, all the way], and put more stress on action than story.
Your normal FS2 cannot read the 'Global beam-free-all' flag. Everything you save with FRED_open gets unreadable for the retail game. Unless you find a way to reconvert it to normal FS.
once again, I will have to open an argument with diamondgeezer again. The 'Global beam-free-all' flag is only a thing that makes your work more comfortable. You can tell all the ships to use their beams individually. Just make sure that the SEXP run when the ship in question is in the field of engagement(arrived).
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I voted FS2 because
- Flak and AAAf make capital ship attacking harder/more fun.
- Nebula missions allow for greater plotline diversity (In gas giants)
- Planetary BGs allow for greater diversity (setting a mission in orbit of a planet.
- 1024x768
- FRED2 has a lot of useful features that should have been in FS1, but weren't. Turret lock all is an example - FS1 can only do turret lock one by one, which is irritating if you wanna lock up a destroyer.
- Greater ship diversity in FS2, especially for Vasudans. The vasudan "armada" in FS1 is fighters, bombers, Atens, Typhons. The Mentu and Sobek give at least a vague impression that the Vasudans are a real, contributing part of the alliance, with a structured space navy as opposed to funny headed tag alongs.
So yeah - there's more, but well, I can't think of 'em at the moment. Good luck.
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I suppose I could play with the source-code to give FRED2 a button that'd add a beam-free-all sexp for every ship with a #big or #capital or whatever the hell the tag is.
Hmmm......Or I could make a PHP thingy that'd parse the file and add one. Which'd probably be a lot easier.
D'ya reckon it'd do anything bad to the game if every ship had a beam-free-all (fighters and bombers included)?
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Originally posted by Black Wolf
- Flak and AAAf make capital ship attacking harder/more fun.
- Nebula missions allow for greater plotline diversity (In gas giants)
- Planetary BGs allow for greater diversity (setting a mission in orbit of a planet.
- 1024x768
- FRED2 has a lot of useful features that should have been in FS1, but weren't. Turret lock all is an example - FS1 can only do turret lock one by one, which is irritating if you wanna lock up a destroyer.
- Greater ship diversity in FS2, especially for Vasudans. The vasudan "armada" in FS1 is fighters, bombers, Atens, Typhons. The Mentu and Sobek give at least a vague impression that the Vasudans are a real, contributing part of the alliance, with a structured space navy as opposed to funny headed tag alongs.
Maybe I could expand your list:
- SuperCaps
- Big damage flag(realistic, if you like it. Personally, I hate it)
- More ships and technologies.
- Nicer nebula background(+ planets addable = better FEELING)
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Originally posted by Black Wolf
- Flak and AAAf make capital ship attacking harder/more fun.
~-=™! I was intending to keep the player too busy trying not to explode to be able to take down cap-ships. Leaving the big boys to duke it out on their own. !™=-~
- Nebula missions allow for greater plotline diversity (In gas giants)
~-=™! As I said, it'll be based almost entirely in Delta Serpentis. I don't really see the need for nebulas. !™=-~
- Planetary BGs allow for greater diversity (setting a mission in orbit of a planet.
~-=™! Never thought about that. Good point. !™=-~
- 1024x768
~-=™! High-res can kiss my hairy yellow butt. !™=-~
- FRED2 has a lot of useful features that should have been in FS1, but weren't. Turret lock all is an example - FS1 can only do turret lock one by one, which is irritating if you wanna lock up a destroyer.
~-=™! But enough to make it worth it? !™=-~
- Greater ship diversity in FS2, especially for Vasudans. The vasudan "armada" in FS1 is fighters, bombers, Atens, Typhons. The Mentu and Sobek give at least a vague impression that the Vasudans are a real, contributing part of the alliance, with a structured space navy as opposed to funny headed tag alongs.
~-=™! At the moment, the Vasudans are practically non-existent in the story-line as they'll be busy trying not to die and thus not bothered about what's happening in Delta Serpentis. !™=-~ [/B]
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At the moment, the only thing making me more inclined to use FS2 is the planetary backgrounds and MAYBE the beams as they add drama.
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Originally posted by an0n
D'ya reckon it'd do anything bad to the game if every ship had a beam-free-all (fighters and bombers included)?
FRED doesn't seem to mind, and FRED's more picky than FS2.
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what about fun little options as Sathanasses? they ain't pretty, but they blow up pretty damn nice.
Supernova?
prettier bombs?
people that actually play the campaign?
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Yeah, but there ain't been any FS1 campaigns out in years. And it's a shame c'z it's a damn good engine and doesn't deserve to be relegated into obscurity just because more people have FS2 installed.
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Originally posted by an0n
At the moment, the only thing making me more inclined to use FS2 is the planetary backgrounds and MAYBE the beams as they add drama.
What about overwhelming public opinion? :p
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Public opinion can suck my dick.
Bah, I'll use FS2 if you're all gonna whine.
........Hmm. Or I could make it FS1 just to annoy you all.
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Originally posted by an0n
Yeah, but there ain't been any FS1 campaigns out in years. And it's a shame c'z it's a damn good engine and doesn't deserve to be relegated into obscurity just because more people have FS2 installed.
so you use DOS because it's a damn good system and it's a pity that nobody uses it because they have windows/linux?
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Look TA, it's not my fault you can't get FSO runnning. Plenty of n00bs have come through the forum with FSO problems and have had their lives sorted out for them.
I've said it before and I'll say it again - people aren't going to touch a non-open camapign anymore. With that in mind an0n, you'd better off with teh FS1 perhaps...
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.......You moron, Kasperl.
Try pinging someone in Windows.
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i use RH if i do stuff like that, more stable.
and it goes pretty well with a command line in XP, and XP has a deep, utter hate against DOS.
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Originally posted by diamondgeezer
Look TA, it's not my fault you can't get FSO runnning. Plenty of n00bs have come through the forum with FSO problems and have had their lives sorted out for them.
Please quote and make the words bold where I mentioned that my FSO is not running. It is working for me(and older, not HTL version), so you can eat my socks with your suspections.
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All good campaigns need monkeys.
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The most exotic thing this campaign will have will be a Knossos at the Sol node.
So no monkeys.
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You mean no asteroid shaped liek a dancing moose?
TA: I'm sure you've given not-workingness as the reason for your FSO phobia in the past... after all it's just about the only logical one
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I hate you, Shrike.
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Just ****ing with ya. ;)
I changed it to something more appropriate.
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FS3
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Originally posted by diamondgeezer
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TA: I'm sure you've given not-workingness as the reason for your FSO phobia in the past... after all it's just about the only logical one
Don't be over the moon. Not you are the one who convienced me to try to make FSO run.
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Originally posted by diamondgeezer
I've said it before and I'll say it again - people aren't going to touch a non-open camapign anymore.
They will if it has a good story and good missions. Deus Ex Machina is non-open. So is LM3, if you don't count the cutscenes. And how about the BWO demo?
And I voted for FS1. FS1 has a certain atmosphere that can't be replicated in FS2. Plus it hasn't had any campaigns released for it in a while. That'll change with AHTW and FOW, and potentially this campaign; and the more the better, I say.
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Oh suit yourselves. I'm going to stick with FSO. It just tastes better :nod:
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I've decided to add one ship to the game. Which means I'll have to supply ship and weapon tbls with the campaign (as well as make, texture and POF the ****er). So I've begun to wonder, as I said I would, "Why not make a few more changes?".
And incase you're wondering, it's a Sol ship suped-up with Shivan technology. Which makes the war in the campaign make more sense. And it (in theory) will also answer the "Why not just contact Earth using radio?" question. Mwuahaha. Phear my ability to fill main-campaign plot-holes.
Anyway; I've settled on FS2 because everyone will just ***** otherwise.
I'll see about making a FS1-Exclusive campaign depending on how well this one turns out and/or if I ever finish it.
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Originally posted by an0n
I've decided to add one ship to the game
"slippery slope"
I can see this quick campaign growing into some evil monster of a thing :D
FS1 is bobbins. Without beams, friendly cap ships are just a bloody liability.
IMO.:)
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Yup. It's almost certainly gonna explode into an epic.
But I'm gonna cut as many corners as possible. For example, by not making the new ship(s) player-flyable, I don't have to make interface stuff for them.
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Uhh, I voted for monkeys.
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Believe me, I'd have voted for monkies if I could have
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Monkeys are a fine choice. I choose them.
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It doesn't help when I check every box, does it?
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Originally posted by Goober5000
And I voted for FS1. FS1 has a certain atmosphere that can't be replicated in FS2. Plus it hasn't had any campaigns released for it in a while. That'll change with AHTW and FOW, and potentially this campaign; and the more the better, I say.
:nod: :nod: :nod:
I applaud you an0n, for actually considering FS1. :yes:
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FS2. The best thing about FS1 was the atmosphere, but that was all to do with the writing and very little to do with the engine, IMHO.
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Then playing the Port should make no difference. Yet it does. :p Maybe the interface art helped - it was slightly less polished and more "frontier", if that makes sense. And I prefer the old command briefing format. :ha:
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Yeah, FS1 had that kinda "Cramped aboard the Galatae" feel to all the interface stuff.
And the old briefing stuff had that kinda clip-board feel to it, which made it seem more real.
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not to mention those Vasudan translator voices.
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With a campaign, I would suggest going for a good amount of action, but a good story. When you have a good storyline, action can help to progress through the missions.
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Boredom + MAX + PS = .................
(http://www.penguinbomb.com/images/achilles.jpg)
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Oo... handy
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Okay, I've come to the conclusion that I cannot texture to save my life. So I'm going back to my original idea of a no-mod campaign.
I MIGHT trick some people into doing a bit of voice-acting, but that's it.
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Can I have that fighter then? Pwetty pwease?
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Sure. It's hereby up for grabs.
Clicky Clicky (http://www.penguinbomb.com/misc/solshiv.max)
*takes no responsibility for the poor geometry and blames it all on MAX3's stupid habit of making things non-symetrical*
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You weren't kidding..
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..........WTF?
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3ds file: Clicky (http://www.penguinbomb.com/misc/solshiv.3ds)
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I say FS2, just to annoy you ... and i dont have FS1
I actually look forward to playing this already :D
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Suck-up.
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.....yeah, but i still want to play it, if its anything like your writing style, it should be pretty brutal and fun to play
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Originally posted by an0n
3ds file: Clicky (http://www.penguinbomb.com/misc/solshiv.3ds)
Much better.
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I think MAX4 doesn't like the MAX3 Optimize modifier.
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GAH!
CRAP! TURD! ASS! BUTT! GIMP! FAG!!!!
The goddamn HOTU version of FS2 won't patch. So I can't put nodes in missions with FRED2.
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Use FRED2_open and save in retail FS2 format.
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Have I mentioned lately that I love you?
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Uhh... no.
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Have I also mentioned that aside from completely ignoring any changes I make to the background, refusing the put ships in the mission and crashing after 10 minutes, FRED2_Open is a total piece of crap?
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Nope. Bugzilla it.
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:wtf: you don't own FS2? :wtf:
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neither do I, even after numerous attempts to buy it.
and he said he lost his disks.
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Not all my disks.
Of the 7 FS disks I own (2-FS1, 3-FS2, 1 Patches+Docs, 1 Illegal copy of FS1), I can account for 6 of them. The one I am lacking, however, is FS2 Disk 2.
****ing bastards.
Oh, and: http://nodewar.penguinbomb.com/deltablues
EDIT: Delta Blues Forum (http://nodewar.penguinbomb.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=114) over on NW.
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I needs a favour. I needs this texturising with semi-Orion, semi-Lucifer textures:
(http://www.penguinbomb.com/images/galleon.jpg) (http://www.penguinbomb.com/misc/galleon.3ds)
It's a Terran-Shivan hybrid and the big spikey things need to look somewhat half-done and AWACS-ish as they're supposed to be subspace field thingies that were just slapped on at the last minute.
Guess whose ass this is going to be kicking.......
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Edit: Ignore me...
Edit 2: Is it illegal to share ISO's? I'd have no problem making an ISO of FS disk 2 and putting it up for him...
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Well seen as the whole crappy, unpatchable version of FS2 is up on HOTU, I'm guessing no-one would put up much of a protest.
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k, then... hold on a bit...
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The HOTU version, although it states differently, is already patched.
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No it ****en isn't. It reads and works as unpatched, version 1.00.
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Hey, you know what you should do an0n - you know that Elysium with Jeri Ryan on it? Put nekkid birds on all your ships :nod:
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Y'know, that's not a bad idea.
But all this is just adding more and more work for me to do.
If someone does [good] textures for the Galleon, I'll give optional 'Nekkid Birds' maps for all the ships.
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Make one with Carter off SG-1
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Fine, it'll be a 'Nekkid Sci-Fi Birds' optional map-pack.
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I think this'll be my favorite camp.
And an0n, you really should model more. Apparently you have some skill at it. :yes:
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i've compared the content, i have both versions. It's the patched one. It just keeps claiming it's V1.0.
I dont know about the FRED version, though.
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I just luck-out once in a while.
Usually when I set out to model something for FS, it ends up at 5000 faces and, being how I am, I give up and delete it rather than defile it by removing parts of my masterpiece.
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Originally posted by Lightspeed
i've compared the content, i have both versions. It's the patched one. It just keeps claiming it's V1.0.
I dont know about the FRED version, though.
Well I can't place nodes, just like on an unpatched version. But I dunno if that's actually something to do with the exe patching or due to alterations the updater make to the vp files.
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5000 polies is nothing now... though.
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I refuse to contribute in any way to the furtherment of the SCP until they start making FS2 better, faster and stronger instead of just padding it out with crap no-one will ever use.
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:wtf:
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lessee, it is faster, it can take more poly's, it has glowmaps, animated stuff, and it loks about 10 times as good as the original.
you were saying?
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I was saying that they're concentrating on sequins instead of fabric.
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i can' t make sense of that phrase, it's probably my crappy english.
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Sequins are the sparkly thingies on dresses.
Fabric is what dresses are made of.
The SCP is concentrating too much on putting sparkly bits on instead of on making the fabric stronger and softer.
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well, HT&L was like completely re-weaving the dress, and the fabric is made stronger every time a little bug is squashed, which has happened a lot.
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Well... weren't you saying earlier about not being able to use a 5000 poly fighter?
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When half the features implimented by the SCP don't crash the game, then I'll start contributing to FSO.
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Originally posted by diamondgeezer
Hey, you know what you should do an0n - you know that Elysium with Jeri Ryan on it? Put nekkid birds on all your ships :nod:
Hey, DG - why do you think some of the Reci fighters have big blank spaces on the wings?
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McDonalds sponsorship?
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It's up.
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I know. I've been sat watching the file-size steadily increase and then stop.
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Heh. I figured as much. But I thought I'd announce it. Good luck with it. If there's a problem, direct all fury at Roxio.com
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Originally posted by an0n
I refuse to contribute in any way to the furtherment of the SCP until they start making FS2 better, faster and stronger instead of just padding it out with crap no-one will ever use.
:nod: :nod: :nod:
hear hear...
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Works fine here. Well, pretty much. In anycase, but a fatter computer, b1zotches.
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Snipes, how did you manage to get a 776mb iso from a 650mb FS2 CD?
The ISO is ****ed beyond belief.
Aside from the obvious size thing, whenever I try to burn it (either directly from the ISO or by extracting it and screwing around with it first), it get's about 15% into the simulation burn and just dies.
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Err... Beats the crap out of me... It's Roxio. I could try to get Nero and use that, if it'll work...
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What would you have the SCP work on an0n?
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Normal ****. Like making map-loading more efficient. And just tweaking the way things are rendered to give them a more rugged, realistic look.
Oh and the AI. The AI was possibly the biggest pile of crap in all the code and they've completely ignored it.
Basically, they should've made retail FS2 functions perfect before tacking extra **** on.
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ah, yes. AI. Apparently they refuse to touch it, although I don't really bame them. Not that it shouldn't be fixed.
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What really annoys me though is how they're all "Whee, look, we've got texture-based model-surface distortions so you can set an animated smiley as a texture and it'll pop up 3m from the wing of your fighter, and it'll be animated and it'll glow and sometimes even make laughing sounds as you fly past", but they won't do simple things like stopping the game screeching when you hold down too many buttons during complex maneuvers.
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Isn't that more or an OS thing?
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Do I care?
It's a problem and even if it is an OS thing, it should've been looked into. But no, they're too busy trying to get kudos for adding features so complex and unstable that no-one will ever use them.