Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Turambar on August 03, 2011, 08:32:39 am
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http://twitter.com/#!/therealcliffyb/status/98628100472045568 (http://twitter.com/#!/therealcliffyb/status/98628100472045568)
The space dogfight shooter genre is long overdue for a comeback.
-Cliff Bleszinski
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Great to hear him mentioning that! I'm wondering, if more people as well known as Cliff Bleszinski will continue to put this out, what this may bring. At the least goodwill and recognition, a seed for the future.
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It was only a matter of time. :D
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I don't know WHO this guy is...
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Google's a good place to start.
But if you don't want to, he's one of the lead guys at Epic and the person behind the UT/Gears of War series.
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He famously ranted at the secondhand games market denying him profits.
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I can't wait to see how they implement a cover system for a space sim. :)
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I can't wait to see how they implement a cover system for a space sim. :)
*imagines the cover glue applied to a fighter and destroyer*
:shaking:
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Linear cover shooter space sim! Grapple onto the surface of an asteroid with invisible walls to keep you from moving in other directions! Fly on the surface of the massive evil alien space ship and bounce into invisible walls keeping you away from certain areas!
Asteroid fields? Just like Star Wars, but they move at a certain set minimum speed to keep you going forward and get denser as you move left or right.
Third dimension? Too confusing, so all enemies will spawn dead ahead and you move dead ahead!
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Let's be honest, FPS level design these days is awfully linear and basic.
A good space sim could be done with a console controller (basic controls like WC1, not like the later WC games, X-Wing, for FreeSpace) but considering the arcade push... *shrug* I doubt we'll see something in that vein.
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Unfortunately cliffy is a twat of the first order
I hope he doesnt murder the genre
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How do you murder a corpse? Honestly, the absolute worst outcome is nothing gained, nothing lost.
In fact, the absolute worst outcome is nothing lost, support for the genre gained. What's the phrase? "There's no such thing as bad publicity?"
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How do you murder a corpse?
Necrophilia, anyone? You may not be able to murder a corpse, but you can sure bugger it into greenish-grey goop.
And even the bloody goop would have a cover system.
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If it would result in something that bad, I don't see how that could affect HLP or Freespace in any way, shape or form.
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Let's be honest, FPS level design these days is awfully linear and basic.
And this in contrast to what golden era of liberty and complexity?
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So, what is that guy really up to?
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tweeting, apparently.
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Let's be honest, FPS level design these days is awfully linear and basic.
And this in contrast to what golden era of liberty and complexity?
I dunno, apparently there were at one point FPSes at one point that allowed you to legitimately move in more than one direction
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Ah I see.
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Wolfenstein?
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Ah I see.
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Wolfenstein?
To be honest, the Doom-era games and even up to Duke3D there was still a fair bit of options about how to approach things. Deus Ex was the peak of it, but after that...pretty much nothing.
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Half Life ruined us all.
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Quake II required backtracking to previous levels in order to complete new objectives.
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Ah, ok. So Q2 had more than one direction.
Didn't prevent it to be utterly boring.
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What. Quake II was and still is fun compared to just about every new release that pops up.
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Hm. No. And I was a huge fan of Q2 don't get me wrong. Specially the mp with the hook thing.
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I DARE cliffy to make a 3D freeflight space shooter, becuase something is better than nothing, halo reach's space level was fun and no one hated it hugely, as far as I know, in fact wanting more like that.
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Wolf3D did allow you to go in more than one direction. It also had secret doors, which was badass. I probably have more gametime on Wolf3D than on CoD4.
(but that probably says more about me than Wolf3D (hey that rhymes))
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Hm. No. And I was a huge fan of Q2 don't get me wrong. Specially the mp with the hook thing.
quake 2 was awesome in its day. before i got my copy of q2, my game was still descent 2. this was way back in '97. quake 2 also had good multi and coop mode. this was before fps developers decided to split fpses off into standalone single and multiplayer games, a practice i want to see dead. really the only game (that ive played) that seemed to push the genre is prey. awesome gravity effects, which effectively allowed the game to make better use of vertical space. gameplay was still linear for the most part. quake 4 was also pretty awesome, but it was kinda the same old fps.
frankly i like the time tested linear fps over attempts at games where you have less than linear gameplay. non linearity is just not what i expect of an fps game. fps games revolve around world geometry (maps) that take a lot of effort to create, which limits the length of the game. now if you applied rpg concepts to fps games, where you have to level up to advance in the game, and you had a huge number of maps linked up (or megamaps), with areas that require certain skill levels to survive. that would be a game worth playing. but to the best of my knoledge no such game exists.
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frankly i like the time tested linear fps over attempts at games where you have less than linear gameplay. non linearity is just not what i expect of an fps game. fps games revolve around world geometry (maps) that take a lot of effort to create, which limits the length of the game. now if you applied rpg concepts to fps games, where you have to level up to advance in the game, and you had a huge number of maps linked up (or megamaps), with areas that require certain skill levels to survive. that would be a game worth playing. but to the best of my knoledge no such game exists.
Take away the skills bit, and replace it with various items, and you've got S.T.A.L.K.E.R.
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ArmA (and it's predecessor, Operation: Flashpoint) series can be quite nonlineral, though they're not as open-ended as RPGs, they still allow you a lot of ways of tackling a particular problem. Of course, it depends on a mission, if you're not a squad leader, it becomes more lineral, and if you're in high command, you have more freedom. Of course, not everybody likes tactical FPSes, and ArmA is pretty much the extreme form of this genre, being essentially a tactical simulator.
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i cant say i like tactical fpses at all. i tried arma, but i never really got very far before i quit and loaded up doom.
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I liked SOCOM: US Navy SEALs for PSP. I'd like to see more games of that kind around.
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I never played it, but you may want to take a look at (besides ArmA) Tom Clancy's Rainbow 6 (slightly less realistic than ArmA, and focused on special forces) or Ghost Recon.
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In Operation Flashpoint, I particularly liked when the US forces had to evacuate off the island, and your current mission could be failed, having to hide behind enemy lines with the last evacuations in progress. You could of course also succeed the mission normally and evacuate.
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I never played it, but you may want to take a look at (besides ArmA) Tom Clancy's Rainbow 6 (slightly less realistic than ArmA, and focused on special forces) or Ghost Recon.
i had the first 2 games in the rainbow 6 series. didnt much like either one of them. loading times were just far longer than other, better looking games that i played at the time, and i eventually lost my patience with them.
also i think im gonna move this to gaming. it just seems odd to have it here.
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I posted this in another thread, and then I thought of this one. I think V should just start a new space combat IP. I think there should never be an FS3, tbh, I think the lack of a sequel with such an open-ended finish to the FS series is part of what's kept it alive and what adds to it's mystique.
I personally think V should start a new IP and make it just as moddable as FS.
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As I said in other thread, it'd be also nice if the new title wasn't FS3, but at least hinted at being in the same timeline.
Also, I agree about moddablity, though it shouldn't be as complicated as ArmA (you have to know HTML just to make your own missions) or most other modern games I looked into. Basic FS modding was easy to learn, with LUA being only a "bonus" and not a requirement (as it is in HW2 or ArmA).
In Operation Flashpoint, I particularly liked when the US forces had to evacuate off the island, and your current mission could be failed, having to hide behind enemy lines with the last evacuations in progress. You could of course also succeed the mission normally and evacuate.
That was indeed a good idea, though the mission (CWR2 remake of the infamous "After Montignac") is giving me a headache right now. :) It's much harder than previous ones, not to mention I found OFP more difficult than ArmAII (to which I'm used).
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What's the phrase? "There's no such thing as bad publicity?"
Really I'm sure Cliffy is regretting this pic :D
(http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/2214/cliffyb.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/196/cliffyb.jpg/)
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As I said in other thread, it'd be also nice if the new title wasn't FS3, but at least hinted at being in the same timeline.
Also, I agree about moddablity, though it shouldn't be as complicated as ArmA (you have to know HTML just to make your own missions) or most other modern games I looked into. Basic FS modding was easy to learn, with LUA being only a "bonus" and not a requirement (as it is in HW2 or ArmA).
you kids are all spoiled. lua is a very easy language to get started with. i remember learning quake c back in '98. mapping was about the only thing you could do without coding expertise. if you wanted to add models to the game, you had to use quake c, if you wanted to change the gameplay, you had to learn quake c. in fact you couldnt do anything cool without some quake c. new maps get old after awhile. at the time there were a ****ton of tutorials on how to do everything from new models and animations to homing missiles to radar whatever. it was hard to use, you could only use 3 datatypes, you didnt have structs, you could permanently break the executable by changing anything above a certain comment in one of the code files. i mean seriously. lua is simple, doesnt involve learning a lot of obscure operators like in c, and it wont make you need to re-download the game engine. we certainly couldnt do a lot by editing plain englsh tables. a lot of modern games even have confusing data files (see freelancer) to edit. descent (the oldest game ive modded) used something similar to tables but they were in a binary format to save space, and you needed special tools to edit those. and those tools blocked most of the edits to prevent cheating. this is long before games implemented anti cheating code. so enjoy your tables and your sexps, you spoiled brats! and dont learn lua! even though it can implement 90% of the feature requests that graze the scp board given enough dev time.
:hopping: